I think the bad thing about using it is the secondary toxicity from birds eating the insects that have been treated with this insecticide. If you google the chemical name disulfoton, you can find more info.
http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/Profiles/disulfoton.htm
mites mites mites and more mites
Ok, after reading most of the stuff on the links provided by you all, I have come to the conclusion that what little I use is not going to hurt me, my guests, my animals, or any wild birds. If I find a one legged, or a 3 legged frog on my deck I might change my mind.
For your information here is a note I received from the lady I purchased mine from:
Hi again, Jeanette! I talked with my BWI rep today...we buy the HiYield Products from them. He said that they have only 105 cases of it left and then it will be gone, H/Y is no longer going to manufacture it. They can legally sell it until it's gone and so can I. Apparently Bayer owns the chemical now, and they are going to do something else with it.
This same thing happened a few years ago...maybe 1999...and we couldn't get it anymore...then it was back when HiYield bought it. Like all these serious chemicals, it should be used carefully and according to directions.
So, it will be interesting to see what happens with the Bayer products also. I think I will buy another container (jug) of the Rose Care 2 in 1 since I do like to use it in the summer instead of the Hi-Yield.
Gosh Fly girl, I never even thought about the contaminated insects the birds ate or even the contaminated seeds that the article talks about. Are you an organic gardener? I know I should garden that way, but I am so lazy and want an instant fix. I have even been buying more organically grown veggies/fruits at the store this summer though they sure are expensive. So if you garden organically, can you use all these chemical fertilizers or are they verboten too? I guess that is a stupid question! LOL
Jeanette, I always limited it to my pots too because I hated to contaminate my soil where I dig. A good plan! I haven't seen anything written about an 8%. Just the 2% and the 15%. Don't you just hate mites? Why do they have to make our lives so miserable?? You know a nursery man told me a couple of years ago that Bayer had bought up lots of the patents and that is why Ortho and other companies had to stop selling the systemics. They sure have roared onto the garden scene. I sure hope they come out with some great less toxic alternatives for us all.
Kell, I'm an organic gardener wanna be, I try to use the least toxic and tolerate some bugs as part of life.
I don't want to come off like I'm a know-it-all but I think disulfoton is pretty dangerous stuff, especially since it's a broad spectrum insecticide. The beneficials are always fewer than the bad guys so they'll always have something to eat, so I hate to kill any of them.
Do any of you remember when there was a similar incident discussed on this forum with regard to Ironite?? Hoo Boy, we were told that any use of the product would turn our gardens into toxic dumps. There was a lawsuit and my understanding is that Ironite tweaked the ingredients and never missed a beat. I expect something like that will happen with the hi-yield product. I hope Bayer does buy it, I like what I've been seeing with Bayer - maybe they will improve the di-syston and make it more effective and less toxic...but I won't be holding my breath...
So Ironite is OK to use now, Sherry? I have stayed clear of it. I remember I had just applied it to my soil when I read about it on here. I couldn't believe I had just used it, like the first time in years. I do not think I will ever use it again regardless. But do tell, is it now safe? Was it always safe? I still avoid the garden spot where I had put it.
But I will say insecticides do scare me more. They really can kill you. Just use good technique with whatever you use. My personal problem is I always get whatever I am using all over myself. No matter how hard I try to be careful, I always do some dumb thing like stand down wind at some point. Or once the sprayer hose blew off and the pump was so pressurized it shot up into my face like a gusher. I was soaked in it. Thank God it was just Neem but to this day I can puke when I smell it. You should see the get up I have bought to spray Forbid. I will scare all my neighbors into moving. LOL
Oh Fly_girl, good for you to try. It is just so hard to know what to do and if it is really helpful. Yesterday I was talking to 2 friends who have done refinishing of furniture for 40 years and often not in well ventilated places. They should both be dead from all those really bad chemicals but one is 80 and one 78, both going strong. So you never know. They both were laughing at all the warnings about the chemicals they use. I wouldn't go into their refinishing room with that chemical smell, they thought I was silly. I even felt toxic just standing at the door smelling it. I swear I could feel my liver sighing. I prefer to kill mine with Lemon Drops. My newly discovered summer drink of choice. LOL
LOL....Lemon Drops is a drink?
You should have seen me the other day......my Plumeria, which never blooms BTW, had about 20 assassin bug nymphs and they really creep me out. But, I decided I wanted to relocate them to my Brugs. It was really scary because those suckers bite! I scooped them into a jar one at a time and moved them, it took me about an hour to move just 10 of them. I wished I would have had a getup to wear for that.
I didn't read that about Ironite, I use that from time to time, where is the thread?
Oh yes, Lemon Drops, the ultimate summer drink. Lots of fresh squeezed lemon. And yesterday I bought Lemoncello to use in it instead of Triple Sec. Just for fun. I usually only drink wine and sake but I must tell you this stuff is so good. Lemon is my favorite flavor. I just wish they had no alcohol in them so I could drink more than 1.
So are assassin bugs good? Or do you just hate your brug? LOL. They sound terrible. LOL Hey, I have been having lots of plumeria blooms this summer. A real thrill. You know Clare over in the Plumeria Forum might be able to help you with your nonblooms. She is a plumie master and my mentor.
Anyway, Ironite supposedly has/had arsenic and lead, real toxic levels of them. I know some states outlawed its use.
Web address:
.iatp.org/iatp/library/admin/uploadedfiles/Governor_Signs_Into_Law_
Restrictions_on_Arseni.htm
I had to alter the address for the link would not work. So you need to enter h ttp://www in front and delete the space after the h then paste. For some reason Dave's hates my links.
I have enough troubles without inviting more so I just do not use it. I did read up on it when I first heard about it, and though the company swore the levels were OK, I just had no way to know who was right. Do a search and I bet you can find a few threads on it on Dave's. It is where I first heard about the dangers it posed. There are tons of articles on it on google too.
This message was edited Aug 30, 2006 7:18 PM
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This message was edited Aug 30, 2006 7:21 PM
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Kell, my aunt and I had our Ironite taken to the dump for toxic stuff, we paid $10. So, a while back, we were at a sod farm with my brother, making arrangement to have his yard sodded for the third time (bad luck, whew!) - an 18 wheeler rolled into the loading dock. When they opened the door and it was filled full of Ironite in huge sacks, stuffed in the truck. They used one of those loader machines to unload about 1/2 of the truck, it was a HUGE pile of sacks, just huge. We got so tickled, I mean we could not believe our eyes. I asked the driver if he ever heard Ironite was toxic. He laughed and said he didn't know, but, he told us he delivered Ironite to every sod farm he knew about in the states of Arky, TN, part of OKLA, MS and some others I forget, oh, Birmingham/Mobile. According to this guy, and the amount we saw him leave there, many sod growers use Ironite, in huge quantities, and their chemicals are strictly regulated, like any and all farmers. I only used Ironite once before I heard about the toxic stuff but I wasn't impressed with it anyway, so I won't replace it...but, now that I know it's used on sod, I can tell ya, that's some really green grass...
I had no idea about the ironite, it would really
green up stuff too, drat!
The assassin bugs are beneficial, but not on your
milkweed, they eat cats.
I'll check out the Plumeria section, thanks
Those Lemon Drops sound delish, I'm a one-max
drinker too, have you
thought of lemonade? lol
This message was edited Aug 30, 2006 8:12 PM
Home Depot has tons of it too, Sherry. When I walk by it, I hold my breath. LOL Hard to know in this world of ours when so many things are upside down, who to believe and what to do. I still have a huge bag of it, I found it under some bags of soil the other day. I need to get it out of here before the bag decomposes because then I will feel so contaminated sweeping it all up.
Does this thread look too wide to you?
LOL Fly girl, I love lemonade, the real kind you cook on the stove. It is a catch 22, the alcohol helps make it taste so good and gives you that warm flush as you sit outside at dusk looking over your little slice of buggy heaven with your man! LOL
1st - thanks KELL for -- http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Index.html
2nd - Bayer owns the patent on a lot of chemicals - they license them out for 5 or 10 years , if they become popular , they raise the price to other companies and start making it themselves .
An example is ortho systemic rose food . They took off market when there agreement with Bayer expired , but Ortho lowered there price and put on special / sale . I ran out of the dry food about the middle of last year . I bought all I could find and still have 3 cans of spray left .
Dicofol (=Kelthane)- I can't find except for over a $100
Acephate (=Orthene),- I think it is not for sale anymore
dimethoate (=Cygon), - I didn't like - don't remember why
chlorpyrifos (=Dursban), - You need a license unless you tell them it's for termites - I use for grubs - rotate with grub-ex
diazinon, - I have about 1/2 of a 25 lb bag left - I put 1/2 cup and 1/2 cup of either grub-ex or Dursban in a 2 cu ft bag of potting soil .
disulfoton (=Di-syston),- it's in bayer 3-1 tree and shrub and 2-1 rose food .
malathion - stopped using it - it turns into food for bugs , insects after 3 days - I don't need to feed newly hatched because they were in neighbors yard or hiding where I didn't spray .
Most of the WARNING come after someone loses a patent or license for something and they LEAK unfavorable info so they can sell there product " which is just as good but safe "
I do use a lot of DE - [ diatomaceous earth ]
http://wolfcreekranch.net/diatomaceous_earth.html
I do think Bayer is taking over the garden world, Tony! Though they are the ones that cancelled their own registration for the Di-Syston 2% with the EPA so they sure are up to something! We will have to wait and see I guess. If I need any discontinued insecticides, I know where to come now. LOL
LOL Fly _girl, for a minute I thought you had seen my big butt. But yes, now that you mention it, it is wide. I wonder why.
Hahaha Kell
Usually it's because someone typed too far to the right, it just happened a few posts ago, I shortened my post and it didn't help, can you try yours?
I don't know which of you guys did it but I wish you would fix it since
I have to keep running back and forth on the arrows. LOL Jeanette
Tell me quick how to shorten my posts. You do not mean I have to go line by line hitting enter for that would take me all night, I am so chatty. I am about to go for a walk with my husband, it is a glorious evening here.
OK, it was my altered link tha twon't work a few back, so I played with it even more and it is OK now. See you all later.
This message was edited Aug 30, 2006 7:26 PM
Much better.
Would you believe we are suppose to be down to 31 degrees tonight? I cannot believe it. I have 7 brugs out there that have never bloomed before and they are all budded. And, I have never had tomatoes this big and just getting ripe.
31 degrees!!!! It is 43 right now.
Go quick and toss a sheet over them all.
We are 63 here and it's cool, crisp, heaven. Can you move your brugs to the carport or push them under the eves and throw something on them? I will tell you that mine have stayed out in freezing temps, for a short time, and they continue to bloom. Good luck!!! A shame to have them freeze with the buds...
Just a quick glance out the window they look like they are ok. Hopefully. I think when the temps get down there they don't stay there for a prolonged length of time this time of year. Like in the winter. So, even tho the weather reports call it the coldest it isn't quite as bad as it sounds. I don't think.
Wonder if it got cold enough to do anything to all of these darned bugs??? Another cold one tonight and then up to 92 on Sunday. Can you believe that?
I have my nephew who works for Holeistier Stier a bio science type company***** DING DING DING, GUESS WHAT YOU GUYS, AS I TYPED THAT, IT JUST DAWNED ON ME THAT BAYER BOUGHT THAT COMPANY OUT ALSO!!!!!! THE ONE MY NEPHEW WORKS FOR !!!! It is a real small company and my nephew is an engineer of some kind. I bet you that Bayer also gets hold of EDEN before long!!!! Bio- Science was the magic word!!!
researching the Di-Syston. I think the reason they aren't selling it is because what they have on their shelves is put out by Hi-Yield, and Bayer bought it out so they don't want them to sell anymore.
I guess I am getting to be a real cynic in my old age but I don't think there is anything wrong with what we are using.
It is a proven toxic pesticide to humans Jeanette, so just be careful how and where you use it and make sure your pets do not drink the run off water or you or your pets dig in the treated dirt. And do not breath the dust in when you put it on your dirt. I bet a mask would be a good idea. The stuff stinks. I am sure if you can get a hold of that 4 hour video some states make you watch before you can use it in their state, it would tell you the safer ways to handle it and probably would be a good idea for all of us to watch if we use any pesticides. Just be careful! Make no di-syston soup! LOL Personally now that I know, I have decided it is too toxic for my use, but I have a thing about toxic chemicals around my yard.
I went shopping in Indianapolis yesterday with my daughter and found Systemic Housplant Insect Control granules by Bonide, in 8onz jar for $4.99 so I got two of them,it contains 1% Di-Syston, the man working in the store said it works wonders on the plants keeping bugs away all winter, well I will see how it works this winter on what few Brugs I plan to keep
Man , I am picking up a lot of information on this forum / post . Keep posting . Thanks .
Jnette - go to thrift store and get a couple of lamps .
At big box store - either tarps or that thin plastic sheet stuff painter use and extension cords .
Put the lamps under tarp - use 25watt -[ appliance / oven ] or regular 50 watt bulb .
Until it is cold a couple of days , the ground will put out heat so you won't need the lamps . Just cover plants but take off during day or you mite cook them .
I have bricks in groups of 4 all over yard . They suck up heat during day and release it at night . They are also used as stepping stones - where you can put a foot down and not be in dirt- mud .
You know that Ironite issue.....wwaaayyyy up there?
It made me think of Milorganite and how the EPA enforces guidelines on the level of heavy metals in their product. Why wouldn't the same be done for Ironite? It's so hard to know what is the right product to use.
Sherry and jnette, you are so lucky to get cool weather, it's still hotter than hades here.
Well after reading this I had to go back to ebay and purchase another 3.5 lb of di-syston before it's gone. I used it this year and it has been wonderful. I use it in my container brugs since they are the plants likely to get most stressed before they get their daily watering. I understand stress can really help the mites out. It has done a wonderful job keeping mites at bay this year. I am very careful when using. Our cat is an inside pet so no worry about that. We use a systern for water instead of ground water.
Unfortunately di-syston doesn't take care of broadmites which I did get on a couple of plants this year. When I had to spray for the BM's I told DH if something ever happens and you need to call an ambulance for me just tell them check for pesticide poisoning first, LOL.
I'm sorry Kell but I am in no way careful other than the fact I wear latex gloves when spraying. I do try to wait for a still air day.
I have used everything like Otho Systemic (Isotox), Di-Syston, Malathion, Kelthan, Neem and other pesticides since I began with brugs over 5 yrs ago. I do find that with Di-Syston I am in less contact with the product since I only had to mix it into the container when I first potted it in the spring. The other products need mixing, spraying every few days and alternating. I do have to read the label again and see how often I can add it to the container. I was thinking of adding some more to each pot before bringing it in for the winter but I want to read and make sure before doing so.
Dott
Don't be sorry to me Dott, it is your life, not mine. LOL. We all got to do what we got to do. I was bitten by 2 mosquitos the other night for the fist time in years and that West Niles virus has been found not far from here last week. As I looked down at my big bites, I was thinking I wanted all kinds of hazardous insecticides sprayed all over my yard just then. LOL. How fast we change.
Doris, Bonide was what started me on my systemic miticide search several years ago which led me to Hi-yield Di-syston. I think it was Shirley who used to use it on her plants before she brought them inside for the winter. As I recall, it worked great for her. It also kills all sucking insects like aphids and mealies.
Well, I tried Bonide last year and it just didn't do it for me. It wasn't strong enough I think. But, every time I read this thread I feel more buggy than when I am out there with my bug infested plants. LOL
Next I am going to have to spray my computer. LOL
Jnette, I haven't had a chance to see Billy yet, for his scoop on hi-yield di-syston, but I did talk with the local co-op and they said there are no recalls, no restrictions, no hold on the product and they got lots in, dated July 2006, with reg numbers, etc. I asked 'what do farmers do for mites', I was told that permits were necessary for farmers to purchase such products. I said 'I'm a farmer, could I see the products' and he said, sure, and showed me the stuff. Huge containers with serious markings on it and it is generally put out by air, sometimes via ground spray. Nope, I deliberately didn't look at the names of the stuff because I would not know how to discuss the product, if asked, but I did notice the price, like $150, per container - he said it went a long way and his operation and that of the farmer was strictly monitored. Whatever, the hi-yield is there on the shelf, about 50 or 60 'jugs', large size for $8, for any and all to purchase, no signature, number or permit necessary. He said basically that the cheaper the product, the less effective it is. I didn't learn anything I didn't already know but I almost bought a gal of horticultural oil spray, which I'd heard touted on this forum, but it only cost $14, so I figured I'd stay with Volick, Neem, Safer, dishwashing liquid soap, that I already had at home, and I left without a purchase...
Sherry, that is funny. You took up all of Billy's time to tell you that and you didn't buy anything from him? But, it was worth it to me to know that this stuff is, as I suspected, that if it is being called "illegal" it is because Bayer doesn't want any sold under Hi-Yield's name after Bayer bought it.
Thanks Sherry, and thanks to Billy too.
Jnette, Billy doesn't sell or use anything that requires a permit, he's my nursery guy, for forty years, but doesn't live as close as the county co-op place, which does carry permitted stuff. I wanted to go to the co-op first because I knew that if it wasn't permitted and regulated, that would be the best place to go. Also, the co-op guy is just a business man, with good knowledge of chemicals, but he's not a farmer and doesn't even have a garden, but he knows everything that it written and required with regard to selling chemicals. . Billy is a grower a wholesale/retail nursery man, with a small number of employees, and huge profits, because Billy is a hands on nursery man and he has honed the process of growing with the best results, with the least effort and he knows what it takes to grow stuff without regulated chemicals. Billy is the person I ultimately look to when I have a gardening problem I'm unable to solve. Don't worry about Billy not making a sale, I tell you he has landscaped everything in a huge area, in three states. I'm old enough to remember when drive-ins, such as Taco Bell, McDonalds, etc, were just box buildings with cement around them and a blinking sign. Billy brought business landscaping to this area, and, IMO, that's a big deal. As a result of experience, he does not sell anything that won't do well in this general area. One time I asked him about something I've forgotten, but say bleeding heart or tuber begonias, and he said, sure I can get you some, but you'll have to move to Knoxville or St Louie to grow them. I said 'huh', he said, they are beautiful but they will not grow here. That's why I'm so crazy about him. He will sell me dragon wing begonia all day long, but does not touch the tubers because there is no way they will grow here...happy Saturday, I'm going shopping with my son's wife, as soon as I finish my Baileys and coffee. When I went in to get the Baileys, Shuey Lin, the owner, asked - is it Bailey season already?? I laughed out loud, Shuey Lin is so funny. We go to church together and he makes being there so much fun. Well, yep, dove season, start of college football and Bailey season all start at the same time, lol, but true...I keep Baileys here in the fall to make sure my son comes by every Sat morning for coffee with Baileys, works like a charm!! BTW, Jnette, it's impossible to keep all the chemicals and sources, etc, straight, I stay confused all the time, but that is no surprise to you!!
Whoops Sherry, I reread what we both wrote and I realized I screwed up and you didn't see Billy yet. Boy I was really confused.
Dott, Guess we'll go together then huh?
Tony, I like your idea but I have about 20 or 30 plants. And, most of them are so big I can't move them. But fortunately it is warming up again. Suppose to be 92 tomorrow. I can take 92 this time of year. It is the 92 in June and July that I find really hot. The brick idea sounds really good. I have heard of putting barrels of rocks in greenhouses to heat them. They heat up during he day and it carries over all night.
BTW, Fly-girl, since you brought up the name "Milorganite", I remember years ago my mom wrote to me saying they had found this fantastic fertilizer named Milorganite and raved about it. Several years later my dad was diagnosed with Lou Gehrigs Disease, which is a nerve disease. Then I read where about 5 of the NFL football players who played for the SF 49ers died of Lou Gehrig's Disease. And they were in their mid 50's. So, putting 2 and 2 together, I determined that they all played on the grass at Kezar Stadium in SF and found out they used Milorganite on that playing field.
I don't know if anyone else ever thought about that. I didn't know they were still selling that stuff. However, if they are, they probably have changed the product. Hopefully.
Jnette, that's terrible!
In '93 or 94 the EPA set limits on the concentration of heavy metals, lead, cadmium and pathogens. So, before that it may have been pretty nasty.....I mean it is human sewage sludge although it's dried and heat disinfected.
They probably used other chemicals on that turf too...pesticides, maybe fungicdes.
Sorry about your dad.
Oh, dear, Jnette, I'm so sorry about your dad, what a dreadful disease. Our friends' son, a promising athlete, died with Lou Gehrigs, as well as X number of other athletes, two, in addition to him, I think, at his school, which led us to believe there was some connection, we ALWAYS thought there was a common denominator re something toxic and, I'd say, it is not outlandish, considering that they were all athletes, that it might be the same chemical. Have they quit using the chemical?? I have not heard of more Lou Gehrigs, but that doesn't mean there aren't more cases...
Well, 93 or 94, I hope they took care of the problem. Dad died in 1986. Sherry, I surely would think that someone besides myself would have tried to make some connection. I am neither a rocket scientist nor a biologist or chemical engineer but I can put 2 and 2 together.
Me too, Janette!! And, it really irritates me when 'scientists' seem to overlook the obvious. This is not the first time I've made that observation. That scares me, re the observations I've made that turn out to be correct. Really makes me believe that someone is asleep at the wheel...ya know??!!
I hope it's okay, I use it in my yard.
I hope so too Girl. Jeanette