Best way to grow herbs

I'm interested in starting my own herb garden. I've tried initially with two herbs, thyme and coriander. My thyme plant I bought and it managed ok for the first 9 months - it made it through winter but now it has died. The coriander seems to be growing extremely slowly I may not even get enough to harvest and leaves at all.

So far this year it has been extremely wet and cool in the north of England. I just wonder if these herbs are more for sheltered or indoors growth. What's the best way to go about it.

Thanks

Hi Lil-Elvis,

I grow Cilantro every year which is the same herb as Coriander when one uses it at the green stage for leaves in culinary use (i.e. snipping the leaves to add to various ethnic dishes). My understanding is that Coriander is merely the name given to the seeds of this plant when it is fully mature, literally "gone to seed", and dried or prepared for use as a spice.

Our Cilantro grows outdoors, right in the garden, not indoors or in pots. We direct seed it in the garden as I am told (not sure this is true) that it does not transplant well. Initially I had a tough time growing Cilantro, but I realized it has a long germination phase. One must wait patiently for a couple of weeks, during which the seed bed needs to be moist, until little green plants emerge. We then thin them out and they continue to grow. We (my wife and I) do Cilantro in succession plantings, i.e. start a new batch every three weeks or so throughout the summer. At the moment we have a batch of Cilantro about 1 foot tall that we snip regularly and use for cooking. The next batch is about an inch tall, having just emerged a few days ago, the third batch is still just a bare patch in the garden which we water a bit each day knowing they will emerge eventually. For Cilantro, the problem is when it begins to go to seed (good news for you as a Coriander grower, not good for me as a Cilantro lover).

I'm not sure about the impact of excessive rain. Cilantro does tend to grow even in cooler weather so I don't think that is the problem. Good luck and I hope your plants mature to the appropriate stage for Coriander!!

By the way, I should add that if you like it as an herb you might try Basil as well. A good standard variety like "Sweet Genovese" (available from many seed suppliers) tends to do well, both indoors and out, and is often available for transplanting from a garden center. Basil is a sun lover so if you grow it indoors put it in a south facing window or someplace where it gets light and warmth.

This message was edited Jul 3, 2007 6:58 AM

Most herbs like sun and also like it a little on the drier side, so if you've had a lot of days of clouds and rain that could be why it's sulking. If you have the right conditions, you should be able to grow these in the garden, but if you're having trouble you can grow them indoors too, many people have little herb gardens in their kitchen window so they can snip off a leaf or two while they're cooking. Just make sure it's a nice bright window.

i love cilantro and look for it --never finding it however--now i think i know why--sounds like it is better to start with seed--i only have a little room left in my herb area --might try a pot --i like making salsa with lots of cilantro--it smells wonderful too--my daughter lives in virginia/i am in texas--her herb pots all over her porch do great--i never do as well with mine even tho i have the long growing season, lots of heat and sun etc---so i might start doing more in pots------my daughter wonders why her veggie plants seem to have stunted vegetables--her example was a green pepper that looks fine but is really small and doesn't seem to be growing any bigger--the plant looks great/the vegetables look great but stunted growth i guess--any help with that problem?

Linda--it might be better to start a new thread with the question about your daughter's veggies, I'm not sure if we've answered lil_elvis's question well enough yet and it gets confusing to be talking about two different questions at the same time. When you start that thread too if you could tell us a little more about how she's growing it (garden or pot, sun/shade, how much watering, fertilizing, etc) that would be really helpful. There's also a Beginner Vegetables forum, so you could try posting there too.

Yes, grow the coriander/cilantro from seed. As mentioned they will take about two weeks to germinate. But then , from my experience, they don't grow very fast. Most of mine seemed to have stunted. I will have to move them indoors I suppose. The wife doesn't like stuff indoors, maybe a small shelter/greenhouse could work also?

As well I've no idea why my thyme plant died. I went well last year. I covered it for winter (wife didn't want it inside) and it still did well . Then suddenly it just died. Could it have caught something, maybe a fungus? I bought as a live herb from a supermarket, I didn't grow it from seed.

My sweet basil is doing ok outside, but the bugs are really getting on it. Will regular bug spray - the kind I use on my roses - work ok?

Yes - start another thread on the veggie Q and I may have some input.

Thanks.

Good morning, Lil Elvis, from across the "pond":

I should have figured you were already growing Basil. That's terrific, but I'm sorry to hear about the bug problems. There are a lot of "bug experts" on this forum (I'm not one of them, per se) and I imagine they can provide more insight for you if you can give a little more description of what's happening (e.g. are they chewing holes in the leaves? have you actually seen them on the plants, and if so, what do they look like? etc).

How frustrating about the Cilantro, when you've patiently waited for it to germinate and then it goes funky on you. Again, more description might help. When you say "stunted" do you mean they are not growing as tall as you expected? Are they discolored (e.g. yellowish instead of emerald green?) Our Cilantro (a standard "garden variety" from one of our favorite seed suppliers) never gets taller than about 12-18 inches and doesn't have a long life span (it is really at its "prime" for about a week to ten days, then begins to bolt) so that is why we do succession plantings so another batch is always on the way up to take over for the current batch. When our Cilantro begins to "bolt" it goes from the traditional clover-type leaves to wispy, fern-like upper growth, and then ultimately to a flower stage (although we rarely leave it in the ground that long, as we pull it and put in another batch of something in the same space at that point).

Hopefully others will chime in and provide more feedback for you. Hang in there, since I think fresh herbs are one of nature's true delights!!

Cheers,
BDale

Don't know why your coriander/cilantro isn't going, but I will say that I have successfully transplanted it. It's easier to get it to germinate in the paks and I just take the whole thing while it is still rather small (as soon as true leaves appear) and plant it out. Possibly waiting longer would have a negative effect, but it seems to work transplanting it this way. I do need to put the next batch out in a sunnier location. It doesn't get very big, and I harvest by pulling up the entire plant, roots and all, and keeping it in about 3" of water in a glass crock with a ceramic lid that I got from Burpees years and years ago (it was sold as a "Parsley Keeper"). It stays fresh virtually forever that way, doesn't keep at all well if you cut off the roots.

Sojourner

Hi lil_elvis, I'm also from UK. Scotland and have roughly the same conditions as you, I think for a start, you will need to add horticultural sand to your soil or some fine gravel as the herbs you are trying to grow need a better draining soil than we normally have in UK, your Thyme should have been OK without a cover, not sure what you used as a cover, but if it had plastic in it, you prob caused the plant to rot or get a mould growing on it, I have had thyme growing for about ten years in the same spot and had to get rid this year as it kind of died in the middle and all the growth was on the outer part of the plant, we get snow, hail rain fog and hot sun, sometimes four seasons in the one day, so your thyme should have been OK, the corriander needs a light soil also so what I am saying, for all the herbs to grow here in UK, you need to maybe make a special bed for them add plenty sand/fine grit etc, so that it makes a well drained area as the herbs dont like to sit in cold wet soil, and in the summer, with the mix I said, this will heat up faster for the herbs, you said that the herbs you grew were from the shop, was that the supermarket herb counter, as these are plants grown only to last a short time, they want you to go back again for more plants for indoor use, they wont make money if we are all able to keep our herbs for years, I would buy the plants from a garden center or DIY store when they come in small pots, you can buy a herb pack of little plants, or grow from seed, that way a good few will germinate and you have some to fall back on should some fail to grow beyond the 2 inch scale. you should not need a greenhouse for most herbs unless you are going for the very tender ones, but all the common herbs we can grow here, you just need the right soil conditions, the sunniest area you have and dont kill them with kindness, once they germinate, treat them as plants not crystal glasses, water and feed them but remember they need a soil that wont hold onto too much moisture. Hope this helps you out and you have many good recipes to exchange with us from your new herb garden. good luck. Weenel.

BDale is correct in that cilantro just doesn't hang around long -- it grows up to about 8-12", stays there a couple of weeks, bolts, and then dies. You can't keep it going for long, but instead have to do frequent successive plantings. It's a very short-lived annual. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't keep cilantro growing either until I found this out.

About the thyme -- what kind did you plant? Some thyme are annuals and some are perennials.

Sweet Basil grows amazingly fast if kept even in partial sun. Best is to buy the plant and transplant it.

Basil from seed is easy as pie. I got more basil than I could shake a stick at from one 10¢ packet of Sweet Basil seeds from WalMart. I got 24 plants from one 6 pak (dropped it, thought it was all spilled or buried too deep, reseeded, it ALL came up). Even though I had to separate seedling (had anywhere from 2 to 6 per division), they nearly all transplanted well.

I vote for starting it from seed yourself. Plus you have more choice of varieties that way. The stuff grows like a weed.

Sojourner

My thoughts on some herbs that I am growing at the moment. I probably have a few others that I am not thinking of right now, but these are the main ones that make up my herb garden.

Basil is indeed very easy to grow, and available in a ton of interesting varieties. I think that I would have a perfectly good herb garden if I grew nothing but a half dozen different basils. Right now I am growing three varieties: about eight fairly standard sweet basils, three thai basils, and a "purple ruffles". I started all of them in containers this spring, and have since transplanted a couple of the sweet basils into the ground. The other sweet basils have sort of become sacrificial plants that I move around and put near any plants that are having Japanese beetle problems. No matter what, the beetles like the basil better, and they eat the heck out of it without managing to kill the plants. I have allowed the thai basils to go to flower, unlike most of my herbs, because they are a nice ornamental, I eat the flowers, and I don't think that flowering affects the taste of the leaves as it does with many herbs. All of my basils in containers are susceptible to wilt if they go about half a week without rain, but they come back quickly with a little water.

I am really angry about my choice of cilantro/coriander plants this year. I planted the "delfino" variety, and the plant was so wispy and quick to bolt as to be almost useless. As others pointed out, cilantro has a very short life span, but the delfino has such fine wispy growth before it goes to seed that I really didn't get much of anything from it.

I am also growing a couple varieties of oregano. If anything, they are easier than basil. They require hardly any care, and are a perennial here in Pennsylvania. The greek varieties are an excellent groundcover, but all of them grow well either in the garden or in containers.

Most parsleys are fairly easy, but I had a problem with my flat leaf getting awfully leggy when we had a few weeks of dry heat early in the season. The curly parsleys are easier to grow and a nice landscaping plant, but most people don't think they taste as good.

Most sages are super easy to grow, even though they probably get more rain than they want here in PA. They have been perennials for me, even though I would think that my winters are a little colder than they would like also.

Rosemary is among my favorite herbs. Your best bet is to find someone who grows it and get some cuttings. I have had some plants in the past that grew into nice bushes, but my ex got them in the divorce. The ones I have right now are a little lankier, and I guess that I should prune them back a little. They seem to be working out ok though, and I am lazy, so I will most likely let them grow as is until I get bored.

Hi Bobby,

Your thoughts on herb growing are quite interesting, and good to "meet" another PA gardener on here!

I think you hit the nail on the head about the virtues of basil and the many varieties that are available. We are only growing the standard Genovese this year, but in the past almost alway grow some Thai and have also done several other varieties (including the "Purple Ruffles") in past years. The look, smell, and taste of fresh basil is darn hard to beat. I didn''t realize the basil could be used as a Japanese Beetle trap. Very good idea as a couple parts of our garden are overrun with them. (In essence, we are using our zinnias in the same way you are using your basil).

Frustrating about your cilantro. I've had better luck, I guess. We've been planting a variety labelled "Slo-Bolt" from The Cook's Garden that we've had sitting around since 2005. (I bought one of those mega-size packets instead of the normal backyard garden size packet). I keep putting a few seeds (maybe 20 or so) in an empty spot in the garden, wait (forever) for them to emerge, thin them, and voila: more cilantro. But as somebody who likes to cook with it, I try to plan menus that will feature cilantro when it is ready because it just doesn't last long for me. I have been pleased with the leaf size, however, not "wispy" as you are describing the Delfino. Hope you'll have better luck next time around because it is such a versatile herb if you can get the doggone stuff to grow for you.

Good information on the other herbs. You're inspiring me to try some of them next season. Happy gardening!
BDale

I had a thought about the bug problem on the basil. Not sure if this is great advice, since I'm still pretty new to gardening. However, I have basil in container that was attached by mealy and by cutworms. I purchased a product called NEEM and mixed it with water and a little bit of liquid dish soap. When I sprayed that on my basil, it completely got rid of the bugs. Maybe that would help?