Time to show off those daffodils!

Neal, you must be going off the website (?) because 'Spanish Fiesta' is on page 27 of the 2007 catalog. $6.00. The catalog has maybe 20x or 30x more listings than the webpage as is worth writing or emailing for.

Patti, getting photos from my camera to DG is an onerous effort due to software problems and I forgot to say how gorgeous your flowers were, though I was thinking it, if that counts! You do have a huge collection!

Suzy

Suzy, I'm so goofy, I don't know what I was thinking of; I got my paper catalog out and 'Spanish Fiesta' is one I've even put a star by, LOL. Seems like there was one you recommended to me that I could'nt find in the catalog, but now its a blur. Moving has left me completely addle minded, lol. Do you have experience with 'Cherry Creme'? Such a beauty, got to have it! The second pic down:

http://www.web-ster.com/havensr/mitsch/garden.html

Yes, I bought Cherry Creme, too. Loved it, LOVED IT!

I bought at least one of every split corona and fluffy corona bulb they sold last year. I have some photos, but they were taken when the flowers were way too old because I procrastinated.

Here is a half-dead 'Fire Drill'. It is too old to have its picture taken, and not really a picture that will sell the flower, but shows the basic color and shape of the corona. The petals were wider and laying a lot flatter when it was fresh.
For a flower with a white corona, it was very bright in the garden.

And here is one, but I forgot its name by the time I got the pictures off the darn camera!

It's either Hungarian Rhapsody with pale color, which happens a lot from the Pacific NW descritption to the midwest gardens, or else it's 'Latin Music' which isn't in their catalog any more.

Sorry about the black border on the pic...I had to stand on my head practically to get this picture.

Suzy

Oh my, you guys are playing in the major leagues. I have a lot of common ones. I went to look at the site for Spanish Fiesta and my Yankee pocket almost kept me at bay, but I think if I order only 3 of several of the more affordable ones I will succumb. His are so beautiful. I wish he had more pictures posted, or perhaps that would be a disaster on my budget. I have some new beds that are Narcissus-less. Which is not a good thing.

After a lot of looking I think my pinkish one I was trying to id is 'Pink Charm' as it was hybridized in 1977 and I bought it in the early 80's as a "new" color. The picture matches best of all that I have looked at. Patti

Actually, Patti, You *are* in the big league. 'Fragrant Rose' was about $10.00 a bulb when it was introduced from Northern Ireland in 1978. It was quite a sensation. It might have been more expensive, I can't find my old catalogs, but either way, that was a fortune for a single bulb, plus we had to pay freight and phyto. 'Goose Green' (I think you have the name backwards) was about $4.00 *if* you could get it, but that was also a fortune back in 1983 (Ireland). 'Merlin' and 'Goose Green' are very similar and I think bloom at the same time, so you might put 'Merlin' on the backburner for a while. 'Misty Glen' also, started life as an impeccable show flower...from the mid 70s. It was hybridized and shown, but not available to us for years and years because it had to rely on bulb increase from a single bulb for the whole world stock. (As all of them that aren't a grex) It's not until the Dutch bulb growers pick up a bulb that it becomes truly affordable.

A lot of very great ones are becoming more available thanks to the efforts of Brent Heath, the American Daffodil Society, and Jan Pennings who is the head of the export bulb business in Holland. (And that's not his real job or title, but he is some sort of bigwig with an interest in taking a chance & branching out with different daffodil varieties. LOL!) Back in the early 80s, most of the bulbs available were at least 40 years old.

Back in 1982, I think the only white trumpet you could buy was 'Mt Hood', but it should have bloomed long before now because it's a pretty early bloomer.

Neal, Your 'Pipit' was a Grant Mitsch flower, and you both probably have 'Intrigue', which was a Bill Pannill introduction. 'Intrigue' might be the number one show flower, definitely the number one jonquil (div 7) and has been for over a decade.

Suzy

Suzy, thanks, I will fix my Goose. My, (what I think) Mt hood first opened on April 26, but still has blooms. DH and I helped plant the first bulbs in the late 70's for the Nantucket Daffodil festival that was started by a wonderful women, Jean MacAusland, for an island-wide planting of millions of daffodils to line the public ways of the island. We were told to sign up for an area to plant and asked to list the # of bags we would commit to plant. Well, we said, something like ten. Ha, the bags where so big that it took two people to move each bag. We planted for weeks along the roads. We need to do some transplanting of some of the big masses in front of our property as they are so crowded. We can't see them from our house, but it makes the road look wonderful. There is a big show, but showing is not my thing. I like to see them in the garden, but who knows. I could get totally hooked.

Patti

I am really enjoying 'Segovia'. It has lasted well. Patti

Here is 'Hawera' planted with tulipa 'Antoinette' and 'Apricot Beauty' which I thought was about done, but it is throwing up some new smaller blooms which is very nice. Patti

I found my 'Thalia', which I knew I had planted years ago. But there is another one which I have a great many of that opens a bit sooner and has a some pale yellow that is planted in the same area. I would love Id help on it. Thanks, Patti

Patti -- Those are both excellent flowers -- Hawera an old div 5 mini that grows and grows (and reblooms as you noticed with that second flush) and isn't as persnickity as other div 5 minis (by a long shot).

Segovia is a place in Spain where a lot of miniature species daffodils (from which we get our hybrid miniatures) are native and grow wild. I haven't been there, but I gather it is in the mountains.

I have an interesting story about Hawera -- and how it's pronounced. For years and years I pronounced it 'Haw AIR uh', only to find out from a New Zealander it is actually named for a place in New Zealand pronounced HAW-err-uh. It sounds sort of slurred if you say it the right way.

Suzy

This little one is finally fully opened, narcissus jonquilla simplex. Patti

Didja smell it?

Suzy

Suzy, I did smell it as it said it was "fragrant", but I am not sure it is the smell I expected. I am practising my slur as I double ordered 'Hawera', and have planted it in several places. It is a good thing that I like it. Those coops sure helped with filling up the yard with new narcissus. My DH has been to Segovia, but not I. Perhaps a good reason to go. Here is what I am pretty sure is 'Thalia'. Please tell me if it is not. Patti

Patti, Segovia is so cute! I love those graceful, wildflowery looking varieties. I'm not sure that is 'Thalia' you've got there; mine has narrower petals.

Suzy, you may know the answer to this. I have one that I bought years ago that was said to be a double sport of 'Thalia' in which only the cup is doubled. Do you know the name? Seems like no one is selling it anymore.

gemini_sage, I am seeing what you are saying about 'Thalia" and my NOID's. I keep looking at lots of sites and it is now evident that I need to buy a good book on Narcissus. Not too far fetched as I was a bookseller for 30 years. What book or books do any of you recommend? I can eliminate many by the year of introduction as I know about when I planted these. I also remember planting 'Ice Follies' somewhere. I have seen some posting that make it's cup fade to near white from a soft pale yellow as described in Brent and Becky's catalog. All this investigation is much more fun than watching CSI. Plus it is cold and rainy today so no yard work today. Thanks for all your help. Patti

Patti, I think I'm about where you are in needing a good book on Narcissus.

Suzy, I'll bet you can recommend some good ones. I've been considering the one by Brent Heath.

To be honest, I am a daffodil judge and any panel I judge on will dismiss Thalia in a heatbeat and award it no ribbon because it automatically gets 30 points off for form, substance and texture, *unless* it's in the Histroric section, where it belongs. Really it belongs in the garden, not the show bench at all, but that's just my opinion and not that of my daffodil judge persona. LOL!

Take a look at Tresamble http://daffseek.org/query-detail.php?value1=Tresamble&lastpage=5. Neal, White Marvel is a double sport of Treamble, not Thalia, but I believe that's the one you're talking about.

Daffodil books -- for identification? If so, I'd go to www.daffseek.org instead. You know that flower is white petals, white corona and a division 5. It would be an older one prior to 1970 for sure. Plug in that information and start looking at the photos for the match.

Pati, the old NOIDs you showed would be flowers from the 1950s or before. A quick lesson -- a div 1 is a trumpet where the corona is LONGER than the petals. a div 2 is a longcup. A div 3 is a short cup. The rest of the divisions are fairly easy.

If you want the daffodil book for culture, check out the B&B book from the library and see if there is anything you didn't already know in it before you buy it. i always thought it was for 24 year olds with their first house and first gardening experience.

If you want something more technical, you can but the handbook for growing and showing daffodils from the ADS website. It has hardly any pictures, but will have every single thing you could want to know in a very condensed form. Cheap -- maybe $8.00 without the binder? There is a booklet Iwould definitely recommend -- Growing Miniatures by Delia Bankhead, also from the ADS. In it she shows the differences between the miniature daffodils that are on the market. The reason I suggest it is because the Dutch bulb importers substitute varietes when they ship to a place like B&B all the time. So if you order Sun Disc, you have a good chance of getting Sundial. This book has a lot of photos -- in fact, it's nearly all photos. Its about $7.00.

Not that this is a commercial for ADS, because it's not. There is just nothing else between the baby-ish B&B book and the mor technical and boring ADS material. Just by your posts here and there I htink you are both past the B&B book by a decade or two. :)

Suzy




This message was edited May 18, 2007 1:35 PM

Suzy, I just looked at the daffseek site. I had no idea that there are so many Narcissus. I am very grateful to your post. I will get the Bankhead book. It is true too, in the book industry that a title published in England is often published under a different title in the U.S. Very confusing. Again thanks for the information. Now div 1.2.3 make sense. Another question, is this correct, All those called Daffodils and Jonquils are really commonly used names for every thing in the genus Narcissus. But that really Jonquils are in a Division of their own (Div Seven). Thus referring to Mt hood as a daffodil is OK, but it should not be called a Jonquil. But it is OK to call any Narcissus in Div 7 a daffodil. I only ask because I have a friend who insists that every Narcissus is just a fancy name for a jonquil. Have you come to Nantucket to judge? Let me know if you ever what to come for the festival. I could put yellow sheets on the guest bed. Patti

LOL! Yellow sheets would be hard to resist!

Yes you are correct, and your friend is wrong. All jonquils are Daffodils, but not all daffodils are jonquils. All Daffodils are Narcissus. (English VS Latin names), so it would be true that Narcissus is just a fancy name for Daffodil. Perhaps that's what your friend was thinking of?

I have never been to Nantucket to judge, although I was invited a few years back...it would be a long plane ride, and a long ferry ride? Is that right? Or is it another airplane ride on a puddle jumper? I forget now, but whatever it was, it was time consuming and expensive, although I'd love to see the festival.

Suzy

Suzy, You can puddle jump from Hyannis or fast ferry ( a little over an hour) or reg steamship ( a little over 2 hrs) If you got a cheap flight into Hartford, Ct or Providence, R. I or Boston, I could pick you up and drive you down to Hyannis and then back to airport. We have a little house in Southern Vt ( with a few narcissus) so I keep a car on the mainland and am always picking people up. You could have a whole second spring in the same year and I could get you to Id my NOIDS. I just went on Van Engelen to order 2007 bulbs. Boy was this an expensive morning. I may have to renege on those new yellow sheets in the guest room. Patti

Just caught up with this thread. Lots of good info here and pretty pics, too.

Interesting to hear your comments about Thalia, Illoquin, since I see it pictured and mentioned a lot on the show bench! They are pretty under my dogwoods, though! The DaffSeek link is pretty useful, especially if you kind of know what you are looking for. I am happy you gave it and the ADS a plug. Their website doesn't get much mention on the web, and the search is very useful if you kind of know what you are looking for (not so good if you just want to look at pretty daff pics to plan the garden, though.)

bbookrd--love all your pics. Would love to tour your garden in May to see your daffs in situ. That's the way I like them, too, although not right now when their foliage is really pretty ugly amid my blooming irises! Would love to see how you deal with the dying foliage, unless you have acres of space to set out separate daff gardens and can divert the eye away.

Illoquine, must get a n. 'notre dame' . That's where DH went to school (and I went to SMC). Is that one show-worthy?

Beautiful weather for gardens this weekend. It's been cool here and the flowers have been lasting a long time (unusual for us). Hope to take some pictures.

I put two new varieties in last fall which I am very pleased with. This one is Billy Graham.

I was waiting for the next one, but I need to go to bed -- LOVE 'Billy Graham'!!! Very nice form and color.

Suzy

Sorry. I forgot the name and had to go out to my garden with a flashlight to find the name tag. This one is Narcissus canaliculatus.

LOL! I have had to do that with a flashlight a time or two myself. It's really bad when I go to all that trouble and forget again before I can type it into a post!

I can't get Canaliculatus to bloom in subsequent years, although I get really nice foliage ;) If you have trouble getting it to bloom next year, I heard to plant it on the south side under a big ole shrub, like a juniper, where it gets no extra water in summer than what falls from the sky. That tidbit comes from the Cincinatti area. A guy in Englad planted it in his gravel driveway with good results!

In any case, it's lovely this year!

Suzy

Thanks for the warning and advice. I planted several clumps. Maybe I'll move some to drier areas after the foliage dies down. I actually have a gravel driveway but don't think I have the nerve to plant my bulbs there. But that does give me an idea. I have some beds on the alley (near the gravel driveway) that get pretty dry and I rarely water as it is so inconvenient. Maybe I'll try some there.

Thanks for the heads up on N.canaliculatus; I was wondering why mine did'nt bloom this year. They are still in my old garden, a moist, woodland setting, so no wonder they did'nt bloom. I have lots of water hogging trees and shrubs here, so I should be able to make them happy now :)

Suzy, you are a wealth of information; thanks so much for sharing!

I'm glad you said that, Neal.

Let me offer one more up -- 'Golden Bells', a bulbocodium that is commercially available. It was never designed for garden growing because it is a pot plant. The kind of pot plant you see at the grocery store in full bloom for $4.00 a pot. It will probably bloom in your garden the first year like a champ and then fizzles out to nothing.

Once having said that, I'm not sure what it would do in Texas, Arkansas, or Phoenix, so making a post on DG about it is very risky! LOL! I'll probably get 10 more people posting and telling me how great it is.

'Tete a Tete' is the most common of the potted daffodils, but it was born a garden flower first and then moved to be a potted plant when it was deemed ideal for that purpose. Nowadays it is hard to find one that isn't virused.

Chris, I should be seeing one of the midwest's premier miniature growers this weekend and I'll ask her if she can get Canaliculatus to bloom, and if so, how she does it. She lives in Garden Prarie Illinois, right up by you.

Suzy

Thanks, Suzy. I'll be anxious to hear what you learn. The Canaliculatus are so cute and make a sweet addition to a bouquet. I hope I can learn how to keep them blooming.
Chris

New Narcissus blooms yesterday. The sweet little 'New Baby' narcissus. Still to come (I hope) 'Double Poet', 'Erlicheer', 'Yellow Cheerfulness' and then that is all for 2007, sad, but true. Patti

I'm Baaaaack!! Had a blast, but am a little stiff. I thought everybody was in an extra-good mood because they were always smiling at me. When the day was over and I went back to the motel, I saw why -- my face was covered with mud and they were laughing at what a pig I was. LOL! (sweat + soil = mud).

If you can imagine rows and rows of daffodils 3 clumps deep and as long as a football field coded with the parents' names and the color code 2Y-Y or 2W-P or 2W-R ,etc. and undercut with a potato digger and then being told you can have whatever you want, that was my weekend!

We called it the "All You Can Dig Buffet" and believe it or not, there were still plenty left after all 20 of us tried to take whatever we could dig/lift out of the ground and drag back to our SUVs. Minnestoans (9 of the 11) came in a humongeous extra-big SUV and pulled a darn trailer home they had filled to the brim with only bulbs!

I also went to the all you can dig Allium bar and got 2 big bulb crates of Allium christophii.

I also got about 80 pounds of named daffodils and about 30 pounds of named New Zealand bulbs that he lost the names to. That was sad!

Everybody there was over 50 years old, and it was pretty darn funny watching us get up off the ground and trying to read little tags without our glasses. :)) I was doing reall well until the tractor ran over my glasses.

Chris,

I asked my friend and she can't get Canilaculatis to bloom any year except the first year down from Dutch bulbs -- AND she went on to say the second year she gets foliage and the third year she gets nothing. I asked very pertinent questions and the bottom line was she already tried putting them every where wondering if it was location-related, but finally came to the conclusion that Chicago is too cold for tazettas. Keep in mind this is the premier minature grower in the midwest and someone in the top 5 across the entire Northern hemisphere and she knows what she's doing.

Suzy

Sounds like a fun and productive weekend. Except for losing your glasses! And you got some allium in on the deal. That's great. Now I would like to see your garden next spring with all those New Zealand daffs in it!

bbookrd, it is hard for me to believe that you still have 'cheerfulness' blooming in Zone 7a. It seems like mine were gone a month ago.

Well, now, here's the dumb part. I'm not keeping anything I dug except a dozen or so Allium and a peony I snagged. The rest get dried and our local daffodil society has a sale to pump up the coffers.

Cinty was represented by Bill and Fred, so you guys have everything I have here.....your sale is at the Civic Center? Is that right? Of everything, of course, the named varieties are the best, but if they are too pricey, get those NZ named Varities that lost the name tags -- ya can't show them, but you said you were going to give up on that idea, anyway. NZ flowers are ALWAYS early, so you have time to get them some sun, even if you plant in the shade because of the angle of the sun in late Mar/1st week Apr. (I would also put in here that MA has some really late springs....it would be real gardening shock to go there from the midwest, but I bet she planted those Yellow Cheerfuless sort of late in the year last fall....maybe she purchased them at the 75% off bulb sale and planted them the last thing? :))

Chris, Your sale is at the Chicago Botanic Gardens, I think -- and I would offer you the same advice as Tabasco.... snag those NZ bulbs!

Suzy (with her extra set of glasses on)

I just dug up some daffodil bulbs that were in my annual bed and I couldn't plant around them; they refused to dry up and lay down, even with our hot dry spring--they are still very green and rigid. What now???....can I lay them out to dry in the garage?... leave the leaves on them until they dry????

Tammy, the garage floor holds a lot of moisture I found out the hard way. If you're having the same weather as we are, can you lay them on top of mulch or on top of ground cover outside in the garden in part shade, part sun? If it rains, it's no big deal, bbelieve it or not. If you don't have a spot like that, then you need to hang them, not lay them on the cement floor. We use net onion sacks, but we buy them by the 5,000 and I'm not sure where you'd get just one or two. (Even a cement or blacktop driveway holds a lot of moisture.)

A daffodil lady I once knew said the "energy" in the foliage and roots will return to the bulb, so when you dig them green you should leave all that stuff on until it dries. She had a doctorate in botany, but I'm not still not sure if it was an old wives' tale or not.

Suzy

Thanks, Suzy....I've got a few net potato sacks and a few old mesh laundry bags that should work. I have always heard that too--don't cut the leaves off; so I will just let them stick out of the bag until they are dry. THANKS AGAIN, Tammy

You're welcome -- good luck!

Oh Suzy, how clean should the bulbs be?....just brush offmost of the soill that is dried to them, or dip them and wash them clean?

Most growers don't wet their bulbs after digging except under extreme curcumstances where the soil is so wet it is coming up in huge clods that are sticking to the bulbs.

Just shake off most the soil and let them dry in the hot sun. When you go to bag them, you can massage off some of the clumps of dried soil, taking care to get between the noses on double/triple nose bulbs, and around the roots. If you have quad nose or quint nose bulbs, break them in half, but otherwise leave all the noses together to prevent infection. If you find you've broken a lot in half, sulphur dust is what we use here.

HOT and DRY over summer are the key to curing bulbs. A fan is what most of us use if the bulbs are wet during harvest.. This year they were dry, so no fans here.

If you are selling them, then you don a pair of gloves in Aug-Sept after they are bone dry and massage the outermost papery tunic off the bulbs. When this comes off, the soil also comes off, leaving you with a very pretty bulb. Then you massage the roots off. The foliage will be loose, so just throw that away.

If you are replanting at your house, just dry them and replant them in September (after Labor Day). Leave the soil, the papery tunic and the roots if it's just for yourself.

Never mix bulbs of more than one kind (variety) in the same planting hole, even if you are naturalizing. It looks bad the first year and every year after that, and is considered "lazy", messy and unkept by those in the know. You may plant them in different holes very close to each other, but it is very visible if you put them in the same hole.

Suzy