Help with Bermuda/wire grass

I need some advice please. I have a site for a future garden but there is tons of bermuda grass. I was told that I would have to round up, or some other herbicide, it for at least 3 applications and that would put me in mid summer before I could even plant. I would like to plant earlier than this. Is there anything else I could do? Could I just remove the soil and put fresh stuff in there? And if so how deep would I have to remove?
Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks--Michelle

Hi Michelle, here I am again answering something I only know about in theory lol! I am a new gardener this year and have learned so much here, I just haven't had a full season to implement it all yet.

You can layer newspaper or cardboard onto the grass and cover it with good soil, compost, peat, alfalfa cubes, etc with mulch on top. The newspaper or cardboard will drown out the grass and kill it, plus it breaks down, so it is a nice organic solution. Some people plant on this right away, while others prepare beds now and they are perfect for spring planting.

I did try this in August, however I did it wrong lol. I had dh til a strip for me (grass and all) and then I threw some garden soil and peat on top and had him run over it again to mix it up. Then I put wet newspaper all over it, mulched, and planted, punching holes in the newspaper. Obviously, their were some tough grass roots in there because it started growing up around the base of my plants (through the holes) within a week. I'll know better next time!

If you want to do fall planting, I suggest using the cardboard because it is tougher and then putting a thicker layer of soil etc so you don't penetrate the newspaper/cardboard.

Try a search for 'lasagne' and you will see some great info here.

Also, unrelated, have you heard of the alfalfa tea? It is wonderful, I highly recommend it (hey look, something I have actually tried lol)

Here is the best info on it I have found at DG, it is in the rose forum, but the info is useful all over the garden:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/533173/


Rachel

Bermuda grass is very difficult to remove, It will grow up thru asphalt (blacktop). If you are planting annuals the you should be able to dig/ rake enough of it out to control it during the growing season. I routinely do this and have large piles of it around the edge of the fields. It doe not get rid of it just reduces the competition so that I can get in a crop. Unless you rmove about six feet of soil, you will not get all all the roots and it will come back in your new soil with a vengence. If you would like a perfect stand of Bermuda grass., cover it with newspaper, balck plastic or the like which kills all the competition. It will soon poke through the mulch and grow like theres no tomorrow. Chemical are the only way to eradicate it, and even that is difficult. If your plot is surounded by Bermuda grass, it will re invade from the sides.

I do not care for using chemicals but make an exception for Burmuda grass. I use a product called Ornamec and have had good results. It is a selective herbicide and targets Burmuda grass specifically. You are supposed to be able to spray it on your other plants without harm but do not test that theory unnecessarily. There have been occasions when it got on other plants and they were not harmed but I won't push my luck.
I had to order it online (and I do not remember where I got it). If you can't find it locally just google "Ornamec" for more info. Good luck, Burmuda grass is the worst to control.

i will attest to it growing thru asphalt! nasty old grass. i am going to try an all natural product called Burn Out. i found it online but haven't bought it yet. of course, it's expensive. what isnt anymore? LOL what Rachel suggested is great for alot of ordinary weeds or even some tough ones and i am doing that too in some areas, but what farmerdill and ardesia said, that's the truth! debi

I have this stuff on all sides and can tell you there is not much to stop this grass but I have found that I spray with anything with Ornamec several times then I add my cardboard on top and add leaf mulch and then 6 or more inches of compost. So far ( and this is my second year in these beds) a few pieces still come up through it all but every garden gets a few weeds right?

I'm so sorry my advice isn't correct! I hope I don't have Bermuda grass, it sounds like you need to blow your yard up to get rid of it!

Rachel

Burmuda grass is evil and seems to be able to find those little cracks/crevices and re-emerge just when you think you have it licked.

However, I also believe it reseeds itself readily and that is often where these little re-occurances come from. That is why you can cover this stuff with all the cardboard, asphalt and nuclear waste you can get and it will still be there choking the good plants.
If there are grassy fields in your neighborhood, there will be Burmuda seeds.

I should have added, the Ornamec is concentrated and came in a large bottle. So far I am still on the first spray bottle I mixed up over a year ago. You do not need much of this stuff. The supply I have will last many years. If anyone is ever in the Lowcountry I would be happy to share (wouldn't want to send this through the mail).

Debi, let me know how the Burn Out works. All natural would be great!

i will. i'm getting ready to order it soon. (not much faith tho) LOL
Rachel, hey, you didn't do bad. one thing about DG, if you ain't right-you get told!!! LOL but in a nice way. i'm just learning too about gardening in this new area. a whole nother ballgame here. if you bring the dynamite, i'll supply the caps, we can blow up my whole "yard". ROF

Butterqueen/Rachel...actually, your advice is very good and does work with other grasses, it just doesn't work with bermudagrass.

I really wish we could stumble across some good organic solutions to eradicating Bermuda...I have piles of leaves/leaf mold, and wood chips for mulch and Bermuda is moving into it. I refuse to put those goodies in my gardens and flower beds once they are infiltrated with it. Waaahhh....! :>(

Htop says that this needs light to live so if you plant St Aug grass in the area you want to garden it will choke out the Bermuda in a year or two and then the St Aug is really easy to pull out and plant what ever you want. I am looking for St Aug plugs for the back yard (ft yard is already St Aug and I could cut plugs out but I am going to need twice the ft yard area sooo off I go ) Mitch

thanks for that tip!!! debi

Debi! I am insulted, you should have learned that I 'ain't right' months ago ROFL I just happen to have some dynamite hidden out by the fire pit, I'll be right down!

Thanks Shoe. I need to find out if I have this Bermuda grass before I waste effort cardboarding the yard.

As a bonafide member of the No Mow Grass Society, I highly recommend cardboard. Newspaper is insufficient against the bermuda. It biodegrades too quickly. A thick layer of cardboard takes months to biodegrade and it smothers out the bermuda. I've used it for all my yard--which is now one big botanical garden. I don't kill the grass first. I just layer the cardboard over it. And I make sure I overlap each piece of cardboard well. Most people do not and the grass grows up between the cracks. If any bermuda does get around my cardboard, I shoot it with Roundup.

Roundup works great on bermuda if you mix up thick enough. For the stuff I get at Lowe's, I mix it 6 oz to a gallon for bermuda. And it works best if you get a rain a day or two after you spray. The rain helps the plants absorb the Roundup. You can go to a farmer's co-op and buy Roundup in a higher concentrate so you'd have to use less of it.

I've been using Roundup and cardboard for years. If I do get bermuda in my beds, it has usually crept over from adjacent property and I wasn't diligent at spraying the edges of my gardens. But what I have the most trouble with is "fly-away weeds". My neighbors aren't diligent with mowing/bush hogging their properties. Their weeds go to seed and fly over here. So I'm continually pulling their weeds out of my gardens. Next year I'll use Preen to control that problem.

By the way, I get my mulch for free from a local tree trimmer. Usually it's fresh stuff, unless I take a truck to his house and have him load me up some of the aged stuff on his property. Despite popular belief, the fresh mulch does not burn my plants. I only put it on about 3 or 4 inches thick. So it doesn't heat up enough to cause any problems as it biodegrades. And if it is from Bradford Pear trees, OMG, the smell is divine! You might check with a local tree trimmer and see if you can get some for free.

NancyAnn

In my county the tree companies have to pay to dispose of their mulch at a landfill. If they have someone (in the the neighborhood where they are working) who wants the wood chips they are usually delighted to dump it at your house. I get at least two dump truckloads a year for free.

very good advice butterfly. i had a local tree trimmer in the keys who brought me chipped palms, etc. whenever he was in the neighborhood. i too used it straight off the truck.

I have both Bermuda grass AND St. Augustine grass, and hate both of them. The Bermuda grass is terribly invasive, and the St. Augustine grass isn't far behind. The St. Augustine seems to be more susceptible to chemicals than the Bermuda grass though. I'm going to try ardesia's Ornamec if I can find some online (and it's allowed in California).

The interesting thing is we have just one photo of Bermudagrass in PlantFiles: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/32203/index.html

For identification purposes, it sure would be nice to have some photos of the root, stem, seed head, and some shots of how it creeps into garden beds (just in case someone doesn't believe how invasive this plant is ;o)

Michelle,

i am relatively new to all of this but here is what me and the hubhby did to get rid of our bermuda for our beds...

first we roundup'ed the heck out of the area we were clearing. waited about a week. did it again. the grass pretty much looked like straw. then we put down landscape fabric over the whole bed. the good kind...not the plastic that does not let the water thru-the fabric kind that feels a little thicker but still lets the water drain. i made the mistake of getting the cheapy plastic stuff once and wondered why my front walk was flooding everytime it rained. turns out it was the landscape "fabric" i was using. as soon as i changed it out, no floods.

anyhow, we made sure to lay the fabric under whatever edging we were using as well. in the front we used natural border stones and in the back landscape timbers. then the hubby dug a narrow trench around each bed just wide enough to help with the edging. that bermuda likes to creep so this little trench really keeps it from growing inbetween our edging. every now and then if we notice grass starting up in our little trench we just hit it with roundup and it's dead.

lastly, top the fabric with whatever you want. we have red rock in the front and pine mulch in the back. both is working pretty well. the red rock seems to do a little better i think just because of the weight of the rock..it really chokes out any weeds.

the only pain i have come across is when it comes time for you to plant you must clear away the rock or mulch and cut away the fabric first. so you must make sure to make the area big enough so things will have room to spread. but i can tell you we have had ZERO weed or grass problems.

hope this helps.

Tia

thanks for all the great suggestions

Lulu-
I'd suggest physically removing as much as you can to begin with, (by tilling, or digging, and removing all the pieces).

Then, pIant your bed, and if you are not opposed to chemicals, I've use a product called "over the top'' with great results. You can use it as a control, as (and if) you start to see it pop up here and there.

I get it from my local nursery. You can do just what it says...spray right over the top of your ornamentals. It is a selective herbicide, and I've not lost anything to it, to date.

Just follow the directions...

Also, if you have bermuda as a lawn grass, I'd suggest changing it, lol...to just about any other grass...St, augustine is SO much easier to pull up and control...
-T

So, "Over the top" can be sprayed anywhere and we won't lose our plants? I have some that keeps trying to creep into my beds and my plants are so crammed in there, I can't use Roundup without killing something. Over the top sounds just like what I need. Out, out, darned bermuda!!!

Where can I get this Over the Top? I don't believe I've seen it at Lowes but then I wasn't even aware of it, so it may be there. Is it in a bottle or a bag or what?

BC

It comes in a concentrate bottle. There are different concentration recomendations, depending on what you are spraying "over the top" OF...
here is a pic:

Thanks seedpicker, I'll look for that. What an awesome product!! The answer to my problems! Look out, next year my gardens are gonna knock your socks off! You'll be able to see my PLANTS, not my BERMUDA taking over the beds. LOL

BC

That is how we feel about it, too. We've hired countless laborers over the years to try to get all the bumuda out...and paid to re-sod the yard with St. augustine.
It has taken many years of diligence, hard work, and sweat, to get it under control.
The over the top sure does help with the maintainance of it now that it is more under control!
I just can't stand bermuda OR trumpet vine...both are my garden nemesis!, lol...
-T

Tell me how you get rid of the trumpet vine. My neighbors planted some years ago and it's STILL coming up on the OTHER side of my house. If I don't keep my eye out for it, it will climb my walls before I notice it. Will it ever die??

Ugh, if you find the right product, let me know. We give it round up and it says "thank you, may I have another!", lol...
It keeps popping up 30-40 feet away and will re-root from even a tiny root piece, or bark scrap!
I hate the stuff...(love the flower, but hate the plant)...
-T

I am happy to run across this thread. I was considering using a mix of rye and bermuda to start a large lawn at my new place, but yall have put me off on that. I sure don't want to look to fighting this stuff for years.

Back to the drawing board.

Molly

Molly-
We overseed rye on our st. augustine for the winter each year. We love the green of rye in dreary wintertime, and love the st. augustine grass.

Glad you saw this thread before you actually PAID for this horrible stuff, and planted it ON PURPOSE!, lol...
-T