Need Ideas for a Shade Garden Spot

Help! I'm a novice gardener and need some ideas. I bought an old fixer-upper of a house about a year and a half ago. It needs lots of landscape work, and the bulk of what needs some TLC is on the north side of the house. It stays pretty moist and gets minimal sunlight. I'm planning on doing some ferns and hostas but need ideas for what type of shrubs would work well. Are there any flowering shrubs that do well in shade? Also, because the house is tall, I'd like to add a tall trellis against one wall to give some height and variety to the landscape. Does anyone have any ideas for what type of climbing vine would work well in these conditions? Preferably one that's not terribly invasive! I'm in zone 5. Thank you so much for your input!

Hi easter_lily, you are on the right track with Hosta's and Ferns, as they just love shade, I dont know how cold it gets come winter in your area, so you may have to cover things with mulch as your soil being so shadey wont get warmed up like in Part sun. I have an area just like yours as my house, faces North to South, on the north side I manage to grow Clamatis, you will have to find ones that can be grown North face(cant find the label as it took of with our winter storm) but it's pink,
Astilbe, Bergenia's, Cyclamen, Helleborus, Primula, Hypericum, Trillium's, Vinca for ground cover, FOR hight, try Mahonia, Fatsia, Digitalis come in lots of colours, Lonicera perhaps on a wigwam frame insted of trelis, and self clinging to a wall is Hydrangia Petriolaris I have one in flower right now and it's white/cream flowers and green leaf brighten up the wall, I am not too sure if you will get lots of Bulbs to grow as sometimes shade is also damp, but if it is not too damp, you could try Iris, Anemone, Ranunculus etc, dont plant all the one type of Hostas, you can get some really nice variagated leaf that are happier in shade and dont revert back to just green as can happen with too much sun, also you can get lots of different sizes, shades of green and leaf textures with your ferns ( so dont just stick to the one shape) I plant all the above in groups of 3 or 5, but spaced out, it looks better than one singly plant and in a few years time, you can split them up and fill another area that looks a bit bare, this will add more interest as well as look like you have lots of different plant, its all a matter of showing texture as well as just green or flowers in that North area. some will self seed when they are happy.
Hope this gets you started, remember, once all these really settle into the shade, they will bulk up and will look better than a dab of green here and there as it will look at first, so be patient.
WeeNel.

Wow WeeNel, those were great suggestions!!! Just wanted to add that the mulch is also good idea around the hostas for water retention and around the astilibes for same reason plus helps keep down weeds. I am in zone 4b and hostas and astilibes have done fine for me weather they have been mulched or not so easter-lily I don't think you will have any problem with those.

easter_lily-you picked the right place to ask questions. I love this site and as much as I have planted am always getting new ideas and information!
IThink you are being smart to put efforts into brightening up your shaded area. Adds so much and see results often faster than the remodeling.
Good Luck and Happy Gardening!!!

18302, thank for your comments, I agree about the shade plants, sometimes they do grow better than others in full sun, I luckily dont have to mulch over much here in Scotland UK, and as West scotland where I live, has a damper climate than down in England, I have to watch mulches as I have enough snails and slugs, that I could feed the French till the end of time and in the shade as you will know, they just have a midnight feast every night of the week, I dont use chemicals, either, so most mulches seem to give them even more damp, dark hidding places, but maybe because I throw buckets of compost over my beds at the end of the season that does the same job, the only thing I would add about mulches is that you have to watch you dont put it too close to living stems as I have found it CAN cause stem rot.
Like you also, I have been gardening for many years and am still learning, this site gives me even more help as everyone throws in all different ideas and you soon find one that suits your own needs, everyone is so friendly as most gardeners are anyway, but they never seen to be critical in the answers, just so full of encouragement, that is all someone needs to get started really. so happy gardening to you also.
WeeNel.

WeeNel-Excellent point about being careful to not mulch too close to the stems. I keep mine about inch away or more depending on the plant. the downside of the mulch is that it encourages the snails even more and they really like being around hostas in particular. Are some home remedies with no spreading harmful chemicals such as putting beer in a little tuna can, and now a few products out that are environmentally friendly such as Sluggo. Watering earlier in the day seems to help a bit as snails love the damp and only come out at night.

Agree that people on this site are so friendly and encouraging as well as helpful.
What a winning combination!

Hi 82302, I have tried everything I know to get rid off slugs and snails, lets start with the bear traps, yip, they loved it, had a party and crawled home, put down porrage oats, had no effect, tried salt, nothing, dont fancy continueing with that as it is not good in the garden in large doses, crushed up egg shells and laid around the plants, got constipated eating all them eggs, but still found plants eaten, Then had a go at empty orange and grapefruit half skins placed upside down, did find some snails and sluge in the morning, after three days, the seagulls came and took the skins away, I have been told that for pots, put copper tape around the base about half inch from the bottom, it is said they get an electric charge from that and go else where, prob onto my veg patch knowing my luck. then cut copper pipeing into rings and then lay them around your plants, just great idea IF you win the lottery and get shares in the copper factory (THINGS like that are expensive here) with a garden the size that I have, I could peob light up Las Vagas, SOOOOOOO, the best cure I can find is, go out in the dark with a torch, a large bucket of hot water and a pair of gloves, hand pick the slugs and snails and drop them in the bucket, I can get hundreds that way, but you know what, their relatives seem to think it is a challenge and come for a visit to my garden, so I guess there is just no end to the fertility program these things are on.
I try to keep an eye on any newly planted things like hostas, delphiniums and lupins etc, once they get nice big stalks the problem aint so bad, maybe because the weather has warmed up a bit, also I am now a bit fanatical about garden hygene and try not to leave large stones or bits of wood, leaf cuttings etc laying around where they seem to hide under.
I honestly dont think we will ever get rid of these things, but it sure makes my day when I get a few hundred a week in a bucket and dispose of them with glee. Oh yeh another thing I found that helps, I now put my bird feeders closer to my vulnerable plants and I can hear the thrushes and blackbirds hammering the snail shells on a stone to eat the contents, so I suppose it is a mixture of whatever works for you, but it is an on going fight. I have also read recently that there is a nemotode (IF THATS HOW YOU SPELL IT) you water it onto your garden and these tiny things bury into the slugs and snails and stop them produceing the slim so that kills them, dont know anyone who has tried it yet.
Hope you can come up with something friendly that will help.
Happy snail hunting. WeeNel.

Another good shade plant is Soloman's Seal. I have a variegated one and I love it.

I haven't tried nematodes yet but have read a lot about them. It's a biological control that pretty effectively takes care of fleas, fire ants, june beetles and snails/slugs by boring into the larvae and reproducing while dining on the offenders. On the upside it seems they leave earthworms and other beneficial insects alone. Am considering ordering some for my garden. Did research online and they'll send you a sponge that you submerge in water when you're ready to use them, then you water into the ground. $15-$24 is the price range I've seen so far. Under the microscope they look like tiny worms. Here, let me quote my 'earth-wise guide to fire ants and fleas' : "Nematodes (Steinernema carpocapsae) are small round worms that attack fire ant larvae, termites, various beetles, weevils, armyworms, cutworms, chafers, webworms, borers, maggots, fleas, ticks, fungus gnats, to name a few. Steinernema carpocapsae uses an "ambush" strategy as they wait for an insect host to move by, and therefore work well against pests that are moving around on the soil surface. They work best when applied to moist soil at dusk."

Happy hunting!

WeeNel, I'm afraid to ask. What's the torch for? What do you do with the bucket once it's teeming with the bad guys? I've heard of people digging up grubs and setting them on the lawn in an aluminum pan for a bird buffet.

i was trying to scan this really quickly....but i don't think i noticed coleus being said ....if so sorry for the repition....but they give lots of color and many varieties

I have to say...this is AMAZING. Thanks to all of you who have replied. I know, I know...the internet has been around for awhile, but this is my first time ever posting anything on a forum. Now I see why people become addicted!

Thanks, especially to WeeNel and 81302 who have already contributed so much to this topic. I'll have to print this out and do some more detailed research on some of the plants you listed. I am familiar with a few of them but not all.

Since many of you seem interested, you might be glad to hear that I finally broke some ground today and started planting a few things. This is truly a major "break through" because I've been in the planning stage for a year and a half. I'm trying to do little chunks of the landscaping at a time, but I am such an avid perfectionist that even those little chunks are taking a substantial amount of time. However, I am learning that I need to just get planting, and I can always dig up later and rearrange what I don't like. It's all a wonderful learning experience, and I'm so thankful for those of you who are eager to use your expertise to help novices like me.

By the way, aren't nematodes those pests that completely digested SpongeBob's subaquatic pineapple house??? :) Can you tell I have preschool aged children? (WeeNel, in case you're not familiar with SpongeBob, he's a rather strange but amusing cartoon character. Not sure if he's spanned the globe yet or not.)

Hi Again Bunsengirl, sorry, the torch is a fashion thing, this is what we do for entertainment in Scotland, Ha,Ha,Ha, only kidding, I need the torch because the best time to go search for my snails and slugs is when it is getting dark and as I get cought up in this, it is pitch black by the time I am finnished, it is a blessing for me that I dont have any neighbours, or It would be like, "one flew over the cookoo's nest".
What I do with the bucket is, take it into the wooded area and the early bird gets the biggest feast, or any other animals that are having a party that night, if it is bad weather, I just cover the bucket and empty it in the morning, I do feel bad about the slugs and snails, but hey, I also get satisfaction that my plants are able to grow.
We dont have the same bugs that you have, like termites are very rare, however we have beatles like wood worm that is normaly found in old furniture and can spread to the home if imported, but, that is in OLD, neglected houses and not found in the garden, but we do have hundreds of garden bugs, it is sorting out the good guy's from the bad, My late dad who, (without me knowing) tought me gardening, he used to say that if something moved fast, it is friend, if it crawls along at a snails pace, it is foe, too stupid to get out the way, except worms.
I know that some people put the bugs out on the lawn for the birds, but believe me, these snails and slugs have some kind of sucker on the underside and can crawl up windows, so unless you have a cover on the container, they will escape and find a new spot to feast long before the birds sing the dawn song, but it is a good idea for them that it works for, much better than throwing chemicals about like a man with no arms. hope all this helps in the bug war. WeeNel.

Easterlily, just happy to help, so, go, go, go. You can always find the name of plants IF you have the Latin or Botanical name, some people call plants by a different name localy, but world wide, the Latin/botanical name is the same everywhere, so are easy to trace, for instance, Aquilegia is known in UK as Grannies Bonnets, (because of the shape of the flower being simmilar to old fashioned Grandmothers hats) so if you are looking for Aquilegia, everywhere you go, it will be known as that, purist's ofcourse will say it is from the Columbine family, but ordinery gardeners dont go THAT deep into it.
If it helps, when I have a whole bed to plant, I take all my plants out to the bed, put them into groups of 3 or 5, then litterly drop them into the position that I think looks OK, step back and if I dont like that combination or colour where I placed them, then I just step back into the bed and change them around. Plants are a bit tougher than you think, so a gentle drop from say knee high wont do them any harm and it is quicker than trying to place them one at a time, it becomes like painting by numbers (if you ever did that as a child) always remember to leave enough space between the plants as they will spread out in a couple of years, AND, have some growing to do this year, if they dont fill out as you expected, keep your labels and you can always go back and get another few of the same to fill the space as you wanted.
Not heard of Sponge Bob yet, but I will ask the Grand kids if they know him, they live in another area of Scotland, so sometimes get channels and programs that we dont get here in the West.
For trying to trace the plants you dont know, go to your local librery
and find a good gardening book, one that has pictures as well as infomative info, then you can look up the index and find the plant and pos a picture, I bet you will recognise more than you think, that also saves you buying expensive gardening books that prob are not the right ones for you, the dont come cheep, also try some OLD book stores, (second hand) I have picked up some real beauties that way, almost as adictive as gardenig it's self.
Most important, dont get stressed, take your time and just enjoy, plants that are suitable for shade can be delayed going into the ground much longer than ones that require sun, so long as you give them a drink if they look like they are drying out. Happy gardening, maybe you can post a photograph of your hard work and then you will get lots of extra points and maybe even a badge eh. I'm proud of you.
Good luck, WeeNel.

Hi pepper23, sorry I am just getting back to you now, I really love Solomon Seal, you are right, it would be good in Easter lilies shadeded garden area, AND add some delicate hight, I never think it is used enough, it is as tough as old boots, maybe because it look delicate puts people off, or it's drooping habbit, I have the common one, I knew there was a verigated one but have never seen it growing, your so lucky, I have also seen a picture of one with pink flowers, now that would be a real stunner eh, I dont even know of a nursery that grows the verigated one or the pink flowered one, I dont mind buying by post, any idea's.
WeeNel.

lol. I just bought my soloman's seal a few weeks ago. I have a new bed that is gonna be made around a huge maple tree and I am putting it in there. I have no idea what color flowers it will have on there. In that same bed I will also be putting in Downy Skull Cap, Red Cardinal flower, Pewter lace fern and Jap painted fern- Silver Falls. The jap fern though is green so it may not be what the tag says it is. Oh well. It's a fern and it will work. lol. I will be putting hosta in there too but won't buy any til the bed is made so I can see how many I will need.

Hi Pepper23, I think your bed ia going to be really great, as you know all these plants do so well under the dapple shade of trees, in there natural habitat, thats where they grow anyway, or sometimes under overhanging rocks where it is kept moist, someone once said that nature it's self cannot be matched, and man should'nt even try, but hey, we do our best eh, the enjoyment is sometimes better than the results, but we dont give up. The only point I would make in your situation under a large tree, is, dont plant too close to the actual trunk, come forward a couple of feet if you have the room as the ground around the trunk will be as dry as old bones and unless you can put tons of leafmould, or rich compost into the plant holes, (IF you can get the spade of fork into it) the soil could be too dry for the plants of your choice, but hey, maybe you know that already eh, good luck with your project, me thinks we should have some real nice pictures comming from you AND easter lily, look foreward to that.
WeeNel.

We are making a raised bed around the tree. It's getting to be a pain to mow over the roots so my dad said get some plants for a new bed there. lol. I did and now we are waiting on it to dry out before picking up the dirt and brick. I will have to work the dirt though when I get it. I want to get rid of any pesticides that might be in there or anything else that will make it hard for the plants to grow.

Hey, everybody. Is anyone still watching this thread? If so, thanks again for all the suggestions. Pepper23, thanks for mentioning Solomon's Seal. I wasn't familiar with it, but I looked it up and think it's a very interesting plant. Have fun with your tree bed! WeeNel, if you're still out there...I looked up many of your suggestions last night, too. I particularly liked cyclamen. Have you grown much of this and if so, how does it fare? Also, I liked the mahonia because I desperately need some shrubs in this shaded area. I have a lot of perennial options but I'm still not sure what types of evergreens and deciduous shrubs will work well. Does anyone know if dogwood shrubs can stand mostly shade??? I love the red-twig versions for the winter interest, but don't know if they'll work in this spot. Also (yes, one more question...thanks for your patience!), I have a gorgeous big blue hosta growing in a mostly sunny spot. Will it be even bluer if I plant it in the mostly shaded spot? Some of the leaves look a little mottled. Thanks again for any help!

The hosta should be even bluer in the shade I think. I have one also that will be blue and it was in the sun but I moved it into the shade. Made a new bed of nothing but hostas. lol. Only 3 of them. LOL.

Hi Easterlily, your SHRUB dogwood will do really well in the shade, to keep the stems as the atraction, you will need to prune them as it is the NEW wood that gives them that red, yellow or cream glow to the stems, they flower also, but it is the coloured stems that most people grow them for and the later leaf and flowers are an added bonus, find them under the CORNUS name, there are also many (tree's) in that family and the one I favour, is CORUS CONTROVERSA (VARIEGATED) as it's habbit is like a wedding cake, in tiers, covered in white flowers, however, the tree types need a bit of sun and drier conditions.
MY CYCLAMEN grow in the shade under tree's so I guess they do get better light than full shade, however, the trees have no leaf when the Cyclamen are on show, they prefere drier soil, however, as you only just about cover the corms (VERY SHALLOW) I add grit and some sand to the planting hole to help with drainage and the corms are not sitting in really wet soil, they seem to be OK with that, however, I planted the more hardy type, dont remember the names now as they have been left in the ground for years now and they seed about the area, in fact at one point I had to dig some up and pass on to friends, they like some leaf mould after flowering around them but NOT ON THE CORMS.
Your Hosta's will thank you for the move to the shade, as Pepper said, the colours come stronger, the variegated ones keep their markings and stripes and ones with larger leaves grow better too.
I am about to do the same as Pepper and make a Hosta bed, where this is, it gets late sun, I am thinking of putting heavy duty black pollythene bottom of the bed and make a few holes for dranage but it will keep the soil more damp, so I hope it turns out OK, I have all my hosta's scattered around the garden in pots because of the snails and slugs but they are bursting out of the pots and I have to CARRY water to them, so fingers crossed, I will be on snail and slug search with my torch, AGAIN, to give the Hosta's half a chance when they are moved to new bed, OH why do I keep telling people to just enjoy the gardening, YEH I Know, because I love it, and the chalenge.
Keep in touch and let us know how you are doing,
Just remember that because you are choosing plants for shad, you will still need to feed them every so often, if pos, with a covering of mulch at the winter feed time.
Good luck Easterlily, it all sounds good to me, real proud of you for doing all your research, happy planting.
WeeNel.

You have slugs and snails and I have ants. In fact I decided to put my downy skullcap in between 2 hostas, pot and all in the ground and as soon as I did the ants started attacking . I got insect spray, poured it for all the good it did, lol, and pulled it back out and on to the bench. Guess it's not gonna be planted for awhile. lol

Hey, again, all. WeeNel, when you say "torch" I think that you're referring to what I would call a "flashlight"? Is that right? The reason you got such a reaction to your comment about being out with a torch is that Americans picture an industrial blowtorch for welding or a raging flame on the end of a long brushy pole! :) I'm glad I just figured this out because I was beginning to think your neighbor with the ant problem got his idea for lighting the ants on fire from watching you with your torch!!! I read the ANTS!!! conversation and your hilarious anecdote. I too read through that whole thread in amazement. It was like a novel. I just have to say that I'm sorry the grits solution didn't work out, I was really hoping to try that out on some poor unsuspecting ants!

Happy planting, everyone!

Eaterlily, yes you are right, our flashlights are called torches, we personaly have one of your blowtorches that burn the weeds etc, but we call that a flame gun, I have to be careful when I visit the USA as the frazes and saying do sometimes cause a few raised eyebrows, but that is for a more adult program, I often have a blush redder than any flower, believe me,
Happy gardening. WeeNel.

LOL!! I thought it was an actual torch too! I was loving that idea. Gonna burn you so you can't come back and ruin my garden. LOL

You must be a red-head to be able to blush like you are saying. It's usually red heads that blush real bad. lol

Yeah, when you said you go out a night with a bucket and a torch looking for enemies, I pictured you with this huge branch, cloth wrapped around the end, dipped in pitch all ablaze. Indiana Jones style.

I thought to myself, "Wow. This person is SERIOUS about slugs and snails!!!"

The pic is a Blue Star morning glory. This is my first year starting anything from seed and these were the only flowers I started from seed. Good pic so I thought I'd share. ;)

This message was edited May 24, 2007 3:00 PM

That looks great!! I have a clematis I need to plant but can't figure out where. Then I have another that my neighbor's puppies dug up twice and now it isn't looking good. I hope I don't lose it cause it has white double blooms.

Hey, bunsengirl. I love morning glories! They're pretty prolific, so even I have been able to grow them!!! Great photo, too. You've got a good eye.

You know, I hadn't thought of it before, but with a name like "bunsen," I understand why you were especially curious about the flaming torch! :) I don't suppose you're related to the guy who invented the Bunsen burner, are you?

(In case you're wondering...yes, I AM a nerd.)

Good luck with your clematis, Pepper!

Science nerds UNITE! No, not related, but have a biochem degree. My oldest cat's name is Bunsen. The other one was supposed to be Beaker but it never stuck. She was a Baby Girl from day one. I actually grew up in Indianapolis but all of my gardening knowlegde came later (not that extensive, I promise!!). My mother likes fake plants because they're impossible to kill. And my Dad just loves his lawn.

Oh, and the morning glory is Heavenly Blue, not Blue Star. Currently starting deep crimson Scarlett O'Hara morning glories for a back trellis I just built.

Hi! I'm late to the thread and a bit too add to read the whole thing. Did anyone mention toad lilies? They extend my bloom season since they bloom in the fall for me. There are also some great new ones like Tricyrtis murazaki that have golden foliage and can really light up a shady area.
As for shrubs, I like Itea virginica Little Henry. It does tend to like to spread out a bit, but has lovely white flowers in the spring.
Bev

Hi All, this shade garden question sure has opened up a whole new dimention to friendly gardening eh, love it, that morning glory looks stunning, well done, hope this gives you the confidence to grow more things from seed, it gives such pleasure and satisfaction to know you did that from a tiny little seed so good luck with many more packets of seed, as regards to the Clemetis being dug up by the puppy, over here, it is a good idea to plant your Clemetis about 3/4 inches deeper than it was in the pot you bought it in, as these are prone to stem wilt for no reason (no on knows the reason) deeper planting means that if this happens, then the following year, it will throw up new shoots, also they like sun on the stems (wood) to flower, they also like a cool root run, so when I plant mine, I always place a large stone over the planting hole, this keeps the roots cool, (keeps dogs, cats or squirells away) watch you dont go too close to the stem and break it, leave a few inches from stem, they also dont like any root disturbance, so when you tidy the ground, the stone helps prevent any root damage, hope this helps you all.
No not quite a RED HEAD, but a touch, now too old so the blond comes from the bottle, yeh, and blonds do have more fun, well in my garden anyway, it would make a Saint blush if I were able to discribe what I had asked for in the store on a visit to the states when my kids were much younger, keep you guessing, right.
Happy gardening to you all.
WeeNel.

You went from red to blonde? That's not right!! LOL. You should have kept dying it red. Red heads are allowed to have more fun than everyone else no matter the age.

Well it's too late for the red head now, the grey started to sprout like topsy, so I took a mad turn and gradualy lightened the hairdo, but guess what, my favourite colour izzzzzzz, RED, wardrobe full of it, especially summer, if my husband gives me a gift, even if he has no clue as to womans thoughts, he goes for red and that gets him his gold star for effort, garden too has lots of red, but that has to be calmed down a shade with creams purple pinks etc, so you can have fun as you said with red, me think we are changing channels here as we were trying to sort out a shade border, or was that last week, oh dear, I've taken on the dumb blond mode now or perhaps my channel changer needs new batteries, happy gardening to you all, keep the laughter comming. Weenel.

LOL!!!