Your talking about that fertilizer and if it is dangerous is such a coincidence because today I was spraying my yard with a fertilizer and didn't use any mask and I was thinking I really should be wearing protection though I never have with fertilizer. But it is full of chemicals too and esp. now after reading how dangerous that Hi-yield Di-syston systemic, specifically Disulfoton is, I need to reevaluate what I use and the protection I use too. Jeanette, your story really brings that fact home to me. Without doing enough research, I have used too much Disulfoton from using that Bayer 2 in 1 rose granules and even if only 1% - ICK! And all over my yard. I wish I could vacuum it all up now. At least my boy had left home by the time I started using it. With Google, there really is no excuse not to educate myself so at least I know what the issues are and can make an informed decision.
I remembered reading about a possible connection between Milorganite and Lou Gehrig’s disease because of the high ALS rate among the San Francisco 49ers so I just googled it. And they have researched the connection but found no relationship but the numbers sure make you wonder what is going on. From all the articles on Google, it seems to be connected to golf, football, and even the Malorganite plant. It is scary.
That is such a tough disease. I am so sorry Jeanette that your family had such a tragedy strike.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:vvO462lMBp0J:turf.lib.msu.edu/1980s/1987/8709BC.pdf+Milorganite+lou+gehrig%27s&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=8&ie=UTF-8
"Question: Milorganite, a natural organic nitrogen fertilizer frequently used on golf courses, has beenreported by the press to be linked to Lou Gehrig's disease: amyotrophic lateral sclerosis - ALS. Has this been proved beyond any doubt?
(Indiana)Answer: It has absolutely not been proved at all. In fact, federal and state (Wisconsin)health officials have stated there is no connection and no need to study further the relationship between Milorganite and ALS. The federal and state epidemiologists criticized the ALS researcher who made the "suggestion" in the first place"
Shoot, my link does not work, so if you are interested, I just google - Milorganite Lou Gehrig's.
This message was edited Sep 3, 2006 12:04 AM
mites mites mites and more mites
I've read you should wash your welcome mat often because of all the junk that gets on your shoes....pesticides, fertilizers, who knows what else you're tracking in your house.
Do stadiums use astroturf now or grass?
I wonder why Milorganite has/had such high levels of lead, cadmium and other heavy metals...what are people flushing down their toilets? Food for thought...eeewwwww
They spent millions on astroturf, all over the country; however, the astroturf was the source of so many injuries that they went back to grass. I doubt every team did, but many went back to grass, and, sure enough, less injuries, still lots of injuries but not as many as with the astroturf...
Bet they aren't using Milorganite on the grass. I really find it interesting that these people find it so surprising that the normal people question them. Who do they think they are? Arrogance is a disease going around these days.
Kell, Milorganite is a sludge made from human waste.
Yes Kell, it was a real tragedy with my dad. He was terrified that my mom would not be able to take care of him and put him in a nursing home. She was about half his size and moved him from his bed to his chair in the living room, fed, bathed him etc. She was not a nurse. We wanted to pay for help for her but everyone they had in to help them had something wrong with them. You know how that is. They, like myself never wanted a stranger in their home.
I am going to google your link. Thanks, Just be careful Girl. Don't trust the "experts". As with all of this other stuff too.
Jeanette
Ah, hum, Jnette, they are likely using Ironite, (lol), but I would not be at all surprised...course I understand that Ironite is now in compliance, who knows...and I totally agree, Jnette, never trust the 'experts'. I tape Paul James for Sunday afternoons and today he talked about all the stuff being put on yards, flowers, gardens, etc, are 'chemicals', he said, even water. I 'heard' him, ya know...
LOL, Ok Sherry, I promise I won't water my plants. I will also hide my head in the sand.
I guess if I hadn't had the personal experience with Milorganite (regardless of what the experts say) then I wouldn't feel so strongly against it.
And, I realize that all of these other chemicals are bad also. You know, when we were little kids my dad sprinkled DDT everywhere because of bedbugs. Sometimes I think the bugs are not as bad as the crap we are using to get rid of them. Is that called Organic gardening????
As for the DDT, 50 years from now they will be saying the same things about all of the stuff we are throwing our money away on today. Do I get out a knife and fork out for the spider mites to help themselves to my brugs? LOL
I don't know, if one doesn't kill you the other one will.
Jeanette
I wasn't surprised about the water, but the town where I grew up is rather industrial, with chemicals out the kazoo and we had a cement pond too, and daddy put all the back wash water, as well as the city water on his garden, flowers and grass and he won the yard of the month at least every other year. Who knows?? All we can do is the best we can do.
Paul James says that we should dwell on natural predators re the bugs in our garden and concentrate on the pH of our soil. He did say that plants in containers could have fertilizer, since the nutrients in pots is washed away. Well, my pH is supposed to be 'perfect', so I'm thinking that there is a little more to it than pH. I really enjoy him and you are right, Jnette, if one thing doesn't kill you, something else will...
I like Paul James, he's funny and he doesn't talk 'above' everyone.
I'm trying not to use pesticides because of that awful testing they do. I took back the Orthene after I read about it. And then I pulled the Hibiscus because of the thrips that were on it. I'm going to really try and not buy pesticides, unless they aer approved by PETA.
Yes, one thing will get us but hopefully it will be later then sooner and not too painful.
My dad used to spray in our cellar with what I think was DDT to kill termites and all around the foundation. We used to play in the cellar all winter. And he also had my brother crawl thru this 3 ft wide space spreading it out to get termites on the perimeter. I remember he was all happy he had so much left over since it had been take off the market for being too dangerous. What was he thinking???
So today I moved a few plants around and saw this........on a prize clivia. Boy did I want to do murder with the most poisonous of the poisons. LOL. It was so thick with them in the joints under my pollen tags. Gross or what
Sherry, when is Paul James on? On what channel? I used to watch him all the time but haven't seen him in a long time.
Kell, what did that damage? You remember the DDT too huh?
You know? When I logged into this thread it just dawned on me that this was a thread started by Ted Nugent. I have not seen his name since. Has anyone else? I think we hyjacked his thread and I surely am sorry about that.
I do not want to be a party to that kind of activity. It appears that 3 or 4 of us have taken it over. I am really sorry Ted.
Jeanette
Paul James is on HGTV, 10:30 AM Saturday, on dish anyway.
Ted might be on tour. ;) It's not really taking over his thread....he'll probably join in when he can. I don't mind if others take over my thread even if I'm not on there. Sometimes threads get a life of their own and that's a good thing....IMHO.
Kell, that is nasty looking!
It's dove season, I bet Ted is hunting...
It's not my thread I just started it.I feel I learn more by listening to others. This is my first year with brugs so it is also my first experience with mites(at least on such a massive scale)I think I imported them with brugs I purchased on Ebay.
I have decided to destroy all my brugs that aren't handling the mites well(not much left to save anyway) and start over.so I'm left with mm,earth angel and a couple labeled vixen that I started from seed maybe two actinus australius.As deer are a massive problem here and I'm somewhat obscessed with brugs now I plan on getting more If anyone knows where to get cuttings or seeds that are known to be mite tolerant please let me know. I'm not particular with the breed white,pink, orange etc etc etc I have learned my lesson and I'm only wanting healthy heat tolerant varieties. that bloom alot not much to ask for huh?
You are so nice, Ted!! We are lucky to have you on this forum!!
Mite tolerant, heat tolerant, bloom a lot.... gosh! ted, suppose you want that elusive purple brug, too! lol Check your dmail.
Ted, I was just sure you were out mite hunting. I was thinking you might have bagged enough for dinner. LOL
Ted, AuntB sent you a D-Mail so I am assuming she has some for you. I do NOT want any more brugs but I surely would like the infomration she is sending you. Such as what brugs she has that are free of mites, heat tolerant, deer don't like, and bloom year round. Yeah, yeah. If you believe that one I have a bridge etc.
Jeanette
I only have 5 brugs at the moment, so I'm probably not a good indicator as to what's out there, but I can share what I've experienced this summer. There are lots more experienced people than I (Vicki, Kell, Kareoke, AuntB, etc.) that would probably be able to help you out much better.
Whiskers would be hands down the most heat and bug tolerant of them all. Also, I think once mine is bigger, it will give many large flushes frequently. Right now, it's under 3 feet, and had a flush of 10 blooms that was enormous for such a small plant.
Next would be Insignis Double White and Suaveolens yellow. They are both in full sun all day and tolerated the 90+ degrees and 75% humidity very well. They have not "Y'd" yet, so I've seen no blooms, but next year, hopefully will be a different story.
My unknown pink would be next. It wilts and pouts. So, it only gets full sun from about 10:00 a.m. until 2:00 p.m. Other than that, no bugs and is going through a huge flush (over 160 blooms) right now. Beautiful blooms. You can check it out in my posting.
My least favorite is the Enchanted Double White. Bugs love her, she wilts, AND she drops all her buds. I've tried everything with her, and she's looking better (foliagewise), but still no blooms. She also seems to attract mites, but I do not get them very badly in my area.
Hope this helps!
Whoa... I'm not saying I've never had a mite, and I do have some wilting when its 103 for days, but they always perk up at sundown... Last time I dealt with mites was April 05 on my baby morning glories inside. (I'm knocking on wood) They all get at least 8 hours of direct sun. My big brugs are all in pots- 25gal w/cord handles, in spring I mix some Bayer Rose Insecticide (? I'm at work, can't remember the name of it).. into some fresh potting mix, add some worm castings and scratch into the surface of the soil... When I repot I use the same ingredients, except if they are small plants being potted up a size, I water them in with water that has peroxide mixed in... about a 1 peroxide to 7 or 8 water ratio. I also use the ratio of 2parts water 1 part peroxide and a few drops of NON antibacterial dish soap in a sprayer every couple of weeks during the growing season. Which is from about May to October (if we're lucky). My zone is 5b.. I have Pink Beauty, Peach Versi, Maya, and 2 unnamed-pink & a yellow... Maya so far is my favorite. She is on her 4th flush this year and was the 1st to bloom on the end of May. She even bloomed in the basement in January.... PB & P.versi are in a heighth contest and PB is winning by over a ft., they have to both be over 10 ft. They both offer blooms always in September and this year PB bloomed a few blooms the end of June and has buds now. P.versi is covered with hundred(s)? of buds that will burst this weekend. The oldest pink unknown I started from seed is the tallest brug I have and is about to burst, also... (happy time in the garden!)... I feed them 20-20-20, 2x week and offer ironite 2 or 3 times a season and epsom salt when necessary. The watering is endless - 2 or 3 times a day when it's 100 degrees for days. If storms are forecast we lay the big ones down and have brought young ones into the diningroom. In a few weeks they will all be cut back considerably, (the basement ceiling is only so high) and I will try keep alive but not actively growing with sparse watering and light from a small south window above their heads. I also will be scratchin in a bit of the Rose stuff this weekend in preparing the soil for the (hopefully bug-free) winter rest. The 6 smaller ones don't get as much fertilizer or Rose stuff as the big ones. Oh, I also have one I think is Dr Suess.... still waiting- 3rd year no blooms. Sometimes I think, these are just too much work, I need to get rid of some, but when I sit in the garden tomorrow evening and smell them and see them....... it's like love at first site... all over again! So far the best bloomer is Maya, prettiest foliage, Maya. Call me crazy, call me obsessed... I like them ALL. Hmmmmmm Whiskers............
Here in zone 8 in southeast Arky, so many of the brugs you are discussing don't do well here. I have my best luck with rooted brugs from the bubbler, and I have great luck with seedlings, they tend to bloom the first year and that's always fun. I learn something new about brugs all the time, and this year it's that if they aren't in the right place, they won't do squat - I knew that but I guess I didn't believe it...
AuntB, have you ever thought of a drench of some kind to run through them before putting them to bed for the winter (inside) to kill any bugs and eggs in the soil? And if so, what would you use? Or just the systemic that is in the rose care?
Unless I am mistaken, at least the rose care that I used to use, said not to use in containers, even though I have to admit, I do. How do you determin how much to use in those large containers?
How far down to you cut those 10 footers to put them in the basement? and I would imagine you are cutting all of your branches, therefore, the Ys off? Do you bubble. or root, the top? Or just discard it?
Jeanette
Hi Sherry,
When do you start your seedlings to get them to bloom the first year? Have you started any yet for next year? And, do you keep them under lights in the winter?
Jeanette
Jeanette,
The systematic is used in the fall as a bug deterant. I like to think I use it at the right time to give the stuff a while to soak into the pot and do it's "magic". Really? It says not to use in containers? I have always used it with mine. I use 2-4 tablespoons, less for the smaller pots. I'll also spray some Expert bug spray a few times during winter and at least once with a miticide. As far as fitting them into the basement, I do my best to keep as much on the top as possible but yes, sometimes I do have to cut the y's, but usually not the lowest Y's and as long as I can keep the stems green and not dieing back they bloom sooner. As far as the parts I cut off, I have kept them and used a bubbler in a bucket of water in winter and they are rooted (very well) by spring. Usually people don't want cuttings above the Y so they are discarded. Cutting is not my favorite gardening task, believe me.
Sherry,
You're in zone 8, are they in the ground and do you leave them in the ground in winter? I did drilled pot with my versi the 1st year, but I'm not getting younger and I was out there in the dark digging it up cause of a frost warning... it was stressful!
I wonder if your H2O2 spray helps cut down on your mites, Aunt B. I meant to use that this summer and I started out right but soon forgot. What do you find it does for your brugs? Do you add it as a bug deterrent or as a tonic? It sounds like your brugs are well loved and well cared for. You must post a few pics of your Peach Versi when it blooms, I bet it is spectacular. You lucky duck.
I'm happy to report I'm winning the battle (sort of).I only found mites on 1 brug yesterday and I only used very little chemicals ,non organic some kind of ortho systemic too bad only 4 Brugs survived the war though but oh well lesson learned. its funny how some plants keel over so quickly from them while other tolerate the mites better. I had a Ep that died in a matter of weeks you could watch the leaves turn yellow and fall off I think the almost daily spraying with water has done the most good .The most important thing I think I have learned is to get very healthy plants from reputable growers cant get over how strong of a plant mm is grows in heat,10 hours a day of Texas sun,grows in almost full shade also(bout 3 hrs of sun) fought off the mite invasion and has put out at least 4 flushes of fragrant blooms not to mention my biggest plant grew from a inch and a half long log cutting.
Well, I do what I can. I think the H202 spray does help keep the mites away and it helps with white fly, too and probably hoppers; I also like it cause it seems more environmentally friendly. I add it for whatever it can offer to them, tonic or buggie. I also spray them with water, topside and underside, if we don't get rain-every 3-4 days. I know the mites don't like water either. All my big brugs are going to burst this weekend, it's very exciting! Going to the BF's tonight, hope I don't miss anything.
Kell, when it is sizzling hot I use, at night ONLY (will toast leaves if the sun is up), H202, along with SuperThrive, Micro Mix, some lime and liquid dishwashing soap, grapefruit flavor. About once a month, I toss Epsom Salt at the base of the plants because I CANNOT get it to dissolve, to use as a foliar spray, I've even tried to microwave it and I put it in the blender, no luck. I quit using fert, because I figured it was too much stress, since we had a drought along with the heat.
AuntB, I've been meaning to ask you your zone number, I'm a real zonie and believe that many could leave brugs in the ground, as I do, if they are well mulched, and I don't mean half way, but WELL mulched. I hate cutting too and getting in the plants I do take in, a few tropicals, but I leave my bananas, Upees, all jasmine, all brugs, except the ones in the bubbler, in the ground to winter. Last year I separated all like cuttings, but this year I won't be doing that, I think I had maybe 20 bubblers, some small jars, but this winter I'll have two or three tanks, aquarium tanks about 18 inches high and two feet long, I'll put them end to end along the wall, and I will have NO potted brugs in the GH. Last year I left out a favorite in a pot and it 'died' and I tried to pull it outta the pot and couldn't, but I'll be darn if it didn't wake up and,at the end of June, it rose from the dead, and is now blooming, one of Kyle's. After I drag those pots in the fall, I'm so exhausted it takes me forever to recover. I'm busy and active, I ride my Bent daily, but lifting pots is less fun than cutting and I have dollys of several sizes that REALLY but it still makes me feel like I've been run over by a truck.
Jnette, I guess I've just been lucky with my seedlings. First year (this is my 3rd brug season), I didn't have many seedlings but I favored one, put it in a tomato box and it bloomed between 3 1/2 & 4 1/2 months (cannot remember exact time), but it was beautiful and fragrant and in a pot - that was my goal, my first year, I was thrilled, but I lost a host of rootings, Butterfly, which broke my heart, but I got blooms on Versi Peach, which I never expected. 2nd year, I had seeds from Kell/Kyle and a few others, I think, bad memory, and my word, I hit the jackpot, the seeds were put in the rockwool in Feb, I think, and they started blooming, just like cuttings, as if the seeds had been 'above the Y'. Several were hit by limbs and it seemed to speed up their blooming. Jnette, the first year I had the seedlings under the light and it blew up and I never replaced it. In my zone, a light is not necessary. I love rockwool because I start them inside and if my Golden knocks them over, no dirt to clean up. Rockwool is amazing. But, I'm so bad, after I found out I could root, grow seed, have early bloomers, seeds or bubbler, grow them from scratch, all the way through, I've regained interest in plants upon which I failed before I grew brugs, and I have renewed interest in my garden.
So, here is a photo of a Kyle 2nd year seedling that bloomed this week, it is the one that wintered in the pot outside, that woke up in June. It is pretty and smells like heaven, makes me swoon, I like everything about it, lovely calyx that hugs nicely - only one little problem, on the tip of each calyx, there is a teeny, tiny, identical brown spot. Didn't do that last year, could be the heat, if it is, considering the looooong tendrils, I might decide she is a keeper...her color is truly prettier than in the pic, I think the flash does something to the color, ya think??
Wow! I like that, Sherry. Is it really deep pink like that? Gorgeous! I too spray my brugs in the evenings, once they'll remain shaded for the day... We've had rain all week-end and not much sun, I have 3 brugs blooming and waiting on 2.. I was out wandering about during a break in the showers.. I wish I had at least another month before I bring plants in..
That is a real pretty brug Sherry. Jeanette
AuntB, the brug is deep pink, but not like the photo, which apparently was 'discolored' by the flash, it has no blue in it, but is more orange/pink and the entire blossom is the same color. It seems that every brug I photo at night is two toned and the daytime photos are all washed out and neither is a true representation of their colors. I wish I was in photo snapping moods in the early morning, maybe when the weather cools off more, the spirit will move me. We need rain so badly - every day I say I will do no more watering, but it seems that I always do.
Thanks, Jnette, except for those tiny spots on the end of the points on the calyx, it is a nice brug,, and to have done well in this hot/dry summer, I'm going to give her another chance.
Yeah Sherry, it would be a shame to compost her. I have a Milk and Honey about to open. IThis is a first for her so it will be fun to see how it does. I got her from Blaine.
My silly grand girls brought 4 baby chicks to the garden to dine on the bugs. I'll tell ya, if you don't have Bantam chicks, you are missing out on something fun, and nice for your garden, but you cannot turn your backs on them or your nice mulch will have holes in it. Oh, yeah, I guess the kids add to the fun too. The twins are 12 today, going on about 17...
You know, there are a lot of little animals like the chix that are fun. In fact, I am considering starting a miniature donkey farm. farmette. Nothing big 'cause I don't know how much I can take care of. But, I think they would be fun also.
If I got rid of most of these brugs I probably wouldn't have any more work with donkeys.
So your grands are 12 going on 17? Too bad. You know, the kids grow up so fast don't they? They aren't young long.
Jeanette
That was a bit of an exaggeration, Jnette. They are just in the 6th grade, missed the first the cutoff by 10 days, so they have always been the oldest ones in their class and they had a sister 15, and a brother 13. They are the youngest in their dancing and acrobatics class, softball team, tennis and they were the youngest at camp this summer, so they are around older children lotz of the time. I'm out and about with children frequently and I'm finding kids to be nice and mannerly. With mine, I think so of it is because they spend lotz of time with adults. They do grow up fast, no matter what, I can remember the moment each one was born, clear as a bell, but how they got this big, this quickly is a mystery!!! Donkeys? We are considering miniature horses. The kids want a monkey, but I've drawn the line on that one, I told them that was something they could get when they grow up. I always wanted one to, but I really outgrew that when I realized how much time it required, especially keeping them and their crate clean, whew!!