grumbling U.S. college student

For those of you who are a college student or know one, be fair warned. Our great president promised tax refunds to "all working citizens". I hate to do this, but he lied.

I worked nearly 5 jobs during the year 2000, both on my undergraduate campus, at my graduate institution, and three jobs off campus at actual businesses.

However, because my parents claimed me as a dependant (and for other crummie reasons), I won't see any of the refund checks that many Americans will enjoy.

Just wanted to grumble a bit. GRRRRRRRR...

Pouting in her houseplants,
Jennifer

Jennifer,

Our great President Bush did not promise tax refunds to "all working citizens". I searched and searched, but could not find any reference to him saying this. Maybe somebody else said it, or President Bush said something else.

Also - if his opponent had been elected, nobody would be getting anything, and even more of our hard earned money would be siezed from us.

Remember that the model for this refund business was not President Bush's original plan. His original plan was to give money back to taxpayers in accordance with the amount that they have paid. The refund system was suggested by his opponents, the Democrats, led by Tom Daschel. So, you can thank Daschel for the refund that your parents are getting and that you are not getting.

Dave

I am not looking for a political argument here. I just wanted to let others without college students as children know that even tho' the general public might think a great majority of the country is getting a refund, I, along with other college students, am not.

Sorry Dave, once again, I am not looking to debate Rep vs Dem here. Just pointing out a fact.

Jennifer, I'm not going to indicate pro or con about the tax refund but my dd also found out this week that she will not share in the tax refund. However, I did laugh at the first sentence of the letter she received: "We are pleased to inform you that the United States Congress pased and President George W Bush signed into the law the Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconcilliation Act of 2001, which provides long term tax relief for all Americans who pay income taxes........" (the letter then goes on to say that she will not receive tax relief because she was claimed as a dependent) She also worked three jobs last year and paid income tax on the income she received from her cattle. So you receive her sympathies also.

I really do not understand what the criteria for the rebates are. We will be getting ours. What I don't understand is why the delay in changing the marriage penalty....which just happens to have cost us about the same amount as what the refund will be.

Thanks NJ. Your Dd and I can share in the "pout fest". :)

"all Americans who pay income taxes". Bleh!

:)
Jennifer

Hi AngelSong,

Definitely a misunderstanding... I certainly didn't want to make a this vs. that argument.

The trend in DG's political threads seems to be pro-liberal and anti-conservative, so I figure I'd just correct the errors that I saw and present a differing viewpoint from what's normally seen here.

Best and Smiling! :-)

Dave

No argument here Dave! Just some of that great open discussion we all love so much!

I think the key part of the letters opening statement is the wording 'Long Term'. According to the plan a lot of the Tax relief is scheduled years down the road IF the budget allows....Personally I do not mind paying taxes but would sure love to see the money used for things like health care for ALL, better schools, affordable housing and things like that which we all benifit from.

Bush had no business giving any money back whatsoever. How can you have a surplus when the Social security fund is almost bankrupt. If Bush had any brains he would have taken a large part of the so-called surplus and put it into social security.

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The University I'm at is putting me through school. Nobody makes school payments right now. I'm on scholarship for graduate school. My undergraduate education is backed up in loans on deferrment until I'm done in grad school - then the loans will come due.

Yeah, they both work. That can be helpful, but also hurtful when it comes to things like income taxes.

As for "long term", I sure hope so. As of yet, I haven't seen anything. There was also word out there that working folk would see an increase in "take home pay" as a result of taxes decreasing, starting in July. I didn't see that, either.

Drat! I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's hard. The school barely covers rent, utilities, and groceries....makes plant shopping difficult!!

I know what it is!! *sarcastic grin*.... They're trying to break my houseplant habit!! :) That's what it is! If they keep taxing me, I won't be able to get new and interesting plants... *giggle*.. yea, that's it!! :) :) :) :)

*giggle*,
Jennifer

Try making a living in " THE LAND OF WHAT ELSE CAN WE TAX "!The tax system in this country is a joke consider your self lucky. Still being taxed to death and not smileing here in CANADA.
Jack

It difinitely states that if someone else can claim you as a dependent, you are ineligible for a refund.

Jerrie
=o}

eyes,
and just because it says so doesn't mean I have to like it. :)

I just KNOW I shouldnt get involved in this but, to someone from outside the US, it's a familiar story. The notion that George W. (hail to the Chief) can be relied upon to make good election promises without the necessary mandate from the people (less than 50% of the popular vote and some questionable Florida votes - thanks to Ged), plus immenent loss of the Senate, is laughable. About as cute as our man Blair (just 25% of the electorate struggled to the polls to vote for the man !!) so dont put your savings on a bet they will deliver.

Jennifer, I wish you well for the future.

Here endeth the party political broadcast

El Tel

LOL El Tel! When it comes to politics and Taxes I wonder if any citizen in any nation is ever really satisfied! Being only human I tend to see "whats in it for me" and if the answer is favorable I am content. But the other folks out there may not be thrilled with it because it was not there for them....No form of government is perfect and no amount of taxation is acceptable when it comes out of MY POCKET! I think the only FAIR way would be for everyone else to give me MY WAY!

In our system in todays world no politician can get everything done he promises in his campaigning....But I will always admire the politician who at least TRIES!

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Oh Zany - you are so right, most politicians are trying !!!

LOL

El Tel

Politicians (Republican or Democratic) are not beholding to the people that elect them...are you sure we elect them? They are only satisfying the demands of the people that finance their campaigns. The VERY RICH AND POWERFUL. I think anyone that believes otherwise is naive. I think we must put our faith and trust in God only and do what your heart tells you is right. You may get into a lot of trouble, but as Lisa says in her name "God sees you always".
I would also like to say something about the labels of "liberal" and "conservative". I would most definitely be labeled a liberal, but I've always wondered why. I preach conservation and moderation. I try to do it politely and reasonably. I try to be informed about it. And I try to see the other side and argue it around in my head awhile. I also try to have the courage to speak the truth and act upon my sincerest feelings. I try to follow the example of Christ, Gandhi, King, and others, although I will never have that degree of courage or conviction. And yet, still I am considered radical. Go figure.

the generosity of any govenment is questionable, since when have they ever given you anything back that they havent taken double somewhere else, you are still paying for it all, you just dont see it for a long time if at all, they give you a tax cut of 10% other taxes increase 25%, just that they go up in little ammounts of 2% here 5% there, but in the end they trick you into thinking you had a cut or refund, but they get it all back with interest.

Hey folks, it is not so BAD. I worked for years, during college and grad school , then 20+ years as a therapist before I became disabled. I just got notified that I am getting a refund--will take you all out for coffee--at a cheap place-NO mocha lattes- no refills--cause $26. is not going very far. Maybe I will go out to the farm gardens instead, my neighbors got a clump or either Little Grapette or Raspberry Pixie--with that lady's garden I can get some nice plants; and the coffee would have had to be REAL cheap.lol

AngelSong... I'm only guessing and I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but it must have been in the best interest of you and your family to file the way you did. Most people consider all filing options before they send off their tax returns. If it worked to your benefit then, I would accept the gain you and your family received by your filing as a dependent, and just ask your parents to share part of the refund check with you.

Although I would never want to live anywhere else, I also find our elections nowadays as selecting the least undesirable. Money plays too important of a role. Even our congressmen, with not that big of an area to canvas, will not take the time to visit folks unless you are a financial contributor or live in an area that they want to swing the vote. I do get to see them sling mud on tv, but now it is expected and I am immune to it because it is has become acceptable political behavior.

Presenting another view point is fine, but please be sure that the information is accurate. Several points here:

1. "If his (Bush's) opponent had been elected"--well, he was. Bush was not elected, but *selected* by the conservative Supreme Court.

2. A claim was made that we wouldn't be getting anything back with Gore--incorrect again. Gore promised *targeted* tax cuts for lower income folks, college tuition, families with children, first mortgages, and older folks with no health care. Many of those groups are undoubtedly represented here. And when they are benefitted, we *all* win.

3. Yes, Bush's plan was to give back taxes based on income--exactly why it was/is a flawed program. Very Republican, very trickle-down, very wrong. The Democrats (thankfully--we appreciate Mr. Jeffords! :)) turned a horrible program into something a little more fair.

Thanks to this forum we have a way to express opinions and correct errors.

1. Bush was elected, and thank goodness for the Supreme Court who finally stopped the runaway gore from trying to steal the election with his mafia crew of election stealing thieves before our country fell into a chasm.

it's so fun to continue to see the liberal groups down in Florida, trying to continue to count the ballots, trying to find gore a winner so they can discredit Bush. They keep counting and counting, and Bush keeps winning and winning.

Gore may have received more actual votes nationwide, but this is a republic. Under our constitution, that means that Bush was rightfully elected. that's just the way it is in the United States, and has been that way all along. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other countries where democracy is supreme. not here.

2. Yeah gore would have given tax "cuts" to those that didn't even pay taxes in the first place, taking more money from the tax-"payers" and giving it to the free-loading tax-"takers". that's the liberal way. It's the party of victims, freeloaders, and sinners.

3. your last sentence was priceless... "something more fair". It just screams of that whining liberal tone... "it's just not fair!! I want my share of the money, too!! It's NOT FAIR!! Take more money from those rich people and give it to me - I deserve it more. they are evil because they are rich. Let's spread the wealth around a little because I deserve that money just as much as they do."

If you like communism so much, go move to a communist country, instead of trying to drag the conservative America into a socialist/communist country.

*giggle*
This turned into a big political discussion! hahahahaha.. exactly what I wrote I wasn't intending... haa haa....

Very entertaining... I am not asking for communism, I'm not asking for wealth to be shared between everybody. I don't hate rich people because they'll get more than me. If this education pans out to be all I'm working towards, I'll be one of those rich folk some day.

My *giggle* point was, I'm throwing a childlike temper tantrum because I wanted to pay for my half of my mini vacation to Atlanta and hoped to pay for school books next term without credit.

So .... WAAAAHHHHH!!!! I want some part of MY income tax given back to me! Not some part of some rich guy's income tax. MY Part! The part I worked insane hours to earn in the year 2000.


Wooo!! My temper tantrum continues. :)

*giggle*
Jennifer

Jennifer, well my dd threw such a big fit that I took her shopping on Saturday. (By the way, that's the way I took your posts - just having some fun!!) You just keep studying away - I may need your tax $$$ to support me in my old age. (That's what dh and I keep telling our dd.)

It's interesting that the concept of "giving to those less fortunate than ourselves" is *good Christian behaviour* if instigated by a conservative but suddenly becomes *communism* and *free-loading* if instigated by a liberal. Personally, I'd rather the countryhave a healthy economy/treasury than get a measely few hundred bucks back.

AngelSong--the school scholarship you got, now matter how small the amount, comes partially from the gov't., that is, you *did* get a piece of the pie whether you realize it or not. All of us paid into it regardlesss of if we have children. Individually, this doesn't seem fair, but as a whole, it evens out.

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Well, speaking as an avowed conservative and Christian, I give as I've been prospered to my church and to charities that I feel will use my money to help better the lives of those who can't help themselves.

On the other hand, having the government forcibly take my money (via taxes) and make decisions as to how it's spent isn't the same thing at all. There are many programs the government sponsors that I would never donate to willingly - some because they are frivolous and wasteful, others because they run in direct contradiction to my beliefs.

So IMHO, conservative opposition to taxes isn't hyopcrisy or sour grapes (which is what I inferred from the above comments) it's indignation from the mandatory collection and redistribution of what taxpayers have earned to programs and causes we don't wish to support.

Hehehehe this brings back the memories, the gore/bush race was all we got on our tv here for weeks, it was a tight finnish, half and half, and its still that way, even after a winner was forced on you, either one was bad for half of you, we had enough of it the same as most of you, we were overjoyed when one of them was picked, cos it wasa over for us.
Here it was different this election, hardly anyone botherd to go and vote, cos we didnt want any of them lol, so ours got in by default, de fault of those who didnt vote.

go_vols

Thank you for getting my point.

Even if there is some gov't funding in the well earned assitantship I've earned in grad school, so what?! I was under the impression tax rebates came in the form of checks,, not in the form of "here's the education you worked your tail off for.. have a nice day, and be sure to say thank you to the feds." If I'd known I was going to get screwed, I wouldn't have worked so hard for four years.....

feeling like she has to constantly defend her temper tantrum,
Jennifer


This message was edited Monday, Jul 23rd 1:36 PM

Angelsong, you have my sympathies...up to a point - I chose to get married early in life, so I stopped being dependent on my parents long before I finished college. I'm assuming if your parents claim you as a dependent on their tax return, you're somewhat dependent on them financially as well. If that's not the case, you and your parents should probably talk to a tax adviser before 4/15/02 rolls around.

As for me, after our oldest son was born, I went back to school, and my DH (underscore the "dear" on that one for sure!) worked to support us, pay for daycare and all my tuition expenses. I worked part-time my first two years to help offset some of these expenses. A scholarship helped defray the cost of the next two years' tuition at a private college (it was that or commute 100 miles to the nearest state school.)

Like many students, when I graduated we had lots of student loans and hefty credit card bills. I went to work and - because of my education - I received several promotions that afforded us the opportunity to accelerate our student loan payments, and we paid off everything in five years. Along the way, the marriage penalty ate us alive. Not to mention we lived in a state that had an income tax, sales tax on everything including food, hefty car tags, toll roads, property tax and personal property tax.

It just makes me wonder how on earth the citizens of this country have let ourselves get into the situation we are in, where those above the poverty level seem to consider it the norm that the government is going to take at least 60-70% of our income via taxes, and that's okay with us?

As I said earlier, I will willingly give of all the blessings I have received in life, but I am NOT happy to let the government decide how much (more) of my money they should get, and who/what they should give it to. And for the record, yes we pay our taxes fair and square every year. Just don't ask me to vote for somebody who wants an even bigger chunk of what we've worked for.

Lantana & Karma : You both ROCK in my eyes ; politics = nothing more than corruption AND mean absolutely diddly squat in the end . The political systems OF ALL countries are merely out for short term gains with little long term , substainable , environmentally friendly , economic thinking involved . Throw those money grubbing , Wall Street butt kissing , Lawyers out and put some real people with integrity back in government . We all need grass roots leaders , not palm greasing lawyers filling their pockets on the side , at the expense of the average tax paying citizen .
Change what you can by never letting up the presurre on your elected representatives . Rock On !!

Angelsong--I did a lot of re-thinking about what I said and I think you were right to be upset. If this is supposed to be a "tax relief", anyone who paid tax, regardless of what your circumstance, should get money back. Period, end of discussion. Or else it should be called something else (read: you must be in the voting category if you qualify for a refund, here's a bribe, vote for me in 2004). And who else needs it more than struggling students, who are the future of our nation? I graduated from college a coupla years ago and I can understand how much $300 bucks means to me then as opposed to now. So there's no need to feel you have to defend your statement--you have a right to be angry about it.

Maybe my liberal eyes are failing me, but did this root person call Democrats "victims, freeloaders, and sinners" then imply that we love Communism???

This is too good/bad. I must print out his/her response to use in my political communication seminar in the fall. It will provide a valuable template for how not to conduct political discussions. BTW, my liberal family values will not allow me to insult people like that.

I do appreciate the other folks (agreeing or disagreeing with me) who can talk about issues and not insult people. Stimulating and free discussion is what this country is all about and we *can* talk about politics civily--at least some of us.

"RE-ELECT GORE IN 2004"

I love the debate. There will always be one.

If you look at the house bill. It was voted in by people from both parties, not just one.

Refund means that you paid something and they are giving you a portion back. The house (tax) bill stated that the "taxable income" (meaning the income taxed after deductions i.e. standard deduction or Form A and your other deductions were taken) would be reduced from 15% taxable income to 10% up to $12,000 (5% of 12,000 = $600). That is where the $600 came from. Now if you look on your 1040 or tax form. Find the line that states "taxable income". If you had 0 on that line you do not get a "refund" because you did not pay anything. If your taxable income was between $2 and $12,000. Figure 5% and that should be what your "refund" is.

To those who did have a taxable income. Do not feel BAD or ANGRY that the goverment didn't take 10% of your income and gave others back 5% and kept 10%.

The people looking to get back more money then they have paid in are not looking for a "refund", but a tax credit just like the child tax credit (or other tax credits /deductions)that is going up from $500 per child to $1,000 per child.

AngelSong I agree with the others have said. Seek tax advice. If your parents claimed you as a dependant they should be supporting you somewhat. Especially since they can claim you as a dependant and on the child tax credit equaling $3,100.

Before any of us can claim the other side is wrong. I think you and me need to be informed. Both sides are usally wrong and the right is some place in the middle. Read what the representives, you voted in, are voting for! Be informed!

And to defend my voting habits.....

I emailed senators and representatives in my state expressing my displeasure with this outcome. Of course, they're too busy planning their next "big break" to respond. I'm not horribly surprised.

I completely support a tax refund bill. I support government that supports it, whomever that may be. I don't vote down party lines. I find men or women that support things I believe in, and vote accordingly. Whether they follow those beliefs in D.C. or not is out of my hands. When things go directions I don't understand, I email kindly like a good little American, and move on.

I still stand on my opinion that this whole issue is bigger than my parents claiming me as a dependant. I worked five jobs last year, guys. five! Not just one for a few months, but five over the year, part time here, part time there, just so I'd have enough money to pay for books, groceries, rent, etc, etc.

I've already "done my time" as a student. Now, on assitantship, I live meagerly, and praise God that I'm not stuck with every bill buried in a loan. Not getting my portion still leaves me disgusted (along with all other college students, I'm sure) that I didn't get back what I put into it.

Nebraska_J - I will gladly give my portion for Social Security and likewise, so folks like you and my parents can eventually enjoy retiring and relaxing. I want to do it someday, too. :)

Hey I love a good debate too! (DH says I was born to argue.) As a "sometimes I vote Democrat and sometimes I vote Republican", I too am a little offended at being called a sinner. But then I kind of remember being told in church that we are all sinners. My two cents about this whole tax issue. Our politicians make promises but then they have to listen to those in their districts who do not want to give up the "tax supports" and the "tax paid fors". An an example - I live near Lincoln, Nebraska. People who live in that town think the traffic is terrible. (I doubt those people have traveled in cities where there's real traffic) Anyway, the city planners think they should plan a by pass so traffic can avoid the city to get to Interstate 80. Many of the citizens are saying yeah go for it (and I'm sure many are grumbling how high taxes are, ready to spend the rebate, etc). That by pass will cost millions, cut through hundreds of acres of farm ground and farm homesteads (of course, it won't cut through any golf courses) to cut off 5 minutes off a drive across Lincoln. So getting back to my point, I am one that complains about taxes but not sure what I want to give up. (And I also come from a state who elected a Congressman who is not a lawyer but a former college champion football coach - go figure!) Oh did my dd get a rude awakening this summer when she worked a bunch of overtime and realized Uncle Sam took a good portion of that check. That is when we joked with her about supporting our future.

Thanks Chooch! Support is hard to find down here in Texas. By the way, if I ever have to leave the country and need a place to stay in Canada, well, how about it? Do you offer asylum to political refugees still? Just joking of course. I'm going to Mexico and points south where U.S. political policies don't mean anything to anybody (that's anything that is). Well, there I go again...I must stop posting to this thread...just that old Quaker gene in me that has to stand up and speak when the Spirit moves me. Peace and prosperity to all...what's so wrong with that? I believe Jesus encouraged it.

Fun Fun Fun!! :-) I'm enjoying the differing viewpoints, thanks. Most are being very civil and intelligent in their discussions.