New blooms today

LOL! Hi Lauren and thanks, Chantell, for the introduction! You are a sweetie, and I appreciate the kind words:-)

This is the latest advice from Ken to Mickey:



"In a five gallon pot I would put in about a quart and a half of the large size (1 to 1.5 inch), if you use Scoria, I would use about 1/3 to 2/3 soil mix and I would do the same with pumice. The Lava, Scoria and Pumice are all very porous and will hold moisture without keeping the soil wet. The roots will infiltrate the pores looking for the water. Your mix will retain more water without staying wet."

"Sorry I forgot to mention the Epsom salt. I would give one tablespoon per five gallons every time you water."

"Yes, Lava rock, Scoria and Pumice all retain water within their porous body. They also assist in getting rid of wet soil due to the aeration caused by their larger size compared to the soil and their retentive properties. The roots will seek out the water as they need it to keep themselves hydrated. I have grown Plumeria in pure Lava, Scoria and Pumice. The Pumice was the least desirable only from the stand point if needing to be watered more often. When I started growing Plumeria I grew them in Lava rock, no soil, just Lava. They put out great root systems but were slow to leaf out and flower due to the lack of soil nutrients. When I removed them from the pot their root system had invaded all the lava, so I transplanted them and covered them with cactus mix. They had phenomenal growth from then on. The only problem was the weight, very heavy. By reducing the amount of lava I got rid of the excess weight but kept a sufficient water source for the roots."


Again, my opinion is that he is wrong. I also would like to point out that the normal dosage of Epsom salt is one tablespoon per one gallon, but I wouldn't recommend using it every time you water. That seems excessive to me. Terry?

Edited to add: I'm not stupid enough to believe that one of the lurkers on this forum didn't forward what I said to Ken just as people forward stuff to me every time he criticizes me. This isn't personal; it is about bad information being passed around.

This message was edited May 30, 2007 10:01 AM

clare - i changed my tune like anyone else would when faced with new supporting information. i went out on the internet and found references that state that pumice retains water. it is your business if you want to consider that misinformation. and by all means, please call me on if you think it is incorrect. you shouldn't even have to put that warning out there. i don't think i'm above the law. i welcome correction. however, i am not going to blindly sit here and say that it doesn't retain water when that is one of its God-given physical properties. i completely agree with you that it is used for soil drainage. all i have been saying is that it also retains water which you blindly refute.

i am not defending ken. i am not opposing clare. all i am doing is upholding a fact and this is that pumice has water retention properties.

as i said before, i can't argue the degree to which it is effective compared to organic material. i have not done that research.

i will stop here as i think i've clearly stated my position. if i don't respond to further post, it's not because i'm ignoring anyone.

Okay, we're good. I am tired now and going to take a nap!

All I can say (without having the knowledge ya'll have) is I most certainly do NOT add pumice to my C & S mixture to retain water...I've invested too much time and $$ to do something that would kill a plant that can go months to a year (in some cases) without rain in their natural habitat.

Chantell, I did a Internet Search as Dete suggested and did not find what he found. I too would not use it for water retention, but if others want to, that's not my problem. You are so right in what you said. I've spent thousands of dollars on my collection and wouldn't risk losing them due to advice that I thought was questionable.

I do apologize to Mickey for hijacking her thread as she has now posted her pictures of plumerias on another forum. This information was supposed to be helpful to her and others. It is up to her to see if her mix is too wet or too dry, and it is her plumerias at risk if the advice she takes is wrong. My only intention for starting this topic of conversation was to benefit her.

clare - mickey posted her plumie pics on the southwest forum on 5/27, ten minutes after she had posted them here. that was two days before you posted about the erroneous info on pals. many of the arizona people share their plumie pics on the southwest forum and some do here.

Opinions are much like anything - everyone has one - some are right for some...others are right for others. Bottom line is folks should do what works for their plants. Good for you to give the advice you do...certainly it helped (as I said previously) in saving some of my Plumies that I had started using advice/suggestions that would not have worked for me - work meaning my Plumies would probably not be here today. I'll bow out at this point as I'm sure I know the least regarding Plumies of the bunch.


This message was edited May 30, 2007 3:29 PM

yeah, i know i responded and responding again. LOL but these are new topics. haha!

believe me when i say that i am not trying to be argumentative. i know that other people are reading this and i don't want them to be confused.

the topic is not water retention. [i'm leaving pumice out of this.] i'm responding because both of your ladies comments make it look like water retention is a bad thing. you're not saying that water retention in and of itself is bad, right? i just need some clarification for the masses.


edited to say: the topic is NOW water retention.

This message was edited May 30, 2007 1:29 PM

tucson-I just read some of the above, and I can absolutely tell you that anyone that tells you to add that much epsom salts everytime that you water is nuts/crazy!! lol Magnesium is a micronutrient ...to be used in small amts. Usually the amt of it in a fert (any good fert has the micronutrients, and certainly magnesium) is sufficient for most plants, however some plants benefit from an additional amt-which is usually supplemented thru epsom salts. I buy it in 50 lb bags and run it thru my injector system when I fert my crop-but I do it only once a season. Thats all that is needed. When I plant tropicals in the ground, I will throw a handful on the ground around the plant . That will last the season, and the plant is usually a large/fast growing (larger/faster/bigger root system than a plumeria) plant like a banana or a alocasia or colocasia.

My point is that that is just bad advice-I don't know how else to say it. I guess here is where I ask...who is this guy? Is he a professional grower-not just some sales on the side-but does he make his living growing? In other words-if he loses his crop-does he not eat? lol Makes a difference in how careful you are about how you grow-not so cavalier about handing out advice.
In my short time here ( and I imagine elsewhere) I have seen some really bad info/advice given-and it takes time and effort to combat that bad advice-so you got to give Clare credit for hanging tough here...

I googled pumice and water retention myself and came up with zilch-except ads and companies selling pumice saying that it retained water. I tend to ignore those. I was looking for universities that had done studies comparing pumice to other ingredients to see which was better for water retention. I couldn't find any-and I think it is because pumice-in the horticultural world, isn't used to retain water-100% for drainage.

Why doesn't this guy come over here and play with us?? lol I love these discussions.
Terry-who still loves her white undies...

terry - got my whities on again today. okay, let me clarify. i have a different pair of whities on today. LOL

i sent you d-mail.

Thank you Chantell! Very nice to meet you Clare! I'm Lauren. I do quite well with NA indigenous species and am partial to wetland flora, terrestrial orchids, carnivorous & insectivorous plants. Most tropical plants like to knock me on my rear by dying on me. They die on me quite well but I brush myself off, get back up, and try again. I could write a book on how to kill tropical plants and have threatened to do so a few times.

I found the Plumeria 101 site already and bookmarked that over a month ago. I've obviously got more reading to do! I scrolled down on your stickie and found a boat load of other groups discussing Plumeria. I think one forum is enough for me so perhaps it is best for me to simply hang around DG and drain the brains of my own people! It's so much nicer to be amongst one's own.
MgSO4 is Epsom Salt. It's a salt! It's a salt! It's a salt! Copious amounts of water soluble salts can inhibit plant growth as well as seed germination. Managing the negative effects of a saline soil can be challenging as you're probably going to have to move the salts. In a pot this is easy enough to do by flushing but not so easy to do when working with soil where you will most probably need to move the salts to a lower root zone. The accumulation of soluble salts can alter water uptake causing ion-specific toxicities so I would caution against watering as described above. I'm not denying that magnesium and sulfur aren't able to improve phosphorus and nitrogen uptake and chlorophyll production but too much of a good thing can be too much of a good thing and may have disastrous results.

Is my nose bright red and blinking? Now don't you two be corresponding in d-mail! Be brave, post right here. Nobody wants to be left out of any reindeer games.

I think we all loose sight of the fact that a lot of what we do depends on what we have to work with. Gardening along the Guld Coast is different from gardening on the West Coast and northern terrains, etc.

There are some instances where adding pumice to the soil is beneficial. In other areas, or instances, it may not be advantageous.

Clare, you sight the fact that pumice does not retain water because your pumice bar floats. I think the make up of the pumice has something to do with it. Your pumice bar is made up of a finer grain of pumice, called pumicite. A larger pumice grade will retain more water than a finer grade.

You use bark in your soil for water retention, but doesn't bark float when it is dry? Once it is water logged, it will sink. In our area many people use pine bark for mulch in thrir flower beds. After a dry spell where the pine bark has dried out, if we get a sudden downpour the pine bark will float and spill out of the flower beds. That's one reason I don't use it. I got tired of raking it off my lawn after a heavy rain.

Lastly, improving drainage and increasing moisture retention are not mutually exclusive. I think this is case where both sides may be right. Bark does the same thing.

Joe

Dete, I think the original topic became lost somehow. Good drainage is important for plumerias, and in general, commercial mixes remain too wet so we add things like perlite and pumice to make them drain better, and they do make the soil drain better. In those hot dry areas like Australia, Arizona, Texas, and even Southern California, once you have good drainage, a little water retention is desireable so that the mix doesn't dry out too fast or cause you to have to water more often than you would like. A mix can get so dry that water just rolls off the top and down the sides, and rewetting is a chore. In those circumstances, adding bark, vermiculite, and/or more peat to the mix can aid in keeping a mix more water-retentive. This whole thing began when Ken suggested adding pumice or lave rock to aid in water retention during high temps. This is what he said:

Darlene, Chad and All,

Plumeria can grow in severe temperatures, the mid 90's into the 110 to 115 degree zone. Mine are in black pots, sitting on DG soil, gravel and concrete and the only time they suffer is when I fail to keep them moist. The pictures that Gordon Hawk posted a couple of years ago showing Plumeria growing inside of a volcano in Cost Rica, where the temps were around 120 degrees, displayed their ability to take heat. Sufficient moisture and Epsom salt will help them make it through the high temperature. The addition of lava rock, crushed lava rock or pumice in your soil mixture will help retain the necessary moisture when the temps get real high.

Ken

I said that was bad advice and that pumice doesn't retain or absorb water. It's a mineral. It's not a sponge. It's a rock. It's actually considered glass. By the way, that plumeria was growing at the base of the volcano, not in it.

Joe, I know my bar is pumicite, but regular pumice floats too. I've not done any experiments to see if I could get pumice to sink.

Anyway, I am going to sound like a broken record at this point so I am gracefully bowing out of this conversation. It takes too much of my time and energy to try and reverse bad advice so I'm going to stop trying.

Clare - please don't do that. Easiest thing to do would be to state your exp/knowledge and then "bow out." I would add more but don't want to get in trouble. Many of us greatly appreciate your taking us under your wing. It would seem some simply enjoy the "debate" more then others...no fun your having to respond each time nor any amusement in reading it.

Chantell, I suspect there may be something going on at another forum that has bled over here. Perhaps I am the newcomer here and don't fully understand the dynamics of this board however if there are issues at another forum because there is a know it all over there... why reference anything said by this person over on our site? Defies logic to stir the pot in this manner and this is exactly how we lose the best of the best. The ones with the most experience leave another forum to avoid confrontations and "get followed" so then they ultimately leave here. I have seen this scene play out time and time again.

And you know something Chantell, you're a good person and it really sucks when I read something like this, "I would add more but don't want to get in trouble". Nobody should feel as it they are going to get in trouble for adding their own personal experiences. We've all done some pretty off the wall things. Some work, and some don't. Sharing is what it's all about and it's even more fun if a little humor is added here and there.

I sure hope Clare doesn't bow out and take all of her experience with her and I sure hope there aren't any more people who have been afraid to comment here at DG because of this other forum out there.

Well, it seems that I don't mind saying what I think...lol, although I do think that this thread is falling apart in terms of common sense etc. So after this, i probably will not respond either-but to summarize how this all started:
Someone in Arizonia was having problems with keeping her pots wet in the intense summer heat. Wants to water less-and/or keep her pots wet thru the hot afternoon. So someone tells her to add pumice as it retains water.
In a nutshell-this is bad advice-I don't know how else to say it. There are many things that you can add to a potting medium to retain water-pumice is not anywhere at the top or even in the middle. Its bad advice. You want to water your pots more? Want better drainage? Pumice would be a viable choice. But she doesn't want to water more, and if she ( or others reading it-and thats key here too cause its the web and people look here for advice)takes this guys advice and adds pumice thinking " oh ok, if I add pumice I will water less" , she made a bad choice and will end up watering more- I don't understand why anyone would argue in defense of this advice??? There seems to be a theme here with this person- its called bad advice. You want to add some magnesium to your potting medium-great, maybe there isn't enough in your fert-so add a little-thats all you need. But if you add epsom salts everytime you water-a few things will happen and they aren't good. Epsom salts is magnesium sulfur- a small amt does not change the PH, but over time,and in the amt suggested-you will lower your PH. Then there is the potential for real problems-# 1 being that micronutrients are blocked because the PH is too low-then you have to add lime, and it is real easy to go to high in the PH etc-you get the picture. Another problem is that epsom salts contain salts. Salts are what burns roots. You have to be careful when adding amendities to the growing medium, and it is far better and safer to err on the less side-not the more side. Again-bad advice.

Speaking from personal experience-having lived on the Big Island about 5 miles from an active volcano in Puna-I can tell you that plumerias do not grow in a active volcano-where supposedly the heat is so great. On the sides of an inactive volcano? Maybe-but there is no heat generated from an inactive volcano, and therefore the statement is irrelevant and inaccurate. I don't think I need to say anymore about that. Well-one more thing-who says something that silly?

Joe-when you are discussing potting mediums and choices-it is really irrevelant where you live. We all have access to stores and the internet, and we can all get our hands on the same stuff. Maybe where you live dictates what kind of potting medium you want due to the weather, but that is different. I don't think we are talking about planting in the ground here either. In other words, one doesn't choose pumice to put in their potting medium just because they live a certain place, and they need that. We all can work with the same thing-or not-regardless of where we live-
Also, Joe, when comparing pumice and bark or bark mixes in terms of water holding capacitity-are you saying that there is no difference? You would choose pumice as fast as bark in terms of wanting to water less, because you think that pumice holds water as well as a bark in a potting medium? I can tell you that I, and other professional growers would not-no question.
I use shredded hardwood mulch in my beds and it doesn't move-even in a hurricane. I think if you try it, you will see. :)
Anyway, enough from me-I tried in this post to maybe clear some things up for anyone out there that may have been confused (understandable).
Also-thanks to Clare for always taking the time to answer new growers questions-I see these questions all the time here, and without fail, Clare is the one taking the time to answer them- that is one reason why I think she is so valuable here. As well, her unfailing encouragement to new growers and old alike.

How in the world did I miss this thread! This is really an excellent discussion and I would ask that nobody "bow out," especially Clare. We just need some data...

This is interesting: http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=clanak_download&id_clanak_jezik=8300

And this study is fascinating: http://www.ulmer.de/Vorlagen/Webapp/Cache/CMS/gawi_2_1876.PDF

This study suggests that, by itself, pumice holds more water at low tensions than perlite or sand. Actually, by itself, pumice held more water than any other substrate tested! But combine pumice with anything else (peat, peat moss, sawdust, perlite) and the percent of micropores (which hold the water available to the plants) dropped every time. Sand combinations were the only combinations which held less water.

I don't see anyone here talking about particle size. To effectively improve drainage using a large particle growing mix requires that the other ingredients in the mix have a similar particle size. So putting a little bit of pumice in a mix with mostly peat may not greatly improve the macroporosity and drainage, because the larger pumice particles will not touch each other...they won't create the macropores by holding themselves apart, the peat will just fill in the spaces. Macroporosity (and thereby drainage) are effectively increased by having most of the particles of similar size, whether it be perlite, pumice, bark, coconut husk chips, or Turface.

Turface seems to me to be a very nice component for a plumeria soil mix. It holds its weight in water and it is very slow to break down.

Edited to correct the quote, which was partially deleted by less than and greater than signs!

SB

This message was edited May 31, 2007 1:25 PM

I was trying to locate this research but with the new computer and all... I couldn't find it. Muchas gracias Robert! Contributors like you are exactly why "it is best for me to simply hang around DG and drain the brains of my own people! It's so much nicer to be amongst one's own".

I don't understand why this particular topic has made some people so defensive. If you want to maintain an open forum where ideas are exchanged, you have to be receptive to other's opinion without making them feel uncomfortable.

Tiger, I did not say that I would prefer pumice to bark. I have never used pumice in my potting mix. The point I am trying to make is that some people do. If that is the case, do we necessarily have to condem them. There are studies that say that punice increases water retention in the soil.

Why is pumice different from perlite? Perlite increases aeration in the soil and it also "increases" moisture retention. If you mix dry perlite in a new batch of potting mix, when you first water it the perlite will float. It has a tendency to seperate from the soil. Later when it absorbs moisture, it becomes heavier and stays in place. However, let the potting mix dry out and water it again, some of the perlite will float.

You are making a blanket statement that this is not possible for pumice. The porocity of pumice is what helps it to retain water. Water fills the pours and does not run out directly in a medium that contains pumice.

Let me put it this way. If I bury a cup in a pot, facing up, with a very fine mesh that will not allow soil to pass through, when I water that pot, water will become trapped in the cup even though most of the other water will drain. Plant roots will seek out that water in the cup if they need it.

You also state that "when you are discussing potting mediums and choice - it is really irrelevant where you live." I take exception with that statement. In my situation, the time of the year is relevant. When I choose a potting mix, I choose one that will serve me at different seasons. I believe my climate is much more humid that yours. I know it is a lot more humid than in parts of California and other areas in the midwest. I don't want a potting mix that retains a lot of water. We have some cold, overcast, wet winters where water soes not evaporate quicky. That time of year I want my potting soil to be dryer. With that same potting soil, I have to water just about every day in the summer. That is the trade off I make. I water more in the summer to save my plants for the winter. I have lost more plants rotting due to cold and dampness than to freezing.

I also take exception with you telling me to try hardwood bark because "it doesn't move - even in a hurricane." Are you suggesting I was making it up when I said that my pine bark mulch floats during a heavy downpour. "I HAVE TRIED IT AND I HAVE RAKED IT OFF MY LAWN WHEN IT SPILLED OUT OF MY FLOWER BEDS.

The point I am trying to make is that our experience is developed locally and through our trial and errors. What works for one person may not work for someone else. You have to weigh the advice that is given. I am no expert by any means, but I believe I am fairly knowledgeable when it comes to certain plants. Yet, I hear people give advice that I know will not work in my situation. I may give them my opinion as an alternative to consider; however, I am not going to tell them they are absolutely wrong because they do some things differently from me.

I would like to think that people do not intentionally give out misinformation. If they are doing something wrong, they will find out through experience.

Nobody had been shouting until now, it's really not necessary. I also don't believe it's appropriate to attack any one personally. Let's attack the idea not the person, ok?

I would agree whole heartedly with this. It is nice to share what one knows about plants, very nice to share appropriate supporting research if available, but personal experiences are by far the best to share and I'm not talking about sharing other people's personal experiences. There is no better teacher than experience regardless of the level of proficiency with any given species one has achieved. That being said, I truly do value the first hand personal experience of others... to sum it up, no sense me getting hit by a mack truck if someone else already has. "Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself." I would agree with this. Unfortunately, it would appear there were expectations that members of DG were supposed to be receptive to the opinions of a person from another gardening site who isn't even posting here. That makes me uncomfortable. I simply don't understand why there are times when members feel the need to share the third party beliefs and practices of another. What is the point to the exercise? I'm at a loss and don't particularly appreciate hear say information. Information received via rumor is simply of no interest to me. As an outsider to this forum, I knew absolutely none of the regulars here. I literally was a lurker who had recently purchased a few Plumeria pudica and was hoping to get a little bit of help to save myself from surfing the net. What I stumbled upon appears to be some sort of a "let's promote another site" at the expense of DG and a DG member here who seems to contribute a heck of a lot to our site and is incredibly considerate of neophite Plumeria lover wannabes. To add insult to injury, it would appear our member left that other site for some peace and quiet only to get bombarded in this thread? There's something fundamentally wrong with this scenario. If this member from that other site wants to participate over here at DG, why doesn't he just cough up the pittance and register and speak for himself. Besides which, everyone posting in this thread has more than enough qualtiy personal experiences to draw upon to share with others.

Joe, I know I was supposed to back out of this conversation, and I really want to, but I just want to step in to clarify, not to argue my point again and again.

Firstly, I think we're all nice people here, and no one wants anyone to feel uncomfortable.

Secondly, I think we just disagree. Some of us believe that pumice does not retain water, and some of us believe that pumice does retain water. The study by the university above that Robert quoted said that, paraphrasing and using your cup analogy, peat and small particles fill in the cup space (micropores) and dry out as fast as the other soil particles. So, in your analogy, there is no cup screen, and in 100-degree heat or higher, which is the context in which this advice was given, it isn't a water-retention mechanism for plumerias grown in the desert of Arizona. You are right that it is up to trial and error generally to teach us what works and what doesn't. Plumerias are so expensive though, and I know Mickey has spent a great deal of her time and money keeping them alive through the winter that I would hate to see her suffer any loss.

As for what Terry said, I think you might have misunderstood what she was trying to say. You are quite right that environment very much dictates what mix we use and how we grow our plants. I don't think she would dispute that. I think she was saying if you use 1/3 Supersoil, 1/3 pumice, and 1/3 perlite, and I use that same mix, it will have the same properties for you and for me no matter where we live. It will drain the same and retain water the same. In other words, pumice functions the same on the East Coast and on the West Coast because its properties are consistent. I think that is all she was trying to say there.

Off I go...

Lauren, I was posting at the same time as you and missed seeing your thread. I agree with you about the hearsay info. I think what happens is this: there are members here that are also members over there, and many of them don't have a lot of personal experience growing plumerias so they rely on advice given in both of these groups. They think that the information that they get over there and repeat over here is good information since this man claims to be a plumeria guru that has been growing plumerias as a hobby, or so he says, for 37 years. They think that they are contributing knowledge to the discussion and don't realize that they are perpetuating bad info. There actually is a lot of misinformation swirling around -- more than I ever imagined. Some people just love giving advice be it right or wrong and don't have the growing experience or knowledge that they should have to hand out such advice. What can you do? The answer is nothing. I just give my opinion when it is asked for, and they can take it or leave it.

That's ok, I've been doing it a lot lately in threads over photos when a few people start whipping back and forth about Australian birds and herps.

Gosh I am really missing my camera. I dropped it a few days ago and it was the only one I knew how to use. If my camera was functional, I'd take a photo of my plumerias and post it. I'm really excited about them. They are my first.

Oh, my, gosh. Been there; done that. I had my own digital camera that I used for taking pictures, and I dropped it and broke it! Now I am using hubby's camera. When he gave it to me, I asked him if there was anything that I needed to know about it, and he said, "Yes. Don't drop it."

This message was edited May 31, 2007 9:18 PM

I've got a replacement on the way coming from eBay. This is going to sound really pathetic but I've also have a Cannon Power Shot in the box that came with (gasp) an owner's manual that was too complicated for me sooooooooo, I ordered a Nikon D80 thinking that would be user friendly and it is anything but user friendly so I am back to scrounging eBay to find the Kodak EasyShare discontinued model that I do know how to use. I think I'm starting a collection of cameras that I don't know how to use that come with owner's manuals that are ridiculous.

OMG Lauren...ask me and I'll answer whatever I can. I got the PowerShot S3 IS for Christmas...I LOVE it....I'd seriously need meds if I didn't have it - between the new DGD and blooms left and right..yepper, I'd be twitching!!

I would like to add this one last item to this topic to confirm a statement that I made earlier, "improving drainage and increasing moisture retention are not mutually exclusive." Will anyone dispute that Milt Pierson is a reputable expert when it comes to growing plumerias? He states in this bulletin, 'Pumice might be my first choice if it were available in Houston. The purpose of this additive is to keep the soil more porous so that water drains good. Also, the porous nature of the particles will help retain water and nutrients for the plant roots to absorb and allow oxygen to percolate through the root zone."

Vol. 8 No. 1 Plumeria Care Bulletin March, 1998

Soil Mix and Containers
for Growing Healthy Plumeria

Plumeria have become quite popular as container plants, especially for those of us living in climates where it is necessary to move plants to protect from freezing winter weather. To be successful at maintaining plant health and vigor, we must choose the correct type and size container and fill with an equally well selected soil mix.

Container Type
There are many types of pots or containers available today ranging from ceramic to plastic. While the ceramic and clay pots are generally more decorative than black plastic nursery cans, they may not be the most ideal. I use the rigid variety of black plastic nursery containers for all of my plumeria. These containers have at least 4 good drainage holes towards the bottom to allow for great drainage. They come in many sizes; 1 gallon, 2 gal., 3 gal., 5 gal. etc... Also, they are cheap!! Salt buildup is not a problem as with standard clay pots. The black plastic nursery containers are much less likely to develop a drainage problem than pots with only one drainage hole in the bottom center. Roots can grow freely through the many drainage holes without much risk of stopping drainage. In clay pots with only one drain, a tap root can fill the hole and stop drainage. If this problem were to go undetected during a wet season or after heavy watering, the Plumeria roots could be severely damaged or killed. It is therefore necessary to choose your containers carefully for the plant it will contain.

Container Size
Choosing the correct container for your Plumeria may be one of the most important factors in determining how well it will perform for you. Experience has shown that Plumeria need ample root room while actively growing. Those grown in open ground always perform and bloom better than those held captive in small pots. A general rule of thumb is to allow 1 gallon pot size for each foot of plumeria branch / trunk length. By choosing a large enough pot, you allow more room for root growth which in turn leads to better moisture and nutrient uptake by the plant.

Plumeria Potting Soil Mix
Plumeria are heavy feeders and appear to do well in fertile well draining soil. A good soil mix is one that allows water to soak the rootball quickly. While retaining plenty of moisture, it must allow excess water to drain within a few minutes. The good soil mix should contain plenty of nutrients to encourage growth and blossoms on plumeria also. One soil mix that works well is as follows:

1 part 1/4 inch bark mulch (Professional planting mix)
1 part good potting soil
1 part calcined clay, or pumice (or Soil Pro® 400, or perlite)
1 part sheep manure (or cow manure)
1 part sharp sand
1/6 part bone meal or superphosphate (or slow release high P plant food)
The calcined clay I referred to looks more like Kitty Litter and may be the same stuff. It is essentially a granular product derived from sintering clay at a temperature high enough to melt the individual particles together. The product is then ground and screened into various size ranges. This material can be found as a product called Soil Pro® 400 at nurseries in Houston. I have found it (slightly less fused) as oil dry at our local Hi-Lo Auto Parts Store. If this is not available, then either pumice (1/8 to 1/4 inch particles) or coarse perlite can be used. I think pumice is readily available in garden centers in the California area. Actually, Pumice might be my first choice if it were available in Houston. The purpose of this additive is to keep the soil more porous so that water drains good. Also, the porous nature of the particles will help retain water and nutrients for the plant roots to absorb and allow oxygen to percolate through the root zone. If sheep manure is not available, I suggest composted cow (or steer) manure as the second choice. I do not have experience with chicken manure, but if it is well composted, it should work as well. The idea is to get a slow release natural organic fertilizer into the soil mix.

Other additives can be used to round out this mix such as 1 part perlite and 1 part peat moss. A handful or two of Osmocote® with equal N-P-K numbers (or any another slow-release fertilizer) can be added to ensure slow feeding over an extended period of time. This soil mixture should also be heavy enough to help keep potted plants upright in a moderate breeze.




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Last modified February 21, 1998




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Published over the years in the Plumeria Potpourri newsletter, the Plumeria Care Bulletins were primarily authored by Milt Pierson and the PSA Research Committee.

If you wish to contact Mr. Pierson, email to PSA Research Committee.


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The Plumeria Society of America expects that you the consumer will carefully follow manufacturers label directions for all chemicals and tools.

© 1979-2007 The Plumeria Society, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Chantell! You are my life saver! We are going to have to exchange phone numbers. I will call you when I have the camera in my hand and you can give me blow by blow instructions on what does what. I have been trying desperately to figure out how to balance whites and take macro shots. I'd also like to know what kind of batteries or battery charger you are using because the thing is a beast and sucks the life out of batteries in the blink of an eye.

I suppose the brand new D80 will now sit on the shelf along with the Kodak Easy Share I've not even received yet!

Maybe I will be able to take a photograph of my new baby plumerias real soon. Say Chantell... I forgot but did you order any Plumeria from that co-op? How are yours doing? I was too busy to pot mine up until last week. I just repotted mine using Clare_CA's mix. They are probably not happy about that but oh well, they'll thank me in the long run!

I know I was not involved in any of the original conversation, but I have an alternative. An alternative to ugly black pots, which do work extremely well for plumerias, but are an eye sore on the patio. Concrete pots coated with glaze or paint, do not absorb salt! They look much better, and hold up longer than clay pots. They come in assorted colors. Fiberglass pots are also nice and very light. They also come in great colors.

Joe-I have not read everything that was written above-but the caps in your post caught my attention so let me respond to that and apologize that I didn't make myself clearer about the mulch on beds. I wasn't calling you a liar-I was agreeing with you! This is part of what I do for a living-growing annuals for a living for landscapers and helping them get them installed properly-with the right ammenditites in the bed and the right mulch. You are right-the pine bark chips and nuggets move! I hate them-I also don't like the way they look-esp the larger sizes. Thats why I told you to switch to shredded hardwood mulch because it doesn't move....even in a hurricane-of which my beds have gone thru (Fran was the strongest to hit here). Sorry I didn't make myself clearer-my bad!

I also agree with going heavy on the perlite (or pumice or whatever that helps with the drainage) in the medium to help the plumerias get thru the winter w/out rotting or developing a fungus.You are right-you water more in the summer, but keep them alive during the winter. I believe that was the first thing that I said in my first post of this thread. It sounds like our weather is very similar-very hot, extremely humid summers ( where the sweat starts to roll at 9 am !!) and cooler, wet, damp winters. At that point, I have my plumerias in the grhouse, but I still want dryer medium at that point)
ok thats all I read-have to go drink coffee and get ready to go water some more-this drought is killing me! I am supposed to be on vacation and all I do is think about watering! At least 2 hours a day and it will increase as I plant more beds...I have never seen a drought like this so early in the summer. Anyone else going thru this drought?

I am dligently watering me baby plumerias through this like a good plumeria mommy!

"Will anyone dispute that Milt Pierson is a reputable expert when it comes to growing plumerias?"

Yes, I dispute it. Check out his feedback on how he runs his business: http://davesgarden.com/gwd/c/1125/ I would discourage anyone from purchasing plumerias from him. Furthermore, I would never add clay or manure to a container plant, but that is just me. I much prefer the article that I wrote: http://davesgarden.com/articles/view/45/ which was just published in the Southern California Plumeria Society Journal.

Joe, I think we just need to agree to disagree rather than to keep repeating ourselves. Can we just drop this now? I'll give you the last word than let's drop it; okay?

I do agree that the black plastic pots are ugly but functional.

Edited to add quotes.

This message was edited Jun 1, 2007 10:07 AM

MickeyAz: Beautiful picture. Makes me homesick as I had a few of those in my back yard in Hawaii. They were 15 feet tall and that is where I use to play with my kids. In Hawaii every May 1st was called "Lei Day" and we would gingerly climb the trees to pick the flowers to make leis. Gosh, I am starting to tear up....Thanks for the memory.

Loren

Lauren - you have dmail :)

Hey Chantell, thanks. I need help with the camera real bad!

*cough*
First I like to say...




















I am a Plumeria God and I have 37.563987 years of experience!
...runs quickly out the room and slams the door before anyone sees him hehe!
(o.~)

...btw nice blooms Mickey!
;=)

dear plumeria god - your plumeria mix appears to be low on the water retention scale. haha! J/K thought you could run fast enough. LOL

i love that shot. it definitely shows your plumeria goddom. the drunk squirrel is just hilarious. i want one! hehe!

dete

I don't even have words...this time....ROTFLOL