The Dead Lawn Society

EEEEEEEEEEEEwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Ick!

Do they blow up and pop like ticks do if you put them under a lighter flame? I'm thinking Timone and Pumba here and that big plate of grubs they offered Simba. Yum yum!

I wouldn't be able to admit I was a contestant. LOL

I guess you can count me as a member. I am gradually eliminating the lawn because my DH hates to do any yard work and I'm too fed up to keep up with the neighbors. Half of the front yard was already started that way although pachasandra and wintercreeper have to be dealt with and the other half, while it still has a bit of lawn, is a cutting garden. The back yard has the pond and I will be slowly creating a patio there and putting up a greenhouse. There is a fairly large planting of small thin evergreens that were half dead that is coming back and I'll be removing lots of burning bush and viburnums. Lots of trees. Too many trees. Close to the house. Surrounding the power lines. Add five years to the development plan. Virginia Creeper planted by the last owner. Add five more years to the plan.... Jessamine

The burning bushes are real easy to spot in fall thanks to that brilliant fire red color! I got the last of mine just last month. Even the little seedlings had no where to hide! He he he!

The Virginia Creeper around me doesn't seem to be an issue. I suppose I better watch it huh? What kind of pachysandra do you have?

I finally got some pictures of my back yard "Lawn Reduction Plan."(The front lawn was eliminated completely about 2 years ago.)
I had to wait until the oak leaves fell...
Now I will let the leaves become the bottom layer of my new beds. I removed the leaves from the driveway and added them on top. Since oak leaves form a mat I didn't need newspaper.

I was thinking of getting some burning bushes on purpose. Is that really a bad, bad idea? I love the color in the fall. On the other hand I let some Virginia Creeper live where it appeared in the border garden.... NOt a good idea.

All of the areas with leaves will be the beds, the green will be the paths and will probably be covered with pine needles eventually.

Blooms I love the skunk story!

Boy those Live Oaks are pretty. I have seen some beauties in Louisiana.

I'm replacing my small burning bush (and a barberry) with "wine and roses" Weigelia. There are so many shrubs that have nice fall color. The viburnums are nice and many have berries for the birds. I like Cranberrybush Viburnum, and Korean Spice viburnum- the flowers smell heavenly on that one- and the leaves are red in fall. another favorite is Blue Muffin- a small one, I just got one, not sure on the fall color.
Oakleaf Hydrangea has a beautiful, rich red fall color.

Oh oceangirl! Beautiful backyard! I see your oak leaves all spread out smothering away! Good for you!

Hi Blooms, probably not a problem child west of the rockies yet although I have friends in Oregon who planted them and claimed they had to pull thousands of seedlings. Around here, it's a big cause for concern as it gets in and overtakes understories.

Here's a little blurb from the Nature Conservancy-

http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/alert/alrteuon.html

Equil, oceangirl, I will consider an alternative as suggested. I do see some burning bush around town and have not seen signs of spreading. But out here the only places to spread to are already over crowded stream beds and river sides. Where the tammys already reign supreme over natives.

Tamarack (Larix laricina), is a well behaved native east of the rockies. I've always heard these referred to as tammys before out my way but I'm thinking you are referring to Tamarix ramosissima and T. parviflora? We've been calling that Tamarisk and Salt Ceder out here. If that's the plant you've got, that thing is to the west what Buckthorn is to the Midwest. Yuck!

There are non fruiting cultivars of the burning bush hitting the market. They are far and few between but they do exist. Burning Bushes are getting a lot of much deserved bad press out my way so I have been told nurseries are focusing their marketing on the west in anticipation of them ending up on noxious lists out my way. Lucky you.

Your clime is considerably different than mine. If you can't find something that knocks your socks off, why not just plant the burning bushes?

A plant that I stuck in the ground here just this past year where I had once had a burning bush was Diablo Ninebark (Physocarpus opulifolius 'Monlo') from your side of the Rockies. I had already planted a considerable number of Eastern Ninebarks (Physocarpus opulifolius) which are native in my range but wanted something that had a different colored leaf for year round appeal at the base of a bird feeder. The Diablo has a deep burnt red/purplish leaf year round. There's another Ninebark out there, P. capitatus. I don't know much about that one. Other than that, I did plant several Cranberrybush Viburnums and Oakleaf Hydrangeas to get that red fall display. Sure do wish I could remember where I planted the Oakleaf Hydrangeas.

Equil, Tamarisk - the deadly far east invader of every spring, seep, creek and riverway in the west. We call them 'Tammies', sorry for confusion. I will rethink the burning bush - altho the red leaves in the fall would add a splash in the yellow out there, we have enough exotic thugs.

As the guy from the CDC said 'birds fly'. The Redbud in my back yard got here via the avian express. So also the dozen or more Virginia Creepers. Don't really want to see a burning bush at the back of Moonflower Canyon.

DD planted a Cranberrybush Viburnum this fall, if it does well at her place that or the Korean Spicebush that OceanGirl mentioned.
hmmm wonder if my local nursery carrys our own Devil's Ninebark?

Blooms
You might be able to find Physocarpus monogynus in your area too.

The ninebark sounds nice equi, I have to look into that one. Does it get very big?

Tee he... my Diablo Ninebarks were newly planted this past year. There are three of them and they are only about 2.5' tall. I have no idea how they will do here in my region. I suspect they should be fine but we'll see. The Eastern Ninebark was planted last spring as bareroot and it didn't survive. There may be one straggler out there still clinging to life but doubtful after the floods this past spring and then the drought.

Bloomswith,

Fothergilla Gardenii looks better than Burning Bush in the fall, IMO. Check it out! April

April, I looked it up in PDB and it gets nice fall color, thanks for the hint. Have you guys seen Julie from Israels Photo Forum pics of her not grass lawn? no mowing and it looks great. I'd think it'd get in the gardens but it doesn't look it.

Blooms,
I planted two E.alata (burning bush) for DSM (there was already one down by the chicken coop, but too big root system to move). Got from a nursery. They are valued and apparently not invasive in the north country! I loved seeing them in the towns and cities of the Adirondacks in the fall -- and that's with all the color that occurs there naturally!

So, the question would have to be, HOW COLD and for HOW LONG does it have to get to reduce or eliminate the danger of uncontrolled spread? Maybe the usda site would have some leads... tomorrow (too late to start another google!)...

It is I suppose also possible they are only selling and planting non-fruiting versions... it was price-y enough, as I recall...
~'spin!~

BWV, where are Julie's photos? Here is a picture of a no mow lawn done with mini-mondo grass.
That's if I remember to post it.

This message was edited Dec 5, 2004 6:11 AM

No mow yard in Jax.

That's cool sugarweed. Can it take foot traffic? Waht are the watering requirements for that type of lawn? Sorry to ask so many questions.

I don't have to try and kill my lawn, the local power company does it for me & they don't add anything to my power bill in the process.

I really don't know, but "Monkey Grass" is pretty sturdy and I think it's not thursty. The back of this home opens to the Trout River. They could even water w/ river water. My mini-mondo thrives and self seeds.

I may need to join next summer! Looks like the area defined as "my" garden area has been seeded with grass. I plan to sell my lawn mower in the spring, and refuse to have grass to cut.

I think it's dichondra Julie [Salvialover] has in her yard. Here's the post I was referring to. It's her Wizard of Oz yard for her kids.

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/466119/

Crystalpin
Not invasive in the north county? You nursery is seriously misinformed. Burning bush is reported as hardy to at least zone 4.

It's not a question of how long and how cold as much as that *any* seed produced is being spread by our avian friends far and wide. As Blooms was told, 'birds fly'!! "Seed production is prodigious. Birds relish eating the fruit, and seeds passing through their digestive tract are viable. Seeds dispersed this way germinate easily and spread the infestation to other areas."

But even non-fruiting or sterile cultivars produce pollen (non-fruiting dos not mean non-flowering) that has the capability of pollinating non-sterile cultivars of burning bushes.

Here is additional information for you.
http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/alert/alrteuon.html

To which: I have to go out and cover an area of unwanted 'cheat grass' with a large black tarp. so_HELP_ I was just wondering, as it's now above freezing and the grass is freshly wet with snow melt - IS NOW A OKAY TIME TO USE ROUNDUP ON WEED GRASS? And then I could cover it with the tarp later. anybody with real knowledge or experience? LMK ~Blooms


This message was edited Dec 5, 2004 1:41 PM

Yes, Blooms, It's rather chilly to spray roundup now. You can, but effectivenss will be much higher in warmer temps and with shorter translocation time. But my real knowledge and experience comes from having a pesticide applicators license ;^)

I didn't think that responding to a direct and specific question in a thread was taboo but that publically chastising someone was (tsk, tsk)......

Hi Blooms, if you've got freshly melted snow I don't think your temps are anywhere near the range requisite for effectiveness of Round Up. You can still use the tarps if you don't mind the look of keeping them where you lay them for a while, quite a while. I really have found that smothering will kill just about anything given time.

I have a correspondence in a folder in my plant e-mails from one of the folk over at Monsanto in the test labs. Let me see if I can dig it up and post it here.

Hi Crystalspin, I stand corrected, Burning Bushes have begun to be a cause for concern out west. People are capitalizing on this "window of opportunity". You might want to take a look at this web site-
http://www.freeplants.com/frame%20set.htm
You will have to log on and be annoyed with a few adds but this guy claims to have made over 25k peddling his Burning Bushes from his home and if you scroll all the way down to the bottom of his page you will find something that is so sad yet so representative of the reason this plant will become an even greater cause for concern in many areas-
"BUT NO MENTION OF PLANT PATENTS OR NURSERY CERTIFICATION OR NURSERY INSPECTIONS OR , OR, OR..."
Many people do know this plant is a problem. So disheartening considering there are so many who don't who are being exploited with all the marketing hype and splashy photos of the plant.

This statement made by caron is correct, "But even non-fruiting or sterile cultivars produce pollen (non-fruiting dos not mean non-flowering) that has the capability of pollinating non-sterile cultivars of burning bushes." This is one of the reasons why we are having such issues with Calleryana Pears. Those Stepford Wife Pear things that there are over 25 cultivars of with more in the works.

Bloomswithaview,

You can do tons and tons and tons with the plants that are native to your area....it's called xeriscaping. One of the people I buy my native plant seed from is in Utah. She was originally from this area, then moved out west to Utah. No, it won't be a prairie, but it will be it's own beautiful thing! Consult with your DNR, they will be happy to help you. I love the landscape in the west, it's awe-inspiring. If it wasn't so hot, I'd be out there in a New York minute! I dug up some more of my front yard this fall, and re-planted a bunch of grubs, LOL! Still no sign of skunks, unfortunately. I think rabies and Rte. 12 have taken its toll on them. Got lots of huge possums, though. Did you know that possums are the only animals that keep growing their entire lifetime? april

Well, I've been doing just that so far... letting the natives move in on their own or with my helpful hand. Brought home some native fall aster seeds and spread them around this fall, the bee balm and globe mallow are spreading around the lot next door on their own / with an occasional spritz to encourage development. And I do mean occasional.

I have 2 volunteer native junipers in the bed next to the house. Will be moving them out into the lot in the spring, as they are way too close to the house. This is one of three mallows that have planted themselves right next to the cultivated beds... they benefit from the water, grow larger and bloom longer than the ones out there on their own. oh so pretty.

Oh..those mallows are puuuuuuuuurty! April

Actually, much prettier than the pic -- hard to capture -- such high contrast, bright color. It was a good year for them, last spring!
~'spin!~

I just discovered this thread and yep, I've got a dichondra no-mow lawn. The very same that Blooms posted a link to above. I absolutely love it.

It DOES get into the beds, but this doesn't need to be a problem. If you put plants that can stand their ground, it will work really well with the dichondra. My dichondra just "peppers" a few of my plants and looks nice curling into them gently at the edges. Also, unless you are adding a very dense and strong-willed ground cover, plants need to be 12 inches tall so as not to be drowned by the dichondra. For example, the mature gazania that I transplanted to that garden are doing well several months later. But the baby gazania that I added to the group were swamped very quickly after I put them in....they just weren't big enough to stand up to the dichondra. My low growing 25-30 centimeter tall Cuphea hyssopifolia is right in the thick of the dichondra and is thriving better than it ever did anywhere else in my garden.

Can you tell I love my dichondra garden? :-) I've had it in since July and have never once mowed it. When my kids are grown and play less in the garden, I'm going to rip at least half of the grass out of the garden in the lower garden (our garden is in 2 levels and the dichondra is in the upper garden)....and dot plants and bushes all over that square. When DH is too old to play football with the kids in the narrow strip, I'll attack the grass there too ;-). hehehe I hate grass....I'm allergic to it no less and I itch for hours everytime I end up needing to sit on it to weed this or that. So I'm all for ridding the garden of the awful stuff :-).

-Julie

Here's a link to a thread with a lot more photos of my dichondra garden (and the rest of my gardens). These were taken at the end of November, so please try to imagine the garden in full bloom in spring and summer rather than the sad state much of it is in these pics LOL

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/471296/

I just love the greenness of it and that kids can play on it.

Sugarweed:

You offered a while back on this thread live oak seedlings. If you have some you want to get rid of, I'd love to have some. We have live oaks in the area here, even one on our lot. But the squirrels gobble their acorns up and we've had NO seedlings. I'd love to leave at least a few on our 2 lots to mark our passing this way.

LMK if you want to trade for something, or I'd be happy to pay SASE costs. We'd love to have some seedlings!!!

Thanks!
Judith (in Tallahassee, FL)

Blooms, I humbly request to be admitted to your dead lawn society. What little grass we had, I have managed to kill off for the most part near the house.

For the sake of community, in a totally suburban area, DH does faithfully "mow" the 12" strip of St. Augustine grass next to the street, in full obeisance to the rest of our widely grassed community.

You can spot our house easily. It's the only one that is "wild" in front, and all around 4 sides. Long live our trees, shrubs, and flowering plants, and pinestraw all around!!!!

If you want to see our garden, you have to drive to the end of the driveway and walk around the house. Almost all of the flowering plants are out from the house, so I CAN SEE them from the windows inside!

BTW, I started my own DLS 13 years ago when we first moved here, much to the chagrin of our neighbors!!! Can I join yours????

You bet Judith, if I can figure out how to dig and get them to you properly. I got this amazing new shovel for Christmas. It's a 1' long, 4" wide blade on a nice long super handle.
My trees are so old and big that I believe these are shoots from the roots. I have tons of acorns from the one huge Water Oak in the back, but don't really get many, if any from three Live Oaks in the front.
I'll see what I can dig-up when I get back from a quick juant to DC next week. I have decided t cultivate 2 volunteers here from now on too.

Hurrah for Judith, the longest Dead Lawn member. How Great is that.... I'm only just getting going but I'll have it whipped in a year or so. It's just that I added a whole 'nother lot to contend with and i've been playing catch up over on that one as it's been ignored for ten years before it became my problem.

My neighbors too wish I'd just plant and mow some grass. Fat Chance. heehee. Welcome to all.

Just yesterday saw the tail end of a PBS program saying this drought my section of the country is in may just be the way things will be for a long loooooooong time. Something to ponder.

Blooms, do you use the water retaining crystals when you plant? They are good for holding water as it rushes swiftly through the sand in my yard.
This year of course I had plenty with our hurricanes, but many years we have had drought here too. I have electric rain now and everyone thinks I did it for grass, ch,ch,ch wrong!
I am rooting cuttings today and wish I had some electric rain in the house for them.