Need an idea for a tree/plant guard

Okay, I have a problem. I'm trying to populate the woods with native plants but the deer are making it hard as heck.

Especially in the cold weather, they'll come and consume most if not all the leaves and bark of newly plants trees. And push them over to get better access. Spray isn't really an option b/c it's pricey, I can't keep re-applying it and it doesn't always work.

Bird mesh isn't a good idea either b/c they and the elements wear and tear it and snakes get stuck in it.

Just wrapping the trunks isn't great either b/c they'll eat the unwrapped parts.

When planting seedlings, I bought chicken wire and made cones around them but I can't do that with saplings and shrubs.

Now, if I can get this problem cleared up (hopefully very cheaply b/c I'm planting alot!), I can move on to deal with the weeds covering my new plantings and such.

Is this on a big or small area.and are you male or female?. and do you have dogs?
Janett
edit. Is it a suburban area or is it "far" out in the woods. I know the questions sounds stupid but they are sincere.

This message was edited Sep 23, 2005 9:24 AM

Yes... those questions are odd. Lol.

It's both far out in the woods and along the edge of the woods. Either way it's a shlep.

I'm female and I have a dog. But I don't think I can hitch any supplies to her to pull. Lol.

the reason the question is so odd is because of what I am going to say. LOL
This would have no affect what so ever if it was in a more suburban area where animals are more used to humans and dogs.
This may sound dissqusting but it works.
Humans and dogs are natural enemies to deer and such animals and by "peeing" in the territorie of those plant you want to protect the most it will somewhat repell the deer.
In our contry we have fenced in many dangerous roadpasses, but you cant fence in everywhere. 'So they tryed this on the most frequent Deer/elk-car accident spots by scenting those spots with dog or wolf pee and after many years of testing the noticed that it WILL keep those animals from crossing the road. Had you been male the peeing would make it easyer :0).
It works because the pee scent stays longer than if you just walk the forest that scent blows and rains away but even if it rains the peescent stays much longer and the wildlife have an hereditary fear for predators.
I hope that you dont think I am totally wacko :0) but if you want to protect some of the most wunerable plants its worth a shot.
Janett

Spray isn't an option because it doesn't work. Never underestimate what a hungry critter will put up with to be able to survive. Chicken wire shelters do work but they are extremely time consuming to create.

So far, I have found only one product that is affordable that works.

http://www.treepro.com/

The Miracle Tubes are the tubes I purchase by the hundreds and I purchase them from here-
http://www.greenwoodnursery.com/page.cfm/3892

I do not purchase their stakes in favor of buying bulk bamboo.

I make cages from chicken wire that are easy to make.

Three sticks or posts in the ground about a foot from the tree or bush. take the chicken wire and cut it about 6 in bigger then the area marked out by the posts and just wrap around the posts! take the little bits at the edge of the wire and bend over and it will hold. Plus cheap and looks not to bad. In the pic you can see all my bushes and trees (thanks to all the wild life!) have to get one of these for the first few years of life. just make sure the plant is in the middle so you can almost not reach them - thus the deer and other little things cannot reach them !

Mitch

Those cages are very time consuming. The longest part is cutting them. I'll have to do this again if no other ideas work.

Those miracle tubes look great but they won't protect the leaves and parts of the plant above the tubes.

The tubes do not protect the upper most leaves but they are 4' tall and protect a major portion of the tree. The deer don't so much go for the leaves in summer to the extent that they will destroy it because there are many other plants in leaf. Unfortunately, in winter they go for the bark. Come to think of it, rabbits go for the bark too. If the little trees lose their bark, they are girdled and dead. It is their ability to strip saplings of bark that is destroying a forest's and woodland's ability to regenerate itself. It's the bark you need to protect.

Deer stand up on their hind legs to reach upper leaves so there is an actual browse line as pertains to what they can reach so please keep that in mind. I believe it is about 6' tall.

At 4' heights for tubes or even 3' heights for tubes, the most important part of the sapling is protected which is why the tubes work. At these tube heights, there is little or no risk of losing so many leaves that the plant loses its ability to photosynethesize. I have trees where the deer have come along and grazed off everything sticking out of the top of the tube as it if were a wonderful lush lime green ice cream push up popsickle and the plant enclosed has always lived. I am not alone in not losing trees in tree tubes which is why they use of same is being so widely embraced. Once the sapling is a little older, the deer and rabbits won't be interested in the bark any longer (not tender enough) and you are home free until the tree attains a height and size that interests them during rutting season. They seem to love to destroy 10-15 year old hickories around here but they can't get them all with the numbers I am planting.

Back to deer, the tubes are first choice around here because they are re-usable but there are nurseries and some conservation and restoration professionals that have gone for total exclusion. Deer can jump an 8' fence without any problems so they've been using 10' and 12' exclusion fencing around entire projects and properties to keep them out. That works well against the deer but doesn't work well against the rabbits so they must still wrap the little vulnerable trunks paying particular attention to not leaving any part of the trunk exposed.

Photo of a browse line-
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/pages/valleyindependent/deer/kings.html
Note there are no juvenile trees present. This is often times the case because the bark will ahve been stripped by deer during winter which is quite effective at killing off any seedlings and saplings that try to survive.

Due to the loss of natural predators, Illinois has a herd population that is 7x that which it was in 1904. I thought Illinois had it bad until I read these facts about Connecticut-
http://www.conngardener.com/samples/article4.html

Neat article on deer damage-
http://www.swmnga.org/facts.htm

Deer are my hot spot. I buy tubes of all heights these days to protect not only my saplings but other plants. For obvious reasons (they can digest them and are incapable of digesting introduced species that they did not co-evolve with over tens of thousands of years), deer prefer to eat native plants. Once the plant is established, it's not that big of a deal but until then it is nothing but trouble because we do not have enough cars hitting and killing them to keep their numbers in check around here.

I have a funny story, I used a few precut wire mesh protectors once. I got them for free. I think they were about 10" in diameter. One deer stuck her head down the enclosure to get at the plant and it got stuck on her head and she took off with the entire enclosure stuck to her head. I saw her stop in my back yard swinging her head frantically to and fro so I grabbed a broom and went out there to knock it off. I have no idea what I was thinking because I certainly can't outrun a deer but she took off and it got knocked off on its own.

Well, we have tried these tubes, spray & urine. The thing with the scents is deer will overcome their fear of a scent & you do need to mix them up. One other scent that is longer lasting is coyote urine.... It is dried & bagged & nasty smelling... It does quite well this year, next year? Who know about next.
Equil has covered the tubes well.

And We do plant sacrifice shrubs when we can... Hoping if the deer eat this, they will leave the lesser favored ones alone.

Finally, we have a little .22 Not to hit the deer, but to scare them... I am sure this is not going to be popular! But it is working in our other area.

Good luck

Tee he he, I tried the urine route and asked that our boys go outside and pee around the bases of trees but then they got a little too into their mission to save the trees from the deer and I started losing plants planted closest to the home (they weren't discriminating and kept peeing on the same trees) so I had to put a stop to that. Barring the dead plants left in the wake of their pee fest, the deer didn't seem to be bothered and would nibble here there and every where along the trodden path that they had been traveling long before we built this home. Perhaps if I had instructed them to stand on ladders and pee onto the leaves??? We tried the coyote urine too, worked for all of a few weeks and had to be reapplied every time it rained and as was mentioned by southernOhio, its effects aren't all that long lasting so the deer just come back once they are desensitized to the scent and destroy your plants anyway. Save your $75 plus shipping and handling on this as its about the equivalent of treating an Elm for DED. The coyote urine is a good deterrent for humans though. Got any neighbors you want to keep away?

Hmmm, "we have a little .22 Not to hit the deer, but to scare them... I am sure this is not going to be popular!" I know something more unpopular, we begged hunters to set up on our property last year and they took out two for us. I can't tell you what a relief that was. They gave us a pair of gloves from the hides and a decent sized hunk of venison sausage for letting them set up a blind. These activities do not bother me. What I do not like is the people who set up Jaws traps or poison them. I've got big problems with that.

ROTFLOL. Sounds like those deers are way to used to humans. Havent seen a deer close to my home since I moved here. neither the fox that used to be closed. My dogs have scared them away. Its not because they are hunted down its because of the dogs
I know there where here before I got this place, but not anymore.
I am glad that traps like that are totally banned in our whole country and the hunters are not aloud to use big dogs in all deerhunt. big dogs are only aloud when they hunt elk/moose
Janett

I have three jumbo dogs. I mean Jumbo too. Mastiffs and a Great Dane. All absolutely worthless. One barks but not all that discriminately, we're talking that thing is barkomatic and if a branch hits a window it barks, if a kid moves to fast it barks, if you close the refrigerator door it barks. The dog is goofy and I don't even hear that dog any longer I have become so desensitized. The deer look at me as if I'm a grazer when I am outside and go about their business. I don't even intimidate them any longer. The call to action was my girlfriend... who is a member here... walking up my nice long sidewalk and pointing out the hoof prints of a doe and her fawn. The deer had walked through my freshly amended garden beds up to my front door and had been eating out of the planters that flank my front door. Ya, I'd say that any time the numbers get so out of control that the herds can't sustain their own health that they get a little used to humans.

I can't shoot Bambi, I don't have it in me to pull the trigger but I can certainly support hunters by joining the Natl. Rifle Association and I did. I feel so out of place but no other way to try to get a grip on this situation other than trying to reintroduce wolves and the public would never allow that.

Wanna lend my big boy. I assure you the deer wouldnt even dare to look at your garden from the outside if you had him. He has so high gardinginstinct that he wont even let the crows land in the garden.
The neibours hens went in to my garden when they first got them, but now they stay away, even they dont dare to come in anymore.

Hey! I can make my dogs look mean. Just you wait until my husband gets home and then I can lift up their slimy lips to show their teeth and he can quick fast take a photo.

LOL. My dog doesnt look mean, But I can assure you that are you not a part of the family you better not knocking on my door.
He had a very bad first 4 years. puppieyear all beaten up. then lived in a dogshelter for three years. he is a cross Rottweiler/perro presa de canario and weighs 220 lbs.
Why dont you post some picture of your dogs in the petforum. love big dogs
Janett

I have posted photos in the past somewhere in these threads. My pride and joy is the Great Dane. She's an absolute stitch personality wise. The others are sort of slugs.

That's one big boy you have there. Funny about big dogs, I love mine... I really do but I keep ending up with them and what I really keep wanting is a Golden Retriever or a Tri-Color Collie. A Yellow Lab or an English Setter would be neat too. Do you have those dogs over there by you? Do you know what they look like? I have wanted a Tri-Color Collie and a Golden Retriever for the longest time but every time I try to order one, I am told some horror story about a large dog that is going to get put down just because nobody will adopt/buy it from the shelter so my husband and I end up taking home something we totally never wanted and ours all drool. They are great dogs with kids so don't get me wrong because I love my dogs. They are nothing more than family pets but I really wanted something attractive if you know what I mean. Something considerably smaller that doesn't drool would have been nice too rather than these 200lb+ models. The Great Dane is considerably smaller so she's ok but she's still very tall. I don't walk my dogs any more because people are afraid of them and some cross over to the other side of the street. Something about Brindle Mastiffs freaks people out. Sometimes when I go to the vet's office, people will go wait outside with their pets and my dogs are brain dead boxes of rocks for the most part that only want to socialize and meet new friends. I'd really like a dog someday that looks pretty.

Oh yea we have those dogs over here. some dogs even have been approved as thuroughbred longer than with you. one exampel is King Charles Cavalier. thats been considerd as its own race for as long as I can remember.
I grew up with a Samojed, and when we got him there were only 60 dogs in europe. I remember My dad payed 6000 swedish crowns for him that would equal about paying 60.000 for him today.
My stepmom where furious , but he said I dont give a.........what it costs but if a shall have a dog I dont want what everybody else have. that dog cost more than his new Chevy :0)
My former dog was a cross black Labrador/rottweiler and HE was the DOG OF A LIFETIME. you know the one thats always gonna be speciall. If I told him "carefull it a baby" I could put any animal to him, without him hearting it. He even carefully licked my daughters dancemice without thinking dinner.
I also raced a seagull lose in the apartment with him.the seagul was even aloud to eat his food.
Sorry CaptMicha that we stole your tread.
Janett

Sorry for hijacking Cpt M.

I love all of my pets and all of them are good with other animals and children or they would be returned in the blink of an eye. I do not want anything but good hearted and gentle dogs here because of the kids and their friends that come and go. I had one dog that my husband and I refer to as our Black Lab. We went to go pick up our new Black Lab with personality plus that they had raved about to us and the gal brought out a Black Pit Bull x Doberman with pieces of paper taped to her that said Black Lab. Even my husband laughed at that one because we knew we had been tricked again. They told us a tale of woe, and off we went with our new "Black Lab". That dog was rather interesting. Tons of maternal instinct so much so that the animal shelter used to try to get us to take in orphan kittens or rabbits or puppies or anything because she kept them all nice and clean and warm regardless of the species. I think we could have given that dog a snake or a rat and it would have mothered it. Ugliest darn dog in the world complete with broken teeth, ears that were torn and cracked from frost bite, and a ripped eye lid that wasn't repaired properly but that dog was good as gold with everybody. Yes, it drooled too. Saliva used to fall our of her face from the side of her mouth with the broken teeth. Other than her, our dogs are pretty much basic house slugs that are good with kids. Nothing remarkable about any of ours other than that we have a standing joke that if it doesn't drool, it probably isn't ours.

What are dancemice?

I don't mind at all.

Ginger, my standard poodle loves barking at the deer and chasing them but... they stop giving chase and will stand up to her. Ginger gets so confused at that point and maybe thinks they want to play. They look a lot like her anyways when her hair is short. Not much of a problem solver there.

Also, often I hear and notice the deer before she does. So much for any kind of a guard dog!

I should send my attack lovebirds after the deer. They wouldn't come back, they're vicious!

It seems like I'll just have to experiment with deer guards. Lumped together with humans and deer, native plants don't really have a chance.

If only we could bring back the wolves! But that's a whole other thread...

Dance mouse . you know the white very small mice small kids have as pets.we call them dance mouse/mice.lol
I lived close to wolfpack, just a mile from me, and they never botherd me. But some hated wolf enough to kill them all both adults and pupps. the wolfs here are listed as endangerd spiece here. we have less than 60 wolfs thats swedish, Its about 150 wolfs in the country per year but the others are temporary immigrant from neighboring counties.
Thats the only time I get in the "killingmood" its when people hurt kids and animals.
Janett

Ah ha, "I hear and notice the deer before she does"- I see you have a mighty fine guard dog. At least she tries to go after them. Mine don't bother any longer. They know the deer will run and are fast and all mine want to do is go out and pee and get back in the house to get a cookie. Pathetic.

Yes, we have dancemice at pet shops here. I've never had any at home for my kids though. Too tiny....and....we have 8 indoor only cats. Not a good mix.

Wolves are feared over here by the general public too. Sad, very sad.

CaptMicha, back to your original question, we have problems with deer and rabbits also. Many people here use the black drainage pipe, its plastic, flexible and can be cut easily. You buy it a lumber yards. People cut it to the length they want, then split the side and wrap it around trees to protect them. Sort of like the tubes that were discussed above, but a whole lot cheaper. It sort of looks like a dryer vent ya know?

Oh yeah, we use those @ the water run off spouts to keep the water away from the foundation.

They're big, they're ugly and cheap and I'll be able to spot them in the woods when it's time to remove them!

I gotta get me some of those!