organic meat and produce

They are horse feed, I think. They come in fifty pound bags (between 8 and 12 dollars) and are my best gardening tool right now. Make sure there are no additives or salts in them. I broadcast them around established plants, put them in the hole at planting, or you can make a tea out of them to water with. They break down immediately on watering, and you can see that they get a sort of mealy texture as they disintegrate. I believe that it is just like planting a cover crop of alfalfa and turning it under for your plants - providing a good fertilizer and helping the soil a bit at the same time. I have not had any critters that I know of, but at least they would be eating the pellets and not the plants! I usually use a couple of big handfuls around my plants. So far, so good!

White Hydrangea- I agree about trying to get some actual food for your family out of the garden! I said for a few years after I went organic that I was growing pests and diseases, not plants! But I always figured it was my own fault, that I didn't know the right ways and the right places to grow. Maybe there are tricks we don't even have a clue about!

We just visited Old Sturbridge Village this week on vacation. I see that they used everything- every bit of land, every bit of waste, they hunted the squirrels and animal pests and ate them. The Japanese Beetle was not even here in the U.S. yet. And a lot of the people died. So when we go out in our teeny backyards and try to garden for a hobby, it's a little different.

Here I am trying to eat less and get back to nature, and they were trying to make MORE food and get civilized. The real key, I think (and a real eye opener for me), was how social they were. They really needed each other a lot. Everyone got together in big groups everyday. They knew if someone was in trouble, and they had a great communal system based on Puritan values. They were really into helping less fortunate people, and their other main concern was equality. They really believed that everyone was equal and tried to put it into practice. I forgot that this was a huge principle to early Americans in the North. The kids stayed home and worked on the farm until their mid twenties or maybe thirty for a man, when he could finally get his own place. A girl could run a household by nine years old , so she would go and help the women whose farm wasn't doing so well.The men, I assume did the same- if Joe wasn't doing well, he had the rest of the community (and their knowledge) behind him. Kind of like Dave's Garden but closer!

So we also went to the organic farm and watched the summer camp kids doing their thing. It was interesting, but not quite as informative as I had thought it would be.The kids were all standing around while the 2 knowledgeable kids teaching( I think they are the children of the owners) hitched up the donkeys to a couple of carts. I think we will go again later this summer.

The last two weeks we started shopping exclusively at farmers markets and a small butcher shop my husband found. Last night we had the most amazing meal of hand made sausage, chicken that I marinated in organic rhubarb chutney, purple beans, fingerling potatoes with olive oil and sea salt, and a salad made of baby kale, mache', Nasturtium blossoms and other baby greens. The only non-organic item was some Newman's honey-mustard dressing. It was an outstanding meal.

I haven't tasted food like that since I was a kid. I can't remember the last time a potato actually tasted like a potato!

My grandmother used to take new potatoes from the garden and bake them in her giant oven and then split them and put about a walloping 3 Tbsp of butter in the middle and hand them to us to eat. Nothing like new potatoes

Those fingerlings were so potatoey. I hope they have more at the market over the summer. Those are so little, I might even be able to fit them in my garden....

Hi gang,
I've been reading along and I think it's great that more people are buying organic foods. We go to the farmers market and have a summer veggie and thanksgiving dinner subscription with a local organic farm. I admit to shopping at Costco a couple of times a month and I'm pleased to note that even that giant chain is carrying a lot more organic foods.

Ivy, potatoes are the easiest veggie I have in my garden. If you plant them between other veggies you can stick your fingers in the soil and pull off the small potatoes without hurting the plant. It keeps them from spreading too far and you get a nice supply of new taters. I pulled about a pound off my blues this weekend, yummy :)

Ooh, Katlian thanks! I really want to try those fingerlings- have you ever heard of growing them in an old crate or bag? I think I read it somewhere......

I haven't had much luck container gardening with potatoes, but I didn't try fingerlings. You do want to get disease free seed potatoes. I use Wood Prairie Farm for my seed taters. http://www.woodprairie.com/catalog/index.html Love "Carola."

I belive Ronnigers is also very good.

Thanks Zeppy. When do you plant? I have never even read about taters, so don't have a clue.....

You plant according to your zone *and* what works for folks who live in your area. We plant peas on St. Paddy's Day and potatoes about three weeks after.

great! I am going to do it next year!

Ivy, it takes my potatoes about 2 months to produce tubers about the size of golf balls (for blue and red varieties). If you just want small new potatoes for steaming you could probably plant now and have some by the end of September. You might not be able to buy from the seed companies right now but it's a pretty cheap experiment to stick a couple of taters from the farmers market or organic produce section into the ground. I just planted some of my favorites from the grocery store in the ground between my tomatoes and they are doing really well. The fingerlings I got from the seed company aren't growing as fast and have brown spots on the leaves.

Do you plant whole fingerlings, or cut them into eye pieces? Do you stick them in with eyes facing upwards?

You cut them into pieces.

My potato plants are done already and we've taken probably 50lbs or more out so far.

Great thread, lots of good information and comments!

I have been doing more and more organics for years but the past 2-3 years it has been extensive. With several bouts of lung problems and varying diagnosis, my family doctor finally changed it to "environmental allergies". I am becoming more allergic to foods containing toxins, and even to clothing and bedding.

For a good informational site about clothing, go to Maggie's Organics http://www.organicclothes.com/index.asp and read this: http://www.organicclothes.com/environmental.asp

ps, Maggie's usually has great buys on irregulars, esp. socks.

Also a good site: http://www.organicconsumers.org/

When I started this journey in the 1970's, I remember reading books by Adele Davis. She said that if food on the shelf never spoils it means it won't sustain life, WHY are we eating it if it won't sustain life?

That is a great question, Darius. Obviously, our bodies just won't put up with this stuff - note the types of health problems currently in the news and your own health nightmare. I really feel for you, it must be really hard to deal with the toxins, which you may not even know are there as you ingest them. A few years ago I was worried about bug spraying programs due to West Nile Virus.. Now it has gotten to the point where I am concerned about food and clothing safety!

Very interesting websites, too. I really like Maggie's mission statement- about using organic products, giving workers a decent place to work, etc.

Some really frightening things from the OCA website. I wonder how picky they are about their news stories? I would like to know more about some of the stories, but I tend to be skeptical of the articles that don't show qualified research to back up their opinions.

Can you believe this? A quick check of my dog's treats reveals that corn syrup, preservatives and fake food are everywhere. When we went to Sturbridge, I left my dog with my BIL. He gave him 8 jerky treats in the course of one day. I don't know why, but that's another story. Poor Tippy has been scratching and scratching since that day. He has patches where he ripped the fur out of his skin. I ended up putting him on Benedryl. I don't know specifically what made him have this allergic reaction but I do know that the treats can't be good. He seems better today, and I am weaning him from the Benedryl. The treats are going out into the trash.

Ok, I found two bags of potatoes that were going bad - one so far gone they were thrown out the other was not rotten, just sprouting profusly so I figured what the heck and planted them, Out of the four potatoes planted I have two plants looking pretty good we will see what they build for taters.

Awesome! Let us know how they do. That's a great idea for using sprouting potatoes. Wonder how many other produce items you could do that with? onions.....

If you would like some mostly organic walking onions, send me a SASE bubble mailer. I say mostly because I don't keep exact records, but we only resort to chemicals for really bad bug problems and these usually don't have any pests.

I hope this link works. I'm not entirely sure I know how to do it. My last attempt at a link went bad.

http://www.canaryclub.org

Thanks Katlian, I would love to get them, but I don't think I have room this year. I really appreciate the offer though! I already planted my tomatoes too close together, then with the potatoes....We'll see how everything does!Thanks again.

WH- Your link worked. Thanks so much for the info! It is very helpful. I use a combination of organic controls for insects, since he almost died last year from Advantix flea and tick stuff. I find a combination of Rosemary, Lavender and Lemon works quite nicely as a deterrent. Tea tree oil soap also seems to help.

I use the most natural dog food I can get, but I didn't really stop to think about his treats! I have had 4 people check him just in case and he doesn't have a flea or tick on him. I ended up vacuuming the whole house and using some borax in between the carpets and carpet pads just in case, but no one has seen any sign of fleas. I am just worried because he is still itching a bit. It turns out that a lot of dogs have food allergies to beef, corn and wheat, all three of which are in the jerky treats. I am fairly confident that this is the problem. So now I just have to watch him and make him comfortable. I just wish I knew how long it would take to get out of his system. Thanks so much for caring.

I have been scouring the farmer's markets for a few weeks now, and realized that we can live on much less food for our household than I was previously buying. It is amazing how good food tastes when it is fresh, and how healthy I feel! I do a taste test on anything that I have leftover from the grocery store- so far, potatoes had the most difference in taste. Fresh, organic potatoes are sooooo much better than store bought. Cukes have the least difference as far as taste goes, but when you grow your own, you get so many for the price of a few seeds.....

I have been buying fresh fruit at the markets, eating it raw until it looks like it is about to go bad, and then I make homemade jam or preserves out of the leftovers. I have a Calamondin Orange tree that I bought in spring, and it makes the best marmalade ever! It is easy to make- just boil sugar and halved, seeded oranges with skins on. It will keep for a week or more in the fridge. I also made plum-rhubarb something or other. Pie filling I guess, because it did not gel- not enough natural pectin. It is super tasting though, we eat it for breakfast on organic wheat toast. Guess I will have to learn to bake bread now!

Fruit seems to be the hardest to grow organically. I wish I knew some tricks, because even at the farmer's markets, the fruit is rarely organic. Dissappointing. At least it is fresh and local.

By the way, for anyone who was interested, my dog Tippy is much better now! It turns out he had a beef allergy. I can't blame everything on non organic food!

Hi Ivy,

Happy to know that Tippy is better.

Do you have the recipe for the lavender flea repellant?

thank you.

Ivy - you are so right about fruit being difficult to grow organically. I talked to my dad last week about his growing up years on a family farm, and what kinds of fruit trees did they use? He has a nice little orchard of plum, peach, pear and apple trees but there is a constant problem with all kinds of blackspot and other diseases. This year the peach trees are beautifu and loaded but the fruit turns brown as it ripens - whahhhh? Can't win for losing. he said he is giving up and converting to growing nuts - hazel, English walnuts etc as he doesn't want to spray chemicals all the time.

I peel almost all my fruit that I buy. What a shame - a peeled apple isn't quite the same.

Oh, the skin is the best part! It is too bad. at least you can eat the apple inside. I have a friend who is allergic to apples- the whole fruit, not just the skin.

I really feel for your dad. At the farmer's market, one guy told me it was virtually impossible to grow fruit trees or corn without spraying with something.

Spider07- Here are a couple of sites I find very helpful for organic control of almost any pest. I really love both these:

http://www.ghorganics.com/page9.html

http://www.caninenaturalcures.co.uk/fleas.htm

My trick was to use tea tree oil soap in my dogs bath and rub him down with rosemary, lavender or catmint (whichever plant I was closest to) whenever we were outside.
I also sprinkled Borax all over my house, then vacuumed it up. Most flea powders are more toxic than borax, but be careful. Do not use it outside. It is toxic to pets and small children if they eat it or breathe large quantities of it, but it will kill flea larvae and eggs. It will not kill the adult flea, but apparently, you only have to treat your area once because they say it works for a year! It will supposedly damage good carpeting, but I have not seen a problem with it. It works like diotamaceous earth- by cutting and dehydrating bugs.You can use it in water with your mopping regimen because it will still repel certain bugs. It also repels ants and spiders, and I have noticed that if an earwig gets in the house, they will become slow and finally die if they cross an area where I used the borax. Hallelujah!
I am very happy with the way it worked. I got it at Walmart (sorry) near the bleach section. The brand is 20 Mule Team Borax. My dad says it was named for the way it was mined and then taken away by huge mule driven carts.

thank you very much Ivy.

I have not eaten meat for over twenty years. I eat very well. I grow organic veggies and I buy as much organic produce and food as possible.
I spend the summers in a small villiage in Southern Germany. The produce, Bread, butter is so superior to what I find in Southern California. Also, the fish comes from local lakes where motors are forbidden. In the small town I shop at there are 25,000 people, and 5 Organic food stores. The local produce is also very good and if Organic is not possible I do buy local.
So, learn to cook without meat. Eat smaller meals, better quality and the whole world will be a better place.

Amen, DesertLover!

I think most Europeans see the world as a much more connected place than we do. They are more earth-conscious.

I found this very interesting article and thought I would share it with anyone interested:

http://foodandfarming.bioneers.org/node/26

thank you very much Ivy. That is so interesting!

I started buying organic milk because of environmental issues, but now I get it by choice simply because it tastes better. And it seems to last longer, too.

I have a question. Outside of one frustrated episode when I used Bug-B-Gone on a couple broccoli plants, I have only used natural/organic products on my garden veggies. I know that the people who owned the house before me gardened, but I have no idea what kind of products they used on the garden. Assuming that they did use toxins, how long does it take before the toxins are out of the soil and I can be reasonably sure that my organic growing methods are actually giving me organic vegetables?

10 years.

Eek!

So I'm better off NOT gardening and just buying organic produce?

I have been gardening for 7 years organically, and in the last two years I suddenly see an amazing difference in my yard- lots of life, growth and fewer insect and diseases. I can't say for sure that it is due to organic gardening, but I think this is a real turning point in my environment. The biosystem is balancing itself, if you know what I mean. One of my neighbors also gardens organically, which helps.

Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. I live in a residential neighborhood with neighbors all around, and for all I know they're ChemLawn fanatics. I'm quite sure that whatever they use gets over onto my property. Now the neighbors on the other side xeriscaped their front lawn, so that sounds promising.

Luckily, my house is built on a slight hill, so stuff runs away from my property, not onto it.

If you set the example, your yard becomes the blooming haven that people want. Organics is hard - especially the first few years when pests come in, but they are indicators of your yard coming back to life. If you stick it out, and try new ways to see what is happening, you will be rewarded richly.

Ok - - so what things do you do to garden organically? I don't know if I qualify to be an organic gardener or not. I use products from Espoma, and I compost everything thats compostable in our house. I make enough compost to provide for my flower beds. I do use Round-Up in the springtime but have recently found that vinegar is every bit as effective if you get it down to the roots. Exception is Poison Ivy - capital letters because I am very allergic. I don't want to get close enough to PI to get to the roots - LOL.

I used to compost all cardboard including the colored glossy stuff that food packaging comes in but
I've read that some of the inks are petroleum based and some are soy. I've called companies to ask what kind of ink they are using and they don't even know. I gave up on it and I dump that off at the recycling center.

I do apply the lawn weed and feed for broadleafed weeds early in the spring or I think the dandelions would take over.

I prune away diseased material and toss it usually instead of spraying. One exception is going to be next spring when I have to spray my rhodos and azaleas for azalea gall which is rampant. I've sprayed a fungicide one time in 3 years and spent a lot of time picking the galls and affected leaves by hand. I tried using Messenger and corn meal this year but it hasn't made a difference. I don't have that kind of time every year and its getting worse instead of better. I leave habitat for all the amphibians which I love. I even have a little toad house under some shrubs but don't know if any use it.

I only destroy web worms or bag worms with chemical spray - 1 time last year, and I hand pick Jap beetles and blister beetles to be destroyed. Everything else I leave as part of Mother Natures apparent plan. Weellll, the exception there is slugs which I used to hunt with a bottle of dilute ammonia but I got wise and now I do something to destroy them in the fall before they can even hatch next spring. 1 time in my gardening career I put commercial grade slug bait down inside pop bottles and of course it worked but I'll never do it again. Still left with a big bag of that nasty stuff. This year I had this amazing infestation of earwigs - I have never seen this before and can't imagine what prompted it. They ate at flower buds and were in everything. I don't know what eats earwigs but I want more of them. I have spiders everywhere in my garden and small toads.

Still, I only flower garden at my house and I'd like to vegetable garden but I feel a little worried about that like someone above mentioned. I suppose it can't be any worse than what I buy at the grocery.
Especially fruits - OMG - If you grow your own its amazing how many diseases they get, and that gets me thinking about what they have to spray with to make that beautiful perfect fruit at the grocery.

I'm getting too longwinded here. What else does anyone else do to improve garden soil, stop bugs and remove foliar disease?

I just tried to buy some things from Maggie's Organics. Her website doesn't work. I tried for half an hour and finally gave up. If I click on Checkout or Place Order, it just sends me back to the Edit Shopping Cart page. I don't understand how they can stay in business when no one's able to buy their products.

White_Hydrangea, I buy socks from Maggie's site frequently. For me, it depends on what browser I'm using and right now I can't remember what I used on my last order.

WH - Is there a phone number on the site somewhere? It may have to do with the way your computer is set up- something called cookies. I don't really get it myself, but it happens to me a lot. I would call if you can find a number, and order that way.


Aly- I use alfalfa pellets, epsom salts and compost to improve my soil.

I haven't sprayed anything for 7 years, except the Japanese Maple that my MIL got us for our 1st anniversary. I used a spray last year because I didn't want to lose this special plant. The spray is from Gardens Alive called Serenade, or maybe it was Bullseye. One is for pests and one is for diseases and I can't remember which is which. They are both supposedly organic. I sprayed twice, once in spring and once last fall.

I am kind of weird, I think. I don't kill anything if it is not causing a big problem in my yard or garden. If the slugs eat a few holes in my plants, no big deal. If I see beetles, I hand squish them. I am planning to do an application of milky spore.

I have had a real problem with borers. I really don't know how to get rid of them, except cutting them out and squishing them. The spray for them is a horrible neurotoxin. I would rather lose my lilac than poison my child or pet, or let it run off into the water system.

I have discovered that if I wait to treat some problems, they resolve themselves in nature. For instance, for the last two years, I have had a small problem with cicadas. This spring my daughter and I noticed a huge wasp on our screen door. I looked it up, and it turned out to be a cicada killer. No cicadas this year in my yard at all. If I had sprayed, the wasps would have died or would not have come to my yard, and I would have had to keep spraying.

I am trying to learn old garden techniques- companion planting really works! I have three books that are the MOST help for planting. Tomatoes Love Carrots, Roses Love Garlic, and Gardening for the Future of the Earth. They are available cheaply at book fairs and flea markets or on Ebay. I can't tell you how much help they have been to me. As an example, I have cucumbers that are still going strong because I planted radishes and beans with them, and trellised them. These are all ways to protect your crop from cucumber beetles. A friend of mine got hit with an infestation and his cucumbers are gone.

I really prefer not to kill anything coming to my yard. I see a garden in a more broad sense- as a haven for animals and birds, even insects. Also, I use deterrents as opposed to poisons - like Irish Spring soap shavings. They work to keep animals from eating my plants. I sprinkle a little around all my roses and the squirrels don't eat the buds. Any other tasty plants get the same treatment.

I use these websites as well-

http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/canopy/3588/yourquestions1.html

http://solidwaste.ci.lubbock.tx.us/hhw/alternatives.htm

http://www.ommas-aarden.net/comp_plant.htm

http://www.gardening-guy.com/stories/storyReader$25

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/hints.html

I bought pelletized horse feed when I couldn't find alfalfa pellets. I have to drive too far for them.
Some of those websites have good info - thanks.