Paper pots

garden6 - when did they turn crispy? Before or after you planted them out?

Suzy

Illoquin~ the poppies crispy fried in May/June, several weeks after being transplanted.

Did they fry, then, before blooming? Because mine did poop out when the heat arrived, after their bloom period. They don't like the heat. Then I pulled them and replaced with some heat loving annuals.

Are you sure they got enough water?

Karen

This thread is another gem, I just love it. My DH knew immediately what you were talking about and he set out to find me some more info:

Google "Making paper pots". The first thing that comes up will be ehow.com....... It gives good instructions with pictures. Also see the note about colored ink. (Sorry, I don't know how to put in a link).

Another thing to try this year, my head is spinning.

Do you use paper pots for winter sowing, and if so, would they not totally disintegrate by the time you would want to plant out?

This is the site:
http://www.ehow.com/how_1745_create-seed-starting.html

This message was edited Dec 12, 2006 10:19 PM

Clementine look at post Dec 11, 2006 - 9:12 AM lol they say great mines think alike

cg

Clementine,

I don't know if they will disintegrate or not. Claypa was talking about using a spatula to get the narrow pots I made out of the bin, so I suspect they will be in poor shape at the very least. The one thing that makes me think they'll be okay (and I don't know why I think this -- my pots will be only 1/2 the thickness of the ones in the ehow article!) is that it will still be very cool. Most of the disintegration of compostables occurs when the weather is warm-hot.

I'm mostly using mine for poppies and larkspur. If they don't work out, I can either scratch the whole idea, or I can modify it in time for the zinnias & sunflowers.

Claypa, I like the ide of individual plants, too. I was hoping to get 2 or 3 poppies in each of my small tubes for semi-individual plants...then I saw Karen's and I'm wondering why I am bothering -- they are TINY! I was expecing something 20x bigger! =sigh.=

I actually have no idea what I'm doing, but by golly, I gotta do something! Another wintersower from the midwest up near Chicago told me she doesn't sow a thing until February. I'm sure I can't wait that long!

Suzy

See Trudi's hunk-of-seedlings:
http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Hunk-o-Seedlings.html

If planted out at that tiny size taproots really aren't an issue as they haven't really formed yet.

I did use some individual styrofoam cups and yogurt cups, placed in an underbed storage box. It worked well and made planting out a little easier. But they took a long time to sow initially.

The attached photo shows the cups in the underbed box. It's second from the top

Karen

Now this is a taproot. It's a lupine sunrise. My mistake was sowing too soon since it's tender. At this stage it outgrew the jug and had to be potted up or planted out. I risked it and planted out. Even at this stage they were hard to remove from the container without breaking the taproot. Because it's tender and I planted out so early I did cover it with a blanket for a couple of late frosts.

Taproot plants are easy to handle if planted at a very small stage, like one or two sets of true leaves. I will sow the lupine sunrise later this year than I did last.

Karen

Woops! Just realized I didn't get the photo attached above. I guess you can't post a link and a photo in one message.
Anyway here is the underbed sterilite box with styrofoam and yogurt cups.

Karen

Kq~ they crispy fried before blooming, they were nice and green one day before emerging buds and the next day looked like boiling oil had been poured over them all. Oddly, the french marigolds seedlings kept growing in the same location and bloomed in nice mounds by early July through Oct.

I was wondering if you could cut pieces of twine and place under these in an X shape and bring them up and over (and tie them to make like a lift that would help to lift them out of the trays or what ever you use?

Connie

Yeah, Connie, I'm working on some different things - one is that craft fence you were talking about, maybe in another thread. I think it's the same thing -- I got mine at Lowe's in 36" rolls -- it's green plastic fencing material that has the same size openings as as chicken wire -- and Mr. Clean put one roll on his precious bandsaw to get me some narrower widths. I'm having trouble getting it straightened out from it's rolled up posture. The other idea is netting like an orange bag, and if I can find long enough lengths, I can criss cross it like your're talking about, or maybe I can tie the twine to the holes or something.

Karen -- that is one long taproot! I'll add Lupines to the list.

Garden6 -- I'm thinking they dried out. But that brings me to another thing -- if you ran a sprinkler over those itty-bitty seedlings that Karen had, wouldn't the water falling on them just flatten them?

Suzy

Connie - you probably could make a carrying sling out of twine. But it would be quite time-consuming if you have a lot of pots! I just lift the individual pots with my fingers, or you could use a pair of tongs. Yuska

Suzy, I like how you call your DH Mr. Clean. My DH thinks, dreams, and labors intensively for the elusive velvety- green, weed free and elaborately mown lawn...... Maybe we could just mist the poppy seedlings or snake a water hose soaker around them....

For getting your pots out of the flats, you could use cross stitch plastic mesh under the pots, and use twist ties, craft wire, or plastic cable ties to make handle bales thru the plastic mesh to lift out a strip or section of paper pots. I have found the plastic mesh will hold up for several years of use, but it will eventually get brittle if left it the sun. I am really enjoying your thread--something to do NOW.

I thought Mr. Clean was a cat!!! Like maybe he was playing with the newspaper.

I mist my seedlings after planting out. After a couple of weeks most are big enough to take a sprinkler as long as it doesn't blast them.

When still in the jugs I either bottom watered or misted with my garden pump sprayer. The wand fits right down into the opening.

Karen

Someone had mentioned they roll the newspaper around their fingers and end up with a pot the size of a toilet paper roll. I'm going to try it out for the shrubs I want to WS since I really don't want to use the "Hunk O Seedling" on them. Love this thread... full of really good ideas!

Joanne

I have used toilet paper rolls. For small seeds I cut the roll in half. The cardboard won't decompose as readily as newspaper, so I usually peel it back when setting out the seedling. Also, some rolls are treated with something that looks like a plastic spray - I don't use those.

yuska: Do you just leave the bottom ends open?

Netwiz -- that's about the size of my spice jar pots. Wrapping around your fingers is okay, but my gosh, your hands would be BLACK! I have some toilet paper rolls collected, but they look so toilet paper-y! I just think YUCK! whenever I see them, and have consequently curtailed the TP roll collection.

On the other hand, anybody who has ever seen that Doris Day movie where somebody has a baby in the back of the taxi KNOWS newspaper is clean and sterlie LOL!

Karen, I am trying to get a price on the mister attachment from hardyplants.com. That will be perfect (I think) since I don't have anything close.

Suzy

Suzy: Can you let us know what the mister attachment costs? Sounds as if it might be useful.

Suzy? A mister attachment for what? I looked at hardy plants but can't find what you are talking about?

Karen

Oops- I found it. Looks good. I have a dial type nozzle for the hose which has a mist setting. My neighbor has a misting sprinkler which is really neat. I'd like to find one of those.



This message was edited Dec 13, 2006 5:21 PM

Keep those ideas rolling.... I refused to wear the crown of crispy fried poppy queen again!! ;0)

Claypa~ you are 2 funny!

Oh my gosh -- I missed a who series of posts!

Gloria -- yes! The cross stitch plastic would be perfect if it is large enough. I'll have to go hunting for it -- Michael's I'm sure.

Claypa -- Ah, close -- Felix was a cat and Mr. Clean reminds me of Felix Unger, so I'd say that's close! One of my dear friends has already named her husband Felix, so I couldn't use the name for mine. LOL!

Garden6 - Yes, he calls it his "English Lawn" LOL! It needs some help, if you ask me.

Happy, I'll let you know. I suspect there is no price because he doesn't have any in stock yet. I think the head would be too big to go into the top of the milk jugs like Karen was saying.

Karen, If you find a mister sprinkler, can you report back where you found it? It would be excellent to keep red spider mites away. And useful for WS babies, too. (notice I'm keeping on topic?)

Suzy

Illoquin: You can get the cross stitch plastic at Walmart, in the sewing supplies-craft section with the embroidery floss. Comes in all sizes up to about folded newspaper size.

Gloria, yes, I do leave the botom ends open. I have quite a few large square ceramic casserole containers that I use. I set the TP roll portions in them and fill them firmly with moist potting soil and plant the seeds. Then I cover with the glass lids for a terrarium/greenhouse effect - it moderates temperature and moisture. I can then watch the seeds sprout and grow, and when ready to plant I carry the container to the garden. Have not had any problems with the little plants falling out when I lift them up. The same technique could be used with baking or roasting pans covered with plastic wrap. Yuska

FINALLY! A use for all that Corning Ware I have! LOL!

Suzy

Instead of buying cross stitch plastic at Walmart, couldn't you use the bags that pre-packaged oranges and onions are sold in?

hello i use fogg it super fine nozzle for my seedlings...

http://www.nicholsgardennursery.com/store/product.asp?dept%5Fid=11&pf%5Fid=184&mscssid=PRQVNJ2BDBXW9GUQ3GVP6CSHQJ4W8T73

nichols sells them but i think gardening places would sell them too

pamsue

llloquin - Thanks for the spice jar tip. I wasn't looking forward to all that ink on my hands!

Joanne

The fogg-it super fine nozzle is $6 at Amazon (2/3rds the Nichols price).

Here are the choices they carry -- Pam suggested the superfine, but I wondered why not the Low Volume, since it specifically says it's for seedlings?

Fogg it Low Volume Nozzle
Water Fogg - Better For Flowers Than April Showers. Fogg-It "General Purpose" Water Fogg Nozzle - Has a 2 gal per min. delivery of a super soft, fine mist spray. Excellent for spraying delicate blooms such as orchids, begonias, fuschias, moistening seed beds and seed flats. Can be used in a fixed spray system in lath house or green house.

VS


Fogg It Super Fine Nozzle
Fogg-It "Superfine" Nozzle - Has 1/2 gal per min. delivery which makes an extremely fine spray. Also used on Rainboy Nozzle Holder for mist propagation of cuttings. In early spring, keep fine mist over them, and in a very short time they will develop a good mass of roots to make nice plants.

Suzy

suzy..you decide..lol

well i was at nichols so i got it there....im sure you can comparison shop elsewhere...i do like my superfine..it does a fine mist..because i do very small seedlings and i dont want them to lay flat after i water.. maybe it is too fine for some..i dont know because i havent tried the other one...

pamsue

to water my seedlings i would have to do a few passes....so it might be too fine..hard to say without using both kinds

This message was edited Dec 14, 2006 6:43 AM

Well, then, I shall do an experiment for you all. I went ahead and bought both of them. LOL! I expected to have to pay $20.00 for one, if I could find it, so I thought they were a great deal. I also bought some MORE seeds, so the freight was included. Merry Christmas to meeeeeee!

Suzy

Hi, I have been reading and I want to try this winter sowing. Last year I planted directly in the ground but had a lower germination in my seed plot than I wanted. Also, I lost some of my marker sticks and couldn't tell my Cherry tomatoes from the Beefmasters. Is there a thread somewhere about the best annuals/perennials/ veggies for wintersowing? What did you have the most sucess with?

Do you take the tops of the large plastic container off after a period of time? Thanks.
Teresa in KY

Hi Teresa,

I have some answers, but they are by no means the only answers -- hopefully others will chime in.

ALL your tomatoes will wintersow and they'll be less diseased. I know this only from tomatoes that have self seeded in my compost pile VS ones I tried to grow under lights. I once gave some tomatoes seedlings to my dad -- I was soooo proud of starting them from seed! -- and he wouldn't take them because they were so diseased. LOL!

Nearly everybody leaves the tops (by this I mean the screw tops) off the milk jugs so they can get water and snow or ice during the winter. Naturally this means you have to have some holes in the bottom, and a few up the sides too, in case they get frozen to the ground and can't drain. The TOPS of the jugs, as in the part that would be the top after you partially decapitate it so you can get soil and seeds in, will be removed at intervals and finally, by about April 20 in your neck of the woods, will be totally off and you'll be left with a milk jug tray of baby seedlings to transplant when the weather is for-sure nice. Different plants have different needs, so hardy annuals and perennials can have their tops come off sooner than tomatoes.

As far as I can tell, the farther south you are, the more you have to worry about the containers drying out. In Indianapolis, we get a lot of rain in the spring, so I'm not as worried as somebody else in say, Georgia.

Go to www.wintersown.org and read everything. LOL! You will find a list of plants that others have successfully WSd in your zone. It's a long list. If you divide it into types of plants, rather than the plants themselves it might be easier to remember. Hardy Annuals (in this case meaning the seed is winter hardy and won't freeze, I am not talking about the plants being hardy below freezing) Annuals, Perennials, Biennials, Tender Perennials

The very easiest things will be annuals which reseed in your garden, anyway. For me, it means Nasturtiums, impatiens, moss roses (portulaca) Cleome, Zinnias, Four O'Clocks, and Cosmos. (Annual) Poppies and Larkspur are others I will WS & have hopefuly blooming for next year. I'm sure there are a whole bunch more, I just don't happen to grow them (yet).

The next easiest is probably biennials, but the timing makes them actually harder than perennials because yu have to think. They usually need to be a certain size to make it through winter, but they also need to be a certain size before they'll bloom. These can be summer sown (same thing -- in the milk jugs or protected pots) or wintersown. I prefer late July sowing -- translates to Mid Aug sowing for you).

If you wintersow biennials, they might come up in Feb, but those little seedlings are very hardy*, and in Feb there is a lot more sun -- both longer days, more intense sunlight -- than in December so although the temps might be just as low or lower in Feb, to the sedlings' perspective, it's almost spring...chilly, but almost spring. *I know this because I have some Sweet William seedlings that are an inch tall that made it through the 8 degree cold snap we had here a week or so ago. If you sow early, then they will probably bloom the same year. If you sow in the middle of Aug (for your area, near Bowling Green, I mean) you will definitely have bloom the following year. Biennias are Foxglove, Sweet William, Hollyhocks, Forget me Nots. I think Parsley is a biennial. And others.

Next easiest, and also from a money standpoint, the most cost saving, are perennials. You ever think, "Gee, I wish I could have a whole garden of these, but I can't afford it!"? With wintersowing you can have them all for the cost of a package of seed. You want to use multicolored Heuchera as ground cover? Buy a package of 'Dale's Strain' and you'll have it! You want a hedge of Daisies? Take your pick -- there are about 5 really nice ones to choose from. Or what about a bed of daylilies with some fragrant Lilies and blue Salvia? Three packs of seed and you're ready to go. Most packs of seed have 50+ seeds and they all germinate! OR do some trading. Right now there are some SASBE offers in the wintersowing seed exchange. That means you send them a self address stamped bubble envelope and they'll send you the seeds you want. Outgoing for the empty envelope (it's not really empty - it will have your name and address on a lable, a stamp and a list of what you wanted. It will also have your DG name and hopefully email addy, but it is nearly empty) postage is 52c and to mail it back to you would be either 63c or 87c, depending on how many you packs you requested and whether the person has packed them in paper or plastic.

The next easiest is the annuals that don't reseed -- annuals like marigolds, and that's the only one I can think of without going to my trusty, bulging seed box. I think most of the seeds in a vegetable garden are in this category, but I don't really know.

The hardest and possibly one to think about to consider pros and cons is the tender perennials. For one thing, the growing season might not be long enough if you leave it to Mother Nature. For another, they could come up and then on April 16 you could have a slight frost -- just barely a frost -- and they all get slammed down. Also some of these aren't hardy below 40 degrees, not 32 as we're used to. How do you know a tender perennial? You read. You learn. You kill stuff. LOL! Geraniums -- pelargonums -- are a tender perennial that takes forever to come to blooming size. I wouldn't want to WS it. Or, you might see a picture posted here at DG, and it's posted by somebody in Key West -- that's a real bad sign! LOL! On the other hand, the Impatiens that I already said is hardy and self sows here is also a tender perennial. I have blooming plants in early July, if not before. Is that too long for you to wait? Maybe. I also buy a few 6 packs for instant gratification!

There is a vine I want called Cobaea - the cup and saucer vine. If I wintersowed it, I might see flowers in September. I'm not going to wait that long! Do I buy it, or start it under lights inside? If I decide to buy it, can I even find it? If I start it under lights, do I have a way to let it vine up on a stake and still stay under the lights? So you read, you learn, and you kill stuff -- And you learn some more from the autopsies! LOL! Asking question is good, too, so is posting. I wouldn't be surprised if someone reading this has a way for me to get my Cobaea blooming earlier than Sept...we'll see.

This was probably waaay more than you wanted to know, but if you go to the link I pasted above, it will answer your questions.

Suzy

Hey, Suzy
Thanks, I was over on the Crosman seed link. Have you ever ordered from them or Vauleseeds? Just starting, I hate to be out a lot on seeds. Spoken from a daylily person whom has paid over 2.00 a seed cross. LOL I have a lot to learn. I have been wanting a GH but that is nowhere in the near future with one daughter in college and twins in HS!
Teresa

Oh, man, hopefully the twins are boys because otherwise you'd never get out from under -- thinking 3 WEDDINGS! LOL!

IMHO, Crossman's selection isn't as good as the trades here; I'd hit some people up for their SASBE offers. (Really and truly, as weird as it may sound, people are thrilled to help out newbies. In this case new to wintersowing, not necessarily new to gardening.) Look for recent posts from Bakemom whoes specialty is newbies and also the free tomato & 6-packs of seed offer from Trudi at www.wintersowing.org. With those 2 SASBEs you'll get 18 packs of seeds. Bakemom's are great seeds, too. Oh, and Trudi's wintersowing.org offer also has 6 kinds of tomato seeds. ALL 18 packs are great for wintersowing. Tried and True. Go. Do. It. LOL!

Values seeds is good, though, and with shipping at 99c, it's a bargain.

What seeds did you want?

Suzy