WS Poppies & transplant problems

bluespiral, You should keep a close eye on them for green mold or slime in case they get to wet. When we get one of our downpours I will probably wish I had the covers on.

Maybe, until the leaves appear, I could water with a solution of 1 Tablespoon of hydrogen peroxide (H202) to 1 Gallon of water for any potential slime or mold problem?

Am using a spray device with a pump that pressurizes the tank so you can get anywhere from a fine mist to a spray to a stream. My wintersown containers were initially soaked with water using this sprayer outdoors around midnight on February 19 in a shoveled clearing of our ice-covered hill (and water - with a tad of H202 from time to time - is the only thing this sprayer is going to spray). Talk about thumbing your nose at Mother Nature :)

It's not too late to put covers on 'em, Zen. I thought I saw somewhere where someone had put their containers into a laundry basked inside of a transparent 30-gal trash bag? It is so much fun to see how creative everyone is in what they come up with for containers.

We have had so much wind, I may need to tie my milk jugs to the picnic table leg!
Yesterday, the girls and I went shopping and it turned my new umbrella wrong side out!

I have off a few days this week and hope to get more WS done.

This message was edited Feb 25, 2007 7:43 PM

blue:

I've added vents on the shoulders of my containers at the same time I created the drainage holes. It's just easier to do it all at the same time. I didn't have vents last year and some of my containers "cooked" once the temps started to get hot.

Also, I sowed Primrose seeds last season and didn't give them any special treatment. They germinated beautifully and flowered the 1st season. Since Mother Nature doesn't give preferential treatment....neither do I.

Shirley, we are toastier than Zenpotter is in Minnesota, aren't we? Thanks, I'll vent those shoulders tomorrow.

I don't know why I didn't do this wintersowing business sooner. For decades, I've been wanting to grow primroses on the terraces of our shady hillside. So, now there are 8 containers out back wintersowed with different primrose seeds - thanks to Tammy, NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society), a discount from T&M, etc. Some germinating directions said to sow at warm temperatures, but I am trying the wintersowing method with a fraction of everything to see what happens. Thank you also for the encouragement with the primroses - Murphy's Law & I are such close buddies that this has been quite a "leap of faith" with me.

Bluegrass, let's hope Mother Nature isn't through rattling her winter sabers at us - am hoping to wintersow some low growers for sunnier path edges like Aethionoma schistosum , Dianthus allwoodii, Oenothera caespitosa, etc. tomorrow. Have already wintersowed campanulas and sages from NARGS. If you only do it once in your life, I can't recommend joining NARGS for at least one season - and another season to give back some seed.

I am definitely going to take your advice and join NARGS. My garden is all low slopes, many at the top of a retaining wall, where low growing plants are a must or I wouldn't be able to see them.

Happy, now is the very best time to be looking at those slopes and walls and ascertaining where evergreen bones might be best placed.

Some great low evergreens for around here include Sarcoccoca hookeriana, Christmas ferns, a tiny, 2" leaved ophiopogon which is so great filling in around stepping stones, etc. You could really go to town with dwarf rhododendrons, which I would research right now so that you could pounce on a plant of each to propagate by softwood cuttings at the end of May or early June in order to have sweeps through your terraces.

The National Arboretum has different gardens of different kinds that bloom from April (Rhododendron muccronolatum (spelling)? into June (Satsuki) and July. There are some hybridized by Polly Hill that creep low on the ground under 1' and spread for a few feet.

And, then, where ancient Greeks might have built a temple on a hill, think about placing the tall, narrow spires of a fastigiate (spelling?) box like Buxus 'Graham Blandy' or a holly like Ilex 'Sky Pencil' to suggest where the surviving columns might be - these will probably need staking because of the ice/snow we get in our winters - again, buy one plant and propagate from softwood cuttings. But First! look around in PlantFiles to see who might already have some of these plants and might be willing to share some cuttings.

And there is a great bible of rock gardeners that I can't recommend too highly: H. Lincoln Foster's Rock Gardening: A Guide to Growing Alpines and Other Wildflowers in the American Garden - Amazon has a used, paperback reprint from Timber Press starting at $3.54. He also write Cuttings from a Rock Garden: Plant Portraits and Other Essays going for $1.51 and up.

And then there's epimediums...

I better quit - morning's getting old

We are so off-topic and I am so grateful -- I am learning so much -- what fantastic ideas -- though my squalid backyard and a Greek temple should not, of course, be used in the same breath!

I'm also thrilled with the direction we've gone, I have a very high, terraced bank that faces east and the lake. This is a wretched spot, that only gets morning sun, and very hard to garden on due to access. I have been asked if I need to be a mountain goat to work out there. Somebody tell me that I can make some of these things work. I would love suggestions of Greek temple columns that can handle only a half day of sun, would love to be planted in sand, and don't mind getting living on the dry side. Oh Yeah......every few years the lake floods something awful and the lower level or two might have to survive a few days in standing water.

Marie,
Do they need to walk on water as well?

How is the snow in that direction? Things are being canceled left and right here. John's eye Dr appointment for tomorrow was even canceled.

I have a north facing hill that is very steep, but not especially tall. Everything I plant there leans at almost a 90º angle unless it is only 3" tall. Any suggestions?

The snow here is amazing, but not nearly as amazing as the wind. WOWie! I stuck my head out of the door once to make sure that the gas line out-take thingie wasn't blocked, and almost got it blown off. Everything got cancelled here this morning. We knew it was coming, and I made no plans to go out today or tomorrow.

Remember when I mentioned Sweet Woodruff to you? And, you wanted to be able to plant seed instead of plants? I would be happy to supply you with as much fresh seed as you could possibly want. Of course we'll need to wait until it's no longer under a foot or two of snow. It flowers very early in the Spring and then there will be plenty of seed. Every time I'm out in that patch my gloves and clothes end up covered in the sticky little balls. My long-haired cat comes in fully coated as well.

Marie, The Sweet Woodruff seeds would come in very handy.
The snow is blowing around as it tries to hit the ground. We are staying at home for today that is for sure.

I'm no expert, let alone in any position to advise you about your neck of the woods which is so very different from mine in Maryland. But, researching design, installation, maintenance and plants appropriate to your area seems like the best place to start. The best expert to whom I can think of to direct you is Panayoti Kelaidis, who is the Curator of Plant Collections at the Denver Botanic Gardens. I once saw a picture of those gardens many years ago, and the surrounding mountain peaks were visible from this garden all encased in ice while flowers were blooming at visitors' feet. Lucky you, with that dramatic drop-off of elevation looking over a lake. Seems like the most problematic spots ultimately contain the most magic when the gardener elicits their inner character. So, here's what came up when I googled Mr. Kelaidis: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=%22Panayoti+Kelaidis%22&spell=1

There are some ideas so universal that they translate to many different situations - hanging individual pecadillos on a universal is what makes each so interesting.

As for Greek columns - I don't know about planting fastigiate woody plants with those winds and ice, but I wonder if there might be a woody plant that could give the sense of a sacred grove? If you can come up with something that takes your hillside out of time...something that looks like it's been there since time began (some call this "naturalizing", you will have done it right. So, don't plant in rows parallel to existing contours, but think in terms of blocks or sweeps or drifts with at least one edge on the diagonal...think in terms of triangles...if you have a ledge 2' wide, don't plant something taller than half that width, like a 6' leggy sunflower that will topple in the most Bill-the-Cat way over the ledge. Find out what's native to your area and/or what plants are just "dying" to be planted on your hillside with its own unique conditions of soil type, pH, exposure (sun/shade), drainage, rainfall (or lack), etc.

Another book I can't recommend too highly is Passionate Gardening by Springer & Proctor - in addition to being very comprehensive, they make the foregoing topics accessible to everyone - great writing & sense of humor.

And meanwhile, while you burrow into books & webpages, there's annuals to grow - like alpine poppies :) and their successors like nasturtiums...and perennials to be sowing now to be growing on in a nursery like sages, low grasses...there are hardy dwarf morning glories like the native Evolvulus nuttallianus (zone 4a) with velvet/fuzzy leaves and bright blue little saucers...why not ask Ron_Convolvulus over at the Morning Glory Forum for more ideas about low growing morning glories you could grow in your situation? I noticed a few days ago in the Seed Trading forum where Luvsgrtdanes was trying to find a home for some NARGS seed he couldn't use like an alpine, dwarf sunflower...

PS - here's a link by Ron_Convolvulaceae listing some morning glory species native to American southwest - perhaps there might be some hardy to your area as is Evolvulus nuttallianus -

http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3246244

I realize the subject has changed BUT, I am growing 4 kinds of poppies currently. I transplanted 2 kinds in the last 3 days and they are doing great. I grew them in milk jugs and when they were 1" tall, & had 6-8 leaves I transplanted them to large cell trays. I transplanted Pink Peony Poppy and Breadseed poppy. I just teased them out of the hos with a skewer and made sure I didn't break off the taproot. Some of those roots were 3" long, I stuffed them in the hole and covered them well. When I was done I sat them out in the unheated gh. They have not wilted or anything, I was surprised.

Last year I heard how hard they were to transplant so I direct sowed them in the spring. Out of about 30 seeds sown of 3 varieties, I got 2 seedlings each. WS is a much better way already. I have 75 seedlings of one variety and 150 of another variety.

Back to the original post LOL! I am using the press and seal on several of my WS containers-will let you know how it holds up w/our snow and ice here.

Also , "The Natural Garden" by Ken Druse, has lots of beautiful pics, and info on different sites and natural landscaping. I think you would see some things that would complement the style you are looking for, and enjoy his attitude about natural areas. The book is pricey, but I found it on Amazon, used-library copy for 4.99 + 3.99 shipping. I've found many, many wonderful garden resource books there.

My first WS is a success story! Among other things I have 2 kinds of Oriental poppies, Patty's Plum and Victoria Louise, beautifully sprouted.

I had to start late, the house was closed for the winter until April 1. But it was still quite cold with lots of snow stll on the ground, and it actually snowed that day as well. I used plastic boxes with holes top and bottom, taped remay over the holes to prevent slugs or other visitors, sowed in 4" pots, left on a bench in part sun. I'm so thrilled and excited- Can't believe it- I feel like I got something for nothing. Another WS addict is born!

So here's my question: Since I used such small pots, I don't want to plant hos. My babies are just sprouts, no true leaves yet. My frost date is June 1. Can I separate the sprouts into --what? I have never had much luck with peat pots, maybe small paper cups? Those tear away easily later, had good luck with sweet peas...suggestions anyone?

Thanks! Pam

Congatulations Pam. I have Victoria Louise. It is a large blousey sort of flower but really pretty. Bought it as a plant two years ago. That is great you could winter sow seeds.

Thanks!

>> Since I used such small pots, I don't want to plant hos. My babies are just sprouts, no true leaves yet. My frost date is June 1. Can I separate the sprouts into --what? I have never had much luck with peat pots, maybe small paper cups?

I like the plastic cells they call "insert trays" . The ones that come 72-per-tray, pre-cut into "6-packs" are fairly deep for their size, and since they have sloped sides, plants pop oit really easily once they are rootbound. And they don't tip over, like paper cups!

I find I can re-use them indefinitly, unless I leave them out in the summer sun.

But I can never decide whther it is better to transplant things when they have just one tiny root that comes cleanly out of the soil, or when it is somewhat rootbound, and the roots hold the root ball together without damage.

Corey

You really ask neat questions. Ones I have had also. I use the same type of 6pak, although I have broken them apart (into individual 6-paks) and reuse for years.

Corey-You WS in 6-packs? I use them all the time inside, but thought they'd dry out too fast outside, especially once they get growing. Also, inside I find them too small for cluster-sowing, usually only do a few seeds at most in each cell. Inside, I separate clustered seedlings very early so the roots aren't long enough to get tangled. It's tricky, but I usually get enough plants to make it worth it.

But poppies I thoughtdid on't like being handled that much, so need tear-away type containers? Not sure the best way to pot up.

I had sown mine in salad containers (10x10x2) and then just hos'd them into 6 paks, nipping extras with scissors as they grew bigger. I am still leaving some 5 or 6 in each cell to let nature do the culling when they go outside.

Pfg:

>> Corey-You WS in 6-packs? I use them all the time inside, ...

No, I mostly WS in 3.5" pots inside transulcent tubs with slitted plastic film over the top. One variety per 3.5" pot, maybe 9-15 seeds each.

This was my first year, and I had almost no germination, but a few Penstemon varieties popped up a few days ago. I'll make some chnages next year.

I do use the "72-cells-per-tray" six packs for starting some things inside, but I also use some propagation trays with 128 cells per tray for slow-starting things like Salvia or petunias.


>> but thought they'd dry out too fast outside, especially once they get growing.

In the PNW along the coast, NOTHING dries out, until June or July when the constant rain goes away.


>> Also, inside I find them too small for cluster-sowing, usually only do a few seeds at most in each cell.

I agree, but I don't like to cluster-sow, since I don't like either thinning or over-crowding. And yet I've had to cluster-crowd some seeds this year, because I got interested in Lobelia, and everyone says to sow them in dense clusters. So each 6-pack is one type of Lobelia, sprinkled fairly heavily, and they ALL seem to have sprouted. When I break them up, each cell will be potted up into its own medium pot, or 2-3 cells per big pot. (I plan to grow some in contaioners and some trailing down the walls of rasied beds).

Many of those 6-packs were piled high with seedling mix, in an attempt to get more depth. In those, you can't see the dividers between cells, just one hump over all 6 cells. I expect some seedlings that are "straddling the fence" in the 6-packs will fall away, and I may save and mix those when I break up 6-packs.


On the other hand, I just plain sowed too many seeds of Columbines and snapdragons in other 6-packs (indoors). I hope to divide them up SOME when I pot up or transplant out, but it depends on how crowded they are.

I know that many WS fans plant big chunks of crowded seedlings and "let the strong ones survive". I'd rather the strong ones spent their energy on growing faster!

Corey

How fast do your snaps germinate and grow. Mine seem dreadfully slowwwww. I have tried both the hos and individual methods. Jury is still out on which is less bothersome, costly, and economical on space. Depends on germination. If all my 6-paks germinate, I am gold. If I have some dead cells, well, I only have so much horizontal space. Talking indoors in my garage under shop lights.

>> How fast do your snaps germinate and grow

I shouldn't say, based on just one year and about 2 6-packs. Slower than Lobelia. MUCH slower than Zinnia & Cosmo. Maybe about the same as Columbines.

Faster than Petunias ... my 'tunies either did not like my new seedling mix or the heating pad.

All this is indoors, I did not try WSing snapdragons.

Corey

Me neither. And I haven't planted any of the seeds you mentioned. Marigolds, Godetia, portulaca, Livingstone daisys, carrots, beans, sweet peas (both outside and inside to see the difference). btw, the sweet peas sown outside in the cold frame look sturdier than the ones inside. But it sounds like snaps are just one of the slower ones. And more delicate for a while.

I thought I was doing something wrong, my snaps were so slow, and so puny for the longest time. First I did individual cells, then clustered in 3" pots to augment when I saw all the wasted space. I started them 2/4, added 2 weeks later, now have 72 blooming plants, in all three sizes. Next year I'll wait until 3/1.

For the poppies, I guess my best bet is to separate them hos into 6-packs, and let them fight it out until it becomes more obvious who stays and who goes?

Thanks!

Pam

I don't know, but if I were you, I would look for advice from people who SUCCEED at WS, not me!

What I did with petunias last year when i sowed WAY too many per cell, was to use tiny scissors and cut down as many of the short or straggly ones as I could bear to. Some more died or wimped out when I potted up. The slugs got some of the rest.

Pretty soon I'll be teasing out the few Penstemon that emerged from my WS tubs. It looks like, at most, 2-4 sprouts per 3.5" pot. I don't think "2" can constitute a hunk!

I wish they made 6-packs or plug trays deeper than 2.5 to 3 inches!

Corey

I do the same thing, Corey. I have little scissors and thin out every so often as they grow. Grow, thin out, grow, thin out. Seems to work.

Grow, snip, wince.
Grow, snip, wince.

I hate cutting them down.

Corey

LOL!!!! Man up, Corey... snicker snicker

You two are getting funnier all the time. I can't wait to see what you get up to next... ;-)

Pam

Naaah, I am a total wimp when it comes to yanking plants or thinning seedlings.
Not like my neighbor, Atilla the Gardener.

Also not like my DSO, who doesn't garden but is a very efficient pruner. "Cut even more off, it'll grow back!" is her policy.

(whimper)

I don't even LIKE pulling weeds, but now that I have amended some of my soil, I see that they are waiting, in rows 10-20 deep, to take over the new beds.

OVER MY DEAD BODY THEY WILL !!!

Corey

I am also a heavy pruner. Have used a chainsaw on a radically overgrown Siberian Pea bush, and my Chinese meat cleaver to 'prune' a big choke cherry tree. Had to climb up into the branches to reach. DH finally took the cleaver away when I was cutting down a hedge I wanted to get rid of and I hit the base of my thumb. That cleaver was walking through half inch branches. Had the blade not swung reversed so I hit my thumb with the back side of the blade, I would have been minus a thumb. I was tired and loosened my grip on the handle so it flipped with the force of the down swing. Thank Heavens. I just Preened my front beds to try to steal a march on the weeds. If it stops raining I will do the other beds. Boy do I hate chickweed.
Anyone afflicted with horsetails. They set up housekeeping in my beds last summer and they are spreading madly. Awful!!!

This message was edited May 4, 2011 2:10 PM

>> I am also a heavy pruner. Have used a chainsaw on a radically overgrown Siberian Pea bush,
...
>> DH finally took the cleaver away

You and Atilla the Gardener would get along great.

I realize that style does WORK well, and it is the way of Nature (red in tooth and claw), but I'm a sissy.

Except for certain weeds and slugs!

And those sprawling junipers I have been "fine tuning" with a pick, mattock and pruners like bolt cutters.

Corey

Ah Ha!! I knew it. A closet pruner....and you would have us think you were delicate.

Tee hee...

Somehow or other, once a plant gets on my "bad side", I don't hesitate to do what it takes, no matter what it takes".

Hmmm, that must mean I have a Dark Side. The junipers and slugs would agree, but I prefer to think I'm all sweetness and light 'n like that ...

Excuse me, I see those junipers are casting too much shade on that new raised bed and my favorite Rhodie.

WHACK! WHACK!! WHACK!!!

(whistling and looking innocent)

Corey

ROTFL