Interspecific hybrid morning glory

Does ipomoea purpurea cross with ipomoea tricolor?

I am of the impression they won't have sex with each other, however, I am not an authority on this group.

Joseph

MGMan - There are no published records of these ever crossing by either open polinnation or by hand pollination...

Both species are in the same genus, so they should be cross-compatible

Hi MGMan,
Well...There are many Families of plants where different species within the same genus will readilly cross-fertilze...but,Convolvulaceae is not one of them...there are about 25 inter-specific hybrids in Ipomoea...less than 5 of those are known to have occured by natural open cross pollination...all of the rest have been the result of alot of very focused intensive effort by professinioal botanists working at large agricultural institutes...most real hybrids are all closely related to Ipomoea batatas...believe it or not...but eventually you will believe it...why don't you hand pollinate whatever different species in Ipomoea that you think will cross...or even first try to duplicate the true hybrids that are known to be possible like Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea hederacea...or Ipomoea nil and Ipomoea hederacea...these last two are the closest genetic relatives that are in the genus Ipomoea but still considered to be in different species...check it out(!)...it only took Dr.Yoneda 2000 tries at his facility before He was able to do it in 1995...
TTY...

I wonder if crimson rambler will cross with flying saucers.I went on the internet and found a cross between a heavenly blue and a star of yelta morning glory. I think they have to be genetically related in order to cross.

MGMan - Heavenly Blue is Ipomoea tricolor and "Crimson Rambler" being Ipomoea purpurea...would you care to share the link to the site that mentions these two species as hybridizing....
I would very much like to take a look at whatever information is mentioned there...please do share the info on the website you where you see the supposed inter-specific hybrid ...

You are right about living things being genetically related in order to cross fertilize,but the degree(!) of relatedness is the issue in relation to different types of life forms...

Re-read what I stated above and please(!) share the site that has the hybrid between Ipomoea tricolor and Ipomoea purpurea as I would like to be one of the first in the world to congratulate the person who was able to produce a 'bona fide' (!) hybrid of those two different species ...

This message was edited Sep 27, 2008 5:13 AM

Go to Google images and type in hybrid morning glory. You'll see a dark purple flower. both plants were planted together and were naturally cross pollinated. you can also go to yahoo and type in hybrid morning glory with quotation marks. Scroll until you see a link that says"photo album".Click on it and scroll down until you see the flowers.

MGMan - I looked at the picture(s) posted here
http://www.alltrees.org/hybrid/
and here
http://www.alltrees.org/Personal/galleries/photos.shtml
The person states that thery aren't really certain about the origins of the suspected 'hybrid' that voluntered in their container,but assumed that it was a cross between the I.purpurea and the I.tricolor...
I saved and enlarged the picture of the suspected hybrid and it shows a very darkly pigmented stem,that is present on neither of the suspected parents and slightly tri-lobed leaves...again,neither of which is present in either of the parents...
My strong impression is that the suspected 'hybrid' is either an Ipomoea purpurea var.diversifolia which I have in a similar shade of blue and was present in some Star of Yelta packages as distributed by Park Seed Co. for the past several years or it may be an Ipomoea nil from the very common Early Call mix...many people have volunteers of MG's that look different than what they originally planted and the understandable assumption is that the new unexpected surprise plant is a new 'hybrid'...as many people on Daves and many other gardening related sites have experienced...usually posting a good picture of the plant can result in the more experienced gardeners accurately identifying the plant in question..,volunteer plants arise all the time in alot of different ways,so a different looking MG is no surprise to the people at Daves...
You seem to be 'convinced' that the Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea tricolor will naturally cross fertilize and you can start as many new threads as you want hoping to get a different and more 'accurate' answer to support your contention,to which I have already provided an accurate answer to...as I have provided to many(!) other inquiries like yours over the years...
Please do investigate further all you want as it appears my answer(s) to be insufficient to your 'inquiry'...I hope you find the answers that you are asking about from a source or experience that is better suited to your perspective...
Good Luck and Take Care...
Ron

Looks like Early Call 'Blue' Ipomoea nil to me too, Ron.
I've grown enough of them.
Can't see the leaves in the photo, but I will guess they are the Green tri-lobed.
Your answer is very detailed and accurate.
Thanks Ron,
Emma

I just did my cross between crimson rambler and flying saucers on Sep,4,2005.I hope it works!!!

MGMan - Good,I am always interested in MG experiments...which species did you use as the pollen donator or did you hand cross pollinate both species with the pollen of the other(?)...Did you implement some method of insuring that the flowers you pollinated would not be self or cross pollinated from any other pollen source(?)...
If you care to post a very(!) clear(!) closeup of the base of the pedicels,about an inch below andincluding the sepals of the flowers that you pollinated,after about 5 days after pollination...I will venture a 'guess' if the pods will last or fall off within 10 days tops...
TTY,
Ron

Can I go to any websites that tells me which species can and cannot cross?

Hi MG Man,
No such website exists!

You may not be aware of this - but Ron [RON-CONVOLVULACEAE], who has given you information in great depth, is a 'Walking Morning Glory/Convolvulaceae Encyclopedia'. The Web Site you are seeking exists inside Ron's brain. Additionally, Ron is one of a very few Morning Glory 'Experts' in the country.
Ron has taught me a lot and I admire and respect his knowledge.
Just thought you might like to know about the information that has already been provided to you.

Emma

PS: Why don't you jump on board with us on the 2005 Morning Glory Threads. We help and teach each other., as well as share our beautiful Morning Glory photos......Great fun!

MGMan- Emma likes to 'ham it up a bit',but check this out...I really did already share with you which species cross fertilize interspecifically...if you actually re-read and truely consider what I already posted to the threads here,you may see that information contained in the responses...


http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/541363/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/543357/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/400070/

RE:My second response to this thread
Hi MGMan,
Well...There are many Families of plants where different species within the same genus will readilly cross-fertilze...but,Convolvulaceae is not one of them...there are about 25 inter-specific hybrids in Ipomoea...less than 5 of those are known to have occured by natural open cross pollination...all of the rest have been the result of alot of very focused intensive effort by professinioal botanists working at large agricultural institutes...most real hybrids are all closely related to Ipomoea batatas...believe it or not...but eventually you will believe it...why don't you hand pollinate whatever different species in Ipomoea that you think will cross...or even first try to duplicate the true hybrids that are known to be possible like Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea hederacea...or Ipomoea nil and Ipomoea hederacea...these last two are the closest genetic relatives that are in the genus Ipomoea but still considered to be in different species...check it out(!)...it only took Dr.Yoneda 2000 tries at his facility before He was able to do it in 1995...
TTY...


Study all the different parts of this website
http://protist.i.hosei.ac.jp/Asagao/Yoneda_DB/E/menu.html
and learn somethings about MG's...
Good Luck in your studies...
Ron...

I've crossed ipomoea purpurea with ipomoea nil and it looks like it's working. I'll keep you updated on this experiment.

I also saw that the sepals had changed colors into red. when the flower get pollinated by its own pollen, the sepals usually stay green in the middle, but has red edges. the middle of the sepal is turning red. And again, the cross is between ipomoea purpurea and ipomoea nil.


Tony

Hi Tony,
I'm excited to see how your experiment turns out. You must have done this before, and I'm impressed.
May I ask which two blooms you used in the I. purpurea and I.nil.
Thanks,
Emma

I do believe that if the sepals are turning red it is due to somatic mutation or nutrition deficiency because hybridization efforts will only appear phenotypically in the progeny... F2 plants. This is the same reason hybridized tomatoes still have the fruit of the mother plant when first hybridized; the seeds within that fruit (female organ) will produce plants that are a genetic cross of the mother plant (one that produced the fruit) and the father plant (the plant from which the pollen came from).

also, plants of the same genus are organized by similar physical characteristics, most often inflorescence type. plants of the same species are linked due to genetic characteristics, mainly to indicate the ability to cross-breed.

hope this helps.

Scott, thanks for that info.
Emma

I crossed crimson rambler with a blue flower of I.nil.


Tony

Tony - sounds good...Hey Tony(!), I had asked you about a couple of things before in my post of Sept.6th,and I'll re-ask just for 'kicks' ,and that is...
"which species did you use as the pollen donator or did you hand cross pollinate both(!) species with the pollen of the other(?)...Did you implement some method of insuring(!) that the flowers you pollinated would not be self(!) or cross(!) pollinated from any(!) other(!) pollen source(?!?!?)..."

you see if you are 'lax' in the slightest degree about this part here> " insuring(!) that the flowers you pollinated would not be self(!) or cross(!) pollinated from any(!) other(!) pollen source(?!?!?)...",< then you could 'think' that you 'actually' cross fertilized the two different species that you are talking about,when in fact,the gestational plant was 'in all probablility' actually fertilized by the pollen of itself or the pollen of another plant of the same exact species...

... if you happen to get a chance... at some point...let us know about these 'somewhat' important aspects I had asked about,as I tend to think that the readers of this thread 'as inquiring minds'(!), would be interested to know...
Sounds(!) like you could cross just about anything(!) you really want(!) to...keep going(!)...now try the Crimson Rambler with the Heavenly Blue again...
TTY,...

This message was edited Sep 10, 2005 11:53 AM

I do hand pollination when crossing.I do it before the flower opens. the night before crossing, I cut the bud open and remove all the stamens. that following morning, I gather the pollen from the male flower and insert it on the stigma of the female flower.



Tony

Tony - Thanks for your more detailed response...I'm starting to have more faith...
Now(!),do you cover(!) the flower that you use as the gestational plant after you remove the stamens...as pollen from other plants of the same species can get onto the stigma before(!) you hand pollinate or after(!) you hand pollinate...
the pollen can be transferred by moths,hummingbirds,bees or other small insects(sometimes very small,e.g.,thrips) and if the wind is blowing strongly enough the pollen can get blown about by the wind...
it is important to cover the flower you use as the gestational plant to avoid any transfer of pollen from any(!) other source...
the thrips are very small and can easily(!) get onto a stigma even if most of the flower is cutaway and hummingbirds carry and transfer pollen on their snouts as they sip the nectar from the nectar resevoirs at the base of the pistil....
the insects that can act as pollinators are present around the clock and can get to the flower(s) before you do

by the way,which species did you use as the pollen donor...

TTY,



This message was edited May 19, 2007 2:23 AM

ron - in one of your earlier posts you were talking about how there are only so many tubes to transfer pollen to the ovary. if pollen from different plants makes it to the ovary do they create genetically different plants? i mean if two purpurea cultivars donated pollen to the ovary of a third purpurea cultivar could one of the seeds grow up to be a cross of the first and third and one of the seeds be a cross of the second and third?

i guess what i'm asking it is; if you hand-pollinate and then bag the bloom and more pollen gets to it could one of the seeds be the intended cross and one seed be the unintended cross?

naien - Thanks for your good question(s)...and the answer is a definite YES(!)...
Ipomoea purpurea usually has 3 locules,with each of the locules containing two ovules('eggs' that if fertilized will develop into seeds)...a total potential of 6 seeds per pod...

The 6 ovules in the ovary,could potentially be fertilzed by pollen from 6 different plants acting as pollen donors...just like a human set of fraternal twins could have two different fathers...even though human sperm contains 'toxins' that act to inhibit the functionality of sperm present from a different father...the one having the stronger toxin against the other will usually win out...

The pistils of Convolvulaceae species have a number of mechanisms(in addition(!) to just some of ones that I will mention here) by which it prevents pollen from the 'wrong' species from successfully fertilizing the ovules...
there are receptors on the stigmatic surface,along the stlye,in the ovary and on the ovule itself...
the stigmatic surface when detecting proteins of the 'wrong' pollen will fail to exude a number of substances that will cause the pollen to hydrate and pollen tubes to sprout...additionally callouses are formed to prevent the pollen from penetrating through the tissue...
pollen tubes must also be able to successfully navigate through a 'cavern' type area leading to the entrance of the ovule area,pollen tubes of acceptable species transverse the cavern with a very high innate ability to navigate directly to the opening leading to the ovule,whereas pollen from an unacceptable species demonstrate a range of navigational disorientation that results in the pollen tube variously filling the cavity with a tangled mass of tube growth before expending all of its energy reserves,during the very limited time period that is available,and therefore demonstrating a marked inability to successfully locate the opening leading to the ovules...

stigmas that receive the pollen from 'unacceptable' species will usually evidence an attenuated fertility,because of the antigrowth factors produced which in certain ways can act to inhibit the pollen of compatible species,as well as the pollen from incompatible species...

I hope that answers your question(s),but if not,ask again...

TTY...

Ron


This message was edited Mar 8, 2007 10:32 PM

naien - I wanted to add that if you bag the blooms and keep the bag on for at least 24 hrs,but 2 or 3 days tops...this should ensure that the pistil just pollinated is protected from both physical(!) harm and from any stray pollination...most pollen tubes actually grow within the first few hours(!) or less (20 minutes being documented!),and if the stigma has been pollenated with enough compatible pollen,then after a relatively short while,no other pollen will be able to fertilize the ovules,because the pollen tubes of fully compatible pollen will already have used up all available pollen tube transmitting tissue and reached the ovules...and if the pollen tube doesn't get to the ovules relatively quickly(!),before the flower parts start to undergo chemical senescence,then a plethora of various chemical changes will make fertilization impossible...
...just some additional afterthoughts after re-reading your original question(s)...
Hope something I mentioned is of some referential value...
TTY...

Ron,

Fascinating stuff.

You said that the pistils of Convolvulaceae species have mechanisms that prevent pollen from the wrong species from fertilizing. Are such mechanisms common amongst plants or is Convolvulaceae unusual in this respect?

-Kevin

Kevin - So(!), I see that you are still 'lurking' around...
Yes,the pistils of most higher plants would exhibit similar mechanisms,although the protein coding used by Convolvulacea is more complicated than many other Families that use a much simpler coding system...that is most plants use a basic 2 code system,as dispayed on the pollen surface proteins to determine tier one 'eligibility' of pollen from the same cross compatible(!) taxa(!),whereas Convolvulaceae uses the more complex 4 part coding system to determine the same 'eligibility' status before allowing the 'bachelor' pollen tissue to proceed any further,although the same type of protein sensors all along the 'multi-leveled' journey',have the ability to stop any pollen related tissue that may have 'somehow' been able to 'slip' past the first or any preceding level detector(s) system(s)...
TTY...

Thanks Ron.

So no matter how many years and generations of two common Morning Glorys that I have planted so close that they wind together, I will never collect seeds that will grow into a "Heavenly Rambler" or a "Crimson Blue".

Also, there will be no "Milky Saucers" or "Yelta's Bells" or "Flying Emma's". Nope.

No "Pearly Way", "Star of Star", "Grampa Gates", or "President Otts".

It would be neat to get a "Wedding Gift" but I am afraid not.

I am sure that I have missed a few.

lol...that was cute.

Kevin - Well,actually "President Otts" is around,due to their compatible nature...and the two very common species Ipomoea purpurea and Ipomoea tricolor have been around each other both in the 'wild' and as cultivated plants for a very(!) long time,and if they could cross fertilize,then the resultant hybrids would have surfaced by now...attempts to cross these two species by professionals have not succeeded,so far...,but Ipomoea batatas is now thought to have originated in two separate instances in two different areas of the world(i.e.,S.America and the South Pacific Oceanic Rim area) and Ipomoea sloteri exists as well as Ipomoea x leucantha...these species were the result of hybridization between very closely related species in the same series...I think some more hybrids will eventually surface,but will probably be related to the methods that Dr.Yoneda used to hybridize I.hederacea,I.purpurea and I.nil...I think that a hybrid of Ipomoea tricolor and Ipomoea purpurea may be possible,but not by any ordinary or the usual laboratory techniques applied...
Keep your eyes open though,as your MG patch may be deemed to be the most sincere(!) and the first one to have the 'Great MG'(!) appear in it...and you get to ride(!) with Snoopy as he dogfights the RedBaron too...(!)

"President Otts". Oops.
Thanks for keeping me honest, Ron.

In making interspecific crosses, there is a trick that breeders use that you might try.
With hosta and lilies (and probably many other genera, the hybridizer places some pollen of the same species around the edge of the pistil and than places the pollen of the other species in the center.
I don't know, but mixing the two together and applying it over the entire receptor might work as well. (And that might be the way to go, the pistil of MGs being so small.)
raydio.

I' ve crossed grandpa otts with milky way. the pedals are a periwinkle color but still has the red violet star.

Tony,
That's not fair. We wanna see it!
Can you post a photo to share with us.
Thanks,
Emma

The pistil size is relative to size and amount of pollen grains...I tend to think that wild species that show more genetic diversity would be more willing to accept 'unusual' pollen than the often times variously both intra and inter self-infertile cultivars...
Try anything you can think of...in-vitro fertilization should bypass many of the pistil related barriers...Test Tube MG babies up (!)...

This message was edited Sep 20, 2005 11:12 PM

I'm buying new batteries for my digital camera. As soon as I get them, then I'll try to take pictures.

I finally have pictures of my new hybrid.

Tony - nice picture...what are you seeing on this plant that gives you the impression that it is different from a regular dark blue Ipomoea purpurea(?)...just wondering...