I'm certain this has been discussed but I cannot locate a thread (there are many!) that provides the info that I need. If there is a grow light thread that answers my questions, please advise. I'd like to know what kind of bulb I should use and where I can locate free standing fixtures, my space is a little over 6 feet, and I'm thinking I should use a 4 foot light and a 2 foot light. Of course I've located lights and they are very expensive. Are there cheaper sources and fixtures and, if so, do they hold up and where might I locate them?? I'd like to order lights at this time so that I can start my seeds by the first of the year. TIA!!!!
Grow Light Source ???
My personal research showed two kinds to be most effective: Metal Halide (MH) and High Pressure Sodium (HPS)
A quote from this research: "Metal Halide (MH) lamps emit primarily blue light making them ideal for the vegetative growth stage.
High Pressure Sodium (HPS) lamps emit primarily red light which causes exaggerated flowering and fruiting during the plant reproductive stage. "
I have used neither, although I was considering buying either or both. I am in zone 8 in Virginia. My babies are inside for the winter, jamming away in our front window, acting like it is spring. This is a south facing window and they are loving it. I do NOT cut back like other fellow Bruggers, I just bring them in. (ever drag a 12 gallon pot with a tree in it?) I was going to supplement them with grow lights so that they would think the days were longer like summer. Well, our fellow Brugger, Hibiscus, changed my mind recently showing pics of beauties in the BASEMENT in zone 5 in OHIO! If Hibiscus gets blooms with a shop light, I am excited about what mine could do. Mine show no signs of even thinking about going dormant. They are making more and more new growth as leaves and branches. I will be very excited if I get a winter flush this year. :-)
Anyway, I am a newbie, so anyone who reads this, please wait for the experts to answer.
happy Brugging,
hugs, Karen
PS my search brought up a bunch
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=plant+growth+light+photosynthesis+lamp+bulb&btnG=Search
and one in particular
http://futuregarden.com/lighting/choosing_grow_lights.html
Just for growing seedlings, the plain old shop lights work very well. They just aren't free standing and you would have to make a framework for them. My husband used wood and made a frame work that was the right length to hold the light inside. It looks like an upside down U. The light hangs from chains that can be lifted or lowered to adjust to the plant growth. Really a cheap way to do it. The stands can sit on the floor or on a table.
Thanks Karen and Shirley!! Can you use the grow lights in the shop light fixture?? I mean, I know they are probably interchangeable but is the wattage on the grow lights compatible with shop lights?? Sometimes, if the wattage/fixture are too far off, the bulbs burn out quickly. I'm sure I'm making this way more difficult than it is, which I tend to do. I'm just going to Lowe's and buy a shop light and hope for the best!!
Sherry, you couldn't get any newer than me. Here is my setup and believe it or not I have it in my bedroom. The 2 light fixtures on top I purchased at an estate sale for $7 each. One has one soft white bulb and the other has 2, one warm and one cool.
The bottom over all of my bagged new cuttings, is a shop light with one each a warm and a cool hanging by a chain from hooks in the shelf above. Not very professional is it? It might work??
Jeanette
Sherry, I bought sun lights to put in mine, but other use one warm and one cool bulb in theirs. I still believe the key to success is keeping the lights very close to the seedlings so they don't stretch for light.
I have some with the sun bulbs and some with a warm and cool bulb and I can't tell any differences in the plants growth. I also have a MH and a HPS light but when I used them in the Spring they heated up the area too much.
One time I bought a small HID light, the kind that fits in a regular socket. The bulb is about $50. I used it almost one full season before it burned out. I won't put that kind of money in them anymore. I could have bought several shop lights and covered a bigger area.
I agree with you, Shirley. They are very expensive and I'm not too sure they're any better than the shop lights. Just more expensive to buy and burn. LOL
Jeanette, thanks, and please keep us posted, with photos, I want to see how long it will be before you have to move outta your bedroom!! Do the lights keep you awake at night??
Shirley and Linda, thanks!! I'm going to put my seeds in 6 1/2 foot window on the south side of my barn. When it's sunny, it gets LOTS of HOT sun, even in the winter, but of course there are many cloudy days too. My hubby's mother says she thinks I could grow them without any light but a long shop light isn't expensive, so I'm going to get one, just in case
BTW, while looking for the lights, which started at $130.00, ouch!, I came across a complete system, all plastic, for four hundred bucks!! I really got a kick outta that because the grow containers look exactly like the loaf, dome, tinfoil pans that Gretchen told me about. I bought tons of them for under $20, including plastic trays to protect the wood window sills. Thanks, yet again, Gretchen!!!
I use $8. shop fixtures. I have 2 fixtures per shelf. Each holds 2 lights, one warm and one cool. They are great. All bruglings are growing well, very happy and very green!
They could not look more healthy, Kell, thanks!!!
Something I read also was that with the HID systems, the bulb becomes weak and you are supposed to replace it every year. Duh....I don't think so...not at the prices they charge for them. I'm sure the shop light bulbs get weaker too, but it doesn't break the bank to go buy a couple of those. Kell, your babies look really nice.
I used mine almost all year. I think I stopped using my seed rack in July and started back up again in September. maybe I should change my bulbs? They are about $1 each. I think the warm ones were more.
I am about to put one in my bath tub. I have to wait till I do something my DH will be thrilled about, then I will sneak it in under the glow.
Are you going to quit bathing? LOL! We only have one bathroom in this little house, so I don't think I'll be growing plants in the tub. I've washed quite a few in there though.
Home Depot and Lowes should still sell the grow lights in both bulb and tube form. I took a piece of plywood and put two flourescent and three incandescent bulbs on it and keep it suspended on chains about 18 in. above my plants. It allows blue and red light to mix at a level that keeps the plants healthy and the heighth keep the radiant heat from burning them. Also by having it on a chain I can raise it for my orchids or lower it for my seedlings. There are many websites that show you a cheaper way of growing under lights and I'd research them if I were you. One of the bad points is with Metal Halide lamps is that they are EXPENSIVE to operate and alot of times it is what tips the cops off to marijuana growers. Mercury Vapor lights can cause distortion in the way your plants grow but are by no means as expensive to run.-Bagpypr
I'm sure you've seen this before. This was last year when I was adding the second plant shelf unit. Each shelf has 2 4' shop lights, each unit has a multi-strip outlet and a timer, 16 shop lights when fully operational. Right now, it's only about 1/4 occupied, so I unplug the light fixtures that are not needed.
Last month, I bought all new bulbs (all cool) and took the used bulbs out to the potting shed/garage where I'll use them as needed. I also have supplemental lighting in the gh because it is attached to the garage and is not in the best location light-wise. The electric co. loves me.
p.s., I've re-arranged and cleaned up the room.
I'm with the majority here. I use the el-cheapo, 48" double shop lights with Aquarium tubes. I'll be switching to plain old flurouscent warm and cool next time though. I may even use just the cool ones for seedlings.
Shop light here too, one warm and one cool. It worked great last year for seedlings.
You just need to keep them close to the seedlings to be most effective.
Bonnie
Hey Linda, is that your red butt? You could say you were impersonating Santa's but it is too small! LOL
LOL, Kell - yep, that's it. Some people think it's funny to slip up on you when you're not looking.
Hi, This is my first post, altho I've been a member for over a year. I made PVC plant stands and used Walmart fixtures. The least expensive fixtures I've found were about $7. at Walmart. Here is a link to the directions for my plant stands.
http://www.carlnet.org/~ttsdaly/plantstand.html
It was very easy to make and only cost about $30. If you get the PVC T's in contractor packs they are a lot less expensive than getting them singly, since you need 40 of them.
I use both cool and warm bulbs, but mostly cool for seedlings. I put them very close, about 2"-3" away & have them on from 6 am til midnight (on a timer). I try to get the packs of ten bulbs. They are usually a better price that way, since you need 8 for the stand.
I had 3000 seedlings EVERYWHERE last year! I still can't believe I had that many. I learned a lot, though.
Things I learned:
* Don't start impatiens too early, they are very impatient! I had to let many of them die because I couldn't get them potted up.
* Make sure to give them weak fertilizer after they have grown up a little.
* Don't leave the plastic lids on too long. (I used nursery trays with plastic lids & metal roasting trays that had plastic lids.)
* Lots of other things I can't think of right now.
I started the seeds in baggies of a little sand & when they sprouted, I put them in cell packs. Hope you find some of this useful. Do good!
Linda, I like your metal plant stands. They are really nice.
I love "listening" to everyone. Hope I can find this thread again.
Pam
Pam, if you click the "watch this thread" link, it will come up every time new information is added. The metal plant stands were from Lowes (I'm sure many other places carry them too), and I liked them because they were 48 inches wide, same as a shop light. the shelves can be adjusted in 1" increments so I have some closer together for seed starting and some farther apart for taller plants. Since the two units are alike, I used one shelf from the other stand, so now I have 1 unit with 5 shelves closer together and one with 3 farther apart. Of course, the lights are on chains so you can adjust within the shelf. This is my winter entertainment.
A lovely butt it is! LOL
Welcome Pam! For a minute I thought you were saying you had 3000 brug seedlings. I was in awe and was already thinking ahead to the excitement of seeing them all bloom!
I have a PVC stand, I love it. I am going to get a heavy duty plastic one they have at HD to put in my bathtub this week. My husband is going to kill me.
Yeah! I found you!
Thank you for the welcome! And the watching thread tip. That helps alot.
How do your brugs do starting from seeds? Also if you have Datura? I started some B. sanguinea & B. suaveolens last winter. A few sprouted but didn't do very well, finally dying. I neglected to fertilize them & left the plastic lids on too long, AND didn't pot them up either. Pretty well a death sentence I guess. I still have some seeds to start this year & will try again. Any tips?
I had a few D. meteloides come up. One even grew & bloomed! I brought it in for the winter but it is already getting pretty leggy. If I can just nurse it through the winter, I'll be happy.
Are the brugs harder to start from seed than daturas? That was my experience but that doesn't mean much. : )
Thank you! Pam
Welcome Pam. Hope you will jump in here often.
Shirley
I bought my shop light today, 48 inches. However, Lowes did not have 'warm' lights or 'cool' lights or grow lights. What the heck are warm/cool lights and where can they be purchased. Also, about how far from the seed should the lights be??
I put these under lights today. I turn the flat upside down and put the seedlings on top, raising them to right below the lights.
Cool, Linda!
Sherry -- I'm so glad to see you here today. I almost posted here earlier, wondering about you as I hadn't seen you post in a couple of days, but my screen locked up, then I had to go to church (our non-denom church has become so big they have two services on Saturday evening and two on Sunday morning, and we love going Sat to the early evening service). Anyway, glad to see you back! The warm and cool have to do with the color spectrum emitted by each. The warm tubes emit "warm" colors and the cool emit "cool" colors. Blooming plants have to have all the colors of the spectrum in order to bloom. Seedling should do just fine with only cool bulbs, as you'll be moving them outside before they begin developing buds. I hope this helps :)
They look great, Linda!! I hope it won't be too long before I get mine in their loaf pans. Actually, I'm hesitant to start them too early, for fear they will get too big, too quickly. I plan to put between 16 and 32 in tomato boxes and they grow oh so fast, whew!! BTW, Linda, I failed to tell you that I received the Messengers. Did you water in your seeds with it or use it some other way with the seeds???
Gretchen, you touch my heart, it is very nice to be missed. November was difficult for our family - my grand children lost their last and only great grandfather they have ever known and our daughter's children lost their other grandmother, two days later. It is difficult to believe that it's been almost a month and I've been on the go the last two weeks, catching up and, guess what, if I don't get a move on tomorrow, I'm not going to get lots of stuff in the greenhouse. Thank you so much Gretchen, I sincerely appreciate your friendship!!
Sherry -- I'm so sorry to hear of your recent losses! That's never easy, but it must be even tougher at this time of year -- God bless you!!! You and your family will be in my prayers... And, please get your kids and grandkids to help you move your plants! None of us want you to hurt yourself!
Sherry, Messenger will not help with the seeds (I don't think). It is my understanding that it works on actively growing plants, so (even tho I have not yet), I plan to use it in the gh. Maybe I'll get that done today.
I've been growing under lights for almost 10 years. I use 4 foot shop light fixtures with one 40 watt cool white bulb and one 40 watt warm white bulb. I mount the fixtures from chains so that the height can be adjusted. Keep the lights 2-3 inches above the plants. Replace the bulbs every 2-3 years. (They are still good to use in the shop or garage) This works as well or better at the more expensive ones and cost a lot less to operate.
Paul
Sherry, I'm so sorry. I wish there was something I could do or say to help make the pain go away.
Sherry, I use the messenger as a spray for my plants. Not a soaking/dripping spray, just lightly over the tops of the leaves. I'm going to start using it on some of my brug babies in the house just to see what will happen with them. The biggest problem that I've found with it is that at that time of the year, I don't have enough plants to use a gallon of spray, so I will cut it back to a half gallon and use the rest of the powder in three weeks. That is still going to be more spray than I need.
Thanks Gretchen and Brugie and those of you that posted me privately. Our losses were not unexpected, so brugs have given me a wonderful diversion, which I have mentioned. Gardners tend to be good people, even if they don't know the individual in person and this forum is filled with kind, caring people and I will be eternally grateful to have been a part of DG for the last year. Thank you all for being there!!
I just got out of a soaking bath, I'm whipped but I got most everything in the greenhouse. Are you all already using heat??? It was 70 degrees in mine. Has anyone had difficulties getting their bubbler tube to stay under water and bubble??? Is there a trick?? My grands and I became very frustrated getting the T-valve set up to the two additional containers and getting them all to bubble. Of course the 2nd one started working the minute we turned the blue bubbler over, so the point, pointed down, duh, we all said. Here's some good news - all my cuttings from DonnaB have rooted, yeah, wow, I'm a happy camper. And, get this - every stick in the bubbler appears to be rooting and there is no mush or fungus or mold. This was really fun - in one of the containers, I had some really small sticks of stuff I tossed in, that weren't tagged, except I know they are pink. Well, many fell down under water and, guess what?? They all put on leafs underwater and they were poking out all green and growing, so cute!! Our weather will be here tomorrow night, so I have one more day to get it all done and the grands will be at school. Cross your fingers!!!
Sherry, do you have a bubble stone on the tube? That adds a little weight. I had trouble with mine too, with a T split going to 2 containers. I finally found that the water level in both containers has to be the same height. Somthing to do with pressure/resistance.
I was looking at mine today. All are putting out roots, and no rot or mush. YEAH