The Cost of Food Gardening

I gardened (blindly, without guidance) as a kid but was away from it for years. Two years ago I was able to start again when I became co-owner of a house. Food gardening (esp. fruit) has always been what I loved. I think it's easy to fool one's self into thinking that one is saving money by growing a portion of one's produce at home, but I'm beginning to suspect that's untrue, at least for beginning gardeners who make plenty of costly mistakes out of ignorance. Wish I had started tracking my gardening expenses two years ago!

Has anyone else tracked their food gardening expenses to see how they stack up against a like amount of produce bought at the Farmer's Market?

Here's where I have wasted the most money:

- starts bought before I actually have time to transplant them, they die or weaken before I can get 'em in.

- loads of money on soil and soil amendments.

- plants that die the death of various fungal diseases because I don't yet know enough about prevention.

Food is a side benefit, to recreation. Expenses alone are hard to meet. Unless you are gardening for the enjoyment of it, count the cost of your wages into the mix and you understand why most of us grow for the fun of it. It is cheaper recreation than playing golf or fishing. But if you want to be golfing or fishing, than growing vegetables becomes work, and work without significant compensation.

Thanks for bringing that up, Farmerdill. I forgot to say it in my post, but I would definitely garden anyway. I enjoy the connection to the earth and the seasons. I'm terrible at meditation and gardening is one of the few ways to get my brain to stop chattering at me. It's worth it for stress reduction alone.

But I definitely want to learn how to cut out the waste my ignorance is causing me!

If you worry about it you will stress yourself out. I am a traditionalist, growing techniques like my father and grandfather. Seeds, fertilizer, and gasoline are my major expenses. At current prices I can come in at less than $100.00 an acre. But if one enjoys having the gimmicks ( I am using a 51 year tractor) The price can escalate quickly. Three Earth Boxes alone cost what I have in an acre. Fancy soil amendmends can be very pricy . If you set a fancy iriigation system ( I rely on rain) you blow my budget quickly. Lastly, I have doing this for over 60 years and there are surprises every year. A crop can be wiped out by late frosts, a new disease, hurricanes etc. We just do the best we know how, then relax, and let nature take its course.

Gardening has given me a great appreciation for how much the average person must have known in the Middle Ages as well as what family farmers know now. If my entire livelihood or ability to eat depended on what I could coax from the ground, I'd be in trouble! And I live in one of the best agricultural areas in North America climate-wise.

I need to get better at recordkeeping so I can start learning from my experiences. I wish gardening were brought into more schools as it is an excellent way to learn about biology, ecology, genetics, geology, meteorology, etc. When I make note of what I'm seeing in my garden, it is about as basic Scientific Method as you can get: observe, record, experiment, theorize, draw conclusions.

spidra : You're in Berkeley CA -- food, especially good fresh produce, is cheap there in comparison to other areas. I moved from the San Fernando Valley two years ago. I only grew flowers there because fresh vegetables and fruit were so plentiful and cheap. But fresh produce is 3-5 times more and usually looks as if it hitchhiked to get here, plus there is a lack of variety. I especially miss the Ventura Co. strawberries from the roadside stands - wonderful berries - and $10.00/flat. Here strawberries are $2.50 & up for one little basket and they taste like STRAW.

That's why I'm planting vegetables and putting in fruit trees. Even if I don't save any money, if they just taste good it's a success. Our soil is bad -- hard red clay like concrete with little round rocks all through it. I'm not even going to try to amend it. Putting in raised beds for the strawberries and asparagus, and straw bales for the annual vegetables. I figure it's all an experiment and a learning experience, too. I agree with Farmerdill. Consider it a recreational hobby, but read the posts and ask questions. You'll learn a lot and can avoid costly mistakes.

Farmerdill: I looked at EBs -- the cost is outrageous, sheesh! Homemade ones looked to be more trouble than I wanted to fool with. At least with the straw bales I'll have compost as a byproduct. I wish it would rain here enough that I didn't have to water, but apparently this area is now in the third-year of a drought. I bought some plants this year as I don't yet have enough confidence in my seed-starting ability. But I plan to switch to starting all from seed next year which will cut the costs quite a bit. I always enjoy your advice and philosophy. I've learned so much from reading your posts. Just for grins and giggles, I'm going to try some tater towers. I already have a roll of chicken wire ($5.00 to put around the beds so I'm not providing the dogs with a great place to dig) and the woods behind the house are full of decomposing leaves. I figure if I'm even halfway successful it was cheap to do it.

> Even if I don't save any money, if they just taste good it's a success.

Agreed. That's why two crops I will always grow are strawberries and tomatoes. Even though it's a bit foggy in my microclimate for tomatoes, even a partially successful crop is better than what most supermarkets have and cheaper than what it would cost to buy good tomatoes at the Farmers Market (probably). I have trouble getting up early on weekends so if I get to the FM, it's usually after the good produce has been picked over. Sometimes as the guys are packing up!

Boy, I should have spent time outlining my ideas before writing that post because you've both brought up things I thought of and agree with....I just forgot to write that in there.

I compost but don't produce enough to fill my needs. So I don't always have to buy amendments. What I've had to buy the most of is seedling mix or stuff to put in EarthBoxes (I only bought one myself. I was lucky enough to score 3 off Craig's List for free)...for cases where it's important to have something that is not full of weed seeds and/or fungus. Fungus is probably my biggest problem here.

>I moved from the San Fernando Valley two years ago. I only grew flowers there because fresh vegetables and fruit were so plentiful and cheap.

This year I'm trying to grow okra and snow peas simply because those are expensive. When I visit my parents in the LA area, I find produce is cheaper there (gas is, too). Still, I can well believe that it's cheaper to get produce here near the San Joaquin Valley than it would be to buy some in West Texas or someplace similar. It's sad that there isn't more available near you. Somehow I think of Alabama as a place where family farms would still exist in some measure. http://www.tuscaloosacsa.com/ http://www.federationsoutherncoop.com

I bought seeds for Charentais melons this year because I tasted some at a Farmers Market booth last season and they were fantastic. I don't think I'd seen them even in Berkeley Bowl which is a *fantastic* produce market near me.

Still, I'm having to economize in all facets of my life. Got my first credit card last year after having done everything cash only for 40 years... I want to get back on top of things again. So I need to start finding ways to economize in this recreation as in my other forms of recreation.

I've started collecting the SF Chronicle's free monthly Gardening Tasks columns so I can be more prepared and learn more about the rhythms of things. I'm trying to learn more about growing from seed and propagating so that I won't go quite so crazy buying starts at the nursery. Free compost is available the last Saturday of the month from the city as long as I can get help from a friend in loading (I have problems with my hands/arms). I water a fair amount with greywater from the bathtub. That will be a little trickier to do once I get housemates unless I get the kind of ecologically concerned housemates I'd most like. The rest of the watering is done by drip irrigation (which someone else installed...I have to teach myself how to install and maintain those systems). I've got almost the entire yard mulched so that also helps with conserving water. I'm trying to avoid losses in the tomato dept. (EarthBoxes and tomatoes HAVEN'T gotten along well here) by trying the Topsy-Turvy planter. I've joined a mailing list of local gardeners who trade their surplus produce.

Those are my money-saving steps so far.

You're in Berkeley, I can't think of anywhere else where you'd have a better chance of finding those environmentally conscious housemates!

I'm also curious whether you've ever had success with tomatoes--I have some coworkers who live near me and they complain about how it doesn't get hot enough here to get decent tomatoes a lot of the time, and Berkeley is a lot cooler and more foggy in the summer than it is here. But if you can grow them in Berkeley then maybe they're blaming the climate but it's really something else that's going wrong!

You should also stop by the CA gardening forum and say hi
http://davesgarden.com/forums/f/region_ca/all/
And the Frugal Living forum may be of interest as well
http://davesgarden.com/place/f/dirtcheap/all/

OMG!...did that forum just pop up? The Frugal Living Forum....I will not get anysleep tonight because I have a whole new forum to catch up on...I can't wait!
Thanks ecrane...for all of your advice, posts, comments...everything!

Nope--it's been around for a little while. So you'll have plenty of good tips to catch up on!

If you want to garden and save money you might be interested in this thread.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/700109/

Thanks TD...unfortunately, not a paid subscriber yet...cannot read.

> I'm also curious whether you've ever had success with tomatoes--I have some coworkers who live near me and they complain about how it doesn't get hot enough here to get decent tomatoes a lot of the time, and Berkeley is a lot cooler and more foggy in the summer than it is here.

The only tomato I've had unmitigated success with is the cherry tomato "Sungold". Even within Berkeley we have microclimates. I'm a bit too close to the Bay to get good heat and I contend with a lot of wind. Two years ago a local paper had a picture of an 8 foot tall Sungold growing in Berkeley http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/index.cfm?archiveDate=08-05-05

There's a volunteer tomato here that grows alright. It's a pear/cherry tomato (actually, they look like Christmas lights) that is not very juicy but tastes okay. I've bought starts of Odoriko, Black Krim, Roma II, Carmelo, and a couple others and what usually happens is that I get about 5 tomatoes before the things die from some sort of fungus (I assume it's verticillium wilt, but I'm not sure). This has been maddening because I've grown my tomatoes in EarthBoxes with storebought sterile soil. So where did the fungus come from?

Anyway, Dublin gets plenty of sun for tomatoes. I'd just try different varieties to see what works.

Thanks all for your comments, links and advice! Keep 'em coming.

BTW, ecrane, I'm subbed to the California Gardening thread but haven't read or posted just yet. I only subscribed just yesterday.

spidra:

I'm growing the "expensive" stuff, too. - strawberries, tomatoes, okra, green beans, red, yellow, and orange bell peppers, etc. I'm going to grow the Chartenais melons, too.

You need to seek out the varieties that can be expected to grow well in your climate. Check with UC Davis or your local Cooperative Extension Office for suggestions on specific varieties.

Here's an article in the San Francisco Chronicle about growing tomatoes in the Bay area:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/17/HOG25OLAGO1.DTL

Speaking of expensive vegetables, have you considered that you can probably grow artichokes in your area?

When I lived in Portland, OR we had a summer they called "green tomato summer", meaning there were not enough sunny days to ripen the tomatoes. My boss had 2 acres planted, all huge fruit, all green as could be. He let me have what I wanted for free. They made into wonderful green tomato relish. = - )

Karen

What a coincidence, glendalekid. This thread made me Google earlier today and I found that old SF Chron article, too. I've got two artichoke plants in the yard. I'm not a huge artichoke fan but last season I harvested two and prepared them. I washed them well, but eating them turned out to be quite the experience due to the dead insect larvae in between the leaves. Yuck!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/spidra/222643249/in/set-72157594570994073/

When I had tomatoes that wouldn't ripen last year, I asked some Southern friends about fried green tomatoes and tried that. I'll look into the relish idea. Thanks!

This message was edited Apr 7, 2007 10:10 PM

I don't care for artichokes either, spidra, so I can't advise how to wash home-grown ones. I bet someone on DG knows though. Great photo!

I LOVE fried green tomatoes, sliced, coated in flour with salt and pepper, and then pan fried. Folks here in AL batter and deep fry them. Because tomatoes are acid, the relish is easy to make and can or "put up" as my grandmother would have said.

Thanks to modern ag research, there are vegetables that can be grown in areas where previously the chance of success was slim to none. When I moved here I was told that I can't grow everbearing strawberries in AL because it gets too hot in the summer. Via Google I found a cultivar called Eversweet. Supposed to be able to take temp to 100 degrees and still fruit, and rated as excellent tasting. I have planted 75 of them. We shall see.

Karen

I live in Z5, so I don't have the opportunity to access the variety of fresh veggies at the great prices you can get compared to here.

I am growing in bulk this to sell for the first time and if I can meet 63% of my sales goal, I will break even, including the cost of what I planted "for free" for my family and cost of items. I have planted over 1300 seeds starts (not including potatoes, leeks, onions and garlic) and will plan to sell 1000 and keep and give the othter 300. It is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cheaper to start from seed than to just plant out for my family. Enoy your fresh fruits and veggies "Calif" and Happy Easter!!!

Swiss chard. One bundle in the grocery store costs $2.25 or something like that. One seed packet costs $2.25 or something like that. One-third of a seed packet kept me in chard all summer last year, say 10 bundles-worth. The big pot I bought to sow them into cost $20, but it'll be good for at least 10 years, so the amortized cost is less than a 2nd bundle of chard. The soil I bought to put in the pot cost $1.49, but it went into my raised veggie bed for this year, so I'll be reusing it indefinitely. Call it 15c and add it to the cost of the pot and it's still only a 2nd bundle of chard. I got 8 bundles of chard for free last year, and all the chard I grow this and next year (to finish up that seed packet) will be free. Also for free all 3 years is the satisfaction of harvesting my own veggies -- as the Mastercard ads say, "priceless." ;-D

Heh! I bought one chard from a woman who has a small nursery booth at the Jack London Square Farmers Market and it's doing quite well. Her prices were incredibly reasonable. I'll have to see if I have her card still. That's not my normal Farmers Market. Anyway, the chard is doing extremely well. Even though I usually have to be dragged to a serving of greens, I use the chard in place of lettuce in sandwiches and that has turned out fine. Considering how fast any vegetable I buy rots in the fridge before I get myself psyched to eat it, live vegetables that last until I pick them are a great savings. Unfortunately for me, I compost as much stuff in my fridge crisper as I do in my outdoor composter!

Don't forget asparagus! If you like it that is... LOL!!! This is my first year getting a 'good' crop! Yummy yummy yummy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not to mention it's a coveted PERENNIAL vegetable!!! WOOT!!

Nicole

Chard- For sure cost effective.
How about raspberries? My canes were put in over ten years ago and I hardly do a thing $ -wise , to them. They are worth it, if you like raspberries, like my mom.
Blueberries, I think.
Irish potatos.
But for sure most of my produce is not cost effective compared to the stand. (had to buy fencing to keep the critters out) I still have to plant for fun., exercise, therapy. It's the only way to get a pea right off the vine that the kid WILL eat, rather than out of the freezer.
My neighbor grows a lot of onions, which are pretty cheap at the store but then again, you use them all the time so I guess that's worth it. Garlic can hardy be worth it when it's 25 cents a head here and I use so little.

How can you afford not to know exactly how the food served your children was grown? This is the most compelling reason to grow your own food, even if at times you expend more money in the long run (rare it happens I think). **note** sometimes I think rarely**.

I don't have kids so that's not an issue. And a lot of times a local farmer is going to be able to grow something that's better and safer than what I come up with. I live on a street that was later made (unwisely) into a highway. There's a lot of dark dust inside my house and I'm sure auto pollution falls on my yard, too. Still, I grow.

I am currently growing Elsie's Choice raspberries, an unnamed Olallieberry and Boysenberry, the aforementioned chard, rhubarb, artichokes, blueberries, Berggarten sage, Italian parsley, French thyme, creeping thyme, Newton Pippin, Hauer Pippin, Belle de Boskoop, Comice pear, Le Grand nectarine, Flavor Delight aprium, Royal apricot, Garden Prince almond, Elephant Heart plum, Blue Damson plum, Green Gage plum, Eva's Pride peach, Big Jim and Champagne loquats, Pineapple Guava, Pixwell gooseberry, a red currant variety I can't remember, Washington naval orange, Moro blood orange, Oro Blanco grapefruit, Bearss lime, Improved Meyer lemon... Some of these are still too young to bear.

I was recovering from surgery so I was late starting seeds. I'm going to put things out anyway and see how they do. I just put out seed potatoes for La Ratte fingerling and Peruvian Purple fingerling. I started Taichung snow peas and arugula and interplanted them with the potatoes (along with some companion Calendulas) I have a bunch of Seascape strawberry plugs that I hope don't die before I can plant them this weekend. I have Rosa dumalis starts (for the hips) that I hope survive their leggy beginning. The Clemson Spineless 80 okra, Montpelier bush beans, Moon & Stars watermelon, Spaghetti squash and orange and yellow peppers have FINALLY broken soil in the starter pots. I'll plant them as soon as they can stand it. I totally missed the garlic planting time in October. I wasn't experienced enough to realize it came then. I had only harvested them a month or two before!

Homegrown garlic is much better than what I could get at the store. The varieties I bought had a LOT more bite. That came in handy when I was fighting off a horrible cold. I just ate a raw garlic clove and though it was rough, it helped clear my sinuses. I used it more conventionally in cooking as well and it was great.

I bought some fennel at the store and used most of the stalks in making a quiche. I left it on the kitchen table, meaning to get around to putting it into the compost. When I realized that the one teeny leaf branch left was growing with NO SOIL and NO WATER, I planted it in a faroff corner of the yard. I hope it doesn't take over. Fennel grows readily in vacant lots here. Local experts recommend growing only Bronze fennel because it isn't as invasive. I don't think the commercial stuff is the same type.

I have more flowers and veggies to start but haven't gotten around to it yet. Parsnips, carrots, onions, leeks, lettuces...

This message was edited Apr 10, 2007 3:00 PM

chard lady here. The veggies I'm growing this year fall into 4 categories: 1) yummy stuff that costs too much in the store, or is outright unavailable here; 2) stuff that tastes so much better fresh than storebought it's a crime to buy it; 3) stuff that's so easy to grow I may as well fill up the veggie bed's corners with it; 4) things that attract beneficial insects or repel the bad guys.

1) Artichokes, leeks, chard, bok choi, husk cherries. 2) Potatoes, tomatoes. 3) snow peas, lettuce, mesclun, radishes. 4) hyssop, rue, dill, marigolds.

'chard lady' : ^ )
I think you summed it up very well !!

I agree, gardening and food growing is expensive. Unless one moves into a yard with great sun, wonderful soil, was given a shed load of tools and supplies and knows people who love to share plants for free...this is an expensive venture. I too am composting but that is a slow process...

We were just planting ONE tomato plant 15 minutes ago and my better half added up the cost...a wine barrel $15, new blade for the chain saw to cut in half $8.00, the plant $4.00 enough soil to fill the 25 gallon bucket, $15, fertilizer, $10, plus tools, time, water, etc.

Ok, so the tool will get more use and the fertilizer will do the whole summer, but it still isn't cheap...I have a lot more to plant!

I have apx 20 different tomato varieties that need planting...we have a bunch of strawberries, peas, thumbalina carrots, kiwi vine, loofah, 3 types of squash, 2 types of melon, and another trip to the store tomorrow for more soil. I am also raising a lot of Hosta seedlings and other plants for the yard and such....NOT cheap.

He even said to me..." have you really thought about the fact that YOU are the only one that likes tomatoes in this family?" lol

I am doing this to learn it, teach my 4 kids, 2 of which have a good interest, I want them to grow up in this atmosphere and it gets me outside a lot. I was raised with grandparents and family that all had huge gardens, but I was too young at the time...then they got too old and I did not get to learn it all. Learning and doing is cheaper and more fun than taking a class.

The big pay off is when I will have that plate of heirloom tomatoes and not have to pay $5.99 a pound in the store!......

All in all and I think the two rest homes close to us will enjoy the extra veggies...:)

Ah, but you are raising hosta from seed instead of plants..... I have spent a lot les s than I could have with propagating and being patient, not filling the yard all at once. (thats one of my favorite savings methods- the Icouldhavespent way)
I think part of the problem is not reaching economies of scale. I do so many specialized tasks for the different thing I grow in small amts for us to eat fresh or only freeze small batches.
just had a batch of my own spinach- man it was awesome!

I switched to flowers. They give me so much enjoyment, and the veggies are so cheap at the corner outdoor market.

I tend to add a couple of tomato plants to my flower garden, and lots of herbs, and I have a couple of blueberry bushes in the mix-- but mostly- I stick to flowers and foilage.

Blessings on your garden,
Elf

I just came across this post. What a great read!

Spidra, I hope your garden is going well. I thought I'd recommend a book for you. "Golden Gate Gardener" by Pam Pierce. She is one of the SF Chronicle writers and teaches at SF City College. I was lucky enough to have her as one of my professors there. It is a great read and full of really valuable information about gardening in our area, specifically, what to grow when from flowers to fruit and everything in between. Surprisingly, we are in one of the best areas in the nation (despite the fog) to grow almost all year round.

Hi Guy's, so good to read all the different comments re growing food, most of the reasons have been covered and I have to agree with them all, but for new gardeners, I feel the problems they find off putting is there expectations are far too high and then dissapointment sets in and thats the end of there gardening, some friends of mine come around my garden and say they will have a veg plot like mine or a shrubery the same, they are looking at years of work, but hey, they want it now, I always advise to start off small, then extend the veg area as your confidence and knowledge grows over the next few years, we are so brainwashed into thinking that if the carrots dont look long and straight like the stores sell, then our home grown ones must be suitable only for the bin, or the tomato's are not all the same shape, well so what, it is what is under the skin of the crop that counts, not only what it looks like, we are not growing to enter a competition, just to cut down on the amount of food aditives we stuff in our mouthes from the suppermarket fruit and veg we buy and also the satisfaction that we managed to produce ourselves, so personally, growing food is as expencive or as cheep as you want it to be, you dont need flashy white plastic raised beds if you find old bricks, railway sleepers or timber, collect it as you go along and make your own beds to the size you can manage, you dont need to spend a fortune on sprays on fertilisers if you can make your own by asking how others feed/ fertilise there plots and just start off growing a few veg that you know your family will eat, even if it is just summer salsd crops till you get the hang of care and attention to there needs, the next year you add more things to the veg plot as you have had time to prepare more soil to accomodate them instead of having hundreds of seedlings all ready at the one time, sow some, them 2 weeks later, sow another of the sme seeds, that way, everything is not ready at the same time and you get a longer growing season, your not thinning out every seed from a packet at the sme time, but a steady 2 weekly thin out, so it is always best to start small, slow but sure, that way, if you find a prob, your whole crop aint waisted, you still have more of the same to grow again. I feel a lot of new gardeners want instant results, we have to learn patience, there are many ways to grow food, either inside huge expensive fruit cages that will never recoup the expence, or a few bushes, trees that we have the time to care for, we should read what goes into the food we eat as far as chemical, the travel, unripeness of the crops as they are picked before the flavour has had a chance to build up, because they are chilled for the journey and wait in a store room till they are red, yellow or whatever, just because the suppermarket think that is what we all want, For instance, I bought some grapes last week, when I got home I read the package, they were grown in Israel, traveled to Asia to be packaged, shiped to Uk for storeage, traveled the length of UK to my local suppermarket and from the date they were picked to the date I bought them was 4 weeks, that is only one example, I know veg that are grown localy, are sent to spain for packaging then back to UK till they are then shop floor ready, tell me that growing and eating your own produce aint cheeper,better for you and taste like food was always meant to be, hope all goes well for our new gardeners, hope they stick it out and get to the librery for some books on the subject, it is fun, healthy and your in the fresh air, now that costs nothing. Good Luck to you all. WeeNel.

When I was a kid, we had two apple trees, a quince bush trained as a small tree, a sour cherry tree, plum trees (4?) mulberries, grapes, pears, and peaches (though the peaches never set fruit, we were too far north). We also had half the back yard turned into a vegetable garden - the only thing we ran out of every year (family of 7) before next spring's harvest was corn. Tomatoes were a close second in the running-out-before-next-harvest arena. We even grew popcorn.

This was on a city lot, and not like the lots in the suburbs today. The garden MIGHT have been 50' x 20' but I'm pretty sure it looked bigger to me when I was 10 than it would look now that I'm nearly 50. I think it was probably actually smaller than that. At least half of our food, for a family of 7, came out of our own back yard. Well, except for the cherry tree, which was on the north side of the house, the mulberries and pears on the south side, and two of the plums that were in the front yard.

What expenses are we talking about anyway? You buy a shovel; you buy a hoe; you buy a trowel. And if you haven't bought cheap junk that's the last time you're likely to buy a tool. Maybe you buy TWO shovels if there are going to be two of you gardening simultaneously. You should sharpen them regularly though, so maybe you need to drop another five bucks on a file.

I used to get my fertilizer for free from a local greenhouse that recycled the fertilized water they used to water their greenhouse plants - you brought in as many milk jugs as you wanted and filled them up. But plant food is not all that expensive. I bought 3 lbs of it for under $5 and that will last me at least all this season, probably for 2 or 3 years actually (given my garden is now very much smaller than it has been for a long time).

You might be able to drop some dough on mulch (I mean hay or straw, not pine bark), but you can usually get that free or create it yourself - shredded newspaper and bagged grass clippings only cost you sweat equity. Surely you can shred newspapers while watching the latest reality show. Just pretend that's Simon's head you're tearing off there, LOL! Also, many municipalities have all the shredded leaves and grass clippings you could want for free or cheap - they pick them up from homeowners and recycle them back to gardeners.

Seeds - cheap, man, cheap! 10c packs at WalMart are fine for most things (stay away from the beans, though, they're expensive packaged that way even if they weren't half broken in the bag, I bet the corn's the same).

Or go to Le Jardin du Gourmet and get the 35c seed packs for all sorts of less plebian, more exotic plants and veggies. I love their 35c seed packets!

Why buy plants? It isn't necessary and it's easy to start your own. I recycle plant paks (4 packs are the best) from other people who are less cheap than I am. I have not had a problem with any sort of disease from doing this in 30 years. You can also use yoghurt containers and the plastic boxes that sour cream, dip, cottage cheese, etc come in. Recycle!

I have, currently, about 15' of space on the west side of a fence in the back (east side) of the house, about a 1' wide strip of soil between the pavement and the fence. I have another 20' x 3' or so along the south side of the house. In this space I have planted: two paste tomatoes; four bell peppers; four hot peppers; green beans; yellow squash; zucchini; watermelon; lettuce; cilantro; gazania; some other flowering plant with feathery spikes whose name escapes me because I'm having a seriously senior moment; dianthus; and vinca. I have basil in pots. I have starts of Tithania and Cosmos to put out front and along the south wall of the house behind the veggies.

I plant via the square foot method. I plant in waves, too - I start lettuce a 4 pack at a time, plant them out, wait a couple of weeks, and start the next batch. When I pull up a plant, I replace it with a start. So I have a constant supply of lettuce (Cos style, Romaine lettuce). Ditto with the Cilantro. I train the water melon along the back of the rest of the garden and up a trellis (use pantyhose to "hang" the melons, obviously this is icebox size watermelon).

I could have done better, but I just moved here about a month and a half ago so I actually did have to buy the peppers and tomato plants prestarted. That total cost was around $6 (it was so late in the growing season that I had to buy the tomatoes in individual pots instead of a 6 pak or 4 pack). Seeds were probably around $3 to $4. I already owned the tools. I did buy some peat moss but I've used hardly any of it - could have done without it.

Start small. Square foot garden. Mulch. Don't buy every fancy tool, but do buy good tools (meaning sturdy, you don't have to go all Smith & Hawkins on me). Water judiciously - drip irrigators and a water timer are worth the investment and are inexpensive when you starting small. Half my garden is actually in flowers, I have around 75 square feet total (and some of it isn't even planted yet), and I'll have plenty of produce (already harvesting the lettuce and cilantro).

Actually, now that I think of it, about 10 square feet of that is taken up by the AC/Central heat unit and all the hoo-hah that goes along with that. So I've probably got more on the order of 65 square feet with a little less than half of that taken up by veggies - call it 30 square feet. You don't have to plant half an acre, and you don't have to spend a fortune doing it. It's VERY economical to grow your own!

Sojourner

Hi Sojourner, your my kind of gardener, reuse everything you can, who needs fashion and gimics in a garden, I was brought up with a dad who gardened the same way as when you were a kid, so it brushed off onto me, you eat what is in season, store/freeze/pickle and make relish, jams when you have a glut, who wants strawberry's when they come from the other side of the world in December, they taste awful, look sick and cost a fortune, but if you grow your own, then freeze, make jam/jelly etc, you can do that with so much stuff that will last you the rest of the year, it just takes time to have that mentality and you do it all the time once you get the hang of it, good for you hope your new garden gives you many years of pleasure. happy gardening. WeeNel.

Hi, Wee Nell (I'm guessing you're from Scotland?). I have basil coming out of my ears - I planted one six pak, dropped it. Thinking all the seed had spilled out, I put more seed in each division. Well, the seed HADN'T spilled out and they nearly all sprouted - I ended up with about 18 basil plants from that one six pak. So I divided each plant out and repotted. Worked fine. All the repotted plants have already put out new leaves (just repotted yesterday).

I still have 4 that need to be repotted but I ran out of pots! LOL! I was using the 4x4 pots that my dad gave me, they had strawberry plants in them earlier this spring.

I forgot on the list above, I also have 2 eggplants. And today I pulled what turned out to be a hazel nut tree/bush out of my flowerbed. It's about the 5th one I've pulled up by accident (I finally figured out where they're coming from - squirrel caches!). So I took it and replanted it on the back fence where there's nothing but a trumpet vine right now. We'll see if it survives.

I actually have a better garden in this tiny space than I've been able to have for the past 9 years on the 26 acres I used to live on. Sometimes smaller is better!

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm glad to be back in the gardening arena again.

Sojourner

Sojourner, Sure am from Bonny Scotland, small is always best, I am only 4ft 11 1/2 inch, so you know what they say, all good things come in small packages, veg gardening is best done small area at a time, as you get to know your soil, the bugs and the disasters before you kill yourself with a plot that is so big, it could feed the nation and cant look after it properly. it also takes time to get the soil into a reasonable condition for all different needs, go slow, better to grow is a good motto, good luck and happy gardening. Weenel.

Wee Nell this is great ...exploring all the forums and this one is close to my heart, My vegs are grown in no dig gardens...I think I have seen the term lasagne gardens in there.So as to expense...yes a little setting it up....but much is free......layers of manure straw etc......almost anything that once was alive.Add a little lime and blood and bone as you go up until about 2 ft high.Then be patient and let it settle .....it will go down a bit in say a month or so .Then you can grow anything ....plant seeds or seedlings into the top layer (a few inches of potting mix or good garden soil) and stand back!.....by the time everything is growing down into the lower layers it will be beautifully broken down by the gardeners friend ...the worm.This method will give you beautiful food and the bonus of much improved earth which won't require any more work other than some mulch every now and then...and if you feel like it a little bit of a fertilizer boost every now and then.Leave each best plant to set seed at the end of the season and you won't need to purchase that seed again.I don't use poison at all only natural methods of growing .......that way I know what I am eating!
They did a test once on mothers milk and the ones eating "healthy "had the highest level of poison in their milk... since that time I have always tried to grow most of my own food!
I think the health benefits of gardenening and eating your own stuff far outweigh costs.....not to mention food tasting like it did when you were a child.If you are short of a quid use grass clippings mixed with scrounged animal poo (cheap as dirt)....stables will gladly let you clean out the stalls (great stuff all that hay and horse do) go on make it your next challenge to go a bit green in the garden.....what price good health and happiness :)

Chrissy Hi, I dont do the lasagne method, I do the crop rotation method
I have 4 beds, all about 4/5 feet wide, one bed for the permenant stuff like Rhubarb, herbs etc, the other three I do crop rotation like one year I manure one bed, grow my peas, beens etc, next bed has had garden lime added in the autumn and left on top so the frost will break up the soil and the weather will carry the lime down, on this I grow all my greens like cabbage, broccoli sprouts, colliflowers etc, third bed, I grow my root veg, like carrots, beetroot, onions, parsnips etc, then the next year, I move them all once, so the peas now grow where the carrots were and it has had manure mixed into it, grow the root veg where last year had the peas and so on, that way I dont get any build up of say cabbage root rot, the carrots dont like fresh manured earth as it causes them to fork, so you just keep rotating each year, thats how my dad did it, so I have just carried on, I have the beds narrow so as I dig just the top soil in the winter, I dont stand on the soil and compact it down, I dont knock out all the lumps as the frost will do that for me then just after feb, I add my animal manure so it is well rotted before I plant anything and I dig it into the soil before I plant, easy on the soil, easy on my back as I had a back opperation about 3 years ago and as the beds are usually filled to the edges and beyond, I dont get a lot of weeds growing either, because of my deer troubles, white butterflies etc these lay eggs on your greens and munch at them, I cover the veg beds with that fine garden fleese, that way I dont get weed seeds, dont have the deer eating me out of house and home, dont get the carrot flies and other bugs, dont need artificial feeds either as the rotation of the beds means everything gets a turn of the manure or limed areas but in a lesser strength as they need. so everyone finds their own way, so long as it works for you, thats all that matters eh, so I dont see what is expensive about growing your own food, it is as expensive and as fancy as you want it to be, but the veg sure dont care how much you spend, they just want the proper growing conditions. Be good chrissy happy gardening, WeeNel.

That is terrific Wee Nell...the way I have done similar in the past ...but where I am the soil is red heavy clay....I have to lift things on top of it rather than dig.The farmers around me are Market gardeners and they have big machines that break up and hill the clay...stuff would rot off otherwise and they use black plastic to warm up the cold clay and to keep weeds off.I think they use some thing to keep the hilled clay crumbly but I don't know what.They also use lots of chemicals!This district is famous for strawberries,
tomatoes,zuchhinis,cabbages and capsicums.The stuff is perfect to look at ...but when I first moved here I asked the lady selling her giant strawberries how did she keep the bugs away and she said "oh I just spray them twice a week"...she was talking about pesticide and fungus stuff......never eaten bought ones since.
I know the people who make a living from the land have to resort to these measures but I have the view that our World is toxic enough without all that pesticide going down the "cake hole" mouth :)

Cant agree more Chrissy about the pestisides, no wonder we have kids with illnesses we never heard of and behavoural problems, dont use artifical feeds or herbisides myself, but to be honest, I find people want a quick fix to any gardening problems, then they say it dont work without realising, even that needs time to work, no one will convince me that bought fruit and veg are better than home grown, I really dont care if the food aint perfect shaped like shop bought, it's what the flavour is like that matters, I know when I worked with kids for a while, they did'nt know where food came from, like asked where milk came from, they thought the answer was from the suppermarket, when I said, no, which animal, they screwed up there faces like yuck, I love it when we hear someone trying to show the kids how to grow beans, peas carrots etc, it teaches them much more about food than reading about it, but hey, I am prob old fashioned in that way, all they seem to know is about Mac Donalds or chicken dippers from the store, have you ever seen what all goes into them, God it should be a criminal offence to sell that as food for kids, the kids I worked with would not eat veg, never tasted some fruits and had no clue what a salad tasted like, I guess lots of mums are either single parents or out at work and find these foods for convenient, wish we could teach them it is cheeper to actualy make your own burgers or chicken dippers that crap ones you buy at the stores. my grandkids go out and pick the veg I want to cook for dinner so they learn what goes into their mouth is good and holesome, guess I just hark back to the old days when your parents grew most of the veg themselves and we had to at some stage help, then we got a little patch of ground for ourselves, OH dear, am I really thay old. YES, is the answer, Weenel.

I want to start veggie gardening, but have no clue where to start, especially since I don't like tomatoes. I am guessing it is too late to start anything here in TX this year, and we will be moving again next spring. Do the vegetables you start with depend a lot on where you live at? Also, if you mix veggies into your flower beds, is there anything you should avoid planting together? I have only done a perennial garden with transplanted plants (Ohio), and a container herb garden with transplanted plants before (Minnesota and Ohio). The good thing about transplanted plants is that you get an instant garden if you are not going to be around long enough to build it up a little at a time, and then you can give your plants away as gifts to friends when you have to move again (military). I am a little scared about trying to start plants from seed since I had a confirmed brown thumb before the last few years. I sure would appreciate any suggestions so I know where to start doing my homework before next spring. Also, I was wondering about using manure on edibles - I worry about some sort of diseases being passed that way - is this just my imagination getting the better of me?