Chickens

Hello All,

This is my first post so please bear with me.

I have almost a 2 acre lot with a 1700 sq/ft house. When I purchased the home 4 years ago it came with 3 out buildings. One had a small leen-to hot house attached to it (corrigated fiberglass). I used the hot house as a chicken coop for 25 chickens for 2 years. I fenced in a 30'x15' yard for the chickens to run in. The soil in the chicken yard is sandy well draining soil. After 2 years the hens stop laying and I got rid of them. I tore down the fence and the coop in the spring. Just before fall I tilled and planted a fall garden in the yard. WOW. I had the most beutifull large broccoli heads I have ever seen. I showed my neighbor a head of broccoli and he said it was the largest he had seen. He also asked what it tasted like. Knowing what direction he was going in, I responded (Ranch dressing). Collards, Mustards, and all the rest of the fall greens did just as well.

I have a 30'x30' garden in the back portion of the yard. Unfortunately, this soil is not as good as the one by the old chicken coop. 8" down is deep grey clay. I am very carful tilling this area in hopes not to bring up the clay. After working it for 4 years I have a lot of composting activity. Impressive topsoil, but underneath lies the dreaded clay. After tilling a neighbor said, "geez, if you throw a bolt in it, it will grow a Chevy. Drainage is the main issue with the larger back garden. When it rains a lot it floods. One year I had to go out and create a drainage ditch to get rid of the water.

I was thinking about the success of the chickens. If I built a coop in the middle edge section of the larger garden and used the garden as a yard for the chickens but sectioned it off in half. In other words, the chickens will have half the garden one year, and the other half the other. I could fence in the garden in 2 sections. The coop will have 2 doors. If you've ever had chickens you know they will let nothing grow in their yard. They scratch and peck at everything and the yard turns out to be nothing but dirt. After getting rid of the chickens in the small garden it took about 4 months for any weeds to appear. Kewl. After harvesting my fall crop in the large garden I will then transfer the chickens to the other side. This gives the new garden the whole winter to settle down. I may have to lime but other than that it should be ready for spring planting.

I know I'm rambling but please bear with me and correct me if I'm wrong. Plants need 11 essential elements to succeed. Chicken manure provides all 11. Anyway that's what I have read. How will this help with the grey clay under my topsoil?

Any help will be investigated, monitored, scanned for terrorist threats, but most importantly appreciated.

Sounds like a plan. I am not familiar with grey clay, but or red or yellow just till up an inch or so a year, until your topsoil is as deep as you want. Clay holds nutrients as well as water, so usually pulling a little of it back into play is beneficial. Just not too much at once. Making deeper topsoil will also help with the drainage problem. Altho with the drought here I wish I had a drainage problem.

The chicken's are not only enriching the area with their droppings but they are actually helping condition the soil with their scratching. If you don't have compost piles/bins, you might want to seriously consider building some. Adding layers of compost to the grey clay area should help build the level of soil and enrich it.

Breaking up a clay bed/soil is really hard work and if you have a huge garden, the advice before as regards to the chickens working the soil for you is correct, as they scratch about, they are really just gardening for you, they bring some soil to the surface and the other good top soil gets mixed with the bad soil, as for stop laying, they were either too old, or they had depleted all the insects, worms etc after 2 years and maybe you should have fenced them into another area till the old run got rejuvenated, I know when my late father hit clay in a large area, he dug it or tilled it in the winter time, scattered some garden lime on the top and left the large lumps of clay on the top without breaking them up, the frost, wind and rain took the lime down into the clay and this helped to break it up a bit, for the veg beds, he would double dig the beds, that is, he would take the wheel barrow, dig down 2 spades deep and put it into the barrow, barrow this away and store it out of your way, add a good amount of animal manure to the bottom of the trench you took the soil from, newspaper grit or anything that would rot down, then the next line or digging was placed into the first trench, add more manure and do the same again till you have reached the last bit/trench, you are left with an empty trench, so you then fill this up with the soil you removed and stored, you wont have the very best soil that year, but each year you add more compost/manure, you get better soil each time till you have the best, richest and better draining soil around, it holds moisture, but also drains as well, unlike clay soil does, as you hoe and fork over the beds as you remove any weeds etc, you are helping to break up the clay into smaller more crumbly soil that all veg like. By all means, get some more chickens, they help keep the insects away be eating them, the straw and stuff for bedding goes into the garden as manure after it has rotted and the next year, you just move the chicken run to a new area, it takes a few years to really get the clay soil good, but you will reap the benefits, you will always be able to grow certain veg each year, but as your soil conditions improve, you will have a healthy, vast range of veg growing in soil you never thought possible, good luck, just do a bed at a time till you get used to all the work and caring for the beds. WeeNel.

Thanks for all the advice. I will start a compost bin soon. I have never done one. Just looking around the yard, this is what I see.

1. Lots of leaves...hardwood.
2. lots of pine needles.
3. A 3 year old bail of hay.
4. I have to mow the lawn 1 more time.....Grass clippings.
5. Some dead weeds and grass that grew tall and now look like straw.
6. A pile of old newspapers.

I have enough lumber to build a side by side two bin three walled composting station. Umm, now what do I do?

Thanks,
JB

BTW, the chickens just got old and stopped laying.

This message was edited Nov 30, 2007 12:00 PM

Mix it all up in the bin and let it cook!

Good girl, your own compost is the best friend you can have, you can throw anything onto the compost heap so long as it is not MAN made, all you kitchen scraps, newspaper is best torn up or shredded, the straw is great as it will add heat and air to the heap and you need that for the compost to break down, just dont add thick layers of any one thing, like the straw, add that one layer then some garden waste (no seed-heads or roots of perennial weeds or the heat will help those to germinate and you will end up laying them back onto your garden when you use your compost, dont add any cooked food either as it could attract vermin etc, I add the fluff from my tumble drier and empty the carpet hoover bag into it too, egg shells crushed, seaweed if you can get it, old sweaters cut up if they are pure wool, there is no end to what you can add so long as you dont add too much in thick layer, your lawn cutting are good to but maybe between a layer of straw and newspaper as they can cause a mushy mess if too much added and nothing in between to get air into the heap, if it helps, add an old carpet or bed throw over the top to keep rain out and it will help the heap to get hot faster than an open one, but in your zone, maybe that wont be a problem, if the heap gets too dry, water can of water over it will help to moisten it down and speed up the proses. good luck, you will become obsessed with your compost heap as I did with my first one many years ago. WeeNel.

WeeNel, we gonna have them composting police after both of us again for corrupting these sweet innocent younguns........LOL

This message was edited Nov 30, 2007 8:32 PM

Well Doc, my plee will be, "that's a dirty, rotten, heap of trash " these compost cops dont frighten me one bit, just a habit that there is no cure for, everything must be composted or there ain't no living with me, Ha Ha Ha. off to bed now, see you at the composter tomorrow. Weenel.

Don't let that gray clay be your enemy. It was once under the sea. It is rich in trace minerals of which there are at least sixty to seventy known. These trace minerals are often a major oversight. Sometimes the addition of trace minerals is all that is missing to have excellent soil. You absolutely need a basic soil test with the organic content measured. You need a PH of about 6.5 and up to 15% organic content. You are likely working with two to three percent organic content.

A good two to four inch layer of animal manure, additions of leaves, and a fall cover crop good in your area will do wonders.

Moving your birds around is fine but you are missing several of the key needs.

Thanks docgipe,

The fall before last a neighbor gave me a pickup truck load of horse and donkey manure. I promply spread it out and let it overwinter. That spring I tilled it in and planted the garden. Weeds took over to the point it was no fun and I lost the whole crop. Remember the garden is 30'x30' so this was only a smattering, not 2 to 4 inches deep.

I just joined DG and have not been able to tear myself away since. The obvious mistake was not composting this wonderful gift prior to spreading it in the garden. Had I done that the heat generated would have killed most of the weed seeds and created a wonderful compost. Oh, where was DG when I needed it. Last fall I refused to take anymore manure. Oh, brother, another mistake.

Today I tore myself away from the comp. and went out in the garden. A week ago I dug up some potatoes. The shovelings were still intact as grey clumps. I bent down and grabbed a clump and broke it in my hands to get the feel of things. By now you know I'm hooked. Low and behold, although grey, they broke up quite easily and the soil has a rich look and feel to it.

As you saw in my previous post I still have to mow the lawn one more time. I have an old mower with a grass catcher that hasn't been used for years. I also have a DR chipper/vac that hasn't been used in years. Neither one runs right now so I will get to work on both. My grass is about 2 inches long with leaves laying on top. Not smothering, I can still see the grass between the leaves. Oh, things don't get better than this. As I mow the lawn I will also collect the leaves at the same time hopefully in the right proportions. I also have newspapers and pine needles and hey to layer with. Not to mention some coffee grinds and a big bag of 10-10-10 fertilizer, although I don't think I'll need that.

I am interested in the lasagna aproach this year as I hardly have enough time to build a compost bin. I would much rather lay all this to compost directly on top of the garden if that's what lasagna means. I still haven't had time to look up this lasagna thing. A link to it would be helpfull because being new here I find myself trying to find something and end up going off on a tangent because everything is so interesting....LOL.

Thanks for everything.
JB

P.S. BTW. I hate to burst any bubble here but I'm a guy not a girl. I'm not sure where Weenel got a girl from Johnnybegood. Let the record stand.

That's fine. The information you are seeking is only words to describe layered mulch which will hold down weeds and slowly go through the compost and worm communities bodys until it becomes good soil. There is no special sequence although various writers would like to feel important saying that there is. It is really nothing more than using whatever you have as a permanent mulch. If you care to take the time you can lay in whole sections of newspaper first and cover with the mulch of the day. I work somewhere mixed between regular tilling and hoeing into permanent mulch from June 15th. to the end of the season. I use finished compost and finished compost aerobic tea as I have and when I have it ready to become part of the layers. I only use horse manure because it is free and available. Our dairy farms are few and far between. Sometimes I use mushroom compost too. I do like to mix it up which is the principle of most layered systems.

I get weed too but I just hoe or throw on some more mulch to cover them and smother them.

Oh...I wanted to say, "throw away the 10-10-10". It will stunt if not kill the very biological content of your patch that you need to work on your organic additions in an effort to build better soil. In fifty years of gardening I have never used manufactured chemical fertilizer.

You are right....you really do not need it. There is no biology in that bag and nothing that will promote a healthy soil. NOTHING!!!

Your doing sheet composting, Johnny. It's all good, but docgipe is right, lose the 10-10-10 dude. You don't need it and the worms don't like it. Wet the newspapers before you cover them they'll break down faster. You can also dig in any kitchen scraps, egg shells, coffee grounds, veggie peelings into that ground as well. Just like regular composting but not in a pile. Good job!

Hi Tucsonjill, yes you can, I add anything to my compost bins, so long as it ain't man made like polythene's, plastics or anything like that, in spring, I hang up the fluff from the dryer for the birds to take as nesting material, but once they have built the nests, it goes in the drier the rest of the year, sometimes if something has not quite rotted down when I use the compost, I just chuck it back into the bins and it will rot down even more, things like rose pruning, thick veg stalks from cabbages etc, need to be chopped up a bit in the kitchen before they go in the bin, but banana skins will rot down great, you will soon get used to all the things you can add, yogurt cartons make great little seedling pots etc, you will find a use for most things once you really get into the recycle mode. Good Luck. WeeNel.

Most food processing plants have waste that is free for the asking. I can get pea hulls by the truck load when they are in season.

In our area peanut roasters have peanut hulls. This is good stuff!

Barbers and hair dressers have hair. It decomposes very slowly but is good stuff.

Fresh fish markets have wonderfull waste.

Soy bean hulls are real good.

Llamas and packies are neat. They pile their poop in piles. Easy to shovel up a bucket full.

Most of us do not need truck loads. A five gallon bucket full of any different organic matter will certainly improve your workings. I find it easier to get five gallons in most instances.

WeeNel you mentioned old wool sweaters, what about cotton? Thats natural so it should work too, right?

I want to see one of those WeeNel fleece blankets! If we got them here, they're well hidden.

Hi again Doc, I dont think it is called fleece in USA, but it is a white spun fabric, sold here by the metre or in a bag already cut to some size, it is as light as a feather, dont stop the light, rain etc from getting through to your soil so you can water through it, it protects from wind, sun scorch, and insects as well as being able to protect from SHORT frosts that would otherwise kill off the foliage of some plants, I just lay it over my bed or veg rows and lay a few stones etc along the edge to hold in place and loosen it to allow for the plants to grow, keep loosening it as they get taller, it is a life saver for my veg, especially cabbage family when the white butterflies are on the go as they lay their eggs on these plants as a Host then munch their way through everything in sight, I have seen this stuff for sale in USA in the DIY dept for garden sundries etc, maybe someone like Ecrane can give you the name if she hits this thread or Farmerdill could be able to tell you the name. good luck. WeeNel.

Just hit the thread asking for something to cover the crops to stop them getting eaten and someone has mentioned a row cover or something like that, so there's a start. WeeNel.

Hi Chickenrancher, sorry i forget to mention the cotton, I would say shred it up into rags and try it out, if it dont compost then toss it back in again for a longer while, it is really hard to get any cotton that has NOT been treated either by a coating for easy ironing or for longer lasting use, so personally I have never used it, but I have torn old sheets into long bandage strips and used them as ties for shrubs or climbers, but because there is no give in it, you have to learn to loosen the ties every so often or the ties will become too tight and the plants will be strangled as the mature, they are good for say one season only tying to supports. hope this helps you out some. WeeNel.

This row cover sounds to me to be similar to ReMay on our markets. However I believe our ReMay is a synthetic fabric. I definately know the material I use is synthetic.

I was probably the one with the row cover. Same kind of method, just different materials. I like the row covers because they're very easy to use and light weight. When we're done, I just roll them up tight and store in my shed.