organic meat and produce

No contention read into any posts here!

I think both Baa, Garden Mermaid, and White Hydrangea all make good points. I probably have become so immersed in my study of 20th century ills that I am sounding like a paranoid conspiracy theorist!

Baa, you are right about the industrial revolution - and no, I am definitely not 150 years old! I was thinking of these problems as being exclusively 20th century, and especially the latter half thereof, but they are not. And you are right again about our food being safer in an awful lot of ways - no botulism or trichonosis (sp?) cases of late. I simply wonder if we are getting too big and too far away from our roots, so to speak.

And please, I hope no one takes my musings as being fact- I am merely noting things I have observed and wondering about life as we know it right now.

Ivy, I have been canning home produce for 3-4 weeks now... in case of extended power outages. In the next 2-3 weeks I hope for enough money to get some organic chickens, grass fed, from a local producer and can several. Also, some grass fed pork and lamb, although not much lamb. My butternut squash should be ready for the root cellar soon and I'm looking for some organic Kennebec potatooes or sweet potatoes. Next year I shall have my own, God Willing.

I just feel the need for some protein on my shelves along with my dried beans & rice. The power goes out often here and I can live without my oxygen tank but not food.

Golly, Darius. Are the power failures due to weather conditions? I hope everything is alright.

MMM butternut squash. It feels like the right weather for winter squash here.

I know, I like my meat as well. I made a vegetarian meal last night for dinner- tomatoes and mozzarella/basil, avocado cucumber soup, and portobellos stuffed with garlic and herb cheese. It wasn't bad, but my family is very meat and potato oriented. I have to admit, I missed the meat. If you can go for a couple of weeks without, it gets easier, but I don't want to!

It sounds like you will have lovely food for the fall and winter. I wish I were as industrious as you. My kitchen is unfortunately half demolished right now awaiting a remodel. I am getting antsy about how to make good food for lunches for my little girl, who will be in first grade.

Gotta go now, she woke up really early this morning and got me up too. I am beat.

Ivy, you might want to check out the Vegetarian Meat & Potatoes cookbook, which has hearier vegetarian recipes :
(Don't worry, I'm not trying to turn you into a vegetarian!)

http://www.amazon.com/Vegetarian-Meat-Potatoes-Cookbook/dp/1558322051/sr=8-1/qid=1157261886/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-6660011-4533720?ie=UTF8&s=books

When I recommend organic food, some folks tell me they can't afford to feed their families organic meat or dairy and find vegetarian food not substantial enough. (Some folks think vegetarians live on salad......not true!). Whether one eats meat or not, vegetables and legumes are an important part of the diet. For those who want to stay organic and want to stretch the grocery dollar to afford it, including some vegetarian dishes can help. Recipes that traditionally chop the meat into small pieces and mix the meat with vegetables, or use the meat primarily for flavouring (like many Italian dishes) also provide options.

Garden Mermaid

I'm practically unable to respond to your post on forum as GMOs and EU agriculture is terribly political. Let me put it this way, some countries follow the rules regarding pesticide useage and withdrawal times, others are more relaxed about it. GMO labelling will be pretty much useless in time, in fact despite the UKs current obsession with food labels, our non-GMO wheat supply was found to be contaminated with GMO from imports, what a mockery that was.

I had no trouble digesting the food on my trip to the US, what I did find in the grocery stores (in NE, wintertime) was less choice over all than I would expect in Hamsphire UK at any part of the year. It made me appreciate that while I disagree with the production of out of season foods and the sheer food miles of the worldwide imports (and their impact on UK farming) I could afford the choice to be choosy. I never did get round to eating the Jimca either, I'll just have to grow one myself LOL.

I wasn't trying to say farming shouldn't have any blame attached. As a conventionally trained (ex)farmer, I've a fairly good idea of the systems and chemicals used in farm production and an awareness of organic systems. I will say I'm not terribly concerned about having an entirely organic diet, I am concerned about how and where the produce is farmed. I'm here in the Organic Gardening forum because I've an interest in good land management practise and that doesn't really differ much between organic and conventional, good management is good management and it all comes down to the old adage, Prevention is better than Cure.

Thank you Zeppy :)

White Hydrangea, thank you for pointing out fit people also suffer. I know about thyroid conditions I have one for which I take a high dose and yes the fatigue is crippling. I was super fit working on farm full time, gardening, travelling about, riding horses, motorcycles etc, I ate a good and varied diet and was born in a heavily industrialised area. I was also under a huge amount of pressure and my work and home life was so intensely loaded I was (and still am to an extent) a workaholic just about to suffer the consequences of a life stuffed too full, something had to give, if it wasn't my mind it had to be something physical. My personal view is that thyroid conditions are very complex and from my own findings it seems no one knows how or why they happen.

Ivy1 I agree that many people are too far from their agricultural past. In someways this is not an entirely bad thing as it sometimes takes someone who is not from a certain background to see a different view. I was not born on a farm or in a rural community I gravitated towards it throughout my earlier life thus inforcing my belief that farmers are born not made :)

I think we in the U.S. are too quick to come up with gimmicks- in food production as well as everything else- we look for wonder food, wonder drugs, cures and things to make us "happy". It is not a bad thing- science is an amazing and useful tool for the betterment of society. We just jump the gun and think everything new is good.

I will always come down on the side of science, but we are blurring the lines of what good science is, just as we are confused about what good food is. We must be able to dscern whether a study is done in a proper way, or if it is based on faulty research. We need to take the time to find out how a study was done, and we generally don't know how to do that, or don't want to take the time. We also want others to do our work for us......

Our main problem over here, as I see it, is that we don't know what quality is anymore. My MIL is constantly talking about quality in clothing- she is a seamstress, so she knows. But as production moves away from the home and in fact out of the country, we lose the ability to tell what is good, because we no longer know what the process is. We have lost the basic knowledge of how to sew.... or grow.

Thank you Baa. I always appreciate your point of view and didn't mean to put anyone on the spot with the GMO issue.

Guess I better go reread the DG guidelines so I don't get myself booted off!

I want instant gratification, and I want it now and I want it over and over.....

MQN- LOL

I have watched this "debate" carefully - and MQN has IMHO said the most w/the fewest words - I however do not want it now - I want it to be wholesome and real - hard to find in this ever changeing world.

Debate? And here I thought we were just having a lively discussion!

To add to what I was saying earlier, I find it quite aggravating. I get more exercise than most people I know, and I have a better diet than most people I know. But people look at me, see an overweight, middle-aged woman, and assume I'm some kind of couch potato who sits on the couch all day shoving Cheetos into her mouth. Then all the assumptions follow. I can't be very bright. I must be a failure. If I can't succeed in losing weight, I probably can't succeed in anything. Etc. etc.

In my nearly five years at my martial arts dojo, I've probably seen nearly a hundred students come through the door--and go out again. They can't hack it. And all of them were younger than I am.

Mind you, I long to LOOK fit. I know I'm pretty healthy, but it would be nice if other people saw it, too.

Okay, off the soapbox.

The problem is not with your weight - the problem is in how we see people. TV is a huge factor. We are such a shallow society. I don't think most people would be this way on their own. I think most people would be able to see you as who you really are if it weren't for the idiot box constantly reinforcing the weight issues. Just as media values a certain prettiness, it also values stupidity over brains. Hallelujah- I don't want to be a stupid girl! If those people can't see the real you, then forget them.

Sometimes I get depressed over my weight, but I decided a few years ago that the best revenge was to be happy with myself NO MATTER WHAT. I want my daughter to see that fat is OK. Healthy is important, but changing yourself for others is not the way to go. The fat police is a big marketing tool. My five year old daughter told me "Mom, you should join that Nourishe thing. Then you could be skinny." I explained that those people don't care if I am fat, they just want my money, and I am fine the way I am.

I spent my whole life thinking other people were better than me, and changing myself for them. Don't waste your time, cause it doesn't work. Just go in that dojo and show them you can kick their !@#$%^. Be proud of your body, and all the work you do. You SHOULD be proud of it! NO MATTER WHAT!

OK. Off my soapbox too. This kind of prejudice just gets me really upset.

My DH would like you ladies to know that he thinks women are supposed to have curves. Voluptuous is womanly and sexy. :-)

If i may put in my .02 cents :)
I think people are just lazy, they are so dependent on everything being made for them and processed for them , people have forgotten how to cook!!!!!!.
Everyone in the morning is eatingh cold breakfast cereal ??? what happened to oatmeal ,eggs,toast, berries and yogurt or an omelet or french toast huh?
I have been learing to can and preserve my own food ,and my friends all think i m crazy!!!!! " why not go to the store? " they ask, i tell them " why not make it yourself ?" yes is it more work yes it is. I relize this is all simple in reason ,but it is just a thought.
Why are we as a nation so fat?, because we don't rember how to eat! fruit is a FRUIT ROLLUP, oh i just cringe everytime i see someone buying those. A vegtable is frozen or in a can of corn ,oh yuk if they only knew. Noodles are in a box??? and i see some with MEAT in a box," yuk." Soybeans ?? isn't that a rock band ? LOL
well that is my two cents LOL for what it is worth.
I m with you on the curvatious creations of a womans body garden-mermaid:) the stick thing is way to overrated and just looks sickly
best
sue

ROTFL sue! Yep, I'm one of those scandalous people who actually cooks from scratch most of the time. I agree with you that many people have either forgotten how to cook or never had the opportunity to learn in the first place. I soak our porridge grains overnight with a little yoghurt to breakdown the phytates. It cooks faster in the morning and is so much more digestible. We buy bread from an old-fashioned German bakery that uses a traditional slow ripening leavening technique. I'm hoping to find someone with a healthy desem starter (see Laurels' kitchen bread book for description) that can send or sell me some to get my own going. There is actually very sound nutritional reasons why many foods were traditionally prepared in a lengthy manner.

A colleagues daughter was pushing on the wall making "beep, beep" sounds and exclaimed "Look mom, I'm cooking!" So sad. Once I learned the realities of what the microwave actually does to the food, it was banned from use in the house.

I'm not sure laziness is necessarily the cause of the easy- fix packaged food popularity though. The information age has greatly altered the work place. We are expected to do more in less time and work longer hours. Some days my brain is so fried after work and I'm so hungry that all I can think of is "Feed me now!!!!" and wish I had someone who was at home to have dinner ready for me when I arrive. Needless to say, we usually dine out when it gets to that point.

A note on the microwave, - a microwave cooks by viberateing the molicules of the food causeing them too heat up from the friction. This also causes the liquid within to be released into the air within the microwave oven. Therefore if you heat someting in a microwave and remove it immeadeatly from same - it will be dry (You let all the mosture out when you opened the door). If you leave the microwave sit for a few seconds (like ½ the time it was cooking the food) the food will reasorb the mosture.

As for useing a microwave - the energy used is much less than a conventional oven, leading to a very great energy saveings. As well as time saveings (even with the remostiure time).

garden_mermaid, I banned my microwave for the same reasons, regardless of what Dyson just posted.

Darius - I have set my use of the microwave to reheat only, unfortunately I only know how to cook in massive amounts - and now that the wife and I are the only one here - we reheat food alot. I use the regular oven for "Cooking".

White Hydrangea,

What you have is called athlete's body. You are supposed to be strong and fit. They are muscles. you should be proud of your body.

I am on the other end of the stick. Thin with long arms and legs. I hate it and could kill to have curves. i see myself as less of a woman because of it.

I fully admit I use pasta in a box and frozen entrees. I have a heavy schedule. I'm at the dojo three nights a week, and then I have an hour and a half commute home. At that point, I don't have time to cook the old-fashioned way. It's either a sandwich or a frozen dinner. But most of the time, I actually cook on the stove.

My current sensei is a young guy, a batchelor, out on his own for the first time. I keep telling him that cooking is easy. At least the way I do it. I cook some rice, put some broccoli into the same pot. Take a piece of fish or chicken, dump that into a fry pan that I've sprayed some olive oil into, season it, and cook till done.

As for the skinny/fat debate, thank you all for the vote of confidence, but I don't think the flesh hanging over my belt is muscle! I tell people that I've got a six-pack. It's just hidden behind the keg!

But I see pictures of celebrities who look like they only weigh 70 pounds. You can see every bone, every rib. They have no bosom. They look like famine victims. I want to grab them and yell, "eat something!"

I saw Keira Knightley's premiere gown, which looked like she was wearing a gold lame scarf to cover her (cough!) essentials. It didn't really hide anything, but she was so scrawny that there was nothing to hide! And this is sexy?

Health and fitness is what I'm concentrating on, though I do admit I wish I could see the six-pack I'm forming. (I can do over 100 crunches, btw.)

Spider, you sound like a natural "crane." The Shaolin system I follow has five animals, and they all have different attributes. Being a crane means long reach and balance, definitely good attributes to have. (The other animals are tiger, leopard, snake, and dragon.)

Dyson, so that's why the instructions tell you to keep the entree in the microwave for a minute or two after cooking. I thought it was so that it cooled down slightly and didn't burn you.

WELL your right on , i guess lazy is a bad useage of words and you are right some nights i m at my wits end. I do use a microwave for reheating, i have a teenager and i don't think i want her using my gas stove for cooking , if you get my drift. LOL. Her and fire are not good friends, the girlscout leader told me so. ahahahaha
Spider don't let your body image make you feel less of a woman it is the heart inside that makes a woman , i was looooong , tall ,skinny and flat as a board in my younger days. Then i ahd twins. LOL now i m just sagging. I wish i was a stick again . it sure bets saggy. LOL
sue

Spider, You are no less of a woman for making Twiggy jealous. Those of us with curves just have to battle for recognition in today's world. Look on the bright side - shoulder pads and padded bras are far more comfortable to wear than girdles, waist cinchers and corsets! *smile*
One of my favourite movie lines is from the first Pirates of the Carriblean where Keira Knightly's character says something like "Pain? You think you know pain? Try wearing a corset!".

What you are describing in terms of natural thinness is what Ayurveda calls a Vata, or Air predominant body type. You might find it interesting to learn about a Vata-pacifying diet/lifestyle tips. http://www.ayur.com/dosha/vata.html


Getting back to a way we gardeners can help the earth, I though y'all might find the remineralize the earth site interesting:
http://www.remineralize.org/climate.php


Dyson, I'm adding a link to one of the microwave articles that convinced us to stop using it for anything we eat or drink. One thing I can tell you is that our energy levels increased significantly when we stopped using it. I have a toaster over that I use to reheat leftovers that aren't suited to stovetop warming. This saves using the big oven when the portion is small.

http://curezone.com/foods/microwave_oven_risk.asp

WH, I used to have a freezer full of Trader Joe's frozen entrees as my standard fare since they ingredient list usually looked healthy. I would zap one in the microwave at work for lunch, and often zap another one when I got home. Not because I couldn't cook, but because my workweek left no time to cook. I began to feel my energy draining away. I then spent one afternoon each weekend preparing my own fresh foods in bulk and freezing portions for the rest of the week. That was an improvement because I had fresh meals for the first two days. After I learned about the microwave's impact on nutrition I had to rethink my food strategy. I admit to using pressure cookers somewhat regularly. Jury is still out on those. I can't say I notice a big difference in my energy level when eating a pressure cooked dish vs the same cooked stovetop. The microwave proved to be the biggest personal energy thief.

I really liked the remineralization article. So does this mean I should put back all those rocks I keep digging up and pulling out of my garden? LOL....

I wonder if anyone has done any more research on microwaved food since 2000? Or reproduced the results? I'd be very curious.....

thank you very much mermaid, I will look into that.

Ivy, if you have a way to pulverize those rocks in to powder form, it would probably be a good thing to put them back in the garden. :-)

Although the courts finally did allow Dr Hertel to publish his work, the legal hassle he went through may have discouraged more studies.
Have you seen the "Future of Food" movie? We probably would not be able to discuss it on the public forum but it is an interesting film to see and provides much food for thought.
http://www.thefutureoffood.com/

That looks really interesting, GM. I wonder if I could find it at the library or video store.....

I went to see Little Miss Sunshine the other day and discovered that they are making a movie of "Fast Food Nation". It looks good, and if popular, could influence a lot of people.

"The Future of Food" is available on Netflix, for those of you who subscribe to it.

I'm looking forward to seeing Fast Food Nation. I read the book, and I haven't eaten a hamburger since.

I haven't even read it yet, and we haven't been to a fast food restaurant since we saw the "ingredients" Eric Schlosser mentioned on a talk show......

This message was edited Sep 6, 2006 10:59 AM

In case anyone hasn't already seen the animated short "The Meatrix", I'm posting a link here. Click on the round yellow buttons in the upper right of the screen that say "M1 Movie" and "M2 Movie"

http://www.themeatrix.com/inside/

These clever spoofs on The Matrix are animated short films designed to educate consumers and promote the message of buying organic meat and dairy products from family farms.

Here is the link to the StarWars spoof from the Organic Trade Association in case anyone missed it when it was circulating around the first time. Another clever animated film to promote the message of the benefits of organic farming.
http://www.storewars.org/

The Meatrix I had seen before (and posted links to on this site long ago) but the store wars was new thanks.

You are welcome. My DH had seen the original Meatrix (movie 1) but was not aware that they had made a second one related to the dairy industry. Store Wars had been posted several times too. They get lost in the threads sometimes. I still enjoy watching them. Gotta love Chewbroccoli and those fighting, frowning bananas!

Great video! I had aleady seen Store Wars, but not this one. DH is a big fan of both movies so I had to show him.....

I just wanted to show you guys the beautiful produce I got yesterday at the Farmer's Market. Not quite as much fun as growing your own, but close! I got it all home and realized how pretty all the veggies looked together, so I snapped a pic.

After less than one week of school, my 6 year old daughter has started having body odor problems. I remember that happening last year too, but this time I looked it up. Turns out a lot of other kids are having this problem, and many people chalk it up to hormones in the milk. We have been drinking nothing but organic milk at home, so now I have to figure out what to do. I am calling the school this morning to ask if there is an alternative to regular milk. Maybe I can start a grass roots movement to use organic milk in the school system. Something is not right in the world when a 5 or 6 year old has B.O. or starts exhibiting symptoms of puberty.

Whoops! Here is the pic- notice the beautiful Dahlia in the glass bowl - the lady at the flower stand gave it to my daughter. It is 7and a half inches wide.

The big tomato is a striped german variety. It is mottled with red all through - not really showing up with my camera.

Here is a close up of that dahlia-

I also got more fingerlings, non-organic but only lightly sprayed white peaches, and some Macoun apples. These must have a high brix count because they all taste great!

I tried to get some organic meat, but the only one selling this week had run out of anything I could afford. He kept trying to sell me sirloin steak! I just couldn't afford to pay for a $15.00 steak. In retrospect, I suppose I could have cut it up into small slices to cook at different times. I guess I will wait till the other guy shows up again with less expensive meat.