seedlings..when to transplant?

Okay..I need some time frames on this seed planting stuff. I planted the seeds in those 72 hole plastic seed trays. They germinated. They were getting tall so I took the plastic lids off. They are getting spindly, they have 2 sets of leaves (1 real set) so is it time to transplant into little cups? Then do I put them back under the lights or just on a table top in a warm bright room? I read where you don't fertilizer till the 2nd real leaves start.
Thanks for any help

I was in the same boat as you. I say was, because I managed to kill all my seedlings off, so now I don't have to worry about when to transplant. My main problem was I planted many different things in a seed starter kit. All the veggies sprouted quickly and got too tall to keep the lid on....the herbs I planted had just sprouted and were tiny. So, I thought I should transplant the veggies so I could keep the lid on for the herbs....half the veggies I transplanted into little cups didn't survive the transplant. The ones that did, I made the mistake of trying to harden them off....and killed the rest. I do have one lone green pepper plant that is still alive....but not growing. I don't have lights and get only direct sunlight...I think thats why I had such a problem. From what I've heard, two sets of leaves is when you should transplant, but if everythings sprouted then just leave the lid off and maybe let them grow more....they may be tall but the root system may not be developed enough to transplant. I don't know, I hope someone gives you some good advice....I'm going to try starting more seeds, only this time I think I will just start out in little cups.....it was hard getting the plants out of those little holes.

mmock,
Not to worry. Your plants are babies and will the stems will get thicker as they grow and after fertilized. Can transplant now or wait a bit. Rule of thumb start fertilizing with half strength of general type you mix with water beginning about two weeks after plants come up and then repeat every two weeks until close to when going to start hardening them off . Keep using the lights. Move light up as plants grow so not too close to plants.
Easiest and best way to get the plant out of the little cell pack is to squeeze the lower sides of the plastic cell pack. Best not to lift from the top as hard on the plant.
If you don't get lot of responses on this thread try putting your question under beginner vegetables or beginner flowers depending what you are starting.


kls-01 Generally it is best to leave lid off as soon as things have have sprouted. Your right it is difficult if have lot of different things planted in the same cell pack as they germinate at all different times. The individual cups is ideal for that as can remove them from the covered tray as each sprouts. I have done it that way and it has worked really well.
Hardening off is done about 2 weeks before is warm enough to plant outside. Unless you are extremely lucky or planting something that tolerates fairly cold nights such as pansies it is probably a bit early for that but I am in a colder zone
so not sure when that usuall time is in your area.

81302,

Thanks for the tips! I would imagine I am quickly approaching hardening off time. April 15(I think) was the suggested last frost day for my area....but the freakish weather held that back. However, today was beautiful and its not supposed to get below freezing this week.

I have to rely on a friend to till up my garden, and I have no control on when he can get around to doing it, so a lot of times my garden gets started late. That's why I was still thinking about starting more veggies in cups....but, if it doesn't freeze any more, could I start them outside in cups?

Kristie

ksl-01
Some things might be able to start directly in garden and skip the cups totally. Radishes, carrots, leaf lettuce, spinach and peas are cool weather crops and can be planted outside right now.
Check the back of your packages for plant times. Those that are too early to plant directly yet would do best indoors as they need the warmth and many seedlings do best with the protection when starting out. Lights are ideal but a sunny window once they have sprouted will work for most things. I do it that way for peppers, tomatoes, and broccoli and also have done it for herbs with good success. A few things don't like their roots disturbed though so best directly seeded outdoors when becomes warm enough. Cilantro is one of them and seed packages don't always say that. Can also start cilantro directly in garden, just wait until warm enough. I have done it both ways. If going to start one indoors that doesn't like roots disturbed can usually have success by using the peat pots and planting pot and all or carefully peeling it off before transplanting and don't try to loosen the roots as you normally would. Contrary to advertising most gardeners I know find peat pots don't tend to degrade very well so still find them in your garden next year. Strong rooted plants such as tomatoes will grow right through them so works out fairly well if use the larger size for your second transplant.
Warm season crops such as tomatoes and peppers need it to be fairly warm before plant out. Late May, early June here. Probably about two weeks earlier in your zone but just guessing.
Any container outdoors dries out more quickly and the wind is hard on small seedlings.
Your local university extension office usually has lots of good information and can tell you more specifics for your zone.
Happy Gardening!

Thanks for all the hints! My next seedlings(hopefully) will thank you!

Kristie

Thanks for the advise you two...now I have one more question...when do I take the plants out from under the lights?

Great info everyone. I just had my first tomatoes, eggplant, and jalepanos sprout and was wondering twhen to transplant them. I planted 4 seeds per cell due to the advice of a friend (incase they not all germinated). But now I have 20 tomatoes plants! I'm afraid that they are crowding each other, but the first ones sprouted only a week ago and they are 1-2 inches tall. Pretty leggy but only one set of leaves. They've been uncovered sitting in a southwest window for a few days, but I'm not sure they will survive the move. So what do you think transplant or no?

HighC, I'd say don't transplant yet. If your seedlings are really crowded go among them with a pair of fine-tipped scissors and snip off the weaker, more spindly ones at the soil line. (Not necessarily the shortest ones!) Try to keep at least 2-3 in each cell until you start getting true leaves. Then thin out the weaker ones so that the leaves of adjacent seedlings don't touch each other. Ultimately you'll have only one sturdy little plant in a cell. When the tomato plants' stems start getting fuzzy then think about planting them into pots. The stem fuzz is nascent roots so put them into the pots with part of the stem buried. It'll make the entire plant more sturdy. End up with one pot per intended final plant and with luck that's how you'll put them in the garden!

Windowsill seldom gets enough light. See if you can afford a fluorescent light to set the seedlings under, plus a timer (easily found around Christmas!) to run the light 16 hrs a day.

My 'Brandywine' tomatoes (3 each in 2 pots, intended final total = 2 plants) have just exploded! They're touching my grow light; their roots are trailing out of the bottoms of the pots. I've transplanted them once already (HighC, I started with 4 in each of 6 cells, thinned them to 1 per cell, and then at fuzz stage I put 3 in each pot) and they're ready to transplant again. But now I have to choose which one in each pot to retain. I can plant them outdoors in about a month, so they may spend that month hardening off outside where they'll get enough light. The other plants I'll wait until about 2 weeks before I intend to plant them outdoors. They'll stay under the grow light until then and then spend the 2 weeks hardening off outside. (That means I take them indoors overnight especially if the weather guy says it'll be cold.)

When I transferred my seedlings from cells to pots I used a teaspoon to scoop the cell's contents out into my hand. I could then check the potting mix for moisture & roots and then put the little bundle into its new pot in a very controlled way. The leeks were stunned speechless and only now (what? a month later?) have started to put on a little weight. The tomatoes were jubilant and look about ready to ask to borrow the car keys.

Fertilizing: I was told that the seed contains the nutrients it needs for the seed leaves (the first set). When it starts growing the true leaves it needs nutrients in the soil. When you start adding fertilizer depends on what you're growing those seedlings in. I started watering with diluted liquid fertilizer at the 1st set of true leaves, and, well, the tomatoes are talking about shaving and meeting girls.

Carrie, Thanks for all that great info! I was planning to move the tomatoes to the greenhouse once I transplanted them, but maybe I'll move them in now to get them growing. They should have enough sun that way right? I live in the high rockies and we have full sunny days regularly this time of year 12 hours of direct light. I was just holding off onthe move because we are still getting pretty good frost at night. The greenhouse warms up real well during the day, but how will the seedlings do with potetial 25 degree night outside/50 degree greenhouse temps?


This message was edited Apr 20, 2007 11:33 AM

Have sweet william plants in pots indoors when is it safe to plant outside

You should be able to plant them outside anytime after your last frost date. Don't just take them from the house one day to full sun in the garden the next day though, you need to get them used to the additional intensity of the sunlight gradually so they don't get sunburned, take them outside for a few hours at first, gradually working them up to being in the sun all day. Same thing goes for getting them used to night time temps assuming the outside temps are considerably lower at night than it is in your house.

HighC,
Just don't let frost at your tomatoes. The plants die at 34 degrees, they don't even need frost. My 'Brandywine' tomatoes are now in my carport, we're having 70s daytime and high 50s night, but if the weatherguy says we're going to go into the low 40s I'll bring the fellas indoors. Also, don't let "out of sight" keep you from watering and fertilizing your little darlings.

Ok, so I started new seeds and they've sprouted!!! When I started them, it had been pretty nice outside, but still getting down to the 40s. So, I planted them in dixie cups and put them on a cookie sheet. I took them outside during the day and brought them in during the night until they sprouted. Now that they've sprouted, I left them out all night(last night was the first night, and they're still alive...I did move them to a protected area though, because we were supposed to get heavy rain and didn't want them knocked over or drowned). Also, I still have the one lone green pepper plant from my first attempt at starting seeds inside. It's still alive, and pretty hardy, but still very small. Its just starting to get its second set of leaves and is very short. Should I fertilize it? I know its supposed to be diluted, but how much...so many fertilizers seem to be different. Also, any hints or ideas at keeping my second batch of seedlings alive is welcome! Hopefully I won't kill these off too!

Kristie

kls_01- Congratulations! Success is always such a great feeling!
Peppers are slow growers.
Can fertilize after 1st set of true leaves are showing. Rule of thumb
is usually 1/2 strength of package recommendation on the general
kind mix with water such as MG or Schultz's. Give plants this about every 2 weeks
until start hardening off then wait about week after in ground to fertilize
again.

Ok, stupid question...are the 1st set of true leaves the ones that don't look like little, oval shaped seedling leaves? Like, the shape of leaf the mature plant would have? and, if so, how many "untrue" leaves can you get on a seedling before a real set sprouts? Mine is getting a second set of leaves, but they're still too small to tell what they look like....is the second set of leaves normally your first set of true leaves?

Kristie

Not at all a stupid question and my philosophy is that there are no stupid questions. It is only stupid not to ask because then you still don't know:-)

I consider the first true leaves as the first set of leaves that appear on plant which look like those on mature plant and which is usually the second set but I am by no means an expert on this.
Hopefully someone else will also reply.

Kristie,
yes, the first seed leaves are little round things. The 2nd set of leaves is the first set of true leaves, and look like miniatures of the adult leaves. (A few exceptions but you're not growing any.)

Fertilizers are labeled with sets of 3 numbers. For instance, the 2 containers of Miracle-Gro that I have are "Houseplants" and its numbers are 8-7-6, and "Tomatoes" and its numbers are 18-18-21. The 3 numbers are "N-P-K", the amounts of nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus. Nitrogen is great for leaf development, potassium is good for roots, and phosphorus is good for flowers and fruits. You want your seedling to concentrate on roots and not so much on the other stuff. So the best fertilizer is one whose middle number is highest, next best is one whose 1st number is lowest. The lower the numbers, the less there is of the good stuff in there. So when I water my seedlings with M-G "Tomatoes", I dilute it more than the package says, because the seedlings are tender little things. The things already in the garden I put the fertilizer on full-strength.

Finally, most babies (sown but not sprouted yet) prefer warm surroundings at least until they've sprouted. Instead of putting them outside in the cold, put them in a tray and set it on a radiator during at least part of the day. Put water in the tray, too, to keep the air humid and so the cells won't dry out too fast. Once they've sprouted, plants you cannot put in the ground before last frost probably would like to stay warm, so keep them (under lights!) indoors until a week or two before you intend to plant them outdoors. Then you can harden them off by putting them outdoors in the shade during the day for a few days and then round the clock. Plants that can handle frost can be taken from the warmth (but not the light!) earlier.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION-while carrieebryan is right that nitrogen promotes leaf growth and phosphorus promotes flower and fruit development PHOSPHORUS IS ALSO THE ONE THAT PROMOTES ROOT DEVELOPMENT , IS THE P AND IS THE MIDDLE NUMBER NOT THE 3RD NUMBER . K which is the 3rd number is the potassium usually in the form of potash and helps fight disease and increase hardiness.
Doubt that makes all that much difference on the small amount using in dilluted form on seedlings but wanted new gardeners to be aware as more important when trying to add larger quantities on other things that may need one of the particular major components of fertilizer.





This message was edited Apr 28, 2007 6:58 AM

Well, they've all sprouted, and I've thinned them down to one plant per cell...and am chomping at the bit to fertilize. I have tomatoes...most have sprouted itty, bitty second set of leaves. How big do the leaves need to be before I fertilize? Not exactly sure they are the real leaves, they're so small. I also have cabbage and broccoli....most are starting a new set of leaves. Also, I've pretty much kept them outside, so I suppose they're hardened off now( I did this because I don't have grow lights and its been warm enough to do so and my house has no direct sunlight inside at ALL), so since they have been outside, is there a different time frame for fertilizing? Oh, and I'm in 5b....and my plants are so little, now I'm freaking out I started them too late and it will all be for nothing! Another reason why I'm dying to fertilize....I went ahead and bought a few tomato plants today, just in case.....but I really love my little seedlings, I want them to grow. Oh, also, the fertilizer I have is Peters Professional All purpose Plant food...20-20-20. And, I'm assuming early morning or evening is the best to fertilize if they're outside? Hmmmm....think that's all I have to ask for now....

Kristie

Hey everyone,

Well I had an interesting gardening weekend. Its was beautiful up here in the highcountry. 75 degree days/36 degree nights. I transplanted all my Roma tomatoes, but I'm holding off on the Big Boys. Their second leaves just aren't very big. I left them int he greenhouse since its been above freezing outside, I'm fairly confident that it won't get below 40 inside. We'll see how they did once I get home.

On a cloudier note, I got sprouts for my broccoli and brussel sprouts. It was such a great day out Sunday that I decided to set the tray outside for direct light. They were only out for an hour all but 5 drooped and wilted. I know broccoli is a cold weather plant, but I didn't think the they would have that effect! So now I'm thinning to see what will make it through, but my question is how well will broccoli do in my area in directly sowed? I'm planning to do my direct sowing of radishes, onions, green onions, lettuce and beets this weekend and was thinking about adding the broccolli into the mix while its still cool enough to germinate. What do you think? The brussel sprouts I'm going to try again and plan to keep those babies indoors for life since I've read they aren't the best mountain crop.

Well, on my broccoli packet says you can resow for a fall crop, so I'm assuming that you can sow directly into the ground. Mine seem to grow pretty quickly, and since its cooler up there, I'm sure you could. Also on my packet it says "when to plant outdoors" and for your area(guessing)it says april through may, or may through june, depending on where you are(don't know my zones). I bet direct sowing would be fine. On a side not, it got up to 89 degrees here! A bit of a shock.

Thanks!
So the tomatoes are happy, and tht makes me happy. I think I should pull them in from the greenhouse for a few nights this week, but over all I'm proud of my transplants. Still only 5 broccoli and sprouts total surviving the heat shock. My Peppers & eggplants are just now growing there real leaves, but I was thinking about moving them to the greenhouse this weekend and transplanting the following one.

I'm a little behind on my weeding, so hopefully I'll get at it a few evenings this week and I can plant next weekend. I'm really starting to think the people wholived in our place before, didn't read up much before gardening. My veggie beds are full of weeds and grass. I think they just dumped a bunch of soil on top and made paths with rocks. Eventually I'm gonna have to pull out all the rocks with the beds. And weed for the rest of my life.

One more update, I saw the Big Momma Bunny today, eating at the weeds amoung my veggie beds. Her and her familly are living under the greenhouse and currently have a nice size patio entry to my veggie garden. I'm putting DH to work on it this weekend, Any ideas to keep them out and the weeds?

81302, thanks for the correction. I always get the P & the K mixed up. At any rate, seedlings need N (the first number) less than the other two so if you can find a fertilizer the 1st number of which is NOT the biggest, that's a good one to fertilize your seedlings with.

My cherry and currant tomatoes finally hit the grow light and I transplanted them into bigger pots and put them out in the carport with the 'Brandywine' tomatoes. They're in the shade and out of the wind, so they don't get the most extreme temp changes, and I pass them at least 2ce a day so I can keep an eye on their moisture. The pots are sitting in a plastic tray so when I feed/water them I pour it into the tray and let the pots soak it up as they need it. Weather permitting I plan to put them actually in the ground in mid-May -- 2 more weeks!

My husk cherry seedlings stalled out when they started their true leaves, so I sowed a 2nd batch and have put them and the similarly growth-challenged bok choi-lings back on the heat mat. The lettuces are coming along nicely -- when I thin them now I have 1/2 serving of mesclun to add to the store-bought -- and the chard and radishes are coming up as well. And 7 of the 11 potato pieces have sprouted (so far) and made they way up through their first 4" of soil. When they're another 4" tall they'll get another layer of dirt to grow their potatoes in.

I house a multi-generational rabbit family myself, under the garden shed. They had been content with the wild strawberries and clover in the yard, but someone has been nipping off the tops of my pea plants, so I finally had to surrender and cover them with netting. As for Mrs. Bun Rab III, who's a ditzy blonde from out of town, she's been eating the birdseed. She stays away when I add cayenne pepper, which bothers the mammals but not the birds, but it doesn't prevent her from hoppiting up onto the patio to check it every day. Idiot. Hawks live along the railroad cut 2 blocks away and regularly cruise the neighborhood, but she's blithely unconcerned. My local snake family (red-sided garter snakes) recently lost a member: I saw a blue jay nab a baby snake and, with a great deal of writhing on one side and much stabbing on the other, devour it. Those blue jays are not just a pretty face, no sirree.

As far as the rabbits, cayenne pepper or red pepper flakes do seem to work. But, I think you may need to reapply after rain? I also use kids pinwheels...stick em in the ground ,it helps scare things away-at least on windy days. I've also heard that if you mulch with dog hair, it scares the critters away. If you wanted to try it, I suppose you could go to a local groomer and take their clippings off their hands for free. Never tried it. I think also lemon rinds, etc....but, that's possibly more for keeping the neighbor's cat from using it as a litter box. You could also take coffee cans and remove the top and bottom from it(or maybe paint cans) and put around the plants, if its just rabbits that are bothering your plants. I think I remember reading something about vinegar, but not sure. It was either place small bowls around or spray it on the plants, or perhaps I dreamed it up. Hope that helps a little.

Carrie- the only other fertilizer I have is a houseplant one that is 8-7-6....should I use the 20-20-20 instead? It also has micronutrients. Does Nitrogen hurt the seedlings or inhibit them?


This message was edited May 2, 2007 11:24 AM

Ok, well I'm gonna fertilize my plants today...going to use the 20-20-20 fertilizer, 1/2 strength or maybe a little less. If this is a mistake, speak up soon....my seedlings lives are hanging in the balance! :)

kls-01,
The 20-20-20 would be better for the seedlings than the 8-7-6. If you dilute the former to half strength, it'd be 10-10-10. Micronutrients are vital. I use bagged composted manure for this reason -- it's only, like, 1-1-1, if that, but it has micronutrients and the good bacteria that turn a house into a home for the tomato and potato roots and their ilk.

I reapply the cayenne pepper to the birdseed after the rain because the rain washes it away, along with the birdseed. Rotting birdseed can make birds very sick, so when it rains I dump the birdseed onto the patio where the water can drain away. Birds that prefer to eat off the ground, like our mourning doves, pig out while the perching eaters get the goodies once it stops raining.

After a week of rain, and then Alumni Weekend (I work at a college), we're expecting several dry days, during which I'll have to plant my tomatoes at last! and "hill up" my potatoes. Problem with growing potatoes in big pots: I have 3-4 plants in each pot, and 1-2 are way tall, and I want to put dirt around their stems because that's where the potatoes will grow. But 1-2 are either short or just barely clearing the surface, and I can't just bury them leaves at all. Means a great deal of earth sculpting to hill up some and not others. It'll even out in the end, but meanwhile I'm going to spend a lot of time kneeling by the pots with a trowel.

Well, I'm glad I've used the right fertilizer. I fertilized a week ago and will fertilize again next week. My mom had some stuff that has a low first number and high second number...I may use that next week. Is it bad to change fertilizers? I think the stuff my mom has is root stimulator, so would that work? Or, should I just stick to the triple 20 stuff?

I didn't know you could grow potatoes in pots! That sounds cool. I've never grown potatoes yet, but I may try it out in the future....good luck with the earth sculpting Carrie. :)

Kristie

Nothing wrong with changing fertilizers. It's like eating veggies one day and fruit the next. Both are good for you.