How is the climate changing your garden and gardening?

I have noticed some differences in my garden in the last five years. Five years ago I could grow violas, in the shade, all summer. Now I can't, they have mostly died from the heat. I can, however grow them in the winter! I have had Johnny Jump up's blooming since December and I never remember that happening before. Of course I can grow zone 6 plants where before I could only growing zone 5. For the last two years we've had freakish warm spells during the winter and severe snowstorms as well, which have caused havoc when some plants have been fooled into believing that the snow is gone.
I have also heard of flowers blooming at times when they never have before and of course animals showing up in areas where they have never been seen before, such as armadillos.
What has changed in your garden in the last ten years?

I'm sure it is changing for many of us, if not all.

I wish I could say what's changed for me but in reality what's changed is where I live. I'm now at least a zone colder, with NO experience in this locale, and my closest neighbors are farmer's not gardener's so there's no help there.

Mobi, I understand that one type of climate-related change has been more apparent the closer to the poles you get (especially the north pole which has more inhabited land mass nearby) and least apparent the closer you get to the equator. The same applies to higher and lower elevations, if I understand correctly. (For the sake of discussion, I won't get into another cluster of effects related to climate change that has to do with changes in the North Atlantic gulf stream - being one planet, although these are all ultimately related)

Anyhoo, I'll give Weezingreens a buzz - she lives in Alaska. Darius, don't we have a member from Finland - Evert? It would be great to see what he would say, or anyone from that far north.

Here's an interesting comparison of how the weather has warmed up for the Eastern seaboard (map) plus the article discusses how southern magnolias, for instance, can now be grown in parts of Michigan! It says Washington DC is now the "new North Carolina" as far as average temps are concerned:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/19/AR2006121901769.html

An article a couple of years ago talked about how global warming could have some curious effects on certain areas. Where we live - San Francisco Bay Area - it mentioned that weather for us could possibly get cooler, because our "natural air conditioning", the fogs that form off the ocean, are created from heated inland air meeting cooler ocean air. So as the inland areas heat up, we on the coast might become increasingly cooler as an after-effect.

Yes, Evert lives in Finland. I haven't seen many posts lately, though. Several years ago he was a 12 year old budding botanist. I suspect he has discovered girls, LOL.

What I have observed is mainly a change in the "moderating effects". The Arctic air flow in winter is following a different pattern, the Gulf Stream ditto. So the fluctuations I would expect normally are greatly enhanced -- witness the 75 days of snowcover we had in Centennial this year -- ordinarily the snow would melt off rather quickly, but instead it kept coming, and coming, until there was 4' on my rosegarden. Normally my concern would be with dessication. Instead, once the snow DID finally leave, in late February, the plants were well watered and well insulated, and in some cases STILL GROWING under the snow, so I saw some of the earliest growth in my summer-blooming perennials ever. I have "annuals" and "tender perennials" that were so well insulated they look like mid-may instead of early april in terms of growth.

If the same pattern holds we could see long stretches of unmoderated upflow from the Gulf, and I'm not sure what that means once the hurricanes start blowing. Whatever it is, I am sure it will be interesting!

I have had more tulips come up this year than I have for the last 8 years! The excess snow and moisture.

We've had extremes of heat and cold over the past 12 months. We had a relatively dry winter coming into 2006 to be followed by over 40 days of continuous rain in April and May 2006. It was a crisis for the farmers to have such waterlogged fields at that date when they normally are drying out and harvesting. Our surrounding water (ocean and bay) normally keeps us cooler in the summer and warmer in winter yet last summer we had record heat in the 100's and then this past January it was down to 17'F. I now have frost blankets and shade cloth on hand to protect my veggies from the temperature extremes.

For me, a lot of annuals are wintering over! The last two winters have been extraordinarily warm making winter sowing a bust. The most amazing thing is some cerius cactus that have survived 2 winters now, outside in a pot with no protection!

I have a feeling that in the near future we will see some zone changes.

Xeramtheum

One or two quirky years do not a trend make. Supposedly I am now in zone 7 but I would not spend any good money on a zone 7 plant and take that chance. The last five Summers here have seen hotter than normal ones, cooler than normal, drier than normal and wetter than normal. And maybe one or two relatively normal. We will see what the future brings but so far there simply has been no discernible trend here.

Many of the vineyards are abandoning northern California and planting in the Willamette Valley here in Oregon. Every year more traditional farm land is switched to grape vines. Our climate is becoming ideal, while Sonoma and Napa valley are getting hotter and requiring more irrigation.

There are indications that the shifting climate may produce a new Dust Bowl in the Southwest.

Changing climate will mean increasing drought in the southwestern United States, where water already is in short supply, according to a new study.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/04/06/dust.bowl.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

A lot of people argue that global warming is normal and climate shifts are normal. They are aboslutely right too! What they seem to fail to understand is that we are speeding up the cycle.

X

X, without getting too much into that controversial area, your last sentence is not an established fact. Unfortunately, we have a 'climate' where good decent scientists, with unblemished credentials are being called quacks and even criminals! When science is hijacked by politics and takes on near-religious dimensions, then it ceases to be science.

I want to get in on that, but all I'll say is that anyone can make statistics say whatever they want them to say. There's not much point in denying the ice caps are melting, and whose fault it is doesn't matter -- we have to do what we can with what we have.

That said and back on track, down here winter seems to have shifted. We don't usually get much of one, but what we get is severe and comes later than it used to. Admittedly not necessarily a trend, but I've lived down here for 54 years and it's an observation.

Victor, you misunderstand. Global climate shifts usually takes thousands of years to occur. What humankind is doing is quantumly speeding up the process making it less easy for Gaia to adapt. Miocene fossils show there were dinosaurs and palm trees in the arctic regions. Global warming is not something new. The speed at which it is happening now is new.

It's happening so fast that flora and fauna don't have time to adapt and evolve as previously. Yes we have global warming and yes, as far as humankind goes it is catastrophic. Our species is the only species that has not lived symbiotically with the earth. The sad part is that we are pretty much at the point of no return and we did it to ourselves and it will continue to escalate exponentially no matter what we do, even if we globally went agrarian tomorrow. All we as a species can do now is try to adapt and learn from our mistakes. We could perhaps slow it down a bit but we can't stop it.

X

I've read about the possibility of a permanent drought in the southwest too. If it happens it's going to be a HUGE problem. Especially since I live in that area. Overall, we've had hotter summers here and colder winters. And our snowpack, on which we depend on water all summer and fall is evaporating before it melts, which means less water.

X, I understand perfectly. You are simply incorrect in saying that climate changes have always taken thousands of years. That is just not true. There have been many instances where it changed very quickly and many species who could not adapt, died off. That is one of the leading theories concerning Neanderthals disappearance. The so-called Little Ice Age was another. I get about four science and research emails daily and just in the last few months there were a number of stories about fast climate changes in earth history. (I'll try to look for links later - my solar guys are here right now). And scientists cannot explain what triggered those past ones. Your dinosaur allusion is confusing since their demise is one more instance of RAPID climate change.

Having said that, I am all for getting away from fossil fuels FOR MANY REASONS, and have put my money where my mouth is. Pellet stove, tankless water heater, cf bulbs, solar conversion, etc. I have done way more than most of the people yelling 'Fire!' But people need to get facts straight. I am trained in science - in engineering. The biggest mistakes that are made happen when a rushed 'solution' is implemented before we know the full extent of the problem. And when people with forty or fifty years experience in climatology are marginalized, ostracized and even possibly criminalized, something is very, very wrong.

I recall a thread a few years ago here on Dave's in which we discussed global warming. Discussion turned to arguing, and I think it may have been deleted. It was probably in 2002 0r 2003, and at that time, there were many members posting that global warming did not exist. I, and some of the European members, including Evert, insisted it was a reality, siting rapidly melting glaciers and warming temperatures in our norther climes. In the ensuing four or five years, the pace at which or frozen north is melting has increased alarmingly. There is concern now that polar bears will become a zoo oddity soon, and the thawing of the ice fields may release methane gases beneath the ocean.

All things have a beginning and an end. I don't expect to live forever, but there is some comfort in believing that the earth with all its natural beauty will live on. I am 60, and I selfishly hope my green gardens and white capped mountains of Alaska are still here when I am gone. I have two sons, but no grandchildren. I take comfort in that. So, for anyone who would like to tell me there is no global warming, or that it is not accelerated by our need for convenience and comfort, I hope you are right. However, if you've dreamed of seeing Alaska, do it sooner rather than later.

Well said, Weez!

Indeed! There is no doubt we are in a period of global warming.

Victor I did not say climate shifts always takes thousands of years. You are correct that there have been rapid changes in climates. These are most likely to occur with prolific super volcanic activity (Yellowstones 6 mile wide caldera is evidence of a super volcano) or extra-terrestrial activity such as meteorites hitting our earth or passing very close.

As to the disapperance Neanderthals, there are many theories. Rapid climate change could indeed be a factor but I do not believe the total cause. After sequencing Neanderthal DNA, the theory that they were absorbed by modern humans went down the tubes. It is my belief that they were most likely killed by humans, a systematic genocide if you will. Evidence of the last of the Neanderthals, about 30,000 years ago has been found in the Southern French region. A change in climate certainly could have limited their food supply but I believe that it is more likely that their gene pool became a closed gene puddle unable to support the species.

Apologies to Mobi for hijacking your thread.

X

This message was edited Apr 13, 2007 9:30 AM

I don't mind hijacking, I really just wondered what are some personal experiences that everybody is having due to climate change (manmade or not). I have noticed a difference in the plants in my backyard and what I can and cannot grow or when I can grow things has changed.

I am amazed that the night blooming cerius cactus has survived 3 winters now, outside and unprotected. I even had a suzie vine come back in my front bed last year. I've also tried to grow peony for the last 2 years to no avail. A senior neighbor told me they grew peony all the time here back in the 50's.

My plants in the ground, brugmansia, canna lily and confederate rose, are weeks ahead of last year for new growth too.

X

The 'debate' is not whether we are in a period of warming - we obviously are. The two major areas where people differ is 1) is it due to human activity, particularly in recent times and 2) what to do about it, assuming anything CAN slow or reverse the trend.

The fact is there are many qualified climatologists who do not agree that it is due to man's activity and are opposed to taking some of the drastic steps that have been proposed. It may very well be that species, like the polar bear, will be lost in the wild. This has happened many times in the earth's history. As a nature lover, I would hate to see that. The problem is that any scientist that doesn't fall in line is called a quack or a stooge of big oil. Recently, Dr. Gray, the renowned hurricane expert, said that there has been a rush to judgement and said the discussion has been hijacked by alarmists. He now will be targeted. There was a time when questioning the prevailing theories WAS science.

X, you have no problem with recognizing many theories about Neanderthals disappearance, including your own personal one, but for some reason that does not extend to the warming issue. Why?? Do you know that the polar caps on Mars are melting too?

There are many who want to impose changes that will have far-reaching economic consequences for the economy. Interestingly, many of the same people who have been screaming about the loss of American jobs to China and India, have no problem with those countries being exempted from the proposed treaty. That will increase the job loss big-time. And they are the two fasting growing polluters in the world. How many environmental impact studies do you think take place in China before a new power plant is constructed?

Another problem is the utter hypocrisy of those leading this crusade. It's okay for the number one advocate to have $30,000 monthly utility bills? Oh yeah, but he pays for 'carbon credits'. That makes everything right. With his jet-setting and other habits, he has done more damage to the environment than 99.9% of the world's population. Maybe he's motivated by a guilty conscience.

How many people who claim that the environment / global warming are important issues to them, do not even use any cf bulbs? Only 6% of Americans do, according to a recent business report. How many drive under 55 mph? Turn down the thermostat?

I don't know if we are responsible for this warming. Maybe, maybe not. But I am doing way more than most people who are convinced. I think waste is terrible and selfish and we need to get away from fossil fuel use for many reasons. We should not be beholden to fanatic countries, we will run out of them one day and they pollute in other ways.

Having doubts does not make you evil, close-minded or ill-informed. Quite the contrary. Something is not scientifically factual just because it is politically attractive. There was a time when all doctors believed post-menopausal women needed hormones. Years later, oops. There are countless other examples of virtually unanimously accepted theories being subsequently disproved. Ironically, there are other environmental issues, such as over-fishing, where there is zero doubt about man being responsible and the results being potentially catastrophic. When was the last time that was the lead story??

Mobi, I too apologize for the diversion. I have not seen any big difference in my garden. In contrast to what many of the Southern gardeners are saying, ask NE gardeners about this Spring. We are WAY behind the norm. By this time most of my daffs are already in full bloom or past. I only have two in bloom. We have not even had forsythia bloom yet. It's been crazy.

I did try the cf bulbs and I HATED them. They were awful - I could barely see with the little light that they gave out so I gave them away - sorry, didn't do my part there. I probably won't use them again until they get better.

Now we are having a LOT more tulips come up than usual this year than in past years. And a lot less snow - which could be bad for our water situation this year. My annual poppies are coming up and I don't know how they are going to survive since our last frost dates are not usually until mid May.

How long ago did you try the cf's? They were horrible at the beginning but have gotten much better. But even still - the old ones could have been gotten used to. But see - it's not CONVENIENT! Americans are unwilling to make minor sacrifices like this and driving slower, etc., yet many are in favor of the major changes that are being proposed. Go figure.

victor, some of us choose to forgo other types of electricity usage in order to see well with light bulbs that produce visible light and don't hum. That doen't mean we are not conserving energy. I have lower electric usage with my mix of incandescent & cf bulbs than my neighbor in the same size unit with all cfs. But then, I don't use a hair dryer and we don't own a large screen TV. In fact, the TV is rarely on. We're a family that reads...........and we like to read with quality lighting.
I'd rather see a per head ration or quota for electricity with the individual family deciding how they wish to use their ration than a nanny government dictating how I can use my power and making incandescent bulbs illegal.

My garden is behind normal a bit this year and last year it was too....because of cold and wet. 2004 was below normal heat indexes in the growing season. I haven't seen much global warming here during garden season.

Mobi, My annual poppies come up during the cold season every year....it's their nature.

Victor, Man I like your objectivity on the warming issue. People with an adgenda are reporting what is favorable to them. A classic example was a rebuttal in my newspaper concerning the firing of 8 attorneys recently....not a peep about the previous president who fired all 93 attorneys to get at the one over the Wh,...Wa case...enough said.

I still have one cf bulb in my bathroom and I keep meaning to change it out because I still hate it after two years (but I have to get a ladder). I really like things to be convenient, I'm afraid, and probably won't change some things until I have to. In fact all my gardening has to be easy.

I have no lawn because it's too hard to keep up, especially with drought and perennials are much easier, though they are smaller in the drought years but don't die like grass. In fact so many people around here are getting rid of their lawns! I think I am the fifth person on my block who has changed over to something else besides grass.

I am glad to here about the poppies, I've never grown annual poppies and have a lot coming up!

We shouldn't get too political here or the thread will get yanked.

The only other change I've seen is lack of bees, but I don't think that has to do with climate change as we spraying for West Nile Virus here and I think that may be the problem.

GM, I am sure you are not typical and I applaud your efforts. With only 6% (if that is indeed accurate) using cf's, there are doubtless many people who are not paying attention to their overall use as you are. I disagree with you though on the rationing. I would like to see time of use electric rates for all residents instead, perhaps coupled with a feature that reduces the rate if you use less overall.

Mobi, congrats on getting rid of the lawn. Lawns are responsible for so many bad things for us - smell, fuel & noise of the lawn mowers, trimmers, blowers; all those nasty chemical fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides that get into our water and sometimes directly into our bodies and kill off all the beneficial bugs, etc. When the kids are grown, I plan some alternative lawn.

Indy, thank you.

This message was edited Apr 14, 2007 10:16 PM

Some news on warming:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070413100826.htm

We tried the cf bulbs early on and were dissappointed by how dim they were but the newer ones are perfectly bright and silent. They do take a second or two to come on but that is a small price for a bulb that saves so much energy. The best use we have found for the cf's is in one of those closed fixtures (it' the globe under my kitchen ceiling fan) that say "60 watt maximum". We have been able to put a much brighter bulb in there, we are still no where near 60 w's and we are finally able to use this fixture for reading.

This year we had Fall into the end of the year, Spring arrived with the new year and then winter popped up in early April. We are having an early summer now with days close to 80, and nights close to 70. It hasn' t rained here in 8 weeks and neither my plants nor I know what to do. In my part of SC we haven't had a freeze in more than 2 years now and the bugs are loving this weather. Just a few blocks away however, they did have a hard freeze. Go figure.

I like eating avocado's and am used to throw the pits in my garden, with the result that some of them start sprouting. This year was the first one that all four that had sprouted last year survived the winter.
The last couple of years I don't take in any longer my little olive tree and citrus trees. They were very fine without any noticeable damage from the winter period. They look much better than in the years I took them inside.
Plants considered as annuals in my zone , because of them being frost tender, like Eschscholzia californica and some of my lobelia's have survived the winter and are now growing very vigorously. Since more than a week now we are having real summer weather over here with temp. going up to 29°C!!
One of my Eschscholzia I planted in a friends garden, last autumn and it is blooming like crazy. This photo was taken on 22 April and according to my friend it has been blooming since 2 weeks before that.