How does one begin to create compost?

Getting down to basics, I suppose. But what does one need in order to create a compost pile? Does anyone have any 'recipes' that they might be willing to share?

Hi Candyce, welcome to DG! I see that you're a subscriber, so the best thing to do is head over to the soil & composting forum, if you read some of the threads over there you'll probably find the info you're looking for you, and if not you can post your questions there and the experts will help you out.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/soil/all/

Thanks for the link. I see that I have a lot to learn, not only about gardening, but also about this website and all of the forums!!

Candyce,

A simple formula is organic matter + heat/sunlight + water +oxygen.

A small piece of fence wound in a 2-3 ft circle. put in leaves, banana peals, fruit/veggies gone bad, more leaves.

The oxygen part is the most work because you need to roll or mix it around every few weeks/month to get the oxygen spread all over.

The summer months are when the organic matter breaks down faster.

It seems to take too long unless you do it on a larger scale.

Thanks, Ham:

I will take your directions and run with them. We have already begun, of sorts, by just dropping weeds and such into a large container. We haven't mixed them up, yet, but it's on the agenda.

Hi Candyce! Don't put weeds in your compost - only grass clippings, leaves, & fruit/vegetable matter. I did that a couple years ago and ended up spreading weed seeds in my garden :(

You can also use things like eggshells in the pile...no meat, oils, or greases. If you want your leaves to break down fast, put them into a large trash can and use the weedeater to shread them! I have also used cheap beer to start the 'cooking'.
BTW...the compost pile made a great place to store all the plants that hadn't been planted yet during our freaky freezes in the spring. Nice and warm.

Wow!
What great advice from everyone.
OK - no weeds in the compost. I already knew about the fats, greases and meats. Now I know where to keep the little young plants warm in the early spring! What a great idea.
And beer!! My DSIL will just LOVE to hear that one!

Thanks everyone!

Hi candyce, you say you have started you pile in a container, hope it is bottomless or you will end up with a smelly mess, the pile needs air to stay fresh, know that sound daft when we tell you things need to rot, but air is also a factor in the prosses, add anything that aint man made, things that start from natural items like newpaper (from trees, cardboard, but shred these two items, weeds are ok so long as you dont add the seedheads or the roots, but if the weeds are like little seedlings, then I add those, you can add your old soil from pots as you repot things, sea weed is great, if you have a nettle patch, cut the foliage off before the flowers come and add these amnimal manure, mushroom compost, peelings and skins from your fruit and veg when you prepare them in your kitchen, coffee grounds, teabags etc, also hedge/ shrub trimmings but chop them up, dont add any deseased plants as you will spread this due to the heat build up in the pile, if you add lawn cuttings, dont add them in barrowloads all at once as they will suffocate the pile, so add them between layers of other things, and every couple of months, turn the pile over so that the rotted stuff goes to the top and the fresh goes into the bottom, this speads up the decomposting, but personaly, I dont turn mine, I wait till it is really full and cover it with a lid, let it do the work itself, check it every now and again to make sure it aint smelly, and cover it again, I take a year to use the compost, but as it is rotting down, I start a second pile so I am never without, I then throw all the firt rotted lot onto my beds and borders, I dont use it for seed planting as I buy sterile compost from the store for seeds so I am hundred per cent sure that the seeds wont get any fungal deseases from bits of home made compost that older plants can fight off, I have never had a problem but dont like to take the chance with my seedlings Good luck. WeeNel.

Thanks WeeNel. You have provided invaluable information. I have copied it, OK?

Lawn clippings will really heat up your compost pile, but like Wee Nell said, they can overwhelm it, too. I layer grass clippings with newspaper, it's a great way to balance your carbon/nitrogen ratio. Just separate the sheets of newspaper so they don't clump up in thick layers. You can shred them or kind of crumple them up a bit before pouring the grass clippings on top. In fact, I used to take home the shredder output from my old job and use it for mulch. It was great stuff!

Also, there's no problem with putting weeds in your compost as long as you pull them before they go to seed. I mulch anyway, so I've never had much problem with weeds in the garden. If they poke their heads above the mulch, they get them pulled right off. And it's no problem to pull a weed coming up from under mulch. Usually I get the whole thing, along with about 8" of root, LOL! Comes right up like I'm pulling it out of sand.

Do avoid putting any spent plants or dropped leaves (from your garden plants, not from trees, tree leaves are fine and dandy) in the compost. I never compost dead plants, even if they died of natural causes, because of the risk of overwintering disease and pests. Better to clean up your spent plants and toss them, unless you have a really hot compost pile that you monitor with a temperature gauge. Some people do, I don't, so I throw away my used up plants.

Sojourner

Excellent advice about the dead or dying plants. I never would have thought of that. And the newspaper idea in awesome, too.

Thanks again so much.

Candyce dont add too much moisture to the pile and add all the coffee grounds you can get, also cut 2" PVC pipe the width of your pile and stack them in every 10 or so inches,this will let air into the pile and also lets you get water into the middle of the pile. I might recommend investing in some fish bait too(redworms work best) just dump them on the pile and let them eat away.You might also try to find the book "worms eat my garbage" ,probably in the bookworm section of DG
good luck

Hi while you are waiting for the "proper compost" here is a Quick one.... a 40 litre bag of cow doo and a cup of garden lime...mix it all up in a wheelbarrow ...throw it into a garbage bag and secure....leave in a warm place for a fortnight.....result instant compost.

Thanks, fremar, for the book title. I'll look for it.

Chrissy - thanks for the 'instant' compost!! I do know of a nearby dairy farm - LOL!!

Strawy manure (stable cleanings) is excellent compost material. Somebody mentioned coffee grounds - great idea, also egg shells. My dad even composts bread when it gets moldy (he's older and doesn't necessarily work his way all the way through the loaf before it goes bad). Personally I wouldn't do that, it has the potential for drawing vermin (mice and rats). But he has one of those black plastic compost bins, turns stuff into compost fairly quickly.

The earth worms - this is a bad idea if you're actually running a compost pile. A compost pile, properly built, will kill worms (too hot! If it doesn't get hot enough to kill worms, it's not hot enough to properly compost).

Red worms are great for vermiculture, though. "Worms Eat My Garbage" is not about traditional composting, but how to process kitchen scraps safely and cleanly into usable "worm castings". You can set up a vermiculture bin separately from your compost pile, even inside your house. There are kits (expensive) and directions all over the web (much cheaper).

Hope that helps.

Sojourner

I'm a l-a-a-a-z-y gardener.

I have a couple of 3 sided bins made out of lashed together wood skids/pallets just sitting on the ground . I get lots of worms into the cool compost in the bottom.
I just dump everything acceptable on top of the pile and use a long handled shovel to scoop out from underneath the pile. This year one of the piles has a volunteer cherry tomato plant growing on it ...... perfect IMO ☺

This message was edited Jul 8, 2007 11:19 AM

Scooter~I had to laugh about the volunteer plants:-) We get tomatoes, too along with pumpkins. This year I had a pumpkin that came up along the edge of a new bed that DH dug for me. I now have a huge pumpkin that it just getting ready to turn orange. I've been telling some friends about the volunteers and now have some adoptive homes lined up for next year!

The 2" perforated drain pipe is a good idea too. One of the problems with composting grass clippings (especially if you put it straight into the compost pile before it has a chance to dry out) is that it goes anaerobic so fast (very hot, very smelly, very nasty stuff that your neighbors will hate you for). The perforated pipe means you don't have to turn the pile as often, too. The practice of layering grass clippings with something more high-carbon (such as shredded paper) also works to counteract the possibility of ending up with an anaerobic process running out of control.

When I have space - which I don't where I'm at now - I keep two piles, one that's "cooking" to add all the latest organic material too, and one that's "aged" for a year. Any big chunks not yet rotted get tossed into the pile that's still on the burner (as it were).

Sojourner

has anyone tried worm composting? i know it has a fancier name but from what i can tell it is raising worms to eat your kitchen sraps and make worm casings which are excellent for growing things--i am giving it a try and started the "bedding" and the box and now just need to get the worms---

Yeah, that's vermiculture. I don't have space for it now. However, "lasagna" gardening (I was doing this before it was called that) is working very well for me.

I lay cardboard on the bare ground between plants.

Any weeds that dare to try to grow get pulled and tossed on top of the cardboard.

Weed seeds don't matter because the cardboard covers the soil.

No more weeds come up because they are blocked by the cardboard.

The ground temperature is moderated - warmer at night and cooler at the height of day.

And I don't have to maintain a separate compost pile.

YAY!

Sojourner

Well now. I like that idea, Sojourner. Do you use large pieces of cardboard, or smaller ones, so that it's not too unsightly?

If you don't like the look of the cardboard you could put mulch over top of it. Some people use newspaper instead of cardboard too, although I would think the weeds would have a harder time finding their way through cardboard!

i also am trying the lasagna method---i used wet newspaper-then tossed my compost (which wasn't completely composted but i figure it will continue in the lasagna) then put mulch on top--it is pretty thick--about 8 inches i would guess--i have not planted anything because i plan to let it just rest till fall--but it looks nice and neat and i just keep adding a little more area every few weeks--i guess mine is not layers since i just toss on my compost but the same idea---

Cut the cardboard to whatever size is appropriate to go between your plants. There's no set size they have to be, just cover the soil. If you live in a VERY dry area, make sure the ground is wet before you lay down the cardboard. Works well where you get enough rain anyway or (we're in drought) if you water appropriately (I have a drip system set up).

Sojourner

my lasagna layering is in place for a while now and i have 4 plants--they are not dead but not doing great--the lavender looks terrible and i don't remember what perennial flower i put for the other two but they are alive --they just haven't done anything -now new growth, flowers, etc----i am not giving up on the method but am treating that area of the yard like an experiment --

You still need to fertilize, etc, even with the mulch. Two questions - have you checked under the cardboard mulch for moisture? And also, what have you layered on top of the cardboard? The layer on top helps keep the cardboard from drying out, which in turn keeps the cardboard permeable to water - e.g., rain water soaks through instead of running off.

Wait, I see you were using shredded paper? Shredded paper can sometimes mat and cause water to run off instead of soaking in. Some characteristic of paper makes it more likely to mat than cardboard is. The thing with cardboard is you have to keep it moist once it gets wet - if it dries totally out before it starts to break down, water will run off it. Piling weeds and clippings on top of it keeps that from happening. Paper, however, is an entirely different matter.

When using shredded paper, I have had better luck mixing it thoroughly with grass clippings to keep it from clumping up and making paper-mache instead of compost. Then I do the typical dropping-on-top of the weeds and grass clippings.

Also, if the paper is white, it is essential that you cover it up quickly. White paper reflects sun and cools the soil. That might or might not be a problem in Texas, since it's so hot there usually anyway and cooling the soil may be a GOOD thing, but it was DEFINITELY a problem in Ohio's heavy clay soil. Again, cardboard (being brown - I break up shipping boxes to do this) doesn't have this problem.

Once you've but the cardboard down, the rest of the mulch doesn't have to be in "layers", I just pile mine on. I used the cardboard/weeds mulch on half the garden and never got around to doing anything with the rest. I've got no weeds and the plants are growing like crazy. I pull weeds mostly from the un-mulched area and whatever sticks it's heads through the fence. The plants in the unmulched area haven't done as well, but they were also more stressed when I put them out since they were planted out later.

My tomato plants are absolutely loaded with tomatoes - even the year I mulched with a 12" layer of spoiled hay - which up to now was the best garden I had ever had - didn't produce like these. Those were spaced 4' apart, these are only 18" apart (ala Square Foot Gardening), but these are producing the heaviest crop of tomatoes I have ever seen. I only have the 2 plants and I'm going to have to freeze or can, there are way too many for me to manage.

Sojourner

This message was edited Sep 3, 2007 11:53 AM

i put layers of newspaper (not shredded- pages) down--wet those and throw on compost and top it with mulch (wood chips) --it is about 8 inches deep---when i planted a few plants i took them from the store and put them into the compost with the dirt from the pot surrounding the roots--it seems strange to think of them growing in compost and maybe i should have waited till fully composted--next spring will be a better time to plant in it--if a plant has deeper roots what will it do--the roots can't go thru the paper--do they just spread out?

AH! I see the problem! With lasagna gardening you are planting in soil medium that you have created above ground level. I probably shouldn't call what I'm doing lasagna gardening - frankly, I think what I'm doing is actually easier than lasagna gardening. I'm using cardboard and other organic "stuff" to mulch and compost in place. This will eventually have a similar effect to "real" lasagna gardening, eg that of raising the level of the beds.

In "REAL" lasagna gardening, you not only lay down the newspaper and cardboard and what not, you also add "create" a planting medium on top of that using a lot of peat moss, layered with grass clippings and other organic material. This is possibly very necessary if you have really crappy soil but I don't need to go to those extremes here. My soil is fine, and by composting in layers in place, it gets better every year while also killing the weeds.

I guess what I'm doing is essentially what the woman who "invented" lasagna gardening did her first year, only I laid the cardboard down and THEN covered it up with pulled weeds while she just tromped down the weeds that were already out of control and covered them with cardboard and more organic matter. My way keeps things under control from the first, and it's cheaper and easier since I don't have to buy a bunch of peat moss to create a growing medium - the soil I have is fine.

I see why you are having the problems you are having - without the peat moss, you essentially have no growing medium, just the stuff you normally would have put in your compost. That won't hold moisture, and things won't grow well. The peat moss effectively acts to retain moisture and help with giving a decent substrate (in combination with the grass clippings) for root development. Earth worms will eventually riddle such beds and effectively mix everything and aerate without the need to till. But what I'm doing, essentially strip-composting in place, has all of those effects as well, and doesn't require me to add peat moss or even to pay any particular attention to what I'm tossing out there or in what order, once the cardboard layer has been put down.

Is your soil very bad, alkaline, sandy, or have some other serious problem? Rocky? Thin? Extremely heavy clay that won't drain? Unless you have a problem like this, full-blown lasagna gardening is, IMHO, too much work. Just plant DIRECTLY into the soil and use the cardboard and organic material as weed-smothering, moisture conserving, temperature-regulating mulch. By next year the vast majority of that will have rotted down nicely, and you just do it again. This WILL build your soil up at the same time, and after awhile the area you have planted to garden will end up being higher, more worm-laden, fluffier, better-draining, and more fertile than the rest of your yard. Everything but the "higher" part will be and immediate consequence. And if anything isn't quite composted by next spring (I'm not talking sticks or wood here, just normal plant matter) it's no problem - once the soil is warm enough in the spring, just lay the cardboard on top and anything leftover from last year will be gone by season's end. You would continue to cover the cardboard with organic matter the same as before, every year.

Sorry, I guess I misappropriated the term "lasagna gardening" - that's what caused the problem. Here's a link to an article that the originator wrote telling how she implements her system. I think I'll just stick with mine, though, as it works very well for me.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1999-04-01/Lasagna-Gardening.aspx

Hope that helps.

Sojourner

Oh, no, now I learn about weeds, now that I've put them in my compost. However, I put them in a pile until they are completely dried out. Is that ok, or do I need to go through and try and dig them out

Honestly I wouldn't bother. The seeds, if there were any, will be thoroughly distributed throughout your compost by now.

However, you could consider going the strip composting in place route - spread your compost, cover it with cardboard, cover that with grass clippings, weeds, whatever you have on hand, plant into the soil through all of that - the cardboard will keep any weeds from growing, no matter how many seeds end up under or on top of it.

Doing this, the only weeds I have trouble with are the ones that travel underground and pop up 10 feet away. They're still easier to pull, though, because the mulch layer keeps the soil nice and loose and moist.

Sojourner

ok--i am going to give it a try--so let's see if i have it right
cut some cardboard and wet it and lay it on the dirt
throw any compost type plant material on top
next spring i have nice dirt and the cardboard is most likely decomposed?

Yup. Standard brown cardboard boxes like they use for shipping. These are typically not treated with any sort of waxes or dyes that might make it take longer for them to break down. At first it will seem like they won't soak up the water, I've found the best way to do this (or easiest anyway) is to get the cardboard ready, cut into pieces I know will fit, and put it down right before we're due for a big rainstorm. Then right away cover it up with you mulch-type-stuff (clippings, grass, what have you) before it dries out. I keep a (tiny) compost pile just for this purpose.

Another way would be to soak it in a large tub or tray and lay it down while it's wet, then cover immediately with your mulch. If it gets TOO wet it may fall apart while you're handling it. Wetting it with a hose doesn't work very well because until it gets wet, water just tends to run off. Once it gets wet, as long as you keep it moist with the layers of compost on top, it is permeable to moisture. By the time it's broken down enough for weeds to get through, you'd be near the end of the season and the mulch on top keeps everything down.

Then next year - start with another layer of cardboard again - any remaining weed seeds again won't make it through the layer of cardboard, and the mulch on top will keep everything evenly moist and protect against any weeds that may eventually try to break through as the cardboard breaks down.

I have probably less than 100 square feet all told to plant, in which I am growing flowers, Basil, Lettuce, eggplant, squash (although I lost that to bacterial wilt), watermelon, tomatoes, peppers, both bell and hot peppers (4 of each), green beans, and coriander. I LOVE square footing it! Anyway, I don't have room for a "real" compost pile, so started doing this - strip-composting in place - almost by necessity, and it has worked out really well for me.

This is a great way to kill sod, too. Cover it all with cardboard, covered with grass/leaves/whatever you can lay your hands on, by next spring you should be able to sink a shovel in there nicely. Otherwise killing sod or trying to turn it over is just back breaking.

Hope that helps.

Sojourner

when you said "next year start with another layer of cardboard"--do you do that very early and then wait till it breaks apart so you can start to plant? am i right that you are waiting for it to decompose before you start to plant? if so -how long does that take so i can make sure i start early enough--sorry i am so dense with this whole prosess!!!

No, I use the cardboard as a weed barrier. You could, of course, lay down cardboard over everything over the winter and pile more weeds and grass clippings on top of that - and then just dig through that next season to plant. Always plant in soil. Works best with large plants like peppers, tomatoes, and squash and melons that have some distance between them. For green beans or stuff you plant in rows, just pull back enough to expose where you want the seed to go. Once the seeds have sprouted you can strip compost between rows. It's a little more work at planting time. Well, if you ignore the fact that you're not tilling, it SEEMS like a little more work to actually plant. But given that I have pulled almost no weeds from the strip composted segment of my garden (and TONS from the area where I didn't do this), I have to say, it beats the way we gardened when I was a kid hands down. Half the back yard was planted to crops, and guess who got to weed all of that?

Who else hates hoes? I DO! I still dream about tilling, raking, planting, and weeding the family garden. Not nice dreams, either.

The "new" cardboard in the spring would be your weed barrier and it doesn't have to go down right away. I cut or tear it into strips and put it between larger plants and between rows for stuff like beans and peas. Pile on the weeds and grass clippings, which helps to conserve moisture and also hides the cardboard, which doesn't look all that cute as it starts to break down, LOL!.. ALso helps keep it from blowing away in the wind.

I do no tilling using this method. I don't know how similar it may be to Ruth Stout's "no till garden", but I have read that book (years ago) so there's probably some influence. I have seen that method criticized for it's heavy reliance on spoiled straw or hay (hard to get in the city, or sometimes even in the country). But cardboard boxes, grass clippings, and weeds are easy to get in large quantities. If so many people start gardening this way that old cardboard boxes start to come up in short supply, all I can say is, Hooray! That would be a whole lot of people gardening. It really doesn't take all that much cardboard for a one family garden, especially done square foot.

I have not tried it on heavy clay, but I've done green manuring and heavy mulching on clay and that has a pretty similar effect. I think this would have improved that soil faster than just the deep mulching I was doing before, on that type of soil.

Hope this helps.

Sojourner

thank you for taking the time to explain--i plan to try it