Morning Glories 2005 #26

Here is photo of Bloom from my only Shibori 'Bluish-Purple' Flaked Vine
growing in Houston at my daughter's . . . and is throwing 'Solid Purple Flaked' Blooms.

Another 'Solid Purple Flaked' Bloom

Very pretty Emma! I'm so glad your son is doing better!

One more that is 'almost' Solid Purple Flaked

Thank you morning_gayle

One more photo of
Shibori 'Bluish-Purple' Flaked

Welcome home, Emma. So glad it was a relatively happy ending, friend.

Joseph

Thank you Joseph,
No place like Home!

Your flowers look ssooooo pretty. yesterday I made a Wooden bench 11x3 ft in front of the LR windows and started to sow some of the seeds I got. Mayby gonna get some beauties this winter :0). so long we have had sunny days but I think I might get some lights for the flowers also. I wil go to buy some more pots tomorrow, so I can pot some more :0)).
Janett

Thank You Janett,
I'll write you tonight.

How cold is it where you live.
We are getting down to 35-degrees tonight in Sunny East-Texas....
aarrggggg, I am so not ready for this cold weather.

Emma

Yesterday it was 32 F but sunny, Today its little warmer about 40 F but instead its very windy and raining. Normally this time of year its below freezing, but nothing adds up with the wether around the globe this year.
Do you usually get snow and this cold in Texas.
I really am born in the wrong country because I absolutly hate winter with all its snow and cold. The only time I enjoy snow is on the Christmas holiday when all the candels are burning and its so peacefull around the christmas tree.
Janett

Janett, talk about unusual weather, you are right............It snows maybe a really good one about every Hundred years or so...........well last Christmas eve was our Hundred Years........and it must have made up for two hundered all at once........
We had 13 inches of snow on the beach at Freeport and the same at my house....
this first photo was taken the day before the Freak Hit........this came on sooo quick we had not even had a freeze or frost before this.

And the next day

And my brug "Isabella" as it was just blooming really good...........

Wow, thers "some" differens in those pictures. lol
Did your Brug survive that chock, sorry about the blooms.My reblooming roses always freeze the last bloomperiod and stay "flowering" almost the entire winter. Have a stemd up Frezia and a red (????) stemd and they flower at least tree times every summer.
Janett

WillowWasp, The Cypress vine seeds I got from you is on "steroids" I planted 4 seeds in the morning of the 23 okt, and today I have two small seedlings, 1 inch high. Hope I will get some flowers on it too.
Janett

LOL.......janett that is soooo funny. I promise I didn't soak them in anything but good ole
Texas Heat...........
Guess they were so glad to get somewhere cooler they just took off...
So glad they are doing well for you..........
Later

Dee

EmmaGrace, so glad you're back and your son is doing OK. Must have been such a scare for you all. We had our first killing freeze last week and I tore down all my vines yesterday. So sad to see so many seed pods that did not get to dry first. I did get plenty of seeds from Asuka, Akathoukinounni and Fuji No Momo to trade. Only a very few from The Royal blue Tie Dye one and the Asuka NOT. Am trying to get a few more dried inside, but still very green. I will get back to anyone who has emailed me about trading as soon as I know how the last 2 are going to ddo inside. Otherwise, if you are interesting in trading for the Asuka, Akathoukinounni or Fuji No Momo, let me know what you have to trade. I am mostly interested in the large blooming Japanese ones. EmmaGrace, do you think this might be Shibori Purple? That was what it was suppose to be. I have been calling it a Royal Blue, but it is somewhat purple and looks a little like you last photo above.

Susan

Don't you just love the variations in streaking and also the leaf variegation in your JMG, Susan? Wow!

Joseph

Susan I just love your blooms. Joseph is right, wonderful streaking, flakeing and splotching. Really a beauty and I sure hope you got plenty of seed, I know many will want to trade and I am sure one of them.............LOL
Dee

Hey Janett,
We rarely get snow in East-Texas where I live. We get Snow 'Flakes' at times, but when it does snow it usually melts right away. Last year we did get a nice white cover and it was all gone by the next day. Like Dee said about the snow where she lives, which is further south from me, was a Very Rare occasion indeed. Texas Weather is crazy any time of year. I always say about Texas weather: 'If you don't like the weather here, just hang around - It WILL change....lol

Susan, Thank you about my son - What a nightmare that was!
Ohoooooo Nooooooo. You lost all of those incredible seeds - maybe you should have at least ripped the vines out before the frost and threw them in your garage or anywhere until they could have matured. Oh well...what a pity!
Your photo is very fitting for the name 'Purple Shibori', but truthfully I don't know what the real one looks like. PLEASE count me in for some of all of your seeds. I haven't put my list together yet - imagine that! Fact is I'm still collecting seeds and doing my best to get them organized. I will D-mail you with some information that I already have.

Emma

I would like to take the oppurtunity to Thank Zemerson for his recent photo contributions to the PlantFiles database which included some very nice closeups of flowerbuds,sepals and seedpods,as high quality cloeseups of these parts are necessary tools in helping to identify the plant species.

This message was edited Oct 29, 2005 1:13 AM

Ron,
Thanks for letting us know - or reminding us to look at Zem's Photos.

HEY ZEM....
Just glanced at your photos that Ron linked us to.
You have a Yellow Oleander?????
Do you realize how long I've been looking for one of those.
I need to write you. Will you root a couple or so for me. They root very easily in water. I have a Variegated Oleander that I can send you if you like.
Already have a cutting rooted and potted up.
I need to look at the rest of your incredible photos.
Great photography BTW.

Ron,
Here is the Solid White Stray MG that you ID'd for me in the last thread, or maybe the one before that. I'll go back and find the info and paste it here.
Here is photo of the pod of that bloom that you wanted to see for a better ID.

Thanks Ron,
Emma

Ron,
Here are the photo links to the Solid White that I was asking you if it was Ipomoea lacunosa

Bloom
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1815382

Side View
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1815384

Leaves
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1815388

Another Bloom
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1815389


And your reply:
Emma - I think you have a white Ipomoea purpurea var.diversifolia...The Ipomoea lacunosa should have purplish -maroon anthers and I don't see that feature in the photos you posted...The sepals look like Ipomoea purpurea to me...The different degrees of trilobing in the var.diversifolia can vary from a mild(like what you seem to have) to a much more distinct trilobing with deeper cuts and almost separate lobes...I have Ipomoea purpurea var.diversifolia and have seen the type of leaf shape that yours is showing...I would still like to see what the sepals on the maturing seedpods look like and what the seeds look like as far as shape,coloration and if there is the slighest hint of any hair or not...
I'm 99.5 % sure of what you've got there,but the seedpods and the seeds would confirm the ID for me...send me some seeds...I don't have the I.purpurea var.diversifolia in white,yet...

Thanks again, Ron.

Emma

Emma - Well,there is a good reason that I waited to see the seedpod before offering what I felt was a positive ID...
The pedicel on this does not reflex as Ipomoea purpurea should,and the length of pedicel below the small bracts is extremely short...but I still don't think that it is I.lacunosa for lack of maroon colored anthers...
This individual plant does not seem to conform to the usual standards and I will have to withdraw my previous tentative identification...this plant does seem to be something closely related to I.purpurea or in the batatas series,but exactly what,I am not able to confirm at this time,although I'm leaning towards a rare white flowered form of Ipomoea cordatotriloba or possibly Ipomoea x leucantha...perhaps the seeds may yield further information...
Thanks for posting this intriguing plant...
TTY,...

This message was edited Oct 29, 2005 3:22 AM

This message was edited Oct 30, 2005 3:51 AM

Thanks Ron,
I'll watch for the seeds to mature and post them. Just took that photo a couple of days ago.


Susan,
I was going over some of my old notes today and came across Ron's ID on your JMG's you were asking if they were 'Shibori Purple'.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1841707

Here is what he said:

"lincolnitess - those are Blizzard types and the differences in the blooms are very characteristic of the way that type of Blizzard gene acts...the Tie Dyes are a type of Blizzard ,so I wouldn't be too hard on the source because you got some that are showing some really nice color patterns that don't always show up...I'll trade you for a few of those".

So, maybe you could call them 'Royal Blue Blizzard' ???

Emma

Emma,
that was the PF main page. I don't have yellow oleander :( sorry (these http://davesgarden.com/pf/imagesbyuser.php?user=zemerson are my pictures.

Anyway (been a while since I posted), great news on your son :)) Nothing short of a miracle!

So, the wierd whiteflowered Morning glory, how many seedpods are there i.e. any chance of me getting a few seeds :)? Maybe you've discovered something new! Wouldn't that be exciting.

-Zem

Hi Zem,

Thank you about my son. Yes a miracle that we still have him.
Surely the angels were riding with him that day.

Oh Darn, on the 'Yellow Oleander', I just clicked over and looked at a glance without paying attention.
I still have an entire MG Thread to read that I totally missed out on, so there are many of your photos that I haven't seen yet.

But this one is certainly Grand!
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/91349/

I've never seen it before. I love it!
If you got seeds from it, I would love to have a couple or so - if you have enough to share.

The Solid White MG that Ron is trying to ID, only has ONE Seed Pod.
I'll be sending that entire pod to Ron to grow out and study, or I would be happy to send you seeds.
Maybe Ron can get it going and get lots of seeds to share back.
This is the one that just 'appeared' in my alley, so I'll watch next year more closely to see if others show up.
It really is pretty and very unusual.

I do, however, have seeds of the other Small White-Flowered Ipomoea lacunosa
that I grew earlier in the year that Ron is also describing with the maroon colored anthers.
If you would like any of these seeds, LMK

Emma

Emma,

Thats ok about the white one :) I've got too many seeds already (know the feeling, lol) Anyonw know how long MG seeds last? On the 'sakaya' ones, these vines were completely devoured by japanese beetles (curse those things) and strangled by the other JMGs (the vines are so frail compared to others). I got not a single seed off these *sniff* and that was all the parent seed I had. Maybe I missed a seedpod and some will come up next year.

I'd love some I. lacunosa seed. I have a wild version growing around here but I'd be interested in seing the difference in strains... My version has very deeply cut
leaves, but most pictures I've seed show one with almost entire leaves.

My Heain no Umi is going as strong as ever but my ChaChaMaru vine has died (I got 14 seeds)! lol. But that's good for an indoor plant.

-Zem

EDIT: I found 2 seeds of the mix that 'sayaka' came in. If you wanted those...

This message was edited Oct 29, 2005 10:58 AM

zemerson, Do you also grow them indoors? How do you pollinate them if you only get one flower at the time, can you save pollen to the next one flowers and then pollinate a couple of days later??
Janett

Janett,

I do nothing to pollinate the flowers of indoor-grown Akatsuki no Umi...the flowers seem to pollinate themselves. I get a bunch of seeds, I presume they are viable.

Joseph

Gerris2, Do you know of more mg:s that selfpollinate.
The pink one I found on the property I sadly havent found any seedpods on them, going to look tomorrow also, BUT the closest one I dug up and put in the garage, around it I also found some very nice roots that I am going to put in containers and try to grow indoors.
I will keep tab on those who d-maild that they wanted seeds from that one, I wont forget.:0))
Janett

Janett,

I defer to others on this topic. Enthusiasts like Emma and Ron can write books on the topic of MG pollination. I am eager to learn too.

Joseph

Zem,
MG seeds will last for YEARS if properly stored. Ron can probably give us a better answer, which I would as well like to know from Ron. The 'lost' Wedding Bells that a couple of folks brought back into the MG circle was dated back a few decades. I'd have to go to my notes to tell you the year. I also believe this one was found inside the original seed packet. Yet another 'Lost' I. tricolor 'Summer Skies' has also been found and is being grown out by another friend of mine that I hope to get seeds from this year.

Ron, would that be 'ONLY' Six Tricolors???
Heavenly Blue
Blue Star
Pearly Gates
Flying Saucers
Wedding Bells
and finally added back to the list
Summer Skies

Ron,
another question I'd like to know about is
What is 'really' the difference between
'Heavenly Blue'
and
'Clarke's Early Himmelblau'
except for the fact that Clarke's blooms earlier?????

Zem,
I just put seeds aside for you in your 'stash' of I. lacunosa.
As much as I would like to say yes to your offer of your only two seeds of 'sayaka'. I could never take anyone's last seeds. Why don't you grow them out next year and have your 'bug-gun' on hand and maybe you can get a great batch of seeds to share. I'd like to be at the top of your 'want list'. Thanks Zem.

Janett,
I think I'm even going to give growing MG's inside a try this year.
Talk about not having enough yet...lol
I'm just curious how they will do for me.
I hope my Wedding Bells hangs in there to bring inside to keep blooming even longer. It has been blooming like crazy the last couple of weeks.

Emma

I think they have a better chance with you than with me, because you have more sunhours than I have due to you are more south/closer to the equatorline. northpole is dark now and southpole have 24h day.lol
Janett

I have found since I've been growing MG"s that they are indeed self fertile :)

Okay,here we go(!)...

Ipomoea cordatotriloba can be a perennial or an annual,so Emma if your white flowered one comes back from the roots...let us know...

Sayaka is the name of the smaller pink yojiro,Fuji No Momo is the name of the larger pink yojiro...I have some seeds left from a pack from Japan...

Seeds will usually store the best if kept cool and dry,but usually the larger the seeds,the longer they will stay viable...very small seeds are known to lose viability much quicker...Some seed storage experts' store seeds at 150 degrees below zero for long(!) term storage,but I personally prefer to just keep mine 'cool'...

The Wedding Bells that were revived from the old packs were sprouted by a professional botanist who was hired to do the job...

I personally have stored Ipomoea tricolor for decades with little loss in viability...

I have noticed that there is a seller on e-bay who is selling Wedding Bells that states that they were unavailable for 33 years...This statement is most definitely not correct,as I personally was still able to obtain Wedding Bells from Redwood City Seed Company as late as 1978 and although the Wedding Bells that were revived from those old packs from Mandeville Seed Co,(Rochester NY),may account for a large portion of the Wedding Bells in circulation...Ipomoea tricolor thrives in warm temperate zones...so places like California and the Gulf area states would be prime climates for Ipomoea tricolor cultivars to flourish without any attendance from gardeners...
so some of the Wedding Bells may be originating from areas where Ipomoea tricolor would easily thrive unattended...

The cultivars Emma has mentioned are the 'cultivars',but the wild strains of Ipomoea tricolor from Central America,the Caribbean area,South America and as naturalized around the world may exhibit different characteristics...
I have seen pictures of wild strands in Spain that were a very shiny violet color...and the wild strains from the New World may resemble Heavenly Blue,but may also differ in ways as yet undocumented by MG enthusiasts...

The Summer Skies may still be flourishing and growing somewhere in a climate conducive to unattended thriving of Ipomoea tricolor...
I notice that Laurri has it listed in the PlantFiles as having grown it relatively recently(?!),and perhaps she could offer some additional information regarding her entry in the PlantFiles database...
I have not grown it or seen it myself since the late 70's...

The person in the UK known as MrMGMAN had tried to re-create Summer Skies from his own personal crossings of different Ipomoea tricolor cultivars,but his plants did not breed true and the people who traded for Summer Skies from him did not receive real Summer Skies,the plants quickly reverted to Heavenly Blue and that is that...

Emma - I can't help but be very curious about the origin of the Summer Skies that you are hoping to revive...
I know David Dumbrowski previously had it listed on his site and that his claim was based on the seeds that were in the past(!) offered by MRMGMAN in the UK...but his more recent offerring 'seems' to be based upon a 'different' source...

Cany Pink,by the way, is always(!) a light seeded form,and I have never seen nor heard of a bona fide dark seeded form of Candy Pink...
Candy Pink is a 'medium' Pink color,and definitely not a very dark pink...the throat is a solid pink...it closely resembles SOH except that it is a medium pink.

The early Heavenly Blue cultivars were the regular light blue and from this early light blue cultivar was culled an early blooming form by a Mr.Clarke,which was then called Clarkes Heavenly Blue...this earlier blooming form soon replaced the older later blooming form as most people found it preferable to have the earlier blooming form....

I noticed that about the same time that the Ipomoea tricolor cultivars Flying Saucers and Blue Star were being once again made available from commercial sources,that a 'new improved' version of Heavenly Blue was being made available...this was about 1995 and the improved HB was a darker blue than the earlier lighter baby powder sky blue,and that this 'new improved' version was increasingly/alarmingly replacing the older lighter blue color...

I had made telephone inquiries with the jobbers and was told they were carrying the improved version because they thought people generally bought anything 'new' and 'improved' and that the 'improved' form was what 'everyone' was currently carrying....
I personally prefered the older lighter blue color and proceeded on a quest to make sure that I had located 'enough' of the older lighter blue form to maintain my personal supplies...unfortunately my seeds have become inadvertently mixed and I need to do a grow out to re-separate out the earlier light blue form...

There is a big difference between the two terms 'self-pollinating' and 'self-fertile' and although the terms are inter-related,they are in many ways,clearly and very importantly differentiated....
The pollen from an apple tree can can be deposited on the stigma of a MG,but that doesn't mean that the MG has been fertilized...
A self-pollinating MG flower can be of different types of 'self-pollinating'...this can range from flowers that manage to allow pollen from the anthers within the same flower(!) to be deposited onto the stigma of the same flower without any help from outside pollinator activity...
A self-pollinating plant,may be a plant where the pollen from flowers on the plant,manage to deposit pollen onto the stigma of the same plant with help from wind,vibration,rain or living pollinator activity.
The term self-fertile can have different relative definitions...a particular flower can be self-fertile,an entire individual plant can be self-fertile,a cultivar may be self-fertile,a strain,a form,a variety and so on,proceeding into different degrees of taxanomic classification...but self-fertility strongly implies that the genes from the pollen is able to successfully fertilize(!) the ovules ...
the pollen may be deposited onto the stigma or can be inserted directly into the ovule chamber by advanced microscopic proceedures...
The term self-fertility is usually a relative one where flowers,plants,cultivars,species,strains etc,.are relatively partially(!!!!) self-fertile or self-infertile...
That is to say that a plant may have a 50% self-fertility(or self-infertility) factor relative to the pollejn and ovules...50% of the pollen produced would fertilze the ovule if it were to successfully reach the ovule,and 50% of the pollen from the same plant would be incompatible(!)...or the self-fertility ratio could be 75% self-fertile,or 25% self=fertile or 5% self-fertile or .5% self-fertile...

I have isolated individuals of Ipomoea purpurea which will not cross fertilize with any other Ipomoea purpurea plants...these plants are extremely highly only(!) self-fertile...the plants will only produce fertile seeds from pollen of itself !!! (,i.e.,the same exact plant)...a somewhat unusual situation for Ipomoea purpurea,since Ipomoea purpurea is usually very self and intra-specifically self-fertile...

Ipomoea indica can produce strains that are highly self-infetile,but,some of the clonal colonies will produce a few seeds from pollen from the clonal colony,because a very,very few rare pollen pollen grains from the clonal colony may be capable of fertlizing the clonal plants...
stray pollen grains from an I.indica source other than the clonal colony may also be carried by wind or pollinators and fertilize the colony,but I am mainly trying to convey the varying nature of self-fertility and self-infertility that can range from theoretically absolute,to usually varying degrees of self-fertility or self-infertility...
some cultivars of Ipomoea nil may(and definitely do) exhibit varying degrees of both self-fertility and self-infertility...

There are additional factors related to the ability to self-pollinate and self-fertility like the production of pins and thrums,premature decay of repoductive parts and other numerous factors which I will not go into alot further at this particular point...

Joseph (or anyone else so inclined) can take the helm at elucidating the terms inter,intra,infer,infra and related terms as it relates to specific individuals and their relationship of self and to 'others'...

So,I hope that something that I mentioned will be of value...

TTY,...

Ron




This message was edited Sep 10, 2007 5:13 PM

Quote:
(Joseph can take the helm at elucidating the terms inter,intra,infer,infra and related terms as it relates to specific individuals and their relationship of self and to 'others'...)

What do you mean by that???what he said was : Quote

(I do nothing to pollinate the flowers of indoor-grown Akatsuki no Umi...the flowers seem to pollinate themselves. I get a bunch of seeds, I presume they are viable.)

And this, Quote:

I defer to others on this topic. Enthusiasts like Emma and Ron can write books on the topic of MG pollination. I am eager to learn too.

What we ALL would like to know is wich MG:s are
Self fertil
Selfpollinated
Needs pollen from other mg-plants
Needs pollen from other flowers on the same plant
Or if it is different from/with variations in the same "group" of MG:s
Janett

I am not the one to contact on this topic. All I know is what I have seen in my Akatsuki no umi, that it makes seeds all by itself and I do nothing to pollinate the seeds. Sorry, Janett, but I am just an observer and not very knowledgeable on this subject.

Joseph

I know and thats why I made the question on Rons remark about you. And also what we wanted to know, all of us :0))
The first quote is taken from Rons post at the end of his post.
Janett