Adenium Fourm?

I have over a 100 different types of caudiciforms. I just love them. I have a number of Adeniums but I think that is a little to limited. I would love the forum.

Adenium or caudiciform forum would be helpful. Any chance?

It's beginning to look like we aren't going to get one.

I'm still struggling to understand how (or if) Plumerias fit into the picture. Would they be considered caudiciforms, too?

Just a small comment here...I think Terry could be concerned/might be about the necessary 'space and or servers'' (for lack of a better word) for a new forum. These 'forums and etc' take up tremendous storage areas on DG's servers.

Think of your hard disk and all those pictures, music files that you have and how much space that takes!! Then multiply that by, I think, 3 million subscribers on DG. Now, people, that is a "BIG space". I know, small comment!!!LOL But I still would like a forum for caudiciforms to include
adenuium. 8>))

Larry

This message was edited Oct 12, 2006 8:58 AM

This message was edited Oct 12, 2006 8:59 AM

Me too, I want the forum. Plumerias are not caudiciforms even if they are related to adeniums. How did plumerias get their own forum anyway?

Caudiciforms would be great, and cover a larger interest than adeniums alone. Plumerias are cousins to adeniums, and have some of the same needs, but not all. Some of the other caudiciforms are in other families.

Terry, you asked why we need a forum instead of posting to PlantFiles. They are very much 'your milage may vary' kind of plants, and the growing conditions matter a lot! My adeniums can be watered every day during the heat of summer, but somebody in a cooler climate might kill theirs doing the same thing.

Ronna covered cultivation, now I'd like to put in a plug for propagation of these things. PlantFiles doesn't give the details needed for propagating these things, and that's different from plumies. Some go by seeds, but what if you wanted to share your experience with cuttings, or grafts, etc.

Here are my concerns ;o) And they have nothing to do with server space - I let Dave worry about that! (*chuckle*) Seriously, I don't think that has ever been a deciding factor in whether to create a new forum or not.

The DG community:
My concerns have a lot to do with our sense of community. Every time a group splits off, it seems we lose a little bit of our sense of community. Yes there are arguments on both sides:

We are much bigger than we were two, three, or five years ago, and not everyone can keep squeezing into the figurative "living room" here, so adding new forums makes a certain amount of sense. To that end, we've added over 30 forums this year (not counting all the new "Home Talk" forums which were launched in January.)

That means we now have nearly 200 forums ("rooms" if you will), and no one can visit them all on a regular basis. Sequestering yourself in a narrowly-focused topic can mean you may lose out on the expertise of someone who doesn't know about or care to visit that specific forum.

Ease of navigation
This site is massive by any measure. We routinely get complaints from people who find it overwhelming. (And I suspect there are a lot more folks who just silently leave because they find it too daunting to figure out how to navigate around.) Adding on more forums compounds that problem.

Is there a real need to devote an entire forum to a particular topic?
Not picking on your request, but as an example, I did a site-wide search for "caudiciform" and got 49 threads. A search for Adeniums yielded just over 300 threads - and about 25% of them are PlantFiles photo threads. If a particular plant is overshadowing every other topic within a more general forum, then it's easier to see the need for it.

Other drawbacks
I've noticed that the more narrowly-defined a forum topic is, the more clique-ish it tends to become....and the higher the likelihood that problems will arise. Sometimes it's infighting (between two members, or two groups); sometimes the bickering is between "our" forum and another "competing" forum on another site. For that reason alone, I'd definitely prefer to consider this a request for the broader "caudiciform" topic, rather than adeniums, and I'd also urge you to consider whether Plumerias could be broadened to include all caudiciforms (I know we'll probably get some major pushback from the Plumeria folks, but let's at least consider it.)

Experience has been a hard teacher in this matter - the most "specific" plant forums represent 20% of what DG provides, and a dozen or so of those forums is where about 80% of our "administrative" time and effort is expended. (It's not a pleasant way to spend our time, either - it's typically dealing with disputes, editing threads, issuing warnings, etc.)

Please know I'm not opposed to the idea of this forum or any others, but for these reasons, I'm just not as quick to add a new forum on a whim as I might have been a few years ago ;o) Once bitten, twice shy....

Here are my replies to your concerns:
Quote:
Sequestering yourself in a narrowly-focused topic can mean you may lose out on the expertise of someone who doesn't know about or care to visit that specific forum.
The point of the forum is to collect the expertise!! And there are times on say houseplants when folks are pointed to cross-post to orchids or bromeliads to get answers. I personally have posted the same question to tropicals, houseplants, and propagation. What I found was that propagation was being read more by the outdoor gardeners, at least at that time, which is fine, I'm one too, but no one could tell me what to do for my cordylines you see. The plumie forum is great- for plumies (and I'm rooting my first now). But no one there knows about the peculiarities of caudiciforms, and the posts aren't winding up on C&S either.
Quote:
This site is massive by any measure. We routinely get complaints from people who find it overwhelming. (And I suspect there are a lot more folks who just silently leave because they find it too daunting to figure out how to navigate around.) Adding on more forums compounds that problem.
I dunno about that. Navigating is pretty easy if you can pull down contextual menus and read. And folks ask each other, truly, like about address exchange- D-mail is a great way to get help. I've gotten and given help that way. Someone who wants to learn about gardening will hang around.
Quote:
Is there a real need to devote an entire forum to a particular topic?
That goes back to my prior post about plumerias. What'd they do to get their own forum?
Quote:
For that reason alone, I'd definitely prefer to consider this a request for the broader "caudiciform" topic, rather than adeniums, and I'd also urge you to consider whether Plumerias could be broadened to include all caudiciforms (I know we'll probably get some major pushback from the Plumeria folks, but let's at least consider it.)
The problem is that plumies are not caudiciforms, plain and simple. Ya know, I wanted a euphorbia forum, then folks got all riled because euphorbia is a genus and a family, and a huge one. And adeniums and friends are related to them too. So I quit asking for a euphorbia forum when folks began talking about an adenium forum then a broader caudiciform forum. I'm figuring that folks who are growing some of the caudiciforms may have a euphorb or 2 in their collection to share their knowledge. They're not hanging out too much over at C&S, at least not for propagation and such.

I wasn't around when you began the home forums, I would have asked that this remain a gardening site, but so it goes. If I don't visit the home forums but once in a while, I can check threads. I figure most people feel that way. I mark my must-have threads and forums and change them at will. But this entire site contains through its members a world of plant knowledge we aren't getting any other way. So I speak for those of us who want to learn more about growing, propagating, not killing caudiciforms, which plumerias are not.

>That means we now have nearly 200 forums ("rooms" if you will), and no one can >visit them all on a regular basis. Sequestering yourself in a narrowly-focused topic >can mean you may lose out on the expertise of someone who doesn't know about or >care to visit that specific forum.

My 2 cents worth on this comment.No one reads 200 forums and most of us couldn't care less how many forums there are on DG.I regularly read three or four forums and keep about twelve on my watch list.I subscribe for those few forums and consider it a good investment.My point is,most of us have fairly narrow fields of interest where the forums are concerned.Having specific,targeted forums is a good thing in our fast paced world.

I have to say, I'm one of the seemingly few that shares in Terry's concerns. It seems like we're getting more and more subdivided and split up. For me, there is no way to keep up with all the specialized forums and I do miss out on other's knowledge because they frequent other specialized forums than I do.

I am a frequent contributor to the Cactus and Succulent forum. To me, this is where the topic of Caudiforms and Adenium belong. I don't understand the need for their own forum.

Look at the Orchid Cactus forum, for example. Except for the spring when they are blooming, the forum is as dormant as the plants it represents. And at other times, Epis and their relatives get almost as many postings in the C&S forum as in the Orchid Cactus forum, itself. It is just too confusing and no one knows which plant goes where, especially new people. It would, in general, be just as easy to have kept them in one tidy place - C&S. That way, we all benefit from those who know the most without having to add yet another topic to our watch list.

This message was edited Oct 13, 2006 8:09 PM

By your reasoning, ME, broms and plumies would move into C&S. there are lots of forums that are devoid of posts in the off-season, I suspect roses will wind down a lot, and very few people have been posting to hydrangeas lately. Rhodies and azaleas have an incredible short season, and the vireya people post to tropicals.
Mark forums to favorites to keep up. I'm faculty at a medical school and I can do it.
I still await a reply to my original question, why do some narrow divisions of plants have their own forums? Like plumies? Or, hey, hydrangeas and rhodies/azaleas? There hasn't been a posting to geraniaceae in over a week.

Our process for creating new forums has never been particularly logical or methodical - forums have come about because they was a request made and from what we could tell at the time, there appeared to be enough support and interest to sustain them.

The Hydrangeas forum is actually on its second "tour" - we had it, we dropped it, and we brought it back out when there were requests to do so; ditto for Geraniaceae.

Those are two examples of why why we now approach a new forum request a bit more cautiously and deliberately. When a forum languishes due to inactivity, we can remove it from the active list, but the threads posted in it are no longer accessible.

Hmmm, old posts have a lot of good info in them and not all of them become stickies. Gotta think about that one.
Would be nice if you had threshold data on how many posts it takes to keep a forum active. It's number of posts, right, not number of people who mark the forum as a favorite?
Wonder how loud the screams would be if some forums became seasonal, like the flowers/plants (I am thinking rhodies, roses, hydrangeas, lilies, maybe a few others, and they do include ones on my list). Or would the Californians all scream too much?

Our decision was a matter of looking at long-term (a year or more) of forum activity (number of posts) that led us to put some forums on hiatus a while back. A few of them (the two you mentioned, and a few others) have come back out into active status due to popular demand (and the fact we'd grown a lot since the forums were added and then shelved, which gave us hope that a re-entry would be more successful.)

Here are my 2 cents worth, from someone who has been around the cactus and succulent world for a good number of years.

First of all, Plumerias DO NOT belong, in any way, in the same forum as Adeniums (or vice versa), even though they are in the same Family. Adeniums are typically thought of as succulent caudiciforms, and so belong in the cactus and succulent forum (for now). There are over 10,000 plants in the Apocynaceae Family, and only 222 of them are Plumerias, 27 are Adeniums and 51 are Pachyopodiums. There are several other genera in the Apocynaceae Family which are also succulents, e.g., Caralluma, Ceropegia, Cynanchum.

Some sources state that the Asclepiadaceae Family has now become Asclepiadoideae, a subfamily of Apocynaceae, which brings even more caudiciform plants under its wing, e.g., Brachystelma, Fockea, Gonolobus, Sarcostemma.

There have been several books written over the years on Adeniums, Pachypodiums, and other caudiciform plants, as well as at least two websites devoted to the "fat plants":

http://www.gpdesert.com/
http://www.rare-succulents.com/index.htm

There are several other sites which devote a good portion of their offered inventory to caudiciforms. In addition, there are SEVEN Yahoo! groups and ONE MSN group devoted to the discussion of caudiciforms, as well as TWO groups located within the Great Petaluma Desert site.

Obviously, there are MANY people who are intrigued by caudiciform plants and are either growing them or would do so if there were someplace they could go to ask questions. While the cactus and succulent forum is the obvious choice, I don't believe a new caudiciform forum would create an elitist splinter group. The DG community doesn't have many of those type of people, and I don't know of any who post on the cactus and succulents forum.

I believe there would be a great deal of interest in a Caudiciforms forum, and it would possibly attract new members to DG. I vote to have this new forum.

Marilyn

Marilyn
I think you have made a very good point.
I really think a caudiciforms forum would be great.

P, right now there are several adenium threads on the plumies forum, started there precisely because adeniums and plumies are distantly related. Pelargoniums are succulents too, should they be folded into C&S? I think caudiciforms are specialized enough that they should have their own forum and there is enough interest apparently. add up these posts plus the threads in plumeria and you already have an active forum with more posts than some of the others. At least worth a try, especially if you are considering a gladiolus forum (!).

The only connection Adeniums, Pachypodiums and Plumerias have is that they are in the same plant Family. I think the Adenium posts were made to the Plumeria forum because people didn't know where else to post them. If there were a Caudiciform forum we could all refer people to that forum for expert advice.

While many Pelargoniums are succulents and could easily be discussed in the Cactus & Succulent forum, there don't seem to be very many people posting about them there. As you probably know, some of the Pelargoniums are also caudiciforms, and could be discussed in that forum too. I don't think strict segregation of succulent plants into C&S, Adenium/Caudiciform, Pelargonium, etc. is necessary, but it's nice to know that there are certain areas where more people are likely to post who are knowledgeable about a certain type of plant. After all, aren't we all here to help each other?

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts, comments and consensus re the Caudiciform forum.

Marilyn

Marilyn,
I did not know that some pels were caudiciforms, that is awesome and thank you. I was surprised enough to learn that pels are succulents. Mostly the pel posts go to Geraniaceae, which is probably a good place for them since that forum deals with the genera Geranium, Erodium, and Pelargonium in family Geraniaceae (right?) and the 3 genera are closely related.
Maybe this thread will wind up being where folks post about adeniums and other caudiciforms, at least it's a place we can hang out, ask questions, share knowledge.

Thanks for letting me know where all the Pelargonium posts are! Your Family ID for them and the other genera is exactly right. You can also include Sarcocaulon in there too. Here are a few names of Pelargoniums which grow caudexes, along with pictures:

Pelargonium triste - http://www.bihrmann.com/caudiciforms/subs/pel-tri-sub.asp
P. luridum - http://www.bihrmann.com/caudiciforms/subs/pel-lur-sub.asp
P. crithmifolium - http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantnop/pelargcrith.htm
Pelargonium - various - http://home.comcast.net/~wintergrower/pelargc.htm

Here are a couple of lists of Pels. Some are caudiciforms, some aren't. Why do I have it in my mind that most of the ones which are, are also winter growers?

http://www.plantzafrica.com/frames/plantsfram.htm
http://www.bihrmann.com/caudiciforms/div/p.asp

Hi Marilyn,
Wild plants, really hard to think of them as relatives of the garden geranium.
Hmm, the scented geranium pels don't seem to be caudiciforms-- graveolens, capitatum, tomentosum, cucullatum, etc. Do they have to go dormant? I have P. tomentosum in a southern window and it's still growing after growing outside all summer-long. Also getting P. cucullatum and capitatum, for those nice flower scents all winter long. Haven't seen any erodium or sarcocaulon posts in the geraniaceae forum (I think it is limited to G., P., and E. genera).

OK, we should make this the unofficial adenium/caudiciform forum. I'm marking it as a favorite. And I have extra jatropha gossypiifolia seeds to trade for something interesting, like another jatropha, if someone is interested.

Thanks for your patience and persistence. I put down a welcome mat for you here: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/662863/