Morning Glorys 2005 #17

Carry over from posting #16:

Ron, I don't have any other purps growing, and all the flowers I'm getting right now is from a single seed, so if anything new shows up, I have to contribute it to a visitor or genetics. I may skip growing them again next year, since the vine has taken up more than it's fair share of whatever it's grown on. It will be interesting to see what may come up next time.

Ron, I agree totally!!

OK these are what I am enjoying today :) This is growing in my Murasaki pot..........

Emma - I believe your Plum Frost looks just like this one!

This message was edited Sep 4, 2005 9:00 AM

Emma's Mauve Frost, just look at the copperylike colors glowing in these!

Emma's Lavender Mist..........

growing in my Akatsuki Special Mix today.......

Laurrie,
BEAUTIFUL!
The Purple with White Throat from PF seeds, I had quite a few of these blooming this year. And, I am so impressed with all of that shimmer.
Emma

Stacey,
Here is one of my first 'Joyce Cobb'.
I got so few blooms that I really did forget what the blooms looked like, so I made a wrong statement saying I thought they looked more like 'Milky Way'. Sorry about that.
Emma

Here is one I grew last year and saved seeds to grow again, last year it was only called "blue streaked mutant" LOL
Here is the mutt this year tee hee

I love to drool and dream about all the photos posted on the MG threads. Hopefully I'll have more varieties to share next year. Here's a composite pic of my success story with both MG's and DG. I got the seeds for these Rose Silk from Emma when I was a total newbie. I still consider myself a newbie but with wet feet.

Congrats Quyen, you got your feet wet and the pics look great!

Here is one for you again Emma

Tobihino this morning, gorgeous red color with smidgen of white on edge just a teeny almost looks like a drawn line around outer edges........

here is the "pink version" of the Tobihino, growing from same seed packet as last picture, but these blooms are more pinky in color

Just a couple..... finally got a bloom off one of the other 2 JMG vines... first blooms hopefully next pics will be beter
Here it is with the purple that is still blooming like mad :)

Janis

hmmmmmmm another 2nd try last one didn't post

last pic of it

I must say in the past few years I have learned not to put a lot of stock in the Labels on the Packages of seed we are getting. I am figuring we have about a 60/40 chance of getting what we though we were this year. But this year seems to be worst than any year before with the mislabeling of seed packets....I might have 60/40 reversed and so many of mine I lost and never saw a bloom so it could be worse than that. I know at first I thought I was the culprit and had not paid enough attention to my seed but I see so many others that are not getting what they though they planted.........

The Japanese Seed Companies make mistakes in packaging just as much as Burpee or Parks or who ever is selling and I think they are making more now then in the years past. I also wonder when you buy from several seed companies in Japan are we buying the same flower under another name?...... The seed packets below are examples from two different companies....and I have had flowers on the same vine that would have had differences such as this. Soooo....Give this some thought... we have no recourse when we are sent the wrong seed, since they are from another county what are we gonna do about it. We can only take the word of who printed the package and hope they are right. Then we question our own sanity when we have so many flowers that look the same or sooo close to the same with different names. And I have thought "Man How Many Packets of this Did I Buy?" I think what we need to do is try to keep as much as we can pure and sort out what’s what and go from there on our own. There are many of us that are serious about growing these we should be able to good job even without a degree in Botany.............LOL.............

Anyway the Photo Ron is referring to is Suigetsu and it was taken later in the day I would say around 11:00 or 12:00 noon. When the flower opens it is almost white throated and just had a hint of yellow. The yellow really gets dark as the day progressed and the flowers Blue darkens in the heat.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/537077/

I don't know about your seed packets but if you look at them (and it is not showing up here) you can see a yellow cast in the throat.....I am looking at mine and I can see it is there on both packets. Also the blue of the flowers look a lot different in the photos of the package, when grown and flowering here they were just about the same shade of blue....and some did stay lighter and some darkened depending on where the flower was growing in shade or sun............. So go figure.....
All I can say is just keep growing and we will figure this all out...

Laurrie,
Great Blooms!

On this one, which is the bloom that is SO incredible on the left side?
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1740529

Your 'Tobihino' http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1740557
is so awesome.
I wannahavesome seeds.

Dee,
I appreciate your comments about the JMG's not being exactly as the pictures on the seed packet. This is my second year of growing JMG's From Japan and last year was only about 4 or 5 different varieties.
Very helpful information for me to pay closer attention. Thanks for your input.

Emma

Emma that one on the left is coming from YOUR seeds of Plum Frost, I am just calling if for labeling purposes and picture purposes Plum Frost STAR, so I know when I gather seeds!!!!

Tobihino, is a shocking one! NOTHING like the photo in any respect! photo shows lovely white edges and a coppery orange like bloom! This is nothing whatsoever like the photo on packet, I definitely have at least so far, 2 vines, one the deep dark red color I posted, then the other one in same pot (from same seed pack) is more of a pink/mauve but same aspects as the red one in color, I will be saving all these seeds from the vines, need to grow again (you know that!) and will let you grow some out as well so we can see if they are the same again next year :)

Remind me later in season when they ripen please Emma.

Dee, I agree with your observations!!

~Laurrie

Dee - my thoughts about your impression
"I think what we need to do is try to keep as much as we can pure and sort out what’s what and go from there on our own."
is that I agree that is what we should do,but,I would like to re-emphasize that determining what is the allowable(!) boudary limits(!) of any 'pure' type,is going to be a challenge,and different people are going to have different perspectives on where the lines should be drawn...I would hope that some type of guidelines can be achieved and still remain a cordial community of people who enjoy this shared interest...I think we must be prepared for differring points of view,...to not get our 'backs up',if there are disagreements on the acceptable,and possibly variable characteristics of any given type and just try to arrive at reasonable reference points that we can all use as helpful reference tools...
Some types seem to have a much higher consistency than others,and so,just like doing a 'math' test,do the ones that are easier to do first,and go back to the more difficult ones later...and I would suggest trying to arrive at a listing of types that show the highest degree of consistency first...and that similar to the way that purebreed animals are classified,....some examples may be on the borderline of the standards,and the degree to which any deviation from the standard is present,may constitute the degree that the example in question may or may not be considered as a 'show' quality specimen,that is representative of the most defining features of the type ,...somemay be 'borderline' and others may be 'pet' quality to be enjoyed as such...
TTY'all

Hummm, many points to ponder and of course it would not be an easy task, many, many long hours could be spent on this project. But I think what could be done is to get a group together of serious growers that could set a "Standard". Take some time and figure out what would be acceptable and when to say something dosn't fit.

Now when it comes to the crosses we are getting now...........that is something else intirely and only time will tell what we really have. Then it would be the hybridizer that would name and document the addition. And this is something that could be done, since we already have some that are "created" such as "Joyce Cobb" and others I may not be aware of. I would like to see a list by the Hybridizer of how and what it was crossed with, that would be of intrest to me.

and another thought...
If we did start with the more Comman ones and work from there, what would make the common ones any easier. We have "Cameo Elegance" and "Cornell" that many think are the same. How many shades and shapes have we seen in the "Clarks Heavenly Blue". Where do you draw the line on the shades of lets say "Star of Yelta. We would need photos of Seed, Seed Pods, Leaves and anything else to help ID these flowers. So no matter where you start this could be a can of worms and I am sure there will be disagreements, but couldn't we work through them....
I think this would be a worth while task and one that would benifit all in the long run

What are your ideas about how to go about this?? Are any of you intrested in under taking such a task?

I am by no means any kind of expert, but I am willing to grow some seed and help document - would be a great way for me to learn!

Nichole

i grow morning glories from seed more often than anything else because they germinate and vegetatively grow really swiftly! i'm still trying to figure out the exact mechanics of hand-pollination but i'd love to help.

on another note - has anyone had any kind of real success with buying "gypsy" MGs online and them actually being "gypsy" mgs? i ordered a baggie off ebay and they ended up being just a regular old blue one.

scott

Scott my friend is growing Gypsy Bride from ebay and he loves it, said it is just what he ordered, I haven't yet seen his photo but hope to soon.

Dee, just for the record, 'Cornell' and 'Cameo Elegance' can easily be distinguished between each other. There are ways that they are easily identified. 'Cornell' doesn't have variegated leaves, and has a trait that is unique to it--wrinkly seeds. The seeds are missing a part of the seedcoat, producing a thinner shell which "clings" to the embryo, producing the wrinkled effect. If any two appear to be the same, I would say it's 'Beni Chidori' and 'Cameo Elegance', or one of the Sun Smile flowers that resemble it.

this is the "gypsy" i'm trailing up twine on my front porch.

LOL sorry NOT funny, but I have found alot of items that were NOT what they were represented to me as. Pretty photo none the less :)

it is a 'heavenly blue', right?

is it weird that it's still open... at quarter 'til noon?

This message was edited Sep 7, 2005 11:47 AM

Yes you definitely have heavenly blue, easy to tell by the forming buds & leaves and the yellow center (i. tricolor)

~Laurrie

Scott,
your Heavenly Blue is just 'Heavenly'.
I didn't get any of mine to grow this year,
but I did get 'Flying Saucers' Mutations.
So far all of my blooms look similar to this one.

Betcha you've never seen a 'Flying Saucer' with this kind of leaves.
Ok, Ok, --- they belong to another vine *~*
Air Potato, Dioscorea batatas....'I think'.
Don't know which species I have.
I need to get a positive ID on this one.
Maybe this link?
http://www.uaf.edu/grnhouse/genplants/dioscorea.html

Time for a new thread guys!
Morning Glorys 2005 #18

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/543580/

Emma,
It is air potato. Unless you get a heavy frost, kill it while you can. It's like Kudzu.
I've been battling it for years. My neighbor lets it grow unchecked and it comes over to my side. Now when I spray, some accidentally goes over the fence. Nothing else over there to worry about.

Thanks Jan,
I've been debating on what to do with it.
It already has some potatoes that are quite large.
I knew there was a problem with them in Florida,
but haven't researched on how they do in Texas.
No matter, plenty of OTHER great vines to grow.
Maybe I'll turn it loose in my alley.....*=*

It is a great fast growing vine if you want some quick summer shade and can grow it as an annual but anyone who does not have a definite freeze period needs to get rid of it.

Janis - you got it 'bubby'...
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1746497

kateliza_id - by the look of the flower and the very young flowerbud in the upper left corner above the lobe of the heart shaped leave,I would say it is Ipomoea hederacea,but(!),...I would still like to see the sepals at the base of the flower and any seedpods...if possible...



QuennB - Thanks for your comments in relation to the "Cornell"(Ipomoea nil) and the Ipomoea nil "Cameo Elegance" and "Minibar Rose"...


I think it would be a good idea to take note of this thread and the response that Terry has assured me will be forthcoming pursuant to some of our private correspondence ...

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/541704/

Dee - Regarding your last posting related to approaching the formation of official standards for some of the MG cultivars...my feedback specifically and in general is as follows...

The respectable formulation of Standards for other Families,genera and species of cultivars has not just taken 'many hours',but in fact many years and in some cases centuries(!)...
I am strongly against any 'quick fixes' that may be 'whipped up' in a flash,so to speak...any corner cutting will correspond to a degradation of the quality control of any standards promulgated...
The people who want to 'officiate' in clarifying cultivars must first be able to clarify the differences between the most common species(!) of Ipomoea that are both most often encountered and confused amongst MG enthusiasts,e.g.,I.purpurea,Ipomoea hederacea and Ipomoea nil...
I have very often seen these all mis-identified and posted to the database...and I believe that the ability to ID the most common species to be essential to the skills of any 'serious' group...
The qualifications of a botanist may not be essential,but none the less having an adequate knowledge of some(!) basic botanical knowledge in identifying the most commonly encountered and mis-identified species should be present in the qualifications of a 'serious' rulemaker...
It is noteworthy that at least some of the board members of many official cultivar registry groups have some official botanical training or otherwise evidence somewhat advanced botanical knowledge...should the MG group decide to ignore important botanical knowledge,then the standards won't be worth the paper they are printed on...

Terminology must be defined - The usage of terminology must be defined and adhered to...please co-check this aspect out by asking ANY SERIOUS group associated with correctly 'categorizing' any other type of plants or cultivars...

The 'crosses' are in many cases not true crosses at all,but alleleic mutations and the term hybrid as used in the general sense in botany, and how it applies in a strict sense in Convolvulaceae must be clarified...and again,for comparison...there are many plant groups where a term that has a more general meaning for most plants,has a different or more specific meaning for a certain sub-group of plants...
the term 'hybrid' may be helpful when used in the general sense of "F1" hybrids,but a true hybrid in Convolvulacea is an inter-specific or inter-generic cross,otherwise the end result of any crossings would still be considered just a cross...the cross could be a registered cultivar or not,but the usage of the term 'hybrid',must be clarified and fully understood...

My suggestion as I actually stated it "Some types seem to have a much higher consistency than others....,do the ones that are easier to do first,and go back to the more difficult ones later...and I would suggest trying to arrive at a listing of types that show the highest degree of consistency first..."


I used the term types,not 'more common' ones...and although there may be some duplicates and discrepancies in the more common types(!),I would venture to say that there is alot more consistency(!) in some types,than others...and the differences present in some types are most likely going to be alot easier to clear up than in some of the more recent and lesser known types...
I think it is important to be familiar and clear about the more common types, as well as attempting to be clear about the more recent less common Japanese types...or the result will be a set of standards that have been 'cooked up' by a 'pseudo-elite' group that actually evidences no degree of 'elite' knowledge or understanding...so be cautiously forewarned...

I believe there are both Pro's and Con's to this type of endeavor and I would hope that it would benefit more than just merchants...

Example - We have "Cameo Elegance" and "Cornell" that many think are the same....
I would be interested to see where the links or references are on this site or elsewhere, where people think these two types are the same...
Many 'culti-varieties' actually show evidence of being different species(!) and if someone can't tell the difference in the species,then forget about offering 'elite' standards regarding cultivars...


"How many shades and shapes have we seen in the "Clarks Heavenly Blue"

Relpy - Alot,but it is easy to tell Ipomoea tricolor from another different species...

A registered cultivar may be something that is intentionally or unintentionally created by someone or, may be a volunteer or otherwise found,but shows enough(!) consistent features to distinguish it from other cultivars...an intentional cross fertilization that results in a new cultivar has usually historically been required by registry groups to have the parentage documented...both the pollen donor and the gestational parent...
I personally do not believe that "Joyce Cobb" was created by anyone in this country, or found growing by anyone in this country,but was received in a trade from someone in China...


Serious growers would NEED to be able to grow out any cultivars and prevent them from being cross pollinated with any other cultivars...do any of the people who are going to participate in these growing out trials have the knowledge and actual physical ability to prevent cross pollination with any other different cultivars of the same species(?!?!)...I honestly think not...
I'm not interested to be unnecessarily pessimistic,just to be adequately(!) realistic(!)...as any 'flimsiness' in keeping the cultivars pure will invalidate the results by any professional standards...

Just some honest feedback of aspects to keep in mind...and I am certainly open to feedback on any points raised...


TTY,...

Ron



This message was edited May 13, 2009 7:04 PM

Ron, again thanks for your reply.