Thanks Kell! You don't waste any time!
TEL is his initials. In his PhD thesis he cites his collection number 622 from Laguna La Cocha as a probable vulc/sang hybrid. This is 621!! He doesn't cite 621 at all, either as a hybrid or as non-hybrid vulcanicola. But he didn't cite all of his collections, only represenative ones.
So it doesn't quite all connect up nicely!!! So close though :-(
Vulcanicola !
I suspect one would have to go back to his original field books, which may be deposited in the Harvard University Herbaria or Harvard College Library..
I am impressed and in awe of the knowledge in this thread. You make it look and sound so easy. Thanks so much for sharing with the rest of us. I think I need to buy that book Alistair mentioned. Would Barnes and Nobles have it or would I need to order it ?
"Kell-Scissorhand" please don't forget your buddy in Myrtle Beach SC.....she will "baby" the lil cuttings to death ~~just kidding. This is just so much fun to read.
My "Documents" folder mainly consist of photos of brugs, how-to's of brugs, and recipes for brugs....and of course, family photographs, too LOL
God bless, Margo
MArgo, the book is not available in any book store. When Lockwood died his parents was against to have his thesis made public, but it can be ordered as a photo copy from Harvard University Library (I think it was where I ordered mine. It is expensive though (123 $) and by ordering it I had to sign an agreement, that I will not copy or lend out the papers (From where do they know all this stuff about me ROFLOL)
I use to live close to the Arboretum, back when i lived in sanfrancico i use to live on second ave across from golden gate park
You certainly got us going Margo LOL
If you were referring to the book by Preissel, Amazon.com have it in stock (reduced!)
This message was edited Feb 2, 2007 8:20 AM
...still chopping up pieces, here...
7,000,000.77... for 372 pieces divided into 1/444 th's of an inch...
Let's see...eBay's cut would be about 1,500,00.00
Paypal's cut about 750,000.00
That would leave a profit of over 4 million!
I could buy a veritable Mount Everest of high quality potting soil with that! AND a guy to shovel it into the pots for me!!!
...this is sounding better all the time.
Time for getting in shape. Kell and I have to scale the fence at Strybing...in guise of night, faces blackened, navy stretch hat, full commando gear, climbing boots and the finest Japanese pruners money can buy oiled and ready for action.
Allistair...If you drive us there, we'll give you a cut! :-)
Then...we will establish a Vulcanicola DYNASTY!
MMMWWWAAHHHHHAHAH!!
(I'm scaring myself).
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 4:26 PM
Hi again Alistair ! Yes, that's the one. I will order it today...probably within the next 15 minutes, lol. I am so glad I "got us going", and to think it all started over a plant selling for $395. !! This has been so informative and so much fun.
Learning about something you really enjoy is always a good thing. Hopefully this will be a good thread for the archives referencing B. Vul. I would have gone through life thinking that the plant on EBay was "it". Now I know so much more about Brugs as a whole and I have a source for more info.
Tonny, I would love to read through his detailed information, but I probably would not understand the "who begat who" or rather the lineage of the crosses. It can be mind boggling at best for those of us that are still figuring out arboreas from Vulcanicolas from sanguineas. I am going to get the book by Preissel and try to educate myself better at least by the most common characteristics. Just think....all this data delving was caused by a pink flower I fell in lust over :))
God bless everyone, Margo
Liz...cut me in for a small slice and I'll bring the pruners and drive the get away car. In addition, I'll fly at my own expense to CA.....Deal or no Deal? (LOL)
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 4:37 PM
We'll need a good van...
:-)
...and lots of sandwiches and beer.
If we're drunk when we pull this heist off, and we get caught, we can beg mercy from the court because we were loaded...
...or, if caught, we could EAT the plants...therefore elimiating evidence and getting blastingly high at the same time!
Sounds like a plan!
OK...Margo...in charge off sandwiches, beer and possible wheel man...if we don't hear from Alistair.
And if all that doesn't work to clear us Gordo, we can all rush into rehab. LOL
Alistair, I am on the hunt for more complete info!
OKAY Mission accomplished...Book bought~~~arrives 2-5-07 :))
Okay, let's rock....BUT... if we eat the evidence we won't need any excuses just someone to identify us....since "all parts of this plant are poisonous" as per all my EBay purchases. LOL.
Heck of a way to get a Vulcan. but I'm game.
God bless, Margo
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 5:22 PM
Tonny, rehab is where Americans go after they have committed any type of transgression to regain the public's sympathy. Hey, we should have brug rehab!! We can all spend time there when we offend and then be able to return to brug society! LOL!
LOL Yes, we have it here too LOL If we can be a part of a program and gain a lot of public sympathy by clipping off Brugmansia cuttings in the arboretum I seriously need to go to the US and find out of something sgriminal. Does it suffice to smoke in public places? LOL - or should I protest to too many trees in Ohio or cancel the mountains out of Yellowstone National Park? ... you are the americans. You got to advice me :)
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 6:44 PM
Liz if you dont have enough room i could come over with my truck and clean you out oops i mean help you clean up some Paul
Whos Chickee?
Much as I love fast cars, I'd be no good driving like a bat out of ... on your side of the road!
On a more serious note, I sincerely hope that seller gives some of that staggering profit back to Strybing as a donation........
Liz, where is it and WHAT is it ? I know it is a great place to go see brugs....but what else is there ?? I would love to go....sounds like my idea of what Brug heaven would be. Ya'll have created a brug monster in me.....I want them all and would take such good care of them....sighhhh LOL. Being a retired Realtor / turned in home Caregiver for my Mom and DH, I have tons of time...tons of it. I sit here and "will" my seeds to "do SOMETHING, do anything, just show me some green, darn it!". Does that sound like a monster gone mad? LOL
Alistair, I just can't wait for my book to get here. I'm not sure how detailed it is, but I plan to study it cover to cover. I am in Zone 8 but according to a local horticulturist we can also consider ourselves the lower side of Zone 9 due to the breezes coming in off the ocean keeping us from having too harsh of Winters.
Is there any other reccommended reading ya'll can suggest? We have BooksAMillion and Barnes and Nobles Bookstore within 10 minutes of us. How about any online resources? I really want to become as well versed as the rest of you. I know it will take oodles of time, but time I have.
God bless, Margo
P.S. Oh my gosh...I just googled Strybing.....what an awesome place. Wish I lived closer. I would volunteer just to clean the floors and be around all those incredible things. Thanks for the info Liz.
We should all meet May 4th for their huge plant sale. I would go broke but I would be broke and happy, deleriously happy !!!!
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 7:14 PM
Well actually, brugs are the least of it over at San Francisco Botanical Garden at Strybing Arboretum.
Oh to be a tree in Strybing! How God would bless me.
And a hop, skip and a jump away is the Conservatory of Flowers. Where the Strybing is a slow release of endorphins, the Conservatory is sudden release of them like none other. I have been known to run in and leave my friends in my dust at the door and not look back for an hour. Truly a happiness exploding event.
If you follow ebay's strange_wonderful_things, he has lots of the rare things sold at the Strybing sales. I do believe he gets his fun plants from there and the UC Botanical Garden at Berkeley which has similarly fun sales for sure, full of rare stock.
Alistair, I am hoping he gives back an unvirused plant myself. That would be too cool! He just emailed me and we may meet up at the next sale there. He seems like a very nice guy. He is not in brug lust though like us I take it. LOL
So Alistair, did you note that Preissel got his/their seeds in 1994 while the Arboretum got their cuttings from those taken in 1970? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Here is Tommie Lockwood from the Preissel book on Brugmansia and Datura. Page 12. I am not sure you bought a book per se Margo but actually his thesis. I am dying to know how you find it.
refresh some of ur memories... just in case people have forgotten.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/351935/ , http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/360285/ , http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/363316/
Wow, MaVie, that's an awesome job you did pulling those threads out. I wasn't a member back then, but I do appreciate your effort.
Kell, I do keep Strange_Wonderful_things under my favorite Sellers. I always enjoy his photos and the history lessons he provides. I'm not sure, but I don't think I have ever won a bid with him, they always go out of my price range, but I have tried many, many, many times LOL.
Here is a photograph of my small set up for growing my first Brugs seeds. I'm not sure if you can see the plant heat mat under the one on the left. It only has one setting--low. I can barely tell it is on, I guess that's a good thing. :)) I don't see anything yet...not even a whisper of anything growing. I started them soaking on 1-21, planted in rockwool on 1-27, planted in seed starter on 1-29 and started the next batch of seeds soaking on 1-29.....so I hope to see cots by Monday, the 5th. Is that reasonable? That would be 9 days for the rockwool and 7 for the seed starter mix.
God bless everyone, Margo
no problem Margo, glad it helps. if u've been on DG, as long as Kell, Tonny, myself and many others on DG, one remember who wrote what.
i am glad my health is back to normal. i can be my old self again ... helping find links to help others.
ma vie
MaVie,
I've been lurking here in the Brug forum, only to find it as fascinating as ever.
Reading the above links was a real treat, and I will definitely keep them as reference.
Thanks for posting them.
Gracie
hi Gracie ... i bet we both are glad to be back. nice to see u. as long as i see inquiry/s or questions ask, i will try to be able to give a helping hand. do check on the thread too http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/688355/ i am sure u will learn some info too.
Oh Margo, I should really start buying at those Arboretum sales myself and sell the stuff too on eBay! I agree his prices get up there. I think his great pictures are what really seal the deal though. And his ads are so professional....... and so tempting.
Well..............everyone does their seeds differently and have there own success. By just going by your picture, it doesn't look like you have lights or a dome. Let me tell you how I do it.
I keep the seed just gently pressed in so uncovered, whether it be soil or the rockwool. And then I place them very close to my workshop light fixture with 1 cool white and 1 warm light fluorescent bulbs. The light may provide heat but it sure tells the seeds to grow up to it. I do not use a heating mat, though others do with success.
The other thing is I take a clear plastic bag and put water in it, drain it, and then place the container in it, seal it well thus creating a green house effect. They seem to love the humidity. Also it keeps any bacteria or fungus that is floating around out of it. It also keeps them wet so you do not have to keep watering which can introduce germs/fungus.
I find their is no time table in germination. I have had some germinate fast and its podmates much slower. The general rule is the fresher they are the faster they germinate. Older seeds can take even a few months. I find the whiter the seeds the fresher, they seem to darken over time. I never soak seeds. Did you soak yours from 1-21 to 1-27? If I were going to soak mine, if they were peeled I would only do it overnight at the most and actually the same for unpeeled. I could be wrong here but I would be afraid of rot if you leave them in water for days.
GOOD LUCK MARGO! I am hoping you hit the brug lotto and then share with me. LOL! !
Well maybe there is more of Lockwood's stuff floating around in botanic gardens even if his university chucked all his material out!
I've had limited dealings with that seller in the past and found him very pleasant too, Kell. I wonder how long he has had this plant and whether he got it before the arboretum ones got virussed???
Hugs Kell,
Thanks so much for all of your help !!! Well, first I really messed up. I didn't post the picture with the dome to my trays on them. I'm so sorry. I do have the 6" high domed cover and I very seldom remove it. I can really see the moisture build up on the inside of the dome. Yes, I did soak them all of that time :(( I wasn't sure of a timetable because some of the seeds I bought from Brenda were 2005. Not all I bought from her were 2005, most were 2006. Only a couple packages of seeds were actually really white and they were the ones I bought from Brenda 2006 and Dergaertner_1 on EBay. Some were those seeds were the really pretty double crosses. A few were the pod parents but most were the pollen donors.
None of my seeds were peeled first....I soaked them with the cork on, then after they soaked I took them out and very gently removed at least 50% and some as much as 75% of the cork. I didn't nic the true seed at all on any of them that I know of. I sure hope I didn't ruin my whole first batch. If I did, well, heck fire, back to the proverbial "drawing board".
I don't have a grow light set up yet, but I am hinting for one for Valentine's Day. I would really like to have the triple shelf set up with the grow lights on the bottom 2 shelves. (hint, hint, hint) LOL.
Tell me what you think I should do now ? They are covered, have bottom heat and are moist but not wet. When I tilt the trays nothing runs out....if I press gently on the rockwool or seed starter mix, nothing oozes.....do you think I might be okay for now ? Do you have any suggestions for what to do next? I would hate to lose any of them, but if you think I've killed them, I want to know :(
God bless you all and keep you safe, Margo
Edited to say...this is not their permanent home, this is my kitchen stove island. I moved them there to make a better photograph, lol.
Of course I would share with you :))
This message was edited Feb 2, 2007 1:02 AM
This message was edited Feb 2, 2007 1:03 AM
By looking at all the places the Arboretum planted this one on that log, there could be plantings I have not seen that are healthy. Or he got his before it got virused. He did tell me his were not virused. His leaves look great in the first pic. The other pics look to me to be from the Arboretum plant, but what do I know.
I may be going there this weekend and I will sure look around with a purpose. I am usually in such a state of WOW that I wander aimlessly. Also I can ask Ilie who is their brug man there, where they have them stashed.
He also told me it was not self fertile and that the Arboretum and he also, had a hard time getting it to root.
Hey Alistair, when is your night time??
Here is the Arboretum's vulcanicola in winter bloom. Needs a hard pruning!
ahem... Kell my dear you are going with me weekend after next ...aren't you? I do need the support after all (as I am not quite ready for plant rehab) ! Not to mention they are having the Lunar New Year Flower Market that day too!
Woo hoo two plant sales in one day and the opportunity to go to the conservatory... feeling weak thinking of it all...I might faint!
Hi Margo, I was writing my last post while you posted.
Well................... if I were you I would get a light ASAP. You do not have to get a fancy one at all. The shop lights are like $9.99 here and hold 2 bulbs. Go get one while your true love procrastinates and jury rig it some where. That should guilt him into movement. Sigh a lot as you put it together. That is what I do and my man hops too fast. It has metal chains with hooks on the end so you can hang it somewhere.
Maybe someone who knows about soaking will chime in here for I really know nothing about it. But......... why soak then peel? And if you soaked before you peeled and the seeds were still firm no harm done. The only time I would be tempted to soak is if the seeds were old and I would peel them first. And then I would only do it overnight.
The older seeds may take longer so be patient. It is best if you stop going in there and touching them. I really prefer the small batch method esp for older seeds that are going to take awhile. I put a tupperware container in a plastic bag, twist close and close it with a velcro strip, tight. I do NOT open it again until the seedlings are about 2 inches tall or so and ready to go into their own 16 ounce red cup. They stay moist the whole time.
I am afraid to use a heating mat myself because I am afraid I will steam my seedlings to death. I am probably nuts.
Anyway, patience is the key. One year way back, I gave up and tossed my dirt in a pot and in spring I had baby brugs coming up. I had no clue what the cross was by then.
The lights are right above this bag, like 2 inches higher.
Hey Lali girl. Of course am going with you!! No one else will have me. Sad but true. I was thinking you had told me the 3rd which is why I said I MAY be going there this weekend but it is the 10th?? Well if we go the 10th we need to go out to a fancy birthday lunch too. Plus have our group girl birthday lunch later on this month! I am so spoiled. LOL
edited to say LOL Lali, remember when I did this to you and Sue? LOL
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3147134
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 10:46 PM
We are 19 hours ahead of you Kell! Its Friday evening!! Yay!!!
Honey-chile, I remember well. This time I'm eating my Wheaties and throwing on my Nike's so I'll be ready to beat you to the door!