The Dead Lawn Society

grass photo 1e

This message was edited May 17, 2006 10:23 PM

16" grass photo 2a

This message was edited May 17, 2006 10:24 PM

16" grass photo 2b

This message was edited May 17, 2006 10:24 PM

16" grass photo 2c

This message was edited May 17, 2006 10:25 PM

Hi birdman! Looks like creeping bentgrass to me (Agrostis palustris).

16" grass photo 2d

This message was edited May 17, 2006 10:25 PM

Hi PrairieGirlZ5 the taller one? both?
Creeping bentgrass (Agrostis stolonifera on DG)?
here, too:
http://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/Plant.asp?code=G870

Try to get in tight like this photo-

This plant is Pennisetum glaucum 'Purple Majesty', not a responsible plant choice for a no-mow lawn but the photo is decent.

Grasses are real hard for me. They take me a while to figure out even with good photos. Sometimes I can get them, sometimes I can't.

Since there are a lot of people here, would you go back and edit your posts and label each image. Example would be the first photo is 1a, the second photo of the plant posted would be 2a and for the second photo of plant #2 go with 2b and 3a etc so everyone knows which photos go with which plant so that if there are questions, it's easier to refer to a specific image.

done.
I got as close as I could with the flash. I try tomorrow if the sun ever comes out.
Maybe if I crop in Photoshop it will show better.
How did you get your posted photo to be 2.5 x the area of mine?

Series 3 for grass ID. If this is something other than Buchloe dactyloides, and I want a "native" lawn, what should I do now?

16" tall grass 3a

16" tall grass 3b

16" tall grass 3c

16" tall grass 3d

16" tall grass 3e

16" tall grass 3f

Here are the grasses on my current list. All are supposedly attractive to birds. The non-natives, Briza media, Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Avalanche', Festuca glauca 'Elijah Blue', Miscanthus sinensis, and Pennisetum alopecuroides are there either because I want a cool season grass or there's some niche my natives won't fill, e.g. winter interest or screening. Miscanthus sinensis isn't invasive here.

Scientific Name Common Name
Andropogon gerardii Big bluestem
Bouteloua curtipendula Sideoats grama
Bouteloua gracilis Blue grama
Briza media Common quaking grass
Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Avalanche' 'Karl Foerster' Feather reed grass
Carex bicknellii sedge
Carex flaccosperma var. glaucodea Blue wood sedge
Carex pennsylvania Pennsylvania sedge
Chasmanthium latifolium Northern Sea Oats
Deschampsia cespitosa 'Goldgehange' 'Goldschleier' 'Goldtau' Tufted hair grass
Elymus canadensis Canada wild rye
Elymus histrix Bottle brush grass
Festuca glauca 'Elijah Blue' Blue fescue
Luzula sylvatica Great woodrush
Miscanthus sinensis 'Adagio' 'Gracillimus' 'November Sunset' 'Strictus' Eulalia
Panicum virgatum 'Cloud Nine' 'Rehbraun' 'Rotstrahlbusch' Switch grass
Pennisetum alopecuroides 'Hamelin' Fountain grass
Schizachyrium scoparium ‘The Blaze’ Little Bluestem
Sorghastrum nutans 'Indian Steel' 'Sioux Blue' Indian grass
Sporobolus heterolepis Prairie dropseed

Here are some nice photos on Quack Grass- http://www.ppws.vt.edu/scott/weed_id/agrre.htm

I know you don't have a photo of Quack Grass up there but I ran across it and figured I'd post it here for others since it's such a problem child for many of us and the photos were really good.

Here's a few neat sites I ran across for other people-
http://whizlab.isis.vt.edu/servlet/wid?table=grasses
http://www.agriliance.com/images/WEED_ID.PDF#search='grass%20weed%20identification'
http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/weedscience/publications/Grass99.pdf#search='grass%20weed%20identification'
http://turfgrassmanagement.psu.edu/weedmgmt.cfm

I just started looking at your images and am going to save them to my desktop one by one so that I can enlarge them. I'm not good with grass, sedge, or rush identification but I try hard. I've got company this weekend so I may have to pick this up again next Tuesday but I am going to try my best to see what I can find onyour grasses. I'm sort of glad you posted these photos. Gives everyone a chance to take a look see.

I ran across a publication that you might like, "Weeds of the Northeast" by Uva, Neal, and DiTomaso. I have "Weeds of the North Central States" and it's been a big help to me and I've learned a lot from it.

Incidentally, what niche do you feel the Briza, Calamagrostis, Festuca, Miscanthus, and Pennisetum fill that an indigenous plant doesn't fill? Or why do you feel you need a cool season grass for your birds? Jusdt curious.

This is going to be fun for all of us. Thanks for posting your photos.

Birdmanct,
glad you posted the pics but grasses are too difficult for me to ID too, sorry I can't help...

Grasses, non-natives, rationales for 2006-5-19

Thanks for making me rethink. I’m a newbie to plants and newer still to natives. I am educable and flexible, though, and if I can accomplish my goals with natives, which includes finding them to buy, I’ll do so. Here goes:

cool season – because I want to start getting bird-seeds and green and flowers as early as possible.

Briza media because it starts mid-spring, is creeping so it will fill in empty spaces that clumpers won’t and be a good ground cover and good to keep weeds out, it’s long-lived, has attractive flowers into winter.

Calamagrostis x acutiflora 'Avalanche' because I want a non-fence screen as much of the year as possible in a strip 12’ x 2’ between my driveway and where my neighbor’s dogs poop. This grass is tall, straight, starts early, and looks good in winter.

Festuca glauca 'Elijah Blue' again cool season, attractive blue color [don’t think any of the natives are bluish], this cultivar is the longest-lived of the species.

Miscanthus sinensis basically because I can get it, while the natives are hard to find here. 'Strictus' again because it would make a good straight screen.

Pennisetum alopecuroides 'Hameln' bec. it’s an exc. ground cover, has very attractive inflorescenses. Or other cultivars just because they’re attractive and different looking than the natives. But if all cultivars are invasive, I won’t get it.

I haven't had time to read any of your "Links to sites that promote native plants", but I will soon.


This message was edited May 19, 2006 12:30 PM

I followed the excellent http://whizlab.isis.vt.edu/servlet/wid that equilibrium recommended, and came up with several answers. However, when I said "I don't know" more often, it listed 6 choices. The closest by far is Bulbous Oatgrass or Bulbous Tall Oatgrass: Arrhenatherum elatius var. bulbosa


HOWEVER, it also looks like PrairieGirlZ5's suggestion, Creeping bentgrass (Agrostis palustris). whizlab didn't list that grass!

Either way, it's not what I want unless I turn it into a giant putting green.

Haven't read all this - long for antsy me...but I am happily a member of the dead lawn society! Ask my husband. Down with yard grass! (My dogs are on the same team-dig it up, move it out!)

Ya know what's really funny?? My little long haired chihuahua would much rather poop in the mulch than in what grass I have left. I haven't read thru the whole thing either, but I'll go back up to read what others are doing for areas where one actually wants to walk.

bentgrass?
Was it bent before you walked on it?
My parents had Washington Bent years ago. I have never seen it offered for sale in many decades.

I swear I didn't do it! It was already bent!

Here's a link to Washington bent grass and golf: http://www.hyperionfc.com/golf.php

So, does anyone know if birds eat seeds from bentgrass or Bulbous Tall Oatgrass (Arrhenatherum elatius var. bulbosa)? From all grasses? When I search in DG or university plant sites, they enumerate certain grasses for birds, but the lists differ and are without any explanation. I haven't found a site that says birds like bentgrass or Arrhenatherum, but then most people mow it to 1-2". Mine is unshaven, 2' high, 3' with pannicles. http://www.mobot.org/gardeninghelp/plantfinder/Plant.asp?code=G870

Killing the original lawn, seeding with Buffalo Grass, weeding extensively for 2 years, then winding up with an invasive turf-grass is an experience up with which I will not again put. If I do try again, it would be with a US native, preferably one of the 3 that I know of that are CT natives:
Big bluestem (Andropogon gerardii).
Switchgrass (Panicum virgatum).
Little bluestem (Schizachyrium scoparium, syn. Andropogon scoparius)

but possibly with one of these other US natives:
Bouteloua curtipendula Sideoats grama
Bouteloua gracilis Blue grama
Carex bicknellii sedge
Carex flaccosperma var. glaucodea Blue wood sedge
Carex pennsylvania Pennsylvania sedge
Chasmanthium latifolium Northern Sea Oats
Deschampsia cespitosa 'Goldgehange' 'Goldschleier' 'Goldtau' Tufted hair grass
Elymus canadensis Canada wild rye
Elymus histrix Bottle brush grass
Luzula sylvatica Great woodrush
Schizachyrium scoparium ‘The Blaze’ Little Bluestem
Sorghastrum nutans 'Indian Steel' 'Sioux Blue' Indian grass
Sporobolus heterolepis Prairie dropseed

I bought two reference books last weekend to play with your grasses and what can I say but lots of grass out there. This is exactly why when I plant grasses here... I will only purchase grasses that are indigenous to my State and to my County. It is too darn difficult identifying grass and I've only got half a chance if the clump is right in front of my face. Ugh. The two publications I picked up were the second editions edited by Agnes Chase of Volumes One and Two of the "Manual of the Grasses of the United States" by A. S. Hitchcock. I gotta tell you that all grass is starting to look the same to me! They are great publications but... don't buy them or by the time you are done trying to id even so much as one clump of grass, you will be ready to throw in the towel and your eyeballs will be hanging out of your head on slinkies.

I did find an interesting photo that I downloaded to my desktop and am posting here. It's not my photo but is from The University of Illinois' Crop Sciences website and can be located at this link-
http://www.cropsci.uiuc.edu/classes/cpsc112/images/PlantSystems/grassleafpic.jpg

LOL,

Well well well sugahbaby... please tell me that you tried to get an id on his grasses? Are your eyeballs going boing too? I'm still hung up on the grass that PGZ5 thought was a Bentgrass and I keep coming up with a worthless Oatgrass on that one.

Hey birdman, I liked the grasses on your native list. The Miscanthus and a few others you mentioned aren't really the greatest for birds yet they are still listed as being so in many outdated publications. You might want to consider adding some fruiting trees and shrubs for your bird babies. Migrating birds need lipids in order to survive. Another area to explore would be the addition of conifers to your landscape. I recently began adding Cedar trees for just this reason but then went ahead and began adding Pinus spp. Birds are attracted to needle-bearing trees because they are dense and provide great protection where they can nest and roost. Pine cones also have seeds that are very desirable to many small birds. Water, that's another component to the equation. Birds need water to survive and are attracted to the sounds of running water even if it is nothing more than a little fountain in a birdbath. Just a few ideas. Were you aware we have a new forum called Gardening For Wildlife? I think you might like it. It's brand new so there are very few threads in it but maybe you could change that?

Birds are attracted to the sound of running water?
Fascinating.
New wildlife gardening forum? hmmmm....

Running water is a critter magnet! Running water is to birds what milkweed is to Monarchs. Add even the smallest of water features and watch what shows up. A trickle tower even works based on my experiences.

I would like to have a big area of Muhlenbergia capillaris, but havn't come up with exactly how I want to do it yet.

I only cultivate Lemon grass, The rest is just all igules and auriclues to me.
;)

equilibrium - love the Slinky image :)
your pic is worth a dozen web sites. when I worked thru the one you mentioned before and got to the question "is the ligule less than 1mm, 1-2mm, 2-4mm....." I got out my micrometer, found that some were .7mm, some 1.6mm, some non-existent, and more than my eyes glazed over. And, I realized that no picture I took could give you the info you'd need to make an ID. I couldn't get a sure ID even thought I had the bugger in my hand. One site discussed genetic IDs of grasses!

I eliminated all the non-natives on my list thanks to you. You are my heroin (sic).

I'm going to move the grass question to the new wildlife forum.

I have all the bird-attractors you mentioned, including the sound and sight of running water (just a dripper in a bird bath, but the birds love it). I haven't posted about that because I didn't have a question, but when I have some time I'll post on the other forum.

Now you understand why grasses, sedges, and rushes are the only plants that I exclusively go native on. I try and try and try to identify these grass thingies and I buy every imaginable reference manual and I end up going virtually blind and bonkers.

Th omission was deliberat.

Thanks for the clarification ;)

hehehe
(some kind a humor around this joint)

We're all nothing more than a bunch of enablers. That's the conclusion my husband came to a long time ago. Instead of going to the corner plant pimp, we go to each other to create lists of ever so desirable plants that we must then go out unto the earth to hunt down to feed our "habits". A little interjected humor amongst friends never hurt anyone... well exclude the pocket book.

Skimmed through your thread. A long time ago someone mentioned a curly grass in W.TX - Curly Mesquite or Hilaria belangeri - TX zones 5-10. Grows 4-6" and is more drought tolerant than even Buffalo, but not as soft-textured (p.127 of Native TX Plants by Wasowski).

The Carex or sedges here in TX are nice replacements for grass in shade and sometimes sun. Texensis spreads by rhizomes, but others can also form a nice mat, too. A little less xeric than Buffalo, it still needs a lot less water and care than non-native grasses. The natives here are nearly evergreen, too. So, why aren't more people using them?

Because they've been bit by advertising and the lush........burn-up the money with water, chemicals and mowing bug.
Duh!!!
LOL