Request for some feedback on a classifieds ads forum

Can we get a Closed feature for when the items are sold?

I think it might be worth a trial but I don't see how it would be a big benefit to all the members.

If I had 3 toenail bushes for sale who is going to pay for the phyto cert or horrendous post and packing bill for the Majolica tea set and then suddenly the feedback system becomes almost as useless as eBays? OK seeds isn't such a big problem to send to the US now if the recipient has the paperwork but as far as I can see members outside of the US are going to be very limited in how they can use this feature.

I like the idea and am watching these discussions to see how it goes.

Question for Dave, Terry: Would you be allowed to run an ad directing people over to a website? This would be without listing specific items or pricing for sale. Kinda like Smith & Jones Ford: "the lot is full, c'mon down and buy a car".

If the ad is allowed as above, I would certainly like to see it. It will definately fulfill the urge/need to talk about our "wares" in prohibited forums. As an advertising forum, I can see running an ad for the specified time limit for the "website" and then maybe an ad for fall/spring specials, etc. Also, doing it here, we would be doing business with someone we know and trust (Dave and admin) and having the benefit of a captive target market.

Generally if the ad is run for a short term, I can't see why a "closed" would be necessary.

These are just my thoughts.

Molly
:^)))

Baa, you may be right. On the other hand, if there are enough ads from sellers within the EU, Canada, UK, Australia, etc. and they create their own virtual marketplace to sell within their own borders, I suspect Dave would create a way to help them accomplish that.

Molly, my guess is that we'll let vendors use it to advertise their own site - it would be especially nice (IMHO) if you want to feature a particular product or group of products, and then include a hyperlink to your site.

I'm against it. The forums will get plugged up with people indirectly referring to these "classifieds".

Worse, what's going to happen when a purchase "goes south", like a ton of co-ops did?

I say, if you want to make more money from this website organization, raise the subscription fees. Don't "dBay".

Would you have this bulletin board forum subdivided into categories?

Molly

At present there aren't really enough members to do that and it's not encouraging to potential international members to see features they can't really utilise well when they join. Yes in the future there could be enough internationals to warrent extra features like that but in the mean time how many potential members are being lost?

It's hard to imagine when you first join such a big site like DG is now to see how you could have an effect nor is the international presence here really very visible at a quick glance. I recently had correspondance with someone I know who had thought about joining DG and although they were aware there was an international membership here they felt put off by it seeming the few international members had to to fit in a US site. I'd not really looked at DG in that light before because when I joined there was a bouncing UK forum and the international membership was quite active, the whole membership numbered something in the region of between 2-3,000 then though.

There is actually very little in the way of international community here, I think I counted around 12,000 international members, a mere drop in the ocean compared to the US membership of course. Looking at Australia (over 1,800 members) and the UK (just over 3000), the two biggest membership counts outside of the US, it's a wonder that there are only 27 Australian subscribers and 55 UK subscribers. I suspect many of the current international subscribers have joined to utilise just a part of DG, we don't see many of the international members in the forums and yet the International Uber Gardeners number almost 1 third of the total number.

We're not all skinflints LOL so perhaps the potential DG has isn't being realised for international members. While that is possibly another subject I do think features like this that are widely wanted and/or needed, could be construed as being yet another off putting thing for non-US members.

I might be wrong but I didn't think it was necessarily an opportunity to make money so much as it was an inexpensive and fun outlet to sell stuff. I was thinking of it more of a "Garage Sale", "Yard Sale", clean out the closet, have too much of something kind of forum. I also thought there would be a set price and not any type of 'auction' features to it. I posted the Dbay remark as a joke and honestly I still think it's funny but definately not what I'd like to see the forum called. I was thinking more along the lines of "block sale" or something to do with recycling, etc.

I do think I might feel more comfortable is it was subscribers only but I think a lot of us are lost in our ill placed thoughts of security relying on the fact that someone is a subscriber.

MsCritterkeeper, you had some questions....

Currently we have around 60 forums accessible to ALL registered members - not just subscribers. This forum would work just as those do - you must be a registered member to place an ad and/or to be able to click on a member's username and send them a message. Non-registered visitors could see the ads, but they couldn't contact the seller or post an ad of their own until they register.


That's a question for Dave, but my hunch is "I don't think so." Since the "ads" would not be a full-blown thread (i.e., others can only view - not post to it), they aren't likely to generate a tremendous volume of activity, like co-op threads sometimes do.


I don't think anyone has the answer to that unless/until we try it. Who knows how many current DG subscribers will advertise? Who knows if it will attract outsiders to post an ad?

Angelsong....thanks for your input. One point of clarification - I don't see this as a big money-maker. The nominal ad fees would hopefully prevent spam-type messages from clogging the system, as they sometimes do with free bulletin boards like craig's list and freecycle.)

Molly - I don't know. If this idea takes off and there are so many ads it's hard to wade through them, I could see we might need to create categories/subcategories based on location, type of item, etc. At this point, I *think* the ads would be presented in reverse-chronological order, just as forum posts are. Since no new posts are permitted, there wouldn't be any "bumping".

Thank you for those numbers Baa! I never really looked up the cold, hard facts. I know I do not see a huge amount of people here outside of the US but I also thought they might be playing on other forums. It's too hard to get to all of them these days. I can see your point.

LOL I sometimes feel I'm a lone voice yelling in the wind when I try and bring up international membership subjects. Perhaps it is just my perception and I don't know where DG is heading or wants to be but on ratio we internationals dwindle in numbers every year and in doing so either have to wriggle very hard to get noticed or just allow ourselves to continue to fall by the wayside.

I just think it's a great pity that we have so much here and yet such a seemingly closed community that we're blocking out some really valuable members without realising it.

I like the idea...and in some form, I figure it could be useful and profitable to folks.

I'm like Michelle in thinking...oh, great...I can get rid of xxxx..but there are other things that come to mind too...

I know a member who sells lovely homemade jams and jellies who could use such a feature...and others who are adept at certian arts and crafts. This could be a great outlet for their talents.

I doubt very seriously that the boards will fill up with veiled allusions to things for sale...any more than they are now. The service will get used, but DG won't turn into one huge yard sale.

I like the idea of having categories somehow...the used Mantis tiller shouldn't be advertised in the same column as outgrown Barbie Dolls.

The service should be just like any classified ad list. The publisher has no liability as to the outcome of any transaction..other than the goods are legal to sell. You don't get mad at the newspaper if the 94 Chevy you bought blows a headgasket the next day.

It will take some tweaking, but I'm on board...don't know how much I'd actually use it...butI think it's a nice feature if handled right.

Baa, maybe you and I have different import rules about plants and seeds. I don't have any trouble of importing seeds, just keep away from Prunus, grasses and veggieseeds and those on the CITES list(endangered species) No phyto or paperwork needed. Only the Latin name on the separate seed bags IF they open and check.

Import of plants is ONLY available for companies with phyto etc.

I don't post in the EU forum because I don't want to exclude me at ANY point but to be a part of DG. We share the same interests, joy and worry about our plants no mather what nationality. period.

I don't understand the need for area limited ads, if I want something from US, Australia, China or whatever I pay the postage to have it sent to me. People make a big fuss over sending overseas and I cant see why. One doesn't have to fill in more paper whether you send it overseas or over state line it just costs more in postage IF one plays by the import/export rules And I hope that the sellers don't limit themselves as to just sell within their state or country.
I have started to buy some seeds from US E-bay and the seller where surprised as to how easy it really was. and yes at first some did limit themselves to US market.

Drooling over some garden items have made me check out postage and I found the postage for some items costs less from US then from ex. Germany. so where do you think I rather shop :0))

I know there is some items that cant be shipped even outside state and that is one thing one just have to accept.

Regarding the member/subscriber "issue" yes there may be people who join DG merely as members just to be able to sell there items and not have to pay for ex E-bay fee, but that is up to Dave.
Janett

Baa I have to agree with Janett - you could sell all sorts of things from England and use the money there to buy plants if you want - or garden tools, or send seeds this way with no problem. You just have to know before you get started with the whole thing waht your rules are and know how risky you are willing to be with those rules. I think this would be great to have here on Daves I would love to have a place to do this here on Daves and to shop here. I think this would be a good idea and I am here to help in anyway you need Dave.

Janett

Whether the seeds get through or not it's illegal without a phyto cert. However now APHIS has produced a way for US citizens to receive small amounts of seed if they have the required paperwork (I posted a thead for this in the seed trading forum last month should anyone want more info). I too have sent seeds without the phyto cert, some have been received others haven't either way it's still against US customs rules and the US isn't the only country with those rules!

Believe it or not both you and I agree on a lot of what you have posted. I've opposed the regional forums since I've been here for the very same reasons. I use the EU forum because the site is so large now, I miss the posts of some who frequent the EU forum who I'd previously had contact with in other forums they no longer visit and we run a round robin. I make a point of not restricting myself to the EU forum but I do make use of it because I chose to make that compromise to keep in touch with some really great people I wouldn't normally see, time was other non-Europeans members would come and visit the EU forum too. Here's the thing though, the EU forum goes in fits and starts because we do not have enough EU members anymore to keep a good flow for that one forum, if it's noticable there, who else is being lost at the wayside?

For my part, speaking now specifically about the proposed feature, should I decide to advertise my business on the proposed feature, I am restricted by my own business insurance in selling outside of the EU, so from a business angle I could be throwing money away on a feature my fellow countrymen or Europeans barely use if ever or I'm opening myself and my business up to a lot of potential problems. Like a lot of small businesses, I simply don't want to be in that position.

As a private seller I'm less likely to find a US or other International customer because of the exchange and postage rates and times. I don't blame anyone for that, it's just how things are. What I'm saying is if these are the things I'm up against as an International member, do I really want to use this feature as a business or a private seller or buyer and sadly the answer right now is no.

Do I agree with any regional restrictions, well no I don't my entire point in this thread is that I dislike regional restrictions, I see there there are both pros and cons.

Both you and I are in the fortunate position that we are already here, we know and enjoy the many benefits of DG. There are many out there who have chosen to pass by DG because they can't see anything for them here? That's a big pity because it means there are lots of people who can't see the real potential DG has for members across the world and in that statement is the whole crux of the matter for me.

Baa i am absolutly positivly sure that I dont need a Phyto Cert to import seeds to Sweden. however I dont know if the sender needs it to export "from" US. I have both spoken to and e-mailed with the two persons that handles the import laws here. If I import grass, prunus and veggie seeds I do need a phyto cert, but only then.
I also spoke to the Chief on the import checkin/out points ( 1 of 2) just a couple of weeks ago when one parcel containing MG:s got lost in the mail.
Quote::
If a parcel containes any unorthorised material mixed with legal you will recieve a mail asking if you approve to it be destroyed if not the parcel as a whole will be sent back to the sender. If yes, it will be destroyed and the rest(legal) will be forwarded to you. end quote
She knew I didnt have a phyto and what the parcel contained because I did ask just one more time to be absolut sure. Within EU I dont even have to have phyto on plants
Sorry Dave to be a bit of topic, but I think its good for some people to know that may be advertising seeds. :0))
Janett

Sorry I wasn't clearer Janett. The US customs requires a phyto cert, with the small amount of seed exception as I described, as do quite a number of other countries across the world including the UK, the exception for Europeans is that those countries in the EU don't need a phyto cert from other countries in the EU unless they are restricted species. Of course you will know more about your import laws in Sweden than I do but I was talking in a world wide sense with an emphasis on the US customs (since the main buyer and seller base would be in the US) rather than talking about Sweden. I should have clarified that in my post and I didn't, I apologise for for that.

My apologies to all for my unintended hijack with this post.

I've no problem with people advertising seeds in a specified area, I just don't feel it's a feature that is a benefit to all members.

Sorry Baa, I did missunderstand a part and I was thinking YEAH maybe more nice things to buy for the garden :0)) If Dave starts this. I didnt think of the EU "selling" part to outside EU. Some garden items are hard to come by here and if you find any you have to be a millionaire to afford them
Janett

I like it, and I think fees could be based on whether a person is a subscriber. That would take care of concern for spammers while providing yet another benefit of subscribing. I’d even be willing to pay an extra yearly addition to my regular subscription for occasionally posting items for sale. There could even be a yearly fee, with different amounts based on number of posts allowed to the forum.

I’d also like to see a separate forum for “wanted” posts.

Personally I'd love to see a *Wanted* section made available (I'm not sure if this was mentioned above or not). It's so frustrating to want seeds but not have what the person would like for trade.....like many here I don't want to have to order one seed package from 5 to 10 different companies when a member may have excess that they'd be willing to sell. I'd also love to see the *Wanted* area available (and just seen) by subscribing members only.

LOLOL Obviously it was (now that I've just seen Cheryl's post).

My thoughts are this:

#1 I'd rather do business with a fellow DGer--aren't we here to support one-another?

#2 Maybe many of would feel easier about posting a pretty plant instread of worrying how many dmails one would get asking for a trade or to buy it

#3 The brug forum (for one) would probably benefit as welll, so many newbies begging for a start would not have to feel bad begging and would have a place to look.

#4 follows #1, if I'm looking for a service or plant or anything, I know I'd feel better within our family and supporting them instead of a stranger. If one needs a web designer, a graphic, or tax preparer, etc we'd have a place to look.

My big question is to if we could have services and sales seperated. I would think those have have ongoing services would be glad to pay yearly for such a great tool! We would be able to post a website addy, right?

Thanks for always thinking about our best interests Dave! Just think how many unemployed and retired people could benefit from this too!

Have we told you how much we love you lately?
Vi

This message was edited Jul 5, 2006 5:29 PM

Janett thanks for pointing it out to me :) We're very fortunate in the UK as we can obtain such a lot of gardening items and plant species. Not everything of course, where's the fun in building a collection if everything was easy to find but enough to keep many gardeners happy!

Hello All, I just read some of the post, so I hope I don't repeat anyone, as far as the cost of running an ad and how many items they are allowed, couldn't you have it set up to say something like this.
Example:
1 - 4 items $5.00
each aditional item add $ 1.00
Mind you, it's just an idea :o)

Connie

I'm not completely decided one way or another.

I'm finding that more and more DGers are becoming sellers and would be thrilled to have this service. However, I'm worried that some DGers would begin abusing their friendships once selling in DG becomes "okay." You can tell them all you want that it's strictly restricted to this forum, but you've heard the saying, "You give an inch..."

I tend to be a pushover. I tend to make small purchases for friends who ask me to simply because they asked me to. I'm sure there are many others like me. And should it get out of hand, the only solution a pushover sees is to leave DG. Now, don't think I'm issuing phony threats here...I'm just saying some people, rather than saying no, would rather just politely leave the room. Especially when so many sellers join that non-sellers feel out-of-place.

On the other hand, I have some seller friends who'd just LOVE this feature. DG would almost certainly gain more subscribers because of this feature. And purchases I've made from DGers have usually been better quality than large nurseries.

So I don't know...this is a pretty sticky idea. And normally I wouldn't comment- I usually am of the mindset of: let the people who want it have it and I'll stay out of it. But so far most of your comments have appeared to have been from sellers, so here's a view from a non-seller.

I would also be more of a buyer than a seller, at least for now, and I like the idea. The forums would still be policed like they are now to avoid people trying to sell things anywhere else, so I think all that would happen would be it might create too much work for the admins if lots of people forget the rules, but I don't think we would ever see stuff like that in the forums or feel pressured to buy. I know how you feel about being a pushover when friends have stuff, but I think DG subscribers who are selling things would be very careful to follow the rules and wouldn't be trying to sneak in references to their stuff for sale in other places anyway, the "problem" people would be the ones who were only members not subscribers, and since you wouldn't know them like you know many of the subscribers I wouldn't think you would feel any pressure to buy from them like you might from someone you know better.

I don't think members that have been here for a long time would abuse it. I can see where new people might pop up seeing an opportunity. I do have a very small plant business that came about after being here at DG for 5 years. 99% of the time, I try to trade with a DGer, rather than make money from them. I have specifically purchased a few things and sold them at the same exact price I paid with absolutely NO markup when asked. I can say personally I won't live or die depending on whether or not this forum goes through. My only desire ever has been to make enough money to buy more dirt and plants. LOL

Before I hit send, I want to say my post is not aimed at anyone but a comment from a long time member who is new to selling and on a small scale and I intend to stay that way. My friends willl always be more important than money.

I like the idea.

I like it too, when are you starting Dave?

I've been working on it most of the day. There's a lot of programming involved. I expect to launch it tomorrow.

dave

cool!!!!
:^))))

It's certainly not finished, but it's half finished. :) I'll post a new thread about it.

I thinks it's a great idea too!!. I am for subscribers only and different categories if possible.

I hate to be a party pooper here, but I am in agreement with cjolene, some people don't want to rock the boat, and some people are a little more clever at luring people into what they really don't want to do. The result would be happy DG members becoming unhappy, thus resulting in them quietly leaving.

Feedback being left on member's page is fraught with problems, as on ebay the honest buyer can so often be made to look like the bad guy, when the seller wants others to believe they are the good guy so they can keep pulling the wool over potential buyers eyes. What a shame that would be, to ruin a good feedback system which is used for honest plant trading.

The fact that one would need to subscribe to partake doesn't guarantee a thing. I can see dishonest ebay sellers joining in order to increase their dishonest market. I know of people that have joined DG in order to hound people on here for trying to get advice on how to go about righting their horrendous mistakes of buying from a dishonest ebayer.

I came across a thread recently where some rare seed was being sought by a few people. It was found from an honest seed seller here, but was also found being offered by an ebay seller. That ebay seller I know of, and you might say I know a great deal about that person. They were selling grossly misrepresented seed which could be bought from some of the less well know sellers here, who are honest collectors, growers, and sellers. The names of the plants were always vague, but I recognised many of them and knew who was selling them. The seed could be bought with twice as many seed usually as they were offering, from the original sellers, for less than £2. Because of the huge lies that were being told, you know the type, expert in the field, friend in every port, knows people no-one else does etc etc., and many ebayers (newcomers in particular) being green to ebay and gardening, the seed was going for extortionate amounts, one lot of 10 seed went for over £80.

I had a friend who was having problems with this person, and was getting annoyed, so I did what I felt should have been done before. I contacted the seller of some of the seed, who was unaware of this person's ebay activity, and the supply very soon dried up as none of these genuine sellers would be a part of someone so dishonest. That person signed up to DG, hounded the people discussing it, making themselves sound like a wronged person and the others were slighted for it. The organiser of the thread left DG shortly after, 'removed' I saw on the home page. I thought that person was a valuable DG member, and the whole thing almost made me think of leaving myself.

The dishonest ebay seller was playing the sob story, you know, disabled, on benefits, family etc., I know for a fact that this person was working.

Sorry, but no thanks, I can see the benefits for genuine people, but where there is a good thing there is always a crook ready to take major advantage.

If this person is looking, they had not signed for a full year, and wish to have a go at me then by all means do so, I am ready and willing to reveal my source. Or should I say their source, where they bought the seeds from and so dishonestly ripped so many people off.

Hey wallaby1
Long time no hear, see!
How tha world are ya & fine I hope that is.

I placed an ad on the new classified thing. Be interesting to see how all this plays out. I believe any problems will sort themselfs out.
My ad is my produce site so if ya see it, don't laugh to hard.
I'm a better gardener than a webmaster.

Have a good one
You friend charlie

Hi there heycharlie!

Been around heaps, I will take a look at your site. The likes of you I guess we know we can trust, shame I can't do anything but perhaps might have a good laugh!

I notice you said you have had a lot of viewings from outside your country.

Can we ask Dave for a 'laugh' monitor too?

Your friend having a good one! (day is that?)

Wallaby - I agree with everything that you have written. Sure wish you lived in the US.


Crystal

Hi Crystal,

Well I suppose we will just have to hound out the baddies eh?

The one I was referring to was the second I had seen, and we do know the other one don't we?

Ah, but computers gives me a voice, so 'over here' is nearly as effective.

heycharlie,

I did take a look at your web site when it finally arrived, and I am VERY impressed. You are a clever web master, and such a great set-up you have too. Being a farmer's daughter I suppose it feels familiar. I had plenty of smiles, love the one of your DW having a rest after hard work picking.

Hey wallaby1
DW liked you comments!

"I notice you said you have had a lot of viewings from outside your country.
Can we ask Dave for a 'laugh' monitor too?"

Haha, perhaps this might work as a laugh meter:
http://www.sitemeter.com/?a=stats&s=s25produce&r=79&
d=710&md=1&pg=1&v=100
Or
http://tinyurl.com/zhxac
-
Represents recent, last 100 hits
(from a newer site meter) Old one has near 12,000
____________________

Doing a google search for:
Results 1 - 10 of about 59,300,000 for market bulletin.

Doing a search for:
Results 1 - 10 of about 41,500 for dave's garden market bulletin.

Which will take you:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/
Gardening Forums at Dave's Garden
____________________

Three members joined on the 7th.
Perhaps as News spreads there will be more members give it a try.
Price is right plus I personally can't see it hurt the general membership.

Edit here
Mouse over colored dot for actual location & other info.
See Legend
-
Lol oh, was that you?



This message was edited Jul 10, 2006 6:25 PM

Fooled me!
Would have thought that post might have got more responce in tha last couple of days.

"dave
The idea has been put forth a few times in the past, that we create a classified ads type of forum for those people who want to put up an advertisement to the members here."
-
[Dave qualified where he was coming from
(we create a classified ads type of forum)
___________________

I just placed a second ad. If approved, read it.
Haha Its beautiful!
About tha women I love fer a couple of years.. Such Talent!

I am not being tha bad smell heah.
With this membership it isn't working. What is wrong?
Think Tank

Haha & Lol
I don't got tha smart!
Help.

Such a beautiful idea