Israel and Palestine are at it again

This thread was on the second page for hours,,,,,,,,,,it just got bumped back up to the front,I too agree with Poppy sue,I also have watched this go on from the start,maybe now that some have decided to leave,the Forum may come back around,at a time of year that is best for looking at blooms,I think the last time the Forum got shut down was winter,and who knows if it was cabin fever driving it?
Let this die a natural death and go where only the ones that need to perpetuate this,have to look for it,20 pages back...
Root.

I was hoping my singing would help it on its way Root! LOL No such luck.

Dare we all bump it back? Think Dave would notice?

perhaps when you respond to too many threads at one time, it puts new ones back on a burner, where they are never seen?????? That is what I have noticed happens.

Not pointing any fingers - just know some of mine have turned out that way, when I just wanted some advice.

Too many threads going. Can't We just post our kewl pics on one (that have buds) and questions on others, so perhaps there aren't so many that end up in an archive, barely noticed or answered?

If someone responds to too many at one time, but ignores one, it puts that one way way back like it's old, even though it's new, and goes unnoticed. I find that inapporpriate and rude.

If you have ever felt I have been rude or acted inappropriately to you Karrie please tell me,I am on line now after being out working Brugs while it is cool out,I tend to post in spurts.it is not that cool out,but the best I can hope for,for some time to come.
I like to roll through the posts and answer any questions I can,I also love to see all the blooms being posted,whether it be you with your first Brug,or one that Monika has had for 25 years,I can not answer alll the questions,even most,I will post and talk to you,or the next person,with concern and care until,Monika,Kyle,or someone better answers.I am into these plants too,if yours is sick,I want to know,if you have a new baby,I want to see it.
I have tried to stay off this thread,I'm in here now,,,,I have respect for the ones that have not posted here,and I have respect for the ones that have.
I do not agree with everything here I have read,and it does not matter much, on an open Forum,I am the only person here that clicked this little mouse and made this box go to this thread,why?
I like Daves,I don't look elsewhere........
Root.

Root! WOW and whoooooah! absolutely not! You are one of my best friends in here! I'm really not sure what is going on here, but Dave is on it, and as I mentioned before, it may have been unintentional by someone answering too many at one time. You have always been cool to me and a friend with good advice. So have many others. I love you all, and just wish we didn't have to fret so much on this forum. I'm sure Dave will come up with a solution.

Karrie,I am sorry if I was abrupt,I feel strongly on this subject.Please if I did speak out of context to you,accept my apology.
Root.
You have also been nothing but kind to me.

Karrie: If your question got "lost" it was unintentional. Sometimes we have so many posting on one with a beautiful pic, we forget the ones we already know the answer to and think we will come back later and answer, by then it is on page #2. If your question is not answered, go in that thread and write a new post. Say, " I never received any suggestions or answers to me question"! People will notice it wasn't answered and try then to help you out. Sorry, but this does happen.

I know this is probably not the root of the problem, but does everyone know about being able to view more than 20 threads per page now? Maybe that would help posts not get bumped to the second page so much if everyone who participates in this very busy forum would choose to see more than 20 threads (up to 100). I see 60 threads at a time and see threads as far back as Sunday morning.

It is on your preferences page...
http://davesgarden.com/prefs/preferences.php

Great suggestion, sweezle, I had no idea that option existed...

That is a really good idea, there are no dumb questions.

I want to apoligize for my part in making any innocent bystanders uncomfortable in the recent controversy between myself and other members of Dave's. That was not my intention. I remember when this forum was started and we all used to post 20-30 times a day, loving every minute of it.
Please accept my apology and if any of you have any questions about brugmansia please don't hesitate to e-mail me personally.
But please don't email me about this, I won't talk about it, thanks for understanding.

tiG, I do not know you but your post is oh so nice. For 30 years, I've been a domestic counselor for a group of attorneys. One thing I learned that has never changed - there are two sides to EVERY story. More often than not, each party is about 50% wrong, as well as 50% right. And, that's what it sounds like we have here.

The stories some of the posters have written should tell both sides of this controversy, that both sides seem to have hurt feelings, tho I still don't know who is on either side, whew. And, in all fairness, to both sides of the controversy, regardless of what any of us do or don't do, there will always be some hurt feelings, it's the nature of people, and it is particularly difficult on the internet, when all we see are words. Shoot, if I didn't have an unusually thick skin, there could have been several times that I could have huffed off, not just this list, but many others. Truth is, I don't give a flying ooh la la if I'm a ranked favorite on DG, and, in particular, the brugmansia & friends forum; however, I would die a million deaths (slight exaggeration) before I would deliberately hurt an individuals feelings.

I also realize that my, aaah hmmm, advanced age and profession, for once in my life, give me an edge regarding 'hurt feelings'. In our discussions, over the past almost 42 years, my hubby's mother, age 90.7 months, has always said that it's easy to pick out the person in a group of people, who has the most class - that person will be the one that makes the most people feel comfortable and at ease. I think she's right and I think that can be said about the internet and DG and the brugmansia & friends forum, ya know??!! Hey, I do not mind being told that I'm totally off base, fire away, I have on my silver (to match my hair) flame resistant suit!!!

I too,would like to apologize to any of the newcomers and lurkers that I have made uncomfortable with any of my post.For those of you that are new to the forum this must be an unsettling thing to watch.My sincerest apologies.The brug forum has been a friendly place in the past and I believe it will be again.
Please feel free to email me with any Brug questions.I would rather not have questions about this thread.I'm done with it.

hi guys... this is the other half , or as i posted on one other thread on african violets, i'm the 'significantly other' one. :) you'll always be able to tell the difference if you've followed any of her posts. first, she knows where the caps key is... second, she is very precise with her grammer... lol... i could give a rats.... umm.... nevermind.... :D n i tend not to use all the vowels or consanents when typin. (note the lack of a 'g'...) tends to save keystyrokes, n i'm gonna be understood anyway, so why bother? heh, ok, on to why i'm posting. its a bit on the serious side, so bear with me.

i've been a surfer n chatter for near 7 years now. been in hundreds of chatrooms, dozens of forums. seen the good , the bad n the ugly. (i don't keep mirrors around anymore, as a reason)

here, i find the usual. some person/persons are spoiling it for all... many 'one liners' exist on it... 'one bad apple' is the most prevelent, i think.

so, i'm gonna give you my two cents of it all.

first, i'll call a spade a spade. i call this type of behavior anti-social. in that i mean that the person/persons could care less of the impact on their fellow man, but only consider what is right for them. so, i'll digress a bit on what constitutes anti-social behavior.

lets take the act of 'an eye for an eye' as an example... it often boils down to 'look what you did to me, n now get ready for what i'm gonna do to you'.... we oft-times call it getting even, or paybacks. its still a transgression , folks. i'm not the advocate of 'turn the cheek'... far from it. i believe in justice actions against those who don't seem to be able to get the idea of acceptable human behavior. but there are those who, despite requests to comply, seem to not pay attention. therefore, we, as a group, must act in self-presevation to prevent them from causing further harm. one does not launch into a witch-hunt here, of 'who' is the culprit. one looks to the statistics of those suspected, and, based on viable information , then acts. in these forums, that means a ban.

from what i've read so far, and i've read about 70 of the posts, it seems that there are players. they have nicks here, and can be traced. i'm also of the idea that these are the same players of the troubles hinted at of several years back. if that is true, then they do not have the right to be here, as they have done naught but stir up trouble. there are those that work to build things up, and those that work to tear things down. i judge a man by his word and his actions, both. and yes, i do judge. my survival depends on not allowing anyone who would destroy me or my family near. if you think about it, neither do you. if you knew a man to be a thief, would you let him stay in your home? or if he be a rapist, date your daughter? i think not. i believe you should also not allow those who are constantly bickering and 'finding fault' be around you either. they are a drain on ones' spirit, at the least.

( as an aside, an easy cure for some types of anti-social behavior is to disconnect. heh, when the person gets the idea that he gets to be really really alone, he tends to get alot more social in his actions. ever been ignored? lol... criminals have a tough go of it out of prison cuz nobody wants to trust them... why? we tend to suspect they might not be done.)

banning a person from a website has the same effect folks. only takes one or two heads on the ol pike n the rest of the minor trouble-makers will fall in line. or they will leave. either way life will improve.

well, thats maybe two n a huff cents... oh well... ;)

I have to applaud the peoplr who have had the courage to admit when they have made an error. Sometimes we get caught up in the moment and don't think how our behavior can hurt other people. The people that posted saying they have felt discounted touched my heart because I too have felt that way before. One thing I know is true from the bottom of my heart is it never makes me a better person if I discount the feelings of others. God bless you all and if I can assist you in any way with growing brugmansia please don't hesitate to e-mail me. I am not an expert by any means but manage to grow some nice brugs that get better every year.

Thank you,
Loretta Sorsby

PS Please no e-mails about the controversy but if you want to talk gardening send them on.

I have to ask (because when I first found this forum, I was QUICKLY swept to another site via email sent to me, and without knowing any better, I followed. Thank God I had enough sense to also stay active here)... why would people email people privately about growing brugs? There is SO much information right here, and with different zones, climates, and conditions, I know it would not be the same for every person that grows brugs. I dont recall EVER, 1 thread on this forum that has not been replied to in one way or another. And if for some reason a question doesnt get answered, theres always a great search feature.

So many times I have seen "sorry for the dumb question" and so many times more, I have seen "there are no dumb questions" OR "thank you for asking this, I would like to know also I will be waiting for an answer also"

Please think hard about the question I have asked, and I personally dont think "because people have posted they dont feel comfortable here" is a valid answer. I would like to know why would you personally take on questions that you may not even know the answers to yourselves?

I am relatively new to this forum but I have always felt welcome here. All my posts, even the stupid ones, have received a good response. I think some people were dissuaded by the negative tone this forum took a couple of weeks ago when an old feud was reignited. As far as I can tell, the bad blood is between rival brug breeders, and doesn't concern most of us amateur gardeners directly. Except in the sense that we sometimes don't get as much help, information, and sharing as we could because some folks are discouraged from posting here. Maybe there are a few "amateurs" who have aligned themselves with one faction or another, for whatever reaon. I am not going to take sides here - don't even try to drag me into it! I try to find the best in everyone and treat everyone kindly unless they are actively hostile to me. I recently joined BGI as well so now I can see "both sides" - they are good folks too and it's sad there is so little cooperation and sharing between people who have the same interests.

I'm still convinced that something happend there that was unintentional.

I haven't run across anyone on this Brug forum that would, in my eyes, hurt anyone intentionally.

It was nice to see people apologize, for possibly being the contenders. But maybe we just learned a lesson here about how we share the forums.

We can share pics on the same threads - HEY! what an idea!

You might be right Karrie surely no one would behave that way on purpose.

My personal policy:

LOLOLOL probably keeps you out of trouble, farizona!

Well, I've seen this thread on my first page for longer than I thought it would be. After stopping to see why it was still alive and why Dave hadn't closed this thread, I was surprised to see Daves' post that he wanted it all out in the open. If he's waiting for feedback, I'm willing.

From having a vantage point from being in DG and BGI, I have been able to see the current foundation of this conflict. I wasn't around for the original "war", so my post is not to point out who I think is right or wrong. However, the following points are listed for those who truly are curious as to what this is all about.

The "war"....
If the average member looks at the threads, the only evidence of any discord was between two members. Anyone that says they "felt" the tension throughout the brug Forum has absolutely nothing to base that comment on. When Dave posted his displeasure of what was going on, the initial member comments were based on "hearing" there was a problem than "seeing" one.

The "outrage" over "bumping" is overblown in some posts due to the fact that all one needs to do to keep a thread on the first page is post to it. The damage done was one of annoyance than the above mentioned "abuse". However, at DG, bumping a thread is frowned on for good reason and Dave made a resounding point that it would stop.

The next wave of posts painted the picture of bumping used as a abusive response to someone who just wanted to post a picture. The truth being that the history of conflict was not mentioned as the cause. This thread is being heavily populated with that theme but is deceptive when it comes to pointing out that both groups carry a responsibility in any hostilities.

The general public is reading post by post trying to get a feel of what the problem is but won't unless someone steps forward with the outline of the situation. What I will say will be open for anyones' interpretation but are points that need to see the light of day. By Dave stating he didn't want this to recede to the shadows makes me take this step. These are questions that need to be asked...and answered...

First....
"Why is there always a war in the brug Forum??"
One of the two groups in these conflicts is BGI. It's a small website that caters to the brug community just like DG. Nothing wrong with that but it gives a "rival" mentality whenever there is disagreements between the two. No other Forum has this unique chance of conflict. That's not a condemnation of either group but the cause of repeated friction.
Second....
The "players"...
Why is this thread being populated with members who have had no recent problems to even refer to???
That's the crux of the matter. This thread was about Dave loudly responding to behind the scenes problems. The members that have come to the forefront are using this "bumping" as the way to give their version of what DG is with "cruel, jealous, mean spirited" members running the show. Once again based on their personal fued with DG members. If tiG was the recipient of 2 posts that she had a problem with, there is absolutely no reason for the following members to come to her aid. By doing so, they have established the "group" mentality in their response. The conflicts are subtle as a rule but this thread is being used to try and win over the average member who is not a part of any of this.
Being friends with someone and wanting the best for them does not give anyone the right to try and exact "vigilante justice". Dave and his staff are more than willing and available to help any member with concerns. However the following members have decided to take it upon themselves to tell the tale.....

PaintedLady....
She takes on the "cause" by portraying the problem as her thread and tiGs being the subject of abuse. PLs' thread had nothing but compliments from all but she makes sure to include hers with tiGs so she can speak. She had absolutely nothing to do with any postings to tiG but champions her friends "mistreatment". She refers to the "resident experts" wanting a fight when in actuality, her thread and tiGs were on the first page the majority of the time. TiGs MM thread actually left the first page on it's own accord in the beginning. If her feelings were hurt cuz some members didn't post, she should be aware that I'm sure some avoided it for personal reasons. For that, tiG must carry equal responsibility for those instances.
PL dissects a poster who bravely stepped forward to apologize and explain her part in the "bumping" with the main reply being that the 'problem" solely resides on the "resident experts". Once again with no responsibility to the "other side".

Pardoncanda.....
Never was a part of any friction in the above mentioned threads but more than willing to come in and paint a picture of members being run off DG with no proof but will speak for the majority that they're "uncomfortable". To speak so loudly of those instances, I would expect some examples of rude or abusive posts yet he has none.

earthling.....
At the beginning of the thread admits to being clueless but as the thread continues is magically in the 'know". Uses the reason she was not in the "in crowd" and wasn't given cuttings when she asked. Too bad....free cuttings populate the threads whenever they're available. Once again just a vague complaint to denigrate the "other group".

Msjen....
Another who distorts the truth by saying new members don't get a cutting but are sent to a online store for purchase. Just cuz some members may have a certain brug that someone wants, doesn't obligate them to cut it down to the soil cuz someone asks for it. The idea of sharing is that when members have cuttings available, they share from the goodness of their heart, not to satisfy ones who don't have it.

The majority of questions come from times the brugs in question are not even capable or ready for cuttings which bring the response on where they might be gotten. Those instances bring up online nurseries with GHs that are housing plants all year long.

Gone2seed....
No mistreatment but more than willing also to "champion the cause"...

shadowgirl...
Portrays herself as a lurker who hasn't been around long. Been around from Nov.1,2003 Enjoyed her first post when she layed responsibility on both sides but then took 3 posters opinions and portrayed them as a regular problem that's tied to the "other side". Continues by trying to cast a 'shadow" on one poster who had the class and dignity to accept responsibilty and to apologize in the "bumping" episode by bringing into question why her business shouldn't suffer cuz of her actions. SHAME ON HER for even more mudslinging.
If that is the "rule of thumb" to be used and agreeing BOTH sides carry equal responsibilities than the same can be said for tiGs' online store, gone2seeds' business, AND shadowgirls' business (for picking one poster and injecting such blatent smear tactics)

Last but not least...tiG...
While it seems like she has done nothing wrong in this case, one cannot ignore she is an intricate part in a long standing feud and this episode is a chapter to a story, not the whole story. Her statements that no bad things written over at BGI about DG members are beyond untruthful. If tiG wants to reassert her request for proof, I'll oblige....

The common denominator in the above members are that all are staunch BGI members. If this was to "clear the air", the accusations wouldn't still be flying and there would be an effort to come to a compromise. Instead we hear of vague complaints but of no proof of threads where all this is happening. While you hear of them being "run-off" the Forum, you should be asking for evidence and wonder of the intent.

Just like in the "Ludger" thread where some BGI members said that the brug Forum should be closed, the only beneficiary of such a move would be BGI. That thread was a great indicator of BGI who came with the point that Ludger had a sterling reputation and was no trouble even though they themselves kicked him off BGI. Ludgers subsequent actions and banning answered their charges that it was a witch hunt. Credibility lost...

Most members have come from private emails to DG members which is fine if it just offered another brug Forum to visit. But when you couple the concerted fighting and repeated advertizing that BGI is a "friendlier place" on the DG brug Forum, you are made more than aware of a conflict of interest.

The charges of jealousy are a smoke screen. The majority of established brug members have no reason to be when there has been a multitude of beautiful brugs grown through the years. To grow beautiful hybrids are easier due to the groudwork laid out by many of the members of DG and Hybridizers abroad. The proof is that between Terry McLeod and tiGs' 5 years or so collective brug growing experience, they have grown a BEAUTIFUL brug which bodes well for the rest of us. To use this as an excuse to white wash prior accurate reasons for the feud is unconscionable.

Two final questions...

Why did one member come out and initially apologize and explain why she "bumped" threads only to be attacked while two others apologize and are applauded for their class??
The attack came from the rival group while the applause came from a fellow member who also attacked the first poster.

What is the similarity with the endings of these posts, people???

tiG: Please accept my apology and if any of you have any questions about brugmansia please don't hesitate to e-mail me personally.
But please don't email me about this, I won't talk about it, thanks for understanding.

Gone2seed: My sincerest apologies.
Please feel free to email me with any Brug questions.I would rather not have questions about this thread.I'm done with it.

shadowgirl: God bless you all and if I can assist you in any way with growing brugmansia please don't hesitate to e-mail me...... PS Please no e-mails about the controversy but if you want to talk gardening send them on.

I guess the real question is... Do you believe in coincidences?

Eva, i guess I have to believe in coincidences. I came here with an honest apology and hoped to leave all this with at least having made an effort. perhaps I should have said 'if you wish to email me about anything except this, then feel free', maybe it would have been better to leave that sentence out altogether, what's done is done.
everything isn't as sinister as one might believe.

I know just on the surface it might seem as such but for any hostilities to stop, you and snowhermit as the highest ranking officials at BGI should publicy denounce attacks by its' members whether it be at BGI, which you censor as a rule, but also on any other brug Forum.
This latest episode centers on the defense of you and you alone. For you not to comment on that behavior from your own members is as good as giving your blessing.

Take the high road, tiG, and help both Forums meet in the middle. It's not a coincidence that the last 3+ months were without conflict while the above BGI members were absent from the Forum. Your member, shadowgirl, who supposedly was treated so badly to the point of lurking has somehow found her voice and is all over the threads. None of it is subtle anymore.

Help make it stop or at least admit you won't....

what else would you have me do? does an apology not help? I can't stay here all day and post to make it right for you or anyone else, I'm sorry. I apologized and meant it. that's all I can do. Now I have babies to tend to and weeds to pull.

Forget it, tiG
It's obvious you won't comment on anything except to make yourself look like your being attacked when all you are doing is "apologizing".

If you didn't notice the first poster to apologize was raked over the hot coals. I only asked pointed questions that you can't answer except to say..."everything isn't as sinister as one might believe".

Well, talk about misrepresentation from someone giving her "DG member" opinion....shadowgirl aka Loretta writes your monthly newsletter.....I guess another coincidence, huh?

wow - what has happend here???

Well, I guess *I* got told good and proper..and I dont even know who the 'other group' is..

I am a member of all three groups. For starters, tiG has nothing to say about what anyone who happens to be a BGI member says here. It's not her place to reprimand them for actions outside BGI. To suggest so is laughable. She may be a mom, but she's not theirs.

I also notice how you - I'm guessing an ABADS member, without directly saying so, are apparently pointing all of the blame to BGI. As a member of all three groups, my observation (in the last year and a half or so) is of the people who seem to be involved, the BGI members aren't nearly as quick to make a jab. Just look at your post. Just when the thread was seemingly winding down or at least being civil, you have to jump in with a quick stab. Heck, you went so far as to pick people out individually. Are we to presume you are just an innocent bystander - or worse, a tragic victim of these evil, heinous people? I'm guessing not (need a "rolls eyes" smilie here). The only person seemingly making this a DG vs. BGI thing (at least on this thread) is you. It's stupid and childish.

I like all three groups, and for that matter, there isn't any individual at any of the three groups that I don't like. But get off the cross, sweetie.

Feel free to go and read.
What you all decide to do is your decision, and your decision alone.
But are we all on Dave's Garden to help one another and not fight among each other?




http://davesgarden.com/t/448455/

Another BGI member....What a shock...
I was wondering how long before we heard another cry about "BGI bashing".

For starters, Carter, it has been a BGI bashfest here. And just cuz finally someone has stepped forward with the stark light of day to illuminate the players, do you even venture in to defend tiG and BGI.

Instead of coming to dispute the points brought up, you decide it's best to attack me. I laid out actions and intent while you try to discredit those by centering on me. Nice try but the questions still hang out there unanswered.

It makes no sense for someone who says they have no arguments with anyone and like all three sites to show up here and immediately discount BGI as a "player" in this.

I REPEATEDLY said both sides carry equal responsibility and your reply is..."I also notice how you - I'm guessing an ABADS member, without directly saying so, are apparently pointing all of the blame to BGI." Now you make a "stab" at ABADS. Again a nice try but I hate to burst your bubble but I'm not. But that does raise yet ANOTHER question on intent. Why would you mention ABADS???? A new diversion from the way this thread has been with nothing but BGI members who don't come to DG but show for the latest mudslinging???

You have no answers but you take the time to try to credit me with words I've never spoken. And read your own By-Laws, my friend. tiG or snowhermit can discipline anyone who damage, in any way, BGIs reputation. So when they watch members like you being aggressive to members at DG, Yes...They have the power to diffuse the situation. Especially when this latest one centers on tiG. They don't cuz they don't want to.

This thread wasn't coming to a conclusion. On the contrary, the effort was made to portray BGI as "friendlier" and to denigrate the "inner circle" of DG. Then the apologies and the requests to email privately about brugs. Hit and run, huh? Nice ad campaign....Offer personal advice from a DG brug Forum....No need for the offers except to look for new members.

I'm tired of the games behind the scenes. If you cared 1/4 as much for DG as your "friendlier place", you would not continue to stir up this thread. But you did and finished it with your "impartial" secretary, shadowgirl, to congradulate the apologizers after she hypocritically attack the first poster who apologized.

When you decide you need some proof of some of the things I've said, I'll be willing and able....

There's no point in arguing, steel. You are ever so obviously right, and everyone you deem heinous is wrong, and you have a complete grip on the situation. Happy?

And by the way, I meant to take the ABADS comment out because it wasn't pertinent or proper. I am awful at editing my posts. There, now you have something to attack me for, too. Add me to the list.

Why so much hate?

Past injustices, if not forgiven, serve only to succeed and destroy. I know it's hard when you've had your feelings hurt or feel attacked in public, but rest assured that I atleast (as one of the 'silent majority') don't put any weight on comments made in anger OR defense.

Everyone says things they wish they could take back. The difficult thing, the higher road, and also the best thing to do for your own health, is to breath deep and let it roll off. Trust me it takes practice, I know. There will always be people that just can't forgive. Those people will continue to fight until the whole world tells them that they are right and their enemy is wrong. That's just never gonna happen because there's absolutely no way to know who was the 'meanest'.

Everyone has friends and family that will back them up, because that's what you want to do when someone hurts someone you care about. It's hard not to speak up in their defense. But if people want to fight back, let them fight their own battles. And if you can't think of a personal injustice done to you, not your 'group' but you yourself, then you have no productive reason to fight.

I wanted to resist commenting on this thread because this isn't my fight, but if I can offer anyone a reality check or a different point of reference then it's been worth it. I love all you guys and I forgive you all.

SD- The apologies I saw looked sincere and honest. I doubt if there was an ulterior motive other than doing what is needed to take responcibility for one's actions. It is unfortumate that you felt it necessary to try and make a positive step in the right direction into something sinister.
Since this is called a feud between two groups, BGI and ABADS maybe those who are members should check out the mission statement and by-laws. Is'nt there something in there about supporting hybridizers and growers of brugmansia? BGI's by-laws do not say only hybridizers that are members of BGI but all hybridizers. Myself and other members of BGI have encouraged several members of our group to no longer be a party to any of this ridiculous feud. We will continue to do so privately and publically. My hope was that there would be members who would step up and encourage the people involved on the other side to do the same. Perhaps that will still happen.
I don't have to "portray" myself as anything other than what I am, a person who loves gardening and brugmansia and fellowship with people of a like mind. I am a paid member of Dave's and it makes no matter when I joined or how I choose to utilize this forum, by posting or not posting. As long as I do not infringed on the rights of others to have a peaceful and enjoyable place to come, learn and socialize.
I imagine you would like this thread to fade away. Your posts are venomous and you have'nt accepted responcibility for your part in anything. However you are more than willing to point your finger everywhere but yourself. Anyone who reads this thread can see you would rather feel self-rightous than do something to promote harmony like I saw several people do by apologizing.
As I stated earlier, everyone has a part in this ridiculous feud continuing. Including the "players" that I know personally. I cannot say about earlier installments of events in this feud but Bonnie, Terry, Jt, John, and paintedlady could have stopped this anytime by refusing to play and respond when they were being baited by other "players" in this situation. These "players" were not listed and critiqued by you so in reality all you have presented is a one sided fairy tale.
So be it! Now I will take my own good advise by l no longer responding to you when you go trolling for a fight and I hope that other people won't either. Maybe if no one does that you will just get bored and go find other people to fixit on negatively.
I too would like to apoligize to the people who are not a part of this mess. Truly I believe that this thread is turning in to something that is positive and good. Especially if at least some people come to realize the futility of arguing in public on subjects that are unworthy of them even taking notice of.

Loretta

Loretta,this thread had been dropping back and was being put behind us on Aug.3 at 10.14 Am,it had moved to the second page till you brought it back up to alls attention at 5.15PM...

I wonder if we had took a poll of:

1. Those that want to shake hands, apologize and get back to gardening

versus

2. Those that are mad, happy to stay mad, and will continue to fuss until certain people are banned or run off.

What would the count be?

I, for one, would like to be counted under #1.

My goodness Root! Nitpick, nitpick...
I have been following this thread even though I have not even ever come in contact with 95% of the people on participating in this thread and don't usually come to the Brug forum because I am not nearly able to be responsible for Brugs and four human kids. I can't help but be curious about actual problems on the most peaceful forums on the web I know. Especially, in a forum I would like to participate in in the future.
...But, as a neutral party, I can tell that you guys just seem to choose to not get along. Loretta, aka Shadowgirl, was responding to what was a neutral suggestion (Hibiscus's or possibly mine, not sure). I know darn well when I checked my watched threads yesterday morning and then posted my suggestion, I did not check to see if the last message had been posted at 5pm the night before or 2 minutes previously. If it had been me bringing it to the top of the page would you have made the comment? No, probably not, because you are not looking for a reason to "get me". I swear at the smallest infraction, ya'll are like little kids "Look what the big bully did! Look what the big bully did!" When I say ya'll, I mean what looks like both sides.

I vote for #1

I belong to DG, BGI and ABADS. I enjoy each group for different reasons. I recognize members names at each site from another site. I have always been treated well at each site, my questions have been answered and I read more than I write. I recognize that there are 'experts' and 'amateurs' and I know my place. I love seeing the blooms that you post and wish I could have them in my yard.

My tv receives hundreds of channels. If I don't like what's on one, I change it. That doesn't mean that I won't go back to that channel in the future.

I don't stay in front of the computer or the tv all the time, but when I do choose to spend my time there, I like for it to be pleasant.

Linda

I vote of number Uno.

TArogers, that looks like a chimp with a pug's face. LOL

#1