Propagation Prohibited???

I was in our local supermarket last night. They had these pots of big, beautiful lavender that had been grown in & shipped from Canada. There was a sticker on the side of the pot stamped "Prpagation Prohibited" I've never seen this before. What in the world does it mean? That I can't divide the confounded things to put in several places in my yard??

Shazbot3, it is my guess that they must label them this way in order to have them imported as an 'herb' rather than a plant. There are some heavy restrictions on the transport of live plants in and out of Canada. If you buy it, plant it, divide it, share it... who's to know, eh? LOL!

Of course, I could be wrong on this one, so wait for a legitimate answer.

I think that means that someone owns the "rights or patent" to that particular plant and you cannot take cuttings for self profit. They are the ones that will be making the profits.

Branka, you are probably right! Or we both are! LOL!

I agree with all of the above. I have seen similar labels on hybrid roses. Can you imagine all the "theives" their would be if someone should develop a black rose. Ha.

I think there is a law for almost everything, but enforcement is sporatic. If you divide a plant for your own garden, or share it with your Aunt Nellie, no one is going to arrest you. However, if you propagate a plant for resale, it becomes more of an issue.

I've often wondered about the enforcement of horticultural laws. I picture someone in bibbies and a name tag pushing a wheelbarrow with a siren and strobe light on it.

I was very curious and found this article. There are alot of restrictions. I guess that's good for the inventors.

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/plant/#1

Good link, Branka. Good grief, it would appear that it is not very simple to register a patent on a plant, much less enforce the restrictions of reproduction. What a can of worms.

Holy cow, Branka, I had no idea! Weezing, I love the mental image of the wheelbarrow cop! LOL. Well, I didn't buy that thing, number one, it was $12; number 2, I wasn't sure what that whole prohibited thing was about. I'd love to have it, tho. It was HIGHLY fragrant even with no blooms on it. But, I just got a Spanish lavender, and a Hidcote at Home Depot yesterday, so I left that expensive patented one be. Thanks for the info, guys!

What great timing on this thread! I was wondering the same thing regarding some named coleus I purchased, so it now appears that I may share/trade those beauties. Thanks for the link, Branka. :)

Donna

FWIW, I was recently informed by the hybridizer/patent holder of a particular plant that ALL distribution is prohibited. You can divide the plant for your own garden, but if you want to GIVE a division to someone else, it's technically illegal.

Which is a load of horse pucky as far as I can tell. I fully understand and appreciate that patent holders have paid a lot of money to find that one plant that is commercially viable and to register it. Selling cuttings or divisions and not paying the patent holder is wrong.

But if I want to chop up a plant and stand on the street corner giving away rooted cuttings, I fail to see any harm or illegal activity. For one thing, it's not like everyone in the world can or would divide a plant or root cuttings; without a profit motive, the financial "harm" (i.e., lost sales) to the patent holder is minimal at best. I doubt that my pass-alongs are so desirable that the recipients would have paid full price to buy them at the nursery had it not been for me sharing of my garden. Pfffftttttttt......

AMEN, Terry!!!!!

Oh bummer! And those plant patents are for 20 years. *sigh*

I certainly am not looking for gain (rather more as gifts for friends/family), but my fleeting thoughts about exchange is now out of the question. I will not violate a patent, just I as will not use software without a license. I have too much respect for the hard work put into such things (having been on the software side myself... and am light-years from hybridizing... lol).

Thanks for the info, Terry. :)

Donna/TuttiFrutti

Trading is arguably an ethically gray area: you are using the plant to "bargain" and receive something in return. Then again, if you offer them for postage...no different from giving them to a neighbor.

My reason for posting the above was to explain the interpretation of patents from a hybridizer's viewpoint. My personal opinion is that he is/was overreaching what the patent laws are designed to protect.

Think of it this way. If you buy a book, CD or movie, would you think twice about swapping it with a friend who had a different book/CD/movie? Probably not - you bought it, it's yours to do with as you wish. The copyright holder received the royalties from your purchase. The subsequent use (as long as you're not reprinting or copying - and SELLING those copies) is really up to you.

Is it ethical to COPY a book or CD or movie?

For your own use..yes (might be weird and costly, but no harm is done.)

To sell..no (just ask the online music downloaders...)

To trade...gray area ;o)

Oh, I did understand the intent of your original posting, Terry. While the hybridizer does seem a bit, umm, territorial, the topic in general sparked a revisit in my head (and with my love) as to what truly is just and fair... as you are doing. I think we're of the same mind. :)

I think the issue is less of the law, but the enforcement. I think we 'little fish' are not likely to ever get in trouble for sharing any plant, but having the law on the books gives the registerer some recourse if his rights are abused in a big way.

I agree, Weezing. I would never divide an original for trade, but I don't really see the harm in exchanging the seeds, or the plants you've grown from the seed you've harvested yourself. It's not like we're in the nursery business. Although, with all the plants I've ordered from co-ops and traded for, I'm beginning to wonder!!

When I trade seeds from a cultivar, I try to let people know they are 'collected' seed, since the offspring may vary from the original. Cuttings from a plant should, in most cases be identical. It's like the difference between dubbing a cassette tape and duping a CD. Real copyright issues developed when music could be duplicated without loss of quality. At any rate, most of us have duplicated a CD, and the 'Music Police' haven't arrested us. If we advertised cheap CD copies on E-bay, it might be a different story.

Seriously! My daughter & I do that all the time. If I get a cd she likes, I'll make her a copy, and vice-versa. With the prices they charge for the pre-recorded ones these days, I don't think they'll starve if they miss a sale or two...

The fundamentals of it all, is simply the patented (or copyrighted) protection on the material (or plant) .. (such as a song writer/lyricist, what have you) that one obtains - - serves to legally ensure that, should anyone ever up and decide to 'claim' that {they} are the ones that wrote the song (developed the plant), etc. - - enables the already copyrighted and truly legit songwriter to the rights thereof, and naturally, to sue and seek any/all damages applicable! AND, have the 'laws' undeniably .. in their favor ..

Still ... just as stated before .. many many gray areas ... Especially with plants, etc.

Guess, if it were to come down to it being determined .. that merely gving away, trading/exchanging, or for postage costs, etc. was indeed breakin' the plant patent laws, etc. (as we've all done a minimum of a dozen times in our lives) ... Hee Hee .. Then, we've all just now incriminated 'ourselves' right chere!! ... LOL ...

This message was edited Aug 19, 2004 9:46 PM

They're comin' to take us away, ha-ha!!

What an interesting thread! I can understand a hybridizers viewpoint, but I would like to think the majority also realizes that gardeners will more than likely share/trade cuttings because they are gardeners themselves. In my opinion only, the high cost of new varieties available to nurseries and the public, as well as the price decline in a couple of years, is evidence of that.
If in doubt contact the hybridizer and you may be pleasantly surprised. I've contacted two in the past and they were very friendly and didn't mind if plants were shared with friends because it also gave them free advertising.

When it comes to collecting seeds, the resulting seedlings would not, technically be the same as their hybrid parent plant. Lately, I've been trying to decide what to call them. If a seed comes from an F1, is the collected seed F2? I generally say '2nd generation', but there must be a better way to say it.

F1 is the first generation between two stable OP varieties that create your original hybrid. The seeds that result will be called F2..even if nothing but the original plant pollinates itself. When you plant these seeds, the genetic material will start sorting itself out among the resulting seedlings and the offspring from them will be F3's. Hope this helps.

Yes, that does help. Thanks, Melody.