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I am pleased with the changes. I would still be happy to have the regional forums closed, but I am pleased that Dave has thought this though so carefully. He obviously is dealing with "just the facts, mame, just the fact" while I am dealing with my emotional needs. Patti

Patti,

I believe Dave has closed all the regional forums.

Hi Dave,
May I add a request for consideration ? I really enjoy the Journals forum and realize there is the option of making entries "private". To do so would, as I understand, restrict access of those selected to everyone. My feeling is that since the Diary and Journal features contain information which is of a more personal, rather than general gardening nature, it would be appropriate to add it to the 'subscriber only' category.
Perhaps it is a subject that others might have opinions on also. Thank you.

I'm not sure about others, but I use both my Journal and Diary for "mass communication", so to speak, with Dave's Garden members, Dave's Garden subscribers, and completely non-DG using friends of mine (in the hopes they will eventually at least become members). If these areas were to become subscriber-only I would lose the ability to do that.

Example: When I want a mix of people to see a group of photos I create/update a diary tab, post a single message to a new thread with the link, and send a single regular email to the non-DG users - also with the link.

This keeps the number of photos and the amount of data being sent across various servers to the minimum amount of traffic. I like to be conservation-minded, even when it comes to things like server bandwidth usage.

Just my 2¢ worth ☺

--Ginny

Wow, those are good changes Dave!

With regards to Journals/Diaries, there is currently only two options for the privacy factor:
"No, please don't let anyone see my journal"
"Yes, I want others to be able to see my journal"

It would be nice if there were another option such as allowing only fellow subscribers to have access to a person's Journal and Diary. I'm starting to use my Journal more and don't feel comfortable with everyone at large being able to see it but would still like DG Subscribers to be able to have a look.

Don't know if that's possible, but worth a shot, lol.

Tks,
Erynne

Well, there might be one group of lurkers gone: Spouses of paying members. My wife came to me yesterday and said, "I can't get anywhere on Dave's on my computer." I told her the new rules. She replied, "how do I remove it from my favorite places?" And she also said, "Don't bother mentioning anything going on there, I'm not interested if that's what he's done."
Frankly, without her to discuss posts or tell her posts to look at, I doubt I'll hang out here much either.
Harold

Harold, I know it's not the same but there are other couples and families that share memberships and sign their posts as themselves. I do understand all the lines of thinking. I also know there are people that would like to post pictures and post messages with a bit less worry over who is reading them or seeing them.

Even though it may be a false sense of security, those of us with kids and collectors plants that like to post a lot, kind of worry that we are pretty much pinpointing exactly where we are and exactly where you can find "the goods". I can't really hide where I am as I have a business and sell online.

I know it does not happen often, but I have heard of things going missing after someone posted a photo of the *prized* plant or item.

I hope both of you will reconsider and enjoy all the things that are offered here. Friendship is the biggest prize to be had.

Harold, this is a case where you can make some people happy some of the time, but you can't make all the people happy all the time.

The members overwhelmingly voted to close off those forums to subscribers only. It wasn't a decision made by me.

Dave

Harold - certainly hope this doesn't keep you or you wife off DG.

I know people in the same family that have their own subscription and some that share. Requiring subscriptions to have access to some forums certainly isn't out of line, this is a business after all, but I hope that doesn't give people a false sense of security

Maybe we can have a family plan like the cell phone companies.

Dave said on June 8: "The members overwhelmingly voted to close off those forums to subscribers only. It wasn't a decision made by me."
Yet above on April 27, in this same thread, Dave said: "In brief, the decision is ours to make and we can do whatever we want to do." Which is it Dave?

Does anyone actually think having to pay $20 a year for access to your information would keep "bad people" from doing so? Then I've some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in. Harold

HaroldS, what's the problem of your wife using your "name" on Dave's? Others do it. Dotti

Edited to add: She can always sign her post as herself.

This message was edited Jun 8, 2007 11:36 AM

I don't think Dave was actually shifting blame or anything, just stating, that after loads of members requested only subscribers be allowed on certain forums, he implemented it.

I also don't think anyone is that naive. We just feel better knowing that everything we post, won't show up on a google search.

I'm sorry you are so angry. I've met lots of nice people that are not subscribed and it's sad that they will not have access unless they subscribe. It sounds like there was a majority request and you can see that above in the posts. Dave is a webmaster that cares and wants people to be happy.

Badseed said: "We just feel better knowing that everything we post, won't show up on a google search."
Sorry to destroy your illusions, but I just googled "Badeed" on my wife's computer (not a paying member, remember?) Guess what?
I could access every post you've started. So much for that dream. Harold

Actually you can only see the first post, none of the replies and you can't post a reply. Anyone that has been a member for any time at all, knows not to put much in the first post.

Now I am wondering why you are so angry at me??

There are plant specific newsgroups all over the web.
Since some people are angry that they can no longer access the forums proves that Davesgarden is worthwhile. If it had nothing to offer above the average newsgroups, then no one would be angry about the change. They would just shrug and move on to a newsgroup. As a subscriber, I am really getting annoyed that the non-paying members or spouses thereof want to put a guilt trip on all of us subscribers.
I don't feel badly about the change. I don't care if it is secure or not. That is not my reason for paying to belong. I pay because I think you get what you pay for, again something proven by the change.
Some people who were paying subscribers left and just joined the free regional forum and had all the advantages of subscribers there and even planned get togethers (round-ups). I found that a little nervy Using a paid subscriber funded site for your own gain while paying absolutely nothing for the use
Now those are things I would be find something to be upset about.
Trying to make people who pay to be here feel bad about someone who doesn't pay to be here having less, is ridiculous.

I just wish everybody would get along.....maybe it's the heat?

Windy,
You took the words right out of my mouth.

I've even seen comments in a few forums, where we were called "snobs" for wanting to close some forums off to non-subscribers.

Anyone ever hear the old expression "why buy the cow, if you can get the milk for free"? I know it's been used in a less than ..ahem..polite way-but I think it applies in this situation.

I chose to buy the cow-now I can enjoy the milk. And I don't feel one bit guilty.

I know there are those who have financial reasons for not joining, and I will be the first one in line to pump up the Angel Fund, when it needs it.

My parents were extremely old-fashioned (makes sense, since I'm older than dirt) and taught me from a young age that there are no free rides.
I tried to pass it on to my sons-but, somehow a lot of people seem to feel differently about that, anymore.

Not me. I still believe "There are no free rides".

Sasha

Hear! Hear! This site is worth every penny of the subscription fee and more. And what is $20.00? Here in Oregon, it is just over 4 packs of cigarettes, and probably not much more in drinks from a
bar. It's less than 3 packs of beer. Which is more important to you? Dotti

Edited to add: And it's not a whole lot more than $1.50 per month!

This message was edited Jun 8, 2007 2:25 PM

Another tempest in a teapot folks. Get it together and go plant something. Things are growing, try planting the seeds of tolerance and understanding.

Dear Dave and Terry and all of DG Staff...

I love this site, as do so many of our Southwest Gardening Forum friends. If you'll look at our SW Gardening forum thread regarding the changes, you will see a lot of support, but also, some sadness. I don't think anyone has an issue with closing down the threads to subscribers only, but so many people didn't know about the change (I didn't, I don't typically read these threads)... so, so many felt "cut off at the knees" with no notice. Our SW Gardening forum is (and has been) one of the most active forums, and because they had no notice, many of our non-subscribers are looking elsewhere, and even our subscribers are as well. Perhaps if the forums that were affected had been notified, and given a time frame for subscription, then this whole change would not be wreaking havoc (if only in my home forum). I lurked before joining, and I probably wouldn't have joined if I had not been given the opportunity to read and *experience* what goes on here. Again, I don't mind paying for a subscription, I'm on year two now of my subscription, but to not notify the affected forums in advance, (and multiple times)... well, it ain't good. Please try to do some damage control. I can truly empathise with my friends who absolutely were shocked to wake up, tune in, and find that they were shut out. Not everyone reads "this" forum... (the "Dave's Garden" Forum)... many of us just read our local threads. I hope you can find a way to a more diplomatic and less "segregating" option. And I truly hope that so much damage to those who would have been happy to join had they known in advance isn't irreparable.

IMHO

Brenda

This message was edited Jun 8, 2007 9:37 PM

This message was edited Jun 8, 2007 9:39 PM

p.s. Even today, with the loss of many of our contributors (not because the wouldn't have joined, but because they didn't know they had a deadline for joining), we had over DOUBLE the posts of the Mid-Atlantic forum. To reiterate, we wish we had been better informed.

bsavage, this has been discussed since a lot of forums were opened up to non subscriber view, including when some of the regional forums were created. Some of the regional forums were subscriber only and some were public. This request has come to Dave many times, it wasn't just something that was brought up this week or even April 27 when Critter started this particular thread. It's not an idea that was born recently, it's been a topic of conversation for a long time--nearly two years I believe.

The only reason SW Gardening wasn't subscriber only before now is because of when it was requested to be created. Had it been created a year before it was, it would have been subscriber only all along.

If you have someone who really can not afford the price of subscription, the Garden Angel fund is there, all you need to do is make a request, and if they can they'll grant it.

Here are just a few threads you can read where it was discussed.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/525849/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/711463/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/607375/

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/489738/




This message was edited Jun 9, 2007 1:27 AM

Hi Melissa_Ohio... yes, we are all aware of those threads now, but weren't until the change. We've been happily puttering around in our own little SW Gardening world... had we (any of us) been aware of the discussions, I'm sure no one would be surprised or "caught off guard" now. Thanks for the links... This will teach us to pay attention to other areas of DG!!

Brenda

This particular forum is an important one to pay attention to, this is where people will bring up suggestions like proposing new forums or improvements to the site which you can share your opinion on, or if Dave's thinking of something and wants people's thoughts on it those will get posted here. Definitely a good one to put on your favorites list, I think if you don't watch this forum you'll miss a lot of stuff.

Brenda,
I understand exactly what you are saying In fact, I communicated the same concern to the DG staff. It's not that the Mid South forum or any other forum is going subscriber only, but there was no notice and some people just suddenly found themselves cut off. IMO a notice in the form of a sticky on the forums that would be made subscriber only and a short grace period of a week or so for people to be prepared would have been a thoughtful gesture.

Personally I have always been a subscriber and actually thought the Mid South forum already was for subscribers only. So my concern has no bearing on whether or not it was a good idea, only the way it was implemented by the staff, of whom I hold in the highest esteem & respect.

Loretta

How about we re-open the regional forums for exactly a week, then close them down to subscribers only again? That will give folks time to do what they are going to do.

Dave

Sounds more than fair to me. You do a great job of trying to please all of us and I marvel at your patience some days.

I couldn't agree with you more Edens_Gardener.

You rock Dave :)