Brugs vs Daturas coflict

There are very few plants on my wish list so far. The question about Brugsmansia and Daturas are confusing to me. I know there are several out there that do 'Dats and who do Brugs So are they the same plant? Am I missing something?

In my book "American Horticultural Encyclopedia of Plants and Flowers" under brugs it has written syn Datura. When looking up Datura all it has is reclassified as Brugdsmansia.

In a Parks seed catalog I found both Datura and Brugs were referred to as Angel trumpets. I know in Daturas their flowers are upward where Brugs are down-facing and pendelous. Correct?

On "Gardening by the Yard" with Paul James, he had a mention that even the gurus of Horticulture were having disagreements on this same subject.

On the Brugs forum some are very adamant as to their being different while others disagree. One told me Brugs come in only yellow pink and white while the dats do come in purple. But if they are they same family and synmous with each other..........

My AHEofP&F say Brugs can grow with a height and spread of 15' x 15' and seeing as dats are supposedly reclassified as a brugs wouldn't they too? The Parks seed catalog claims the dats grow to a height of 1' in containers and 3' in the gound.

Am I being simple here? Actually I want both and have received some dat seeds in the mail.......They can't be winter sown or can they be??? I've seen lovely brugs on the coffee thread and I really want a couple I am just confused I guess and would like some opinions of others.

Years ago, brugs and dats were in the same family. They were later separated. I don't know people are supposed to keep it straight when nurseries keep selling them with the wrong names!

Some call the brugs angel's trumpets and the dats devil's trumpets.

They also have different seed pods. Brugs get a seed pod like a jalapino pepper and dats get a nasty prickly pod.

Brugs can be any color from white to nearly red (including yellows, peaches and oranges). Datura are only white, yellow, purple or a combination. Both can be double or triple.

The flowers on brugs hang down while the flowers on datura stand up off the plant.

I have seen pictures of massive brugs, maybe twenty feet. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I have never actually seen Datura over the 5 feet range. I grew "Evening Fragrance" datura for years. It would often winter over for me with a big root and also drop seeds all over! It was usually about 5x5.

I don't know anything about them being reclassified but I do know that there were once the same family and later separated.

Datura are very easy from seed and generally treated as an annual. Some self seed with a vengeance even in cold climates. I've not heard of anyone growing them from cuttings really because they are so easy from seed.

Brugs are very often grown from seed, hence the new varieties from crosses. They are also pretty easy from cuttings and are often rooted to keep the same cultivar. Anything from seed would be a new hybrid.

Does that help at all or make it worse? LOL

The best way to find out the differences is to grow them. I grow both. Daturas are annuals and provide plenty of seed for the next year. Brugmansias are perennial in our area and hardly ever produce seed probably because they don't have enough time to set seed before our first frost. Daturas can bloom almost non-stop when they are mature enough whereas brugmansias have a flush or two of blooms with the biggest flush of blooms in late summer/early fall. Daturas typically don't get very tall but that varies with type and growing conditions whereas brugmansia can get over 7 foot tall in one season in our area. Brugmansias can be a small tree in frost free zones (I saw one in Thailand that was probably 20 foot tall or taller). Brugmansias have a very pleasant aroma especially at night and the few daturas I've grown (double yellow and double purple) are NOT the most pleasing of smells. The seedpods are different as well; daturas have a thorny pod (its also called "thorn apple" for obvious reasons) while brugmansia has a smooth, elliptical pod (if I remember right because I've only seed a couple on my plants over the years).

Only makes it worse if you're trying to find a place to go with a plant that may grow 15 - 20' high and wide. Dats can grow 5'x5' they would be a little easier to site bu not much.
Brugs in containers wouldn't get that big I'm sure because they would have a limited root system. I wonder if they will still bloom.
Oh Badseed I guess I'm just going to have to go back to school for horticulture because this hobby is staring a major need to know in my head.

What can I say?

Someone on the datura thread told me that seeds were the best way to grow them because they do so weel by seed. Also I've been told that Brugs are better suited for cuttings rooted in water. I don want to grow both but as I said above its siting these things. You may think its not even December yet and she's looking for new sites but see it will take me all of the next 5 months to convince my DH to part with a lot more lawn.

My most gardening challenege???? MY husband!!!

Unless you are going to keep your brug in a heated greenhouse year round, don't count on it reaching 15-20 feet. I store mine for the winter and get them back out come spring and they are only reliable to about 8'. Some grow larger and many others stay smaller. I grow most of them in 25 gallon pots and they usually don't get a lot taller than me. If you are going to store it each winter and get it back out, you should have no problem planning a space for it to get more like 6-10' tall.

I grow all mine in containers. It's too hard to dig them up after 6 months in the ground! LOL

Let me find you a pic of mine from this summer. All were grown from cuttings and bloomed like crazy.

You definitely have room for both! If you put the datura in, say a gallon pot, you can expect it to only be a couple of feet tall. Datura do usually bloom quicker though.

Here we go. These were sent to me as cuttings in March/April. I rooted them and planted them in the 25 gallon pots in June. This gives you a good idea of the size they will reach. This picture was taken October 2nd when I was getting ready to put them away for winter.

Here is another pic for you.

Ah thank! I feel alot better now. I can handle a 5' to 8' plant better than a 20' x20' plant know what I mean?

I was kinda hoping to put a brug in each 1/2 whiskey barrel and dragging them into the garage every fall. Then I have some pots not quite as big around as the 1/2 barrels but big for the daturas. Those pots I can site out in the yard and listen to the "I've got to mow around them???? "

Now the daturas I would just throw out every fall after collecting the seed pods? Correct? Brugsmansia I woulkd cut down and drag in the garage. Right?

Can I winter sow the dat seeds in January? Or is it best to wait til May as I believe someone had told me that is what I should do. Do they grow that quickly that they'll bloom soon after seeding?

Guess I'll just have to jump in with both feet and give it a whirl and learn the hard way. huh

Yep, Badseed those are what I want!!! They grow that fast from cuttings really? Beautiful and I will get me some. I have 3 whiskey barrels one in front and two in back. I can get all three in the garage in fall. with no problem. I'm dreaming of a brugs summer. with every pivtue that I see.........

You CAN store Datura but I really do not see any benefit to it as they bloom so quickly from seed and the seeds are easy to come by. So yes, collect the seeds (don't let the pods bite ya!) and pitch the plants. If you dead head them through the summer, they will bloom more then let them pod later in the year before it gets too cold. I would not sow seeds too early unless you really want them blooming in the house. LOL They can bloom at less than a foot tall!

The whiskey barrels should work well. I normally throw in a handful of Osmocote when I pot them. As the year goes on, I hit them with MG, seafood emulsion, epsom salt, etc when I think about it and that is not too often these days. LOL

I don't cut my brugs back unless I have to. Parts of them may experience die back anyway, so if I can fit them into whatever area, I don't cut anything off until spring (unless someone wants a branch). Then in spring I can trim them for shape. I like them tree shaped when I can grow them that way but sometimes they are more bush formed. I do often trim off a nice straight branch and start over. I like the tree shape so I can plant under them. ;)

Oh, you could always offer to weed eat around the big pots and maybe that would help keep hubby calm. LOL Once he smells them at night and sees how pretty they are, maybe you can win him over......

Of course some brugs are more willing to bloom than others too. That is a one gallon trade pot.

Ah thats what I want alright. Not pink but white or maybe yellow I'm a hot or warn color person with reds, oranges, yellows and purples. I have a few pink by accident and some blue and whites.

Now I can't wait til spring.

Before I moved, all my front gardens were cool colors with some yellow mixed in and the whole back yard was hot colors. It made you feel like you were two totally different places. The front garden was more cottage, homey, perennial mix. My pond was in back along with all my tropical plants. (whispering....the back yard was my favorite place to hang out).

Both datura and brugmansia are very easy to grow. I'm not sure how cold hardy brugs would be in your area but I would definitely take some indoors for insurance. Ours dies to the ground each year but always comes back. Here is 'Charles Grimaldi' at our last house - each year it got bigger. Some people in our area have half their yard planted in brugmansias.

Datura seed can be bought on eBay which is a very easy transaction. Consider getting a multiple selection from one of the sellers. I just bought triple yellow, double purple, double white, single white (inoxia), and LaFleur Lilac in late summer.

My bakc yard is my favorite hangout as well. We put in a small pond this pass August and am looking forward to brugs and dautras mixed with my cannas and elephant ears by the pond. Oh I am just so excited I can hardly contain myself. And I've what 5, 7 months to wait?!!!!!!! I'm in big trouble.

I received some datura seeds in Oct. 4 different ones nut all purple. One is a double purple and a LaFluer Lilac. Those are the ones I remember off hand without going up and getting them. I still need to wauit to sow them until May right???? double ditto my above post.

Went up for coffee and checked there was five...along with afore mentioned there i one marked purple, lavatula and lavender. There is loads of dees.. will they all germinate? I'll need more containers!

Maybe you should hold off until February or March at least if you do not want them blooming in the house. LOL Sometimes they are a bit fickle about starting but a bit of bottom heat will clear that right up. Treat them them like a pepper plant in most respects. I've also sprouted them using the baggie method.

When we moved, I claimed the front yard as MINE! My new pond is dead center of the front yard. The weirdest thing about going from 1/4 of an acre to 7 1/4 acres, is realizing I don't have to plant everything just "in the yard". LOL

7 1/4 acres I WISH. We have a 1/2 acre lot and some of it is taken up by the house the garage the driay. A unavoidable hazard I guess. If we could just moive the house to like across the street? make the vet move that would be just perfect.

LOL Well, we've wanted to do it for about 10 years and have probably always discussed it. Having six daughters and watching them grow up, we decided it was time to get them out of the city. Where we live now is pretty rural. It took a small miracle and a lot of debt and guts, but we did it. :)

It was the opposite for me. I needed to be in the city when the kids were small. Easier to get to store the kids schools (at one point all four were in four different schools), getting them to friends houses. Now they are all older I'd like to get out with more planting room and less traffic, noise and problems.. Guess that'll have to wait a few more years though until DH retires then maybe we can move out somewhere. Like Georgia? Tennessee? Florida??? WARM is my only request.

According to the winter sown database, datura can be winter sown in your zone.

X

I do miss the convenience of the city and having everything close but I don't miss the schools and things have started getting a little rougher down there. The kids want to have animals and love the freedom to run. We do have to drive about 20 minutes for the grocery and Walmart and such and about 40 minutes for malls, Target and the like. Had we stayed, my oldest would have had to ride a city bus with business people and others to go to a better school that she did test into. :) I don't regret the move one bit but will be much happier when we sell our other house.

When I grow up, I plan to be at least a zone 7 or 8. LOL

I can winter sow the daturas????? yay yippee!!! Just feels like I'd be getting closer to having them if I can do that. This will be my first year at winter sowing so I won't put all the seeds out but I van put some!!!! Thats great news!!!

Thanks Xeramtheum for the info.....Wintersown database is that wintersown.org????? Whereis there a list for what can be sown where according to zone? Maybe I should have investigated the site a bit more???

I actually got it from Garden Web a few years ago. I've been tempted to upload it to my site so people can download it, but I'm a bit hesitant without the authors permission and it doesn't indicate the author except for the name Ron. It goes from zone 0 to 10.

The C column is the zone D is whether or not it germinated and E if it was transplanted.

X

You know what? I saw that kind of set-up before. I was just browsing but DH wanted to get going so I didn't save it. Now just to see if I can remember where I found it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'm gonna go see if I can find it now.