Landscaping with dogs II

Decided it was time to start a new thread to let everyone know how the chickenwire is working to keep the dogs from digging up and destroying my new plants. I have now planted 6 raspberries, 6 blackberries, 5 rosebushes, and 2 shrubs without the dogs bothering them. I have chicken wire on the ground and around the plants. From a distance the wire isn't even visible.

Warning: I decided to use some bone meal for fertilizer and ran across this recent thread that mentions dogs can go crazy over the smell and destroy your flowerbeds. Here's the link. Good info. and advice.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/695708/

that's great news that the chicken wire is working.

Good to know!

We've finally buckled down and hired a landscaper! lol! What were doing is pee gravel, mulch, some flag stones and we're actually laying sod... which is going to be surrounded by an invisible fence, so we'll see how that works! That way, the dogs have the entire outside to run around and we'll have the green area in the middle! Like a Tootsie Pop! The dogs get the hard outside and we get the soft, chewy middle!

So if we find that we can afford to actually plant anything this year, I'll be keeping the chicken wire idea in mind!

That's great news and sounds like a sensible solution. If you can later post some pics, that would be nice.

We're in the middle of a thunderstorm and the pups are lying around pouting. The pine needle mulch has kept the yard from getting muddy and the grass has been really growing nicely where there are no paths.

We don't have a digital camera--yet! Until then, I won't be able to post any pictures unless I scan them. I'll try to get around to posting some before summer's end. Right now, we're in the midst of painting the exterior of our house, so I can't do much landscaping until the painting is finished. The painter already accidently trampled a flower bed. The good news is that the dogs have really taken to our painter & pass the time watching him.

Planted to date:
shrubs: 6
raspberry canes: 6
blackberry canes: 6
rosebushes: 7
Number damaged by dogs: none

However, I do have my suspicions about 1 particular rosebush that isn't leafing out like the others. I've caught the male dog relieving himself on it twice. I'm going to put up some type of barrier to keep the urine off the rosebushes. That'll be my next project.

What grass is left is extremely lush and green. Lately, the dogs have been spending more time lying around in the grass chewing on their bones. Lets see what it looks like when the temperature heats up and the rain slacks off.

I have been encircling the new shrubs with a section of 3' high chicken wire cut to about 5' in length. I fold this piece in half to have a section 1.5' high and fasten the two ends together with wire to have a cage that sits right over a shrub. I take 5' long stakes to keep the cages in place.

I'll be hauling in the wood chips on Friday. I'm still waiting on the bamboo plants and a buttonbush. I have 3 azaleas to set out and another rosebush. Things are coming along as planned. I can't plant the azaleas though until the painter is finished on that side of the house. We're painting it Behr's sapphireberry.

wow -- have you been busy!

I'm in the process of planting my many seedlings -- and the ground it like concrete... I can't wait for the rain that is "supposedly" on the way.

You're ground is like concrete? Ours is waterlogged. I was afraid that it would be too wet to work with. This area must have gotten a lot more rain than up north. I'm a bit behind with my vegie garden. I'm hoping to get a little bit planted each evening -- weather permitting.

I'm having such a time getting anything done. My lil' gr-d is going thru a defiant stage. She deliberately let all 3 dogs out right under our noses (so sneaky), & we've just finished rounding them up. The neighborhood kids were so freaked out. I hope that we don't get any complaints. We live on the same block with a cop, state trooper, the mayor, & alderman. The dogs didn't even pay attention to the kids. They were having too much fun running free. I lured them home with their favorite squeaky toy and some McD french fries.

tc1366: What are you planting? Varieties? Did you start from seed?

I started most from seeds - though i did get some hostas, ground cover, astilbes, heurchas, and a few others.

seeds -->
here is 99% of what i've done. there may be a few more that i forgot to update.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3280393

tcs1366,
Thanks for sending me the link to your list. I'm impressed. You must have quite a setup. I'm going to be checking out the "winter sowing" forum. I didn't realize that some of those flowers could be started successfully by seed. It just so happens that I've been contemplating filling in around the shrubs with perennials and also using them in borders where I currently use annuals. I have got a nice bed of purple coneflowers from just a few bare root plants that I planted several years ago. They really multiply. I do have to protect them from the dogs, so they're inside my vegie garden fence. Since the dogs are confined to the backyard, I do have beds in front and both sides of our house that the dogs can't get to. I just checked out a libary book on perennials. I'll have to look up the flowers on your list. If they grow in your zone, they should be fine here.

I'm also wanting some astilbes & heurchas. I can't decide whether to take a chance with Wal-mart's plants or go with Bluestone Perennials.

Betty : )

there was a thread on walmart Heucheras... and it seems they only tend to carry Purple Palace.

I got 1 from Hallson's (peppermint spice) and after a few days it has perked right up.
I have 3 purple puddings coming from Bluestone, hopefully by weeks end.

My daughter lives in San Jose CA and owns a townhouse with a very small back yard. She is in the planning stage of redoing her backyard. It will be done in stages.
Year 1 is to be this year: redoing the side yard which has a southern exposue and is the only outside entry to the backyard. Appx. size is 10ft x 5ft.
Year 2 next year: Get a dog. This is the area she would like to be able to leave the dog when she gets one. It will be a mid size dog probably male, the breed is still in the deciding stage. Anyway is there a ground cover that would take the wear and tear of a dog and still be scoopable? The dog will be mostly an inside dog. I am trying to talk her into decomposed granite, stepping stone path and potted plants. I have read the postings on the other dog/landscaping thread, and feel that would be the best, is there any other solution? Would there be a problem with a urine smell? The area will be scooped as the poop happens.
Year 3 two years from now tear down the wood deck which has termites and a skunk living under it. That area would be planted in ground cover and stepping stones. Any help will be much apreciated.

The size of the dog makes a difference. I didn't have the damage to my yard and plants when I owned a cocker spaniel that I'm experiencing now with the larger dogs. With the cocker spaniel, landscaping wasn't even a challenge. The shedding indoors was my biggest complaint. The number of dogs really makes a difference. Activity level also is an important factor. The dogs I own now are constantly running through the yard. One small dog would be easier on the landscape; especially a breed that's not very active.

I like your idea of using the rock, stepping stones, and potted plants. I am moving in the direction of paved paths, but for now have wood chip paths because I have access to a free unlimited supply of wood chips only a few miles away.

I've never experienced a problem with urine smell -- just the poop. You have to keep it picked up. Just remember, the bigger the dog -- the bigger the poop. I would spend more time researching the various breeds.

I can't get over the deck with termites and a skunk living under it. I'd want to start there. Especially, before introducing the dog. Of course, everyone has different priorities. : )

I agree about the rock/gravel, anytime you have a small area that the dog's going to be in you're going to have a really hard time keeping grass or some other groundcover alive, especially in a climate like ours where there's no summer rain and grass can sometimes be hard to keep alive even without the dog's "help". I have a gravel backyard, and I do find I have to hose it down a bit from time to time to get rid of pee smell (my dog has only two spots where he'll pee, and he pees in pretty much the exact spot every time he goes, so it gets pretty concentrated in that one place). But a minute or two rinsing with the hose makes it so it's not a problem at all.

Personally I would move getting rid of the termite infested deck and the skunk into year 1, first of all termites could move from the deck into the house so I'd get rid of them ASAP. Also, while rebuilding the deck you'll have guys trampling all over, dropping pieces of lumber, etc so they're likely to do some damage to any nice landscaping that you've put in before that. And the skunk definitely needs to go before they get the dog, otherwise I guarantee they'll be sorry! Skunks will wander into yards often enough anyway, you don't need to increase the odds of an accident by having one living there!

This summer flew by. Didn't realize that it's been 3 months since I've posted on this thread. I've been busy trying to keep all my new plants well watered during an extremely hot/dry summer & also finishing up painting the exterior of the house.

I've finally decided to plant a rosa rugosa hedge along the rear chain link fence to keep the dogs from jumping on the fence when folks walk down the alley & to provide some privacy. For some reason, we have more foot traffic in the alley than on the streetside. (Maybe they're admiring my vegie garden.) Anyway, I'm busy researching vendors. I'm thinking of trying Greenwood Nursery. They have a few popular varieties sold as hedges with one order being either 5 or 10 plants. I'm going to make a lasagna bed along the fenceline this fall to ready for spring planting. I'll have to come up with a plan to keep the dogs from trampling the plants until they're established.

Here's a photo of the pack looking into the vegie garden which is off limits to dogs (cats allowed). More to follow.

Here they are waiting outside the garden gate.
Left: Daisy the foxhound
Center: Kai the pointer
Right: Rose the redbone coonhound

Under the polebean teepee. A safe haven for Mr. Kitty. Dogs can't get me here!

Rose trying to eat a rose. Darn chicken wire!

Last & most important! The unlimited supply of free woodchips. Compliments of the local utility company. Time to start hauling chips before the rainy season starts & the dog paths turn to mud.

I almost forgot. Here's the fenceline where I want to plant the rugosas. The dogs have such a great view of all the foot traffic since we're near a busy side street. They bark at everything & everyone, so I need to block their view & keep them from getting right upon the fence. I can't afford a privacy fence & figure they'd try to dissemble it anyway.

Notice that I saved my new roses by laying cinderblocks around them to keep Kai from spraying the plants. Maybe the ph was too low, because they seem to have taken off since laying the blocks; unless spraying was the problem. I have chicken wire spread out on the ground under the wood chips to keep the dogs from digging up the rosebushes. It works!

Yeah, Kai looks innocent, but get too close & he'll give ya' a tongue bath -- all over your face. : P

I'd be careful using roses to keep the dogs away from the fence--at my old house I had roses planted next to the fence (already there when I moved in) and my dog would charge the fence anyway trying to get to the dog next door, and a couple times he cut himself on the rose thorns. As he was charging the fence, he had a one track mind and didn't notice the rose thorns, and dogs aren't good at noticing pain after the fact and tracing it back to what originally caused it, so he never made the connection in his mind that it was the roses that were hurting him. So I'd use something less thorny to block their view!

Butter3fly:

It has already been suggested you get rid of that deck *before* your daughter gets a dog,
but here's another reason anyway. A my aunt-in-law has had a couple of dogs (spaniels of some kind) that like to chew on old wood. This gets slivers into their jaws(!!). Doggie dental work is NOT cheap. Other breeds of dogs also have this annoying habit. It seems to be a personality thing. That deck is a several disasters waiting to happen.

Thanks for the advice Ecrane3. Your poor puppy! I've read about the hazards of having dogs & rosebushes. I just chopped down & dug up a huge old rosebush that bordered the fenceline. It was here when we moved in 19 years ago. Though it was beautiful in bloom, I'd prefer a repeat bloomer. The former owners had let Japanese Honeysuckle grow all along the fence line. I had finally irradicated it; except for the roots that were entangled with the rosebush. Finally, I decided that to get rid of the JH I'd have to also remove the rosebush. Thing is, the dogs always avoided the area around the rosebush. So, I'm really just replacing the one that I dug up. They're not vicious dogs. Just bored & wanting attention. I've often seen someone standing at the back fence petting them.

I've been curious as to how things are going for Butter3fly. I see a new thread started by Butter3fly on 8/5/07 on the "beginner gardening" forum with no replies. Think I'll say "hi".

Excellent dense fast growing deciduous hedge with masses of small bristly thorns.

ooooh, i have to agree with ecrane on this one. dogs and thorns... no good.
My pooch has bumped into a few here and there, and gotten them in his paws... quite painful.

I'm not very experienced with shrubs... but i can tell you spirea will fill in quickly.... they too are quite dense, no thorns and do flower. i also think you can get some with various colored leaves and or flowers. I keep mine trimmed height-wise, so i do not know how tall they get.

I was jsut browsing the emails i get from wayside and they had very colorful shrubs and plants [they are quite expensive, but it can give you ideas]

Thanks for the suggestions tcs1366. I believe some of the rugosas can have some vicious thorns because I'd trimmed my Dad's hedge once when he was in the hospital. I went away looking like I'd been in a catfight. I have a nice spirea that's been in the front yard for well over 20 years. It is rather dense & hardy. I cut it to the ground one year & it grew back denser in no time. I really wanted the rugosa for the ornamental hips & because my one dog likes to eat the hips off my HTs. I'll try to find a variety that has nice hips & gentler thorns.

I recently purchased Ortho's Complete Guide to Roses that's endorsed by the ARS. This book provides nice color photos of several popular rosa rugosas; along with detailed info. I've researched several vendors online and prefer to order East of the Rockies. I've steered clear of Wayside because of their poor Garden Watchdog rating & numerous complaints. What's been your experience? I'm rather leary about ordering from this company.

i only use wayside for viewing pleasure. they are too expensive for my taste.

I know i had that Ortho Rose book somewhere, but i think i lost it in a move. *sigh* it was a great book.

good luck in your search. one of my criteria for buying roses is "low thorns" LOL. and very fragrant.

Terese

It's been a while since I have been able to check the posts, and thought you might like a follow up on my daughters San Jose backyard. The termite infested deck was removed and was replaced with a flagstone patio, and 2 raised beds in the corners. The flagstone had an assortment of stepable plants in the cracks. Well she couldn't wait any longer to get the female golden retreiver puppy who is now 8 mo old. Against advise she didn't allow enough time for rooting. So as you can image puppy found it fun to pull up the plugs and play with them. The puppy didn't like the area set aside for pooping and used it to dig a nest (look isn't it cute she is digging) , and used the one ground area she had plants in which of course burned them out. Now she has put sand between the cracks in the flagstone. And puppy has fun digging in the cracks and chewing on the irrigation wires. Oh well it's good daughter is learning how to raise an infant before she has a human infant to pratice on.

ah, aren't puppies fun. Hopefully it will be out of the digging stage soon. My pooch, at the time - would pull up all the plants i put in the ground -- i guess he was telling me it was his territory. So i quite planting in the back yard... and when he was digging holes... i filled all but one in.. and that was his hole to dig and lay in.

I'd love to see a photo of your daughters back yard, if you have one...

I did plant the rosebush hedge and all is well. First I laid down a thick layer of newspaper and covered it with wood chips. Then, I encircled each plant with heavy gauge welded wire fencing secured with steel posts. I ordered Dart's Dash (rugosa) and Rosa glauca (species) from Spring Valley Roses in Wisconsin and received premium quality plants with huge roots. I alternated planting these two along the fence and love the contrasting foliage.

Since the fencing worked for the roses, I decided to try 2 Hydrangea arborescens 'Annabelle' and a witch hazel encircling them with welded wire fence secured with steel fence posts. These were also premium plants from Moonshine Designs in Milan, IL. All are thriving despite the heavy paw traffic.

The areas of the yard that I've covered with chicken wire; such as bulb beds; have kept the pooches and squirrels from digging. The bulbs bloomed right up through the wire.

Happy fall gardening!

Dog urine is death on roses. Doesn't do a blasted thing to bamboo.

rosewynd -- i had no idea.... luckily my neighbors dog doesnt get into my Rose bed.... he did kill one of my clematis' this year... really ticked me off.

Ack, it's been nearly 30 years since I had a puppy, so I don't remember what kind of digging behaviors I had at the time. I think that the last time there was a little tike here I had 3 other dogs, adults, who likely taught her how to behave through pack behavior.

But, I've heard, heard and confirmed with my own "smartypants," that the best way to keep dogs (read: adults) from digging up the mature-ish plants you bring home from the nursery, is to make absolutely certain that you don't plant them with the dogs nearby. Keep your work out of eyesight . . . don't let them watch you. It seems that they want to bring them back out of the ground for you . . . or play with them like you did . . . or take out what you put in . . . or who knows. Many, most under these circumstances will just leave those little fluffy things alone.

I took that 8-foot space we Californian's have between our houses and the property line fence, the entire length of the house, a doggie door in the garage wall, built a slat (2X2" wood) top between the two vertical surfaces, and two end-cap fences/gates at each end of the house . . . thereby building a kennel for mine. So when I'm away I just kennel them in the garage/kennel and they are protected from the elements by Star Jasmine atop the kennel. And, since my house is a corner lot and I was worried about the dogs having access to the street-side of the lot, visible to people walking by, vulnerable, locking them up in a space in which they can run and are not visible from the street leaves me feeling that they are safer, if that makes sense. Aaaaaah, more than anyone is likely to want to know. ☺ Aaaaanyway . . . .

The poodle list I've been on since 1999 continually validates the cautionary statement as true. It likely won't make a difference with all dogs, but it seems to with many.

Here's a pic of the entrance to the kennel . . . ☺

My best,
Linda