Help with stones and soil

In looking out at my yard that is covered under standing water right now I have decided I need to raise the bed some! I haven't even been gardening a year. Last summer, instead of mulching this huge burm that runs the length of our yar I decided I would start spending time and $ on filling it with stuff and making a natural looking woodland garden. The weather pattern over the past few weeks had wreaked havoc and I fear that any of the bulbs or hostas that I planted wil actually return. As a result I think I have to not so much have a natural woodland garden but make some beds and add topsoil to raise them. My plan has alwys been to have a winding path throughout that passes through a seating area and then out the other side.

I want to start researching and planning to do this. I figured I can use large rocks to outline the beds and add soil in varying degrees. However I know NOTHING to even begin and have even less in the way of vision for what it will look like. What kind of rocks do I look for and where? What is a good price? Do I hve to buy topsoil by the bag? Do nurseries sel it by the truck?

Here is a picture of it under water and the next post I will put picture of it from last summer before I planted anything. If you see any ideas I would sure love to hear them!

Here is the same space in summer

You should be careful about adding soil there--many trees don't like to have the soil level above their root zones changed, and much of the area where the water is looks like it would be within the root zone of your trees. Although they might not like sitting there in standing water either! If you want to get rid of the standing water, you might be OK adding a little bit of soil, just enough to level out the area so water doesn't collect, but I would not make a raised bed there, that might be too hard on the trees.

I never even thought of that (see I really AM a beginner :) ) Maybe the area where there is the worst of the standing water I can rais a bit but not as it goes back toward the tree trunk. What do you think?

pegz,

does this area normally flood year round, or just winters?

I''m thinking you may be surprised at what comes up this spring.

This is only our second winter here but it didn't do this last year at all. I think (hope??) this is a fluke this year due to the sequence of the weather pattern. I wasn't concerned all that much until I waled out there the other day and saw it was an inch or 2 of water covered in a layer of ice. That had me worried thatthe ground was saturated so much and then we had that ice storm last weekend and it just trapped all that water. I poked holes in the ice to try and get the water to the surface - which worked some but then the rain came and turned it into what you see above. Now we've gotten more ice/snow last night so it is all snow covered again but I don't know if it is frozen. I will wait and see what comes up I think. Regardless I have to in order to change anything because I have so many baby hosta in there waiting to come up and be relocated. I participated in several co-ops last year for hostas and there are probably 75 babies under that water - it was my area to keep them a year while they grew since my sprinkler system hits that spot. I am so worried about them!!!

I would only raise the area enough to make it level and not any more than that, the trees' roots extend out quite a ways from where the trunk is, and anywhere that the tree has significant roots present you don't want to change the soil level significantly. I'm guessing the area's not that far away from level so you probably won't have to add too much soil to level it out.

And you may be surprised about what plants will survive--many plants are able to handle more moisture in the winter than they can in the summer, what happens in the summer if you have too much moisture is that warmth + moisture = fungal growth, but in the winter you're missing the warmth part of that equation so the fungus can't get going as easily, plus the plants are dormant so it's harder to damage them. You can still have problems with things rotting in the winter, but I think there's a good chance a lot of your stuff will come back for you.

I think you'll be surprised come spring. The water is probably not moving because the ground might be frozen. Even if the ground is not frozen, I think it will be okay, as the hosta are all dormant anyway. they're sleeping.ZZzzzzzzz. As for the raising of the soil. the trees get their water at the drip line. ( the widest part of the tree where the water would drip off the foliage.)And if you want to raise the soil a significant amount, you can do this by adding a layer of drainage material first, such as crush stones. BUT don't put any soil up against the tree trunks, because that area is used to being dry and could rot if you raise the soil level. The same reason you never change the existing soil level when you newly plant any tree. So you would have to put crushed stone up against the trees.

Thanks! You guys are not only very helpful but you are giving me a lot of hope :) Thanks!!

pegz,

i do think your ground is frozen. (I just mapquested where you are located)
with the weather the mid-west has gotten this past month or so.... it's frozen.

with the lil warm up we just had, the top inch or so for me defrosted (pure mud for the pooch)
but then it's frozen solid again.

Glad you are feeling a bit better about your plant babes --

here's to hoping (praying) this nasty weather goes away.

Terese

Hey, pegzhere - It really sounds like we're like souls or something - I'm also just preparing to begin a woodland in my back yard and have been studying it since last summer. I was able to plant some understory shrubs last Fall, and right now they are standing in some water too. A favorite book I have is called "Woodland Garden - Planting in Harmony with Nature" by Roy Forster and Alex Downie. This book is very practical and easy to understand, plus it gives some great creative ideas on what plants you may want. Because I love animals, I am also building a berm, but I'm making the bottom of it into a habitat for small animals to live, hide, and breed. I will be building it up this spring when I trim the canopy, building a base of wood branches, twigs, leaves, etc. for them to build homes in before I cover it with soil and compost. That way you don't need as much soil. I'm going to make part of the top into a rock garden by placing stones into the berm. Would love to talk with you more as you begin - can hardly wait to get to work on it in the next month. Here are a couple of pics of the area - looks kind of like yours, doesn't it? Dax

This pic shows where I am putting the berm - to the right - the path will go in between the berm and the bed on the right where the bench is -

Oops, the bench wasn't there yet when this pic was taken last May - I want to make sure I keep those woodland phlox that were growing naturally there - Dax

This message was edited Mar 2, 2007 5:08 PM

WOW Dax - you are right! I will have to getthat book because I have been sort of willy nilly about it. I don't have huge vision and have figured I need to get stuff growing and as it grows I will be able to better see where it goes. Yours sounds like it will be a really special place and yes they do lok a bit alike - although you have more privacy beyond - very nice!

So the bench is by the woodland phlox? Those are beauties! How do you feel about making a berm now after reading above about raising the bed around trees? How will you do it?

Hi, pegzhere - by the way, did you ever get my d-mail with the Round-up info? Anyway, re: the berm, I've found with these trees that because they are natives, and have been there a long time, they are very hardy. As long as you don't cover ALL the roots all the way around, they adjust very well. Just two years ago, I had to take out a bunch of roots on a linden to put in my pond and stream, and before that we had to cover a large section of oak roots to put in our asphalt driveway. In both cases, the roots were left for about 1/2 to 3/4 of the space around the trees. The asphalt was put in 20 years ago now, and the oak is very healthy. The linden is also very healthy. Also, you may want to actually remove some of the trees in order to provide more sun for that area for your woodland plants. If so, you could simply take out one or two trees where you are going to build up the berm, and no harm will be done. I expect to take out about 3-4 of the smaller scrubs in the area for my woodland. A little more sun will give you alot more choices in flowering plants. You'll read alot about high shade and bright shade. - Hope you can make it to the round-up, so we can share ideas - since my gardens are going to be on the Round-up Garden Tour, it could be a great chance to chat! Dax