LOL Carol! We just can't win can we??? So many of the miticides are not very effective. They should just say so right up front. Let us know how your Ovation does. I like Neem too esp in that it won't kill us. LOL! Also you do not have to rotate it like you do other miticides to retain its effectness.
I have read that mites over winter in the ground or on the ground in what ever they can find. I do not know if that is true for the cold climates. Then as it warms up, they move up the plant and start to feed. I wonder if we did a treatment in early spring if we could really get them once and for all or until they come in on another plant or the wind. LOL.
I just found and interesting article on them. It says Sevin and other insecticides causes bigger outbreaks of them. WHOA!!
"Spider mites frequently become a problem after application of insecticides. Such outbreaks are commonly a result of the insecticide killing off the natural enemies of the mites, but also occur when certain insecticides stimulate mite reproduction. For example, spider mites exposed to carbaryl (Sevin) in the laboratory have been shown to reproduce faster than untreated populations. Carbaryl, some organophosphates, and some pyrethroids apparently also favor spider mites by increasing the level of nitrogen in leaves. Insecticides applied during hot weather usually appear to have the greatest effect on mites, causing dramatic outbreaks within a few days.
If a treatment for mites is necessary, use selective materials, preferably insecticidal soap or insecticidal oil. Do not use soaps or oils on water-stressed plants or when temperatures exceed 90°F. "
http://cecalaveras.ucdavis.edu/mites.htm
mites mites mites and more mites
LOL...Carol... it's funny how one reaction will cause another system to act in another way.. an insecticide causeing a spur in reproduction... of the insect it was ment to kill Mother is convinced that round up for killing plants... is somehow a fertilizer to near by plants... the plants right near the ones that are sprayed with roundup... grow with a spurt of growth.. I don't ever use it... so I can't confirm this for her..
MY mites..moved last week from the morning glories..to a single , I thought , brug... but in spraying it and looking closely..I saw they had found a few others... got them real realy thiis outbreak and... we'll hit them all again real soon... and then for a third time.. I'd sure like to not bring any inside with me this year... Gordon
Well Gordon, join the club. I have been wondering if they somehow lay eggs in the soil? Or just on top of the soil? Is there a soil drench to run thru the plants before bringing them in? It seems to me that I used to use a bleach dilution to run thru them. I don't know why peroxide wouldn't work. But, I don't think that would get eggs. However, if the area you bring them into was pretty cool, maybe in the low 40s the eggs shouldn't hatch do you think?
Last year I used to spray with a peroxide solution whenever I saw anything on my plants. Don't know why I haven't this year. It seemed to help.
Jeanette
Jeanette,
According to all the information I've read, and it's been a lot, the eggs will still hatch at 40F, it just takes longer, maybe up to 20 days, therefore the population will be smaller than those kept at 72F.
Judy
Good golly, reading this thread is exhausting!! My plants are stressed from heat and lack of rain, so even if mine were crawling with bugs, now wouldn't be the time to treat them, I'm not even using fert. Are any of you having mites on your other plants?? I'm not a purist by any means, and I have done everything that you all are doing to rid myself of mites and other pests and I was never successful. So, I quit trying and the only difference I see is that my garden is better and I'm not killing myself and the good insects with the sprays and killers. It seems that there are just some brugs that are prone to have mites and other bugs, regardless of what you do or don't do. When I have one like that, I say 'bu-bye'. I don't wand or need plants that don't like it here. Gordon, I had no idea morning glory would get mites, mine don't have them, knock on wood, nor do my Moonflowers, gosh, I feel lucky! Last year, my hardy hibiscus, four plants, got mosaic ??, so I dug them up and moved them into a full sun spot and they are delightful, my hubby calls the big red one, the Queen of the Garden, it has bloomed all summer. A little dwarf, new, hardy hibiscus, apparently came with whitefly and I used insecticidal soap and they disappeared and none of the other plants were bothered. The one thing I did this year, I used hi-yield di-syston, at the beginning of the season...
This is a great overview of the Spider Mite http://www.entm.purdue.edu/fieldcropsipm/insects/soybeanspidermite.cfm
I've just asked TonyJr to post some additional information he has gathered
Judy
The Award For Excellence - Goes To SherryLike
This product can be used on houseplants even!!!! See the below and verify it yourself via the link below!
HI-YIELD DI-SYSTON SYSTEMIC INSECTICIDE GRANULES
Ornamental Plants (soil Treatment)
Aphids
Lace Bugs
Leafhoppers
Spider Mites
Thrips
Whiteflies
Ornamental Plants (containerized)
Aphids
Lace Bugs
Leafhoppers
Spider Mites
Thrips
Whiteflies
Ornamental Plants (houseplants)
Aphids
Lace Bugs
Leafhoppers
Spider Mites
Thrips
Whiteflies
Ornamental Plants (interior Plantscapes)
Aphids
Lace Bugs
Leafhoppers
Spider Mites
Thrips
Whiteflies
http://www.kellysolutions.com/ma/showpestsitecombo.asp?EPAID=7401%2D323&ProductName=HI%2DYIELD+DI%2DSYSTON+SYSTEMIC+INSECTICIDE+GRANULES
This message was edited Aug 28, 2006 4:12 PM
OK Judy, now where can you purchase this product?
As per request - stolen notes from all over
http://dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=1059
more info RE MITES:
Biology and life cycle: Many generations a year; the life cycle lasts only a few days. Adults hibernate in winter in debris or in bark.
Habitat: Many plants such as fruit trees, vegetables, ornamental plants, and house plants, especially stressed plants. Like dry climates. Spider mites like to overwinter in poke, Jerusalem oak, Jimson weed, and other weeds.
Feeding habits: Both nymphs and adults pierce plant cells and suck juice. Feed on fruit, foliage, and roots. Infested leaves turn silvery or yellow, then curl and are covered with a fine web.
Economic importance: Serious damage to food crops and ornamentals.
Natural control: Predatory spider mites, ladybugs, minute pirate bugs, thrips and lacewings, and lady beetles. Address the cause of the plant stress. Mites attack only sick plants.
Organic control: Spraying just about anything every three days for nine days will get rid of them. Garlic-pepper tea and seaweed mix is one of the best sprays. Citrus oil sprays are also effective.
Insight: Organic gardeners rarely have spider mite problems because of healthy soil, mulch, and adapted plants that have been planted properly. They are a problem only when soil is too wet or too dry.
I'm willing to try the Predatory spider mites !!
Garlic spray - 10 to 15 cloves in a pint of mineral oil . Crush garlic in press , soak in mineral oil for a minamuin of 24 hrs - 48 is better - strain , one tablespoon of oil in a quart of water and spray on trails . Can be mixed with soap and or Neem oil . not sure what happens if alcohol is added .
Cilanto / Coriander or Eucalyptus , tomato , mint , onion - leaves stems or pieces - mince / chop up - soak in mineral oil 2 days - strain - 1 tablespoon to a pint of water - dish soap or alcohol can be added but not both .
Lemon zest / peel - use putato peeler , put peels in a mayo jar , cover with rubbing alcohol for 2 days - strain - one tablespoon to a pint of water - dish soap can be added
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/2012.html
Option 2: Cultural Control - Quarantine and Inspection The twospotted spider mite is often introduced on infested bedding and house plants. When purchasing new plants, carefully inspect the lower leaf surface for any signs of mite activity. New house plants should be quarantined from other plants until you are sure that no mites are present.
Option 3: Biological Control - Predators There are numerous insects (lacewings and lady beetles) that prey on spider mites. However, the most commonly sold predators are other types of mites. Predatory mites (usually Phytoseiulus spp., Amblyseius spp. or Metaseiulus spp.) can be purchased and released onto infested plants. Be sure to check listings to determine which species is appropriate. Some species are host specific and each predator works better under different weather conditions. If predators are used, do not apply pesticides that will kill them.
Option 4: Chemical Control - "Soft Pesticides" Most spider mites can be controlled with insecticidal oils and soaps. The oils, both horticultural oil and dormant oil, can be used. Horticultural oils can be used on perennial and woody ornamentals during the summer at the 1 to 2 percent rate. Higher rates of horticultural oil (3 to 4 percent) or dormant oil are useful for killing mite eggs and dormant adults in the fall and spring. The insecticidal soaps are useful in the warm season. Remember that mites are very tiny and soaps and oils work by contact only. Therefore, thorough coverage of the plant is necessary for good control.
Option 5: Chemical Control - Miticides Spider mites are usually not killed by regular insecticides, so be sure to check the pesticide label to see if "miticide" is present. Pesticides claiming "for mite suppression" are usually weak miticides and will not perform well. There are few products available to the homeowner. Dicofol (=Kelthane) is registered for over-the-counter use but is difficult to find. Acephate (=Orthene), dimethoate (=Cygon), chlorpyrifos (=Dursban), diazinon, disulfoton (=Di-syston), and malathion have over-the-counter product labels but are considered weak miticides.
Avermectin (=Avid), bifenthrin (=Talstar), dienochlor (=Pentac), fenbutatin-oxide (=Vendex), fluvalinate (=Mavrik), oxamyl (=Vydate), oxydemeton-methyl (Metasystox-R), oxythioquinox (Morestan), and propargite (=Omite) are restricted use pesticides available only to licensed applicators.
TonyJr,
Thanks for posting your notes!!
I'm going to use the Hi-Yield Di-Syston to clean up these spider mites, then I have to figure out how to return to a well balanced natural environment. I think we first became unbalanced (lol lol) when the rat snakes eat too many of the tree frogs. Mama rat snake had a big birthing event two years ago. Last year we noticed the lower than normal number of tree frogs, etc. Then this long dry spell and extreme heat caused the natural enemies of the spider mite to die and the spider mites to flourish. Now I'm killing off all the beneficial insects with the poisons we've been spraying. Whew!!!
Judy
kareoke
re: where to buy Hi-Yield Di-Syston
Try your county co-op and/or those types of places where farmers would buy their supplies
Judy
OK Thanks.
Oops....called the Farmers Co-Op and was told in the state of TN, Hi-Yield Di-Syston is a restricted chemical and you have to have a present a restricted chemical use card. I was told you get card/permit through the Cnty Ag Agent and they thought the only requirement was watching a 4 hr video.
Judy
Ok, you guys, here is where I got my Hi Yield Di-syston. I researched ebay for this seller cause I could not find any locally. I had to pay shipping but with the high price of gas I felt it was worth it. I got a 5# jug.
hope
E-mail Address(es):
hglumis@comcast.net
Business Information:
Address:
to buy Disyston
Phone: (941)575-0335
Lots of gardening pals have mentioned that hi-yield di-syston is difficult to find; however, it is, apparently, a staple, with no restrictions, in Arky & MS. I get the best price at the co-op - the local nurseries carry it, but it costs about $3 more. Places like Lowes, Home Depot, etc, in my area, do not carry it. The first year I had brugs, I used it on all the brugs I planted except some rootings because I thought it might hurt them - well, I hurt them okay, they were the only ones that had problems. Since then, I've used it, liberally, on everything, occasionally a plant will slip by without it, as did my dwarf hardy hibiscus and it had whitefly.
Wow, Judy, I sincerely appreciate your compliment, thank you so very much!!! I wish I could take credit for the hi-yield, but it has been around forever - it came to my attention via my local gardening guru, a nursery owner. One day, I told him, my Camellia has aphid, mildew and mold. He said 'why do they have that'? I said, huh, that's why I'm here, lol??!! He said 'all you have to do is use hi-yield, di-syston, on every plant & you will never have those problems'. Last year when Rita blew in western flower thrips from OKLA, he told me to follow the treatment he suggested with hi-yield, or I'd have to fight thrips this year too. I did what he said, it worked and we have not seen a single thrip - his advice has paid me every time...
Jug, Jnette?? Is yours liquid?? I had no idea it came in liquid. Mine is granules, which I love, it is so easy...
No Sherry, it is not a liquid but it still comes in what I call a jug. What would you call it? It is like the jug that Bayers 2 in 1 comes in right? Isn't that a jug? Or is whiskey the only thing that comes in a jug? L:OL
BTW, I heard a wee rumor thatt they may be taking it off of the shelf so I would get it soon if you guys are going to. No matter where you get it.
Jeanette
BTW Sherry, my Pink Favorite doesn't look like it is going to bloom. It had about 50 buds on it at one time and they have been drying up and falling off slowly. They don't even grow. The plant looks the healthiest of any of my brugs. What in the world do you think is wrong?
Also, I have a brug that has kind of thick, dark green leaves that are hairy, and it has gotten a bud without Ying. I had an Arborea that I thought I lost. I had gotten it from Sue (can't think of her last name. think it starts with a P) she is with, Whoops, almost said the dreaded "sticky" word. Do you think that could be the Arborea? Sherry?
Jeanette
Judy i called our local farm bureau and got the same reply, said i could NOT buy it legaly
I'll bet you cana get it from Hope. The lady I gave the address for. She may not have gottten the word yet because she said she had plenty. Jeanette
Yup, Jnette, in Arky, jugs are for moonshine!! I call those things 'those plastic containers', but my original hi-yield came in a paper box. My guru will know if it's being taken off the market - if so, I will be stocking up too. Now, did I dream it, or did you say that you could not see any particular good it has done (I may have dreamed that). Well, I'll tell you this - I cannot tell, when I put it out, that it is working. It is something I can see over time, not the minute it hits the ground. For that reason, when I first started using it, I wasn't impressed one bit. It isn't like a spray or drench, I can usually tell immediately when they work. And, I'm an instant gratification girl, so I had to warm up to the hi-yield, and I used other stuff, sprays, powder, etc, with it, just so I could see something happen. Like with whitefly - I put out the granules and I still see the whitefly. So, I spray with insecticidal soap and they die immediately. Hi-yield is a long termed remedy......
Well, I have used the Rose Care, which has Di-Syston in it for years and swear by it. I just got the Hi-Yield at the end of last year.
I wrote to Hope and asked her to send me some so we'll see. Unless someone writes and tells her not to send it.
Jeanette
Thanks for info-name of other stuff - Hi-Yield Di-Syston - going to read about now on google , then dogpile.com - then maybe ebay .
cheapest place I found
http://www.rbseed.com/.docs/record_id/10748/pg/10102
Tony, that is a super price. If I hadn't already bought some from Hope I would order a couple from them. Sounds like if you want to use it you better order soon.
Jeanette
Tony, I just wrote and asked them how much was in it? I thought mine was 5# but it is 3 1/2#. For some reason the container (Sherry, that is the word I should have used, not jug LOL) in their picture looks smaller. Will be interesting. They are in Oregon so maybe they will answer today. And you are in California so the shipping shouldn't be that much. Good!
I agree that Tony's price is fantastic, but the shipping, to me, is $9.92. I can buy it at the local co-op, big 'container', for $10.
How big Sherry? Are you sure it isn't a jug??? LOL Good price!
Thanks Jeanette for the heads up on possible problems with Hi-yield di-syston systemic. I just went looking and its registration was cancelled in February so it is illegal to sell it anymore. I wish I knew why the company withdrew its registration, it could even be for a benign reason.
But more importantly, I found that PAN classified Disulfoton 2%as a PAN Bad Actor, which then makes it either Extremely Toxic or Highly Toxic!! Well shoot! I won't be using it around here now. Shoot again. I so hate mites but they are not worth dying over.
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00740100323&DIST_NR=007401#Registration
Kell, you lost me on your last paragraph and my computer won't bring up the link. But here is an excerpt from Judy's piece of Ohio State where it says it is a weak miticide. The very last one.
Option 5: Chemical Control - Miticides Spider mites are usually not killed by regular insecticides, so be sure to check the pesticide label to see if "miticide" is present. Pesticides claiming "for mite suppression" are usually weak miticides and will not perform well. There are few products available to the homeowner. Dicofol (=Kelthane) is registered for over-the-counter use but is difficult to find. Acephate (=Orthene), dimethoate (=Cygon), chlorpyrifos (=Dursban), diazinon, disulfoton (=Di-syston), and malathion have over-the-counter product labels but are considered weak miticides.
So, now I am REALLY confused. Anyway, I have another container being sent to me. Hope apparently has not gotten the word.
Jeanette
Well, I wrote to Hope and asked her to cancel my order if she hadn't already sent it. They were trying to get as much done as they could before the storm hit so I have a feeling she already sent it. If so, I will have to try to find a place to get rid of it. Our landfill is so small I am sure they don't have a way . They may have a contract with Spokane to take that stuff.
Too bad. I really liked it. And I only used it in pots. If I had a way to get rid of the soil I had used it in without contaminating the ground water. . . . . . . .
Actually, I am glad I haven't used it steady since we do have a well.
Jeanette
Jeanette, you posted "BTW, I heard a wee rumor thatt they may be taking it off of the shelf so I would get it soon if you guys are going to. No matter where you get it."
That made me curious and very concerned as to why that would be true for I am not big on using poisons in my yard though lately you sure wouldn't know it because of these darn buggy brug plants. So anyway, I did a google serach on it and found it is already illegal to sell Hi-yield di-syston systemic but more importantly I found out the 2% is highly toxic. So forget that stuff.
Here is the web address of the info for you to copy and paste. I am deleting the h ttp://www part of the address so the address won't turn into a link you can't access again. If you want to read all about it for yourself, just make sure you add the h ttp://www to the front of this but first delete the space after the h (Dave's wants to make it a link to nowhere):
.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00740100323&DIST_NR=007401#Registration
Link:
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Product.jsp?REG_NR=00740100323&DIST_NR=007401#Registration
Anyway, I didn't read Judy's post but I guess that makes this stuff mute anyway as a miticide. Good. It sounds too toxic to me.
This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 11:14 PM
Oh too bad, Jeanette, I hope you do not get stuck with it if you have decided not to use it, I knew there was a reason I love Neem Oil!
Kell, I wonder about the Bayer and the rest that have this stuff in them? Not only the 2 in 1, but the Bonide has it also. Just not the 2%. So, is what the link you have saying that the rest is ok, but the 2% is not? Doesn't make sense.
How can we use the Bayer Rose Care, 2 in 1 in the winter when it has fertilizer also? I tried the Bonide and it just wasn't strong enough. Maybe if we use double the amount? That wouldn't make it 2% would it?
With the information that Ohio State said about it being weak, it does make you wonder if, as you said, the mfg. cancelled it for a benign reason. I am sure they do that too. Maybe they weren't selling enough to make an issue of it?
Jeanette
Jnette
Ione, WA
Zone 5a
Aug 30, 2006
12:50 AM
What you referenced was TonyJr's posting not mine!!
Judy
I tried to do a search for the reason, Jeanette and couldn't find one. But when I read the toxicity report it didn't matter anymore, I won't use it. It will freak me out too much. I have cats that go outside and I am such a dufus, I guarantee you that now that I know it is so toxic, I would get it all over me.
I did go to the Bayer site to see if the Bayer 2 in 1 was still listed and it is, so I have no clue if the problem is the strength. I did find where the 15% registration was also canceled.
The site does say the company cancelled its registration itself so the EPA didn't take the initiative to pull it from the market.
There generic reasons it gives are :
"There are several possible reasons a product registration might be cancelled:
The U.S. EPA determined the product to be unsafe to use because of its toxicity and banned all further uses of the product, or
The manufacturer voluntarily withdrew the product from active registration. This may occur because:
The manufacturer has registered a "new and improved" product for similar uses and cancels the registration of the old one.
There are potential problems with toxicity or environmental hazards and it seems likely the U.S. EPA will not approve further use. To cut losses and time invested in attempting to register the product, voluntary withdrawal is often the most cost-effective option.
The manufacturer is not making enough profit off of the product to maintain the registration"
I am not the pesticide police though and if anyone wants to use it, it is not my business. I think people need to decide for themselves, every one can decide what is right for their own lives. And from what I read it is illegal to sell it, not use it.
PS
The link only addresses the 2%. It is a PAN product report only on that 1 product. No mention of any others.
Oh my my my. Pet owners beware. Look what I found.
Thursday, June 29, 2006
The pesticides most dangerous for your pets
According to the ASPCA, "The most dangerous forms of pesticides include: snail bait containing metaldehyde, fly bait containing methomyl, systemic insecticides containing disyston or disulfoton, zinc phosphide containing mole or gopher bait and most forms of rat poisons
http://www.rgj.com/blogs/mostlydogs/2006/06/pesticides-most-dangerous-for-your.html
I keep finding more things out about this stuff. It is scary!
On this chart it is labeled as one of the
"Most Dangerous" *Disulfoton (Di-Syston) (OP)
http://ohioline.osu.edu/b745/b745_3.html
OK my last addition, LOL. Time for bed. But this one really scared me. It is talking about the 15% strength not the 2% that we are talking about but still, it shows this stuff is serious business.
http://www.forestrycenter.org/headlines.cfm?RefID=74564
"One pesticide commonly used, Di-syston 15-G, is so dangerous that a minute amount can harm and even kill farm workers who, for want of time, seldom wear protective clothing."
This message was edited Aug 29, 2006 11:49 PM
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Insiders say the reason many of the strong pesticides are/were being pulled from the market is because "some people were using them in bait to kill coyotes and other unwanted animals".
Jump back, some people are such fools.
Hope this helps to clear up matters.
Judy
This message was edited Aug 30, 2006 1:51 AM
Too many add ons to my last post so let me start a new post....... and I lied........ this will be last one. But how scary is this info? Again it is talking about the 15% strength not the 2% strength, but it is the same chemical in Hi-yield Di-syston systemic whichis Disulfoton.
Daily News Archive
From November 18, 2005
Christmas Tree Farm Workers At High Risk For Pesticide Poisoning
(Beyond Pesticides, November 18, 2005) Christmas tree farms use a variety of toxic pesticides, including Di-syston, a pesticide that has been laregely discontinued due to its toxicity. The people at the highest risk of exposure are the farm workers, the majority of whom are Latino immigrants. The two biggest producers of Christmas trees in the United States are Oregon and North Carolina. The sales in North Carolina alone total more than $100 million.
Farm workers on the tree farms are exposed to an array of dangerous pesticides that range from glyphosate (the active ingredient in Roundup) to a variety of organophosphates. One of the most dangerous pesticides used is Di-Syston 15-G, an organophosphate that can cause convulsions, dizziness, sweating, labored breathing, nausea, and unconsciousness, among other things. Bayer CropSciences voluntarily discontinued Di-Syston last year, yet it is still legal to use on Fraser firs in North Carolina and coffee In Puerto Rico. The pesticide is a powder that is traditionally applied with a bucket and measuring spoon. This method was so dangerous that the EPA threatened to ban Di-Syston. North Carolina Christmas tree growers worked hard to develop a method that used a closed system to distribute the dust and the EPA dropped the threat.
http://www.beyondpesticides.org/news/daily_news_archive/2005/11_18_05.htm
Oh Lord the 15% was a dust, no wonder they took it off the market.
This message was edited Aug 30, 2006 8:20 AM
I wrote to Hope and told her not to send my order. She wrote back and said this stuff she sells is not the one that was pulled. She said that was an 8%. Or, some such thing and I am such a dufus when it comes to science that I could have it all wrong. But, she did say she would never sell anything illegal and also that her vendor is very careful about that.
I also looked at the company in Oregon that Tony referenced and I decided to tell Hope to go ahead and send my order. If, it ends up the bad stuff I will get rid of it.
She told me that she had Floramite on ebay and someone told ebay they didn't like it so ebay made her take it off. Then wrote to her and told her she could put it on. She never got back to it but she didn't tell me how much she was selling it for.
I guess everyone has to do what is right for themselves. I just use mine in pots so if I get rid of the soil in a place that will not hurt my well water (and I don't use enough to hurt it anyway) I am going to probably use it.