ANYONE HERE KNOW ABOUT CARS?

I have a 1990 Toyota Camry. It has always been a nice running car. Recently, it's been in and out of the shop because it just doesn't want to "go". It putters out, almost like it's running out of gas, but it's full. I have been stranded with it too many times to count, and have got pretty good at driving two footed with an automatic transmission, lol!

Well, we got disgusted with the first shop, $250.00 later and STILL not working, so we took it to Divines, that is expensive, but has a very good reputation. They kept it overnight, to let it get cold, and apparently the guy that drove it this morning barely made it back to the shop - almost had to call one of their tow trucks. They pulled the hood and looked and found that the air filter was in "backwards".

????????? No way! All this money and time, loss of work because the bus doesn't go where I needed to go and this?????

Could that possibly REALLY be the problem? And why would it run sometimes, but not all the time, and just get worse and worse and worse................ (like our bodies get older and older and older.....)

It's not one of those round airfilters like old cars, it's a small, rectangular one. DH had put it on for me. I don't understand how it worked fine at first, then started acting up in January...... this makes no sense to me at all.

Any knowledgeable posters to help me troubleshoot this would be greatly appreciated!

Karrie

Did it only try to cut out first thing in the am or only after youve driven it. would it restart after it cut out or do you need to let it sit for a while before it will restart. What did that first shop do for $250. Sorry force of habit and it can help narrow it down. I will ask DH if a backwards air filter could do that but it dosnt seem likely to me. My first thought is possibelignition coil-usualy have to let it sit and cool down before it restarts- or maybe even the catalytic converter on the exhaust-possible clogging. But remember its been awhile since this girl has been in the auto repair biz.
And have they checked the fuel pump, I dont think thats it..but...
Is it running better since they "corrected" the air filter? Any difference at all?

fuel pump, EGR valve, clogged fuel line all can cause cut-outs. Dunno about air filters installed backwards.

And with that, we can safely say we've plumbed the depth and breadth of my auto repair knowledge ;o)

you know, it really seemed like a "fuel" thing to me, but they all say it's not. It is very intermittent. Sometimes it runs fine when cold, but then cuts out when it warms up. Other times it just flat out won't run, period, even when cold. It is very very strange. DH is sure hoping it wasn't the air filter, as he's the one that put it on backwards, and gasps at the thought that it has cost this much money so far, to fix, lol!

Terry, you're a hoot! ;)

Has anyone checked computer codes yet? and if so was the computer holding any codes? sometimes on these newer cars the biggest expense is what it takes to locate the problem.

Fuel cannot be an intermitent problem, now fuel getting to the engine can be if there is a problem with the pump or pump regulator. For an intermitent problem your looking at something electrical like a part(coil, valve, solenoid,ect. or a wire being loose possibly.


This message was edited May 26, 2004 5:57 PM

This message was edited May 26, 2004 5:59 PM

Yes - there was an error "24" code, the first time in the shop, then it "suddenly" went away........ (twilight zone? perhaps my car should be named Christine?)

LOL Nope that happens sometimes, did they say what that code can mean? Every car is different so codes for a toyota will mean something totally different on a ford.

something to do with the air intake valve - I told Divines about it yesterday when I dropped the car off for them.

IAC(idle air control). Does it have its problem at idle?

yes! most of all!

DH said the air filter will not cause that problem. Repeat WILL NOT. Of course you want it on the right way due to air flow but its not gonna cause a performance problem. See what this new place says when they check it out. Unfortunatly there are alot of things it can be, DH said its a possability it could be the IAC but of course he would need to check the car also to be sure if its that or something else or a combination , just too many things on newer cars, not like the old days when even my Grandma could diagnose and fix it.

The Idle Air Control valve is one cause for this but not the only one, and it does just what its called controls the air regulation at idle.

I'm printing this out to show to our trust worthy mechanic to see what he has to say about this.
Will get back to you on his reply.

Are you taking this to a Toyota dealership? They should charge 1 hour diagnosis if the car is "acting up" for them. Then charge part(s) and labor for replacing part(s). They should keep the car overnight and verify the repair. An excuse after that is BS and don't pay for unneeded parts. $250 and not fixed! Blackball that place to everyone you know. Frank, ASE certified Master Tech.

Hmmmmm - this air intake valve thing is really ticking away in my brain.

No, I didn't take it to the dealership, because they are SOOOOOOOOO spendy! The first two times in the shop, where I blew the $250 (that included one towing for $30) I brought it to my neighbor friend's shop. I think he's a very nice man, I just don't think he understood the problem. In fact, the 2nd time, he drove it to work, so he could actually experience the problem. Yep - he told me he had to two-foot it to get it there. He said he cleaned the throttle plates and adjusted the idle, then, that evening drove it home, gave us the bill, and said it was running. NOT! I let the car sit from Fri. night until Sunday, and then took it for a drive - and it was not fixed at all. In fact, I think whatever he did to the idle made it worse.

So - we went to plan B and took it to Divines, one of the best in town. A little more spendy, but they have a good reputation here. They let it sit overnight, then took it on a test run, and sure enough, barely got the car back to the shop without a tow. They then opened the hood and noticed the air filter was on backwards. They turned it around, and it ran fine after that. They let it sit for about 3 or 4 hours after that, and then started it up, and said it runs fine now, come pick it up. We told them to keep it overnight, and do another test on it in the morning. For some reason, after you get it to run, it will run fine all day long. It has to sit overnight to have the problem. Originally, the car ran fine when it was cold, and as soon as the temp needle would go up, that is when it started acting up (like halfway to where I was going to - so I'd get stranded). I think on Sunday, when it ran bad even when cold, had something to do with that idle having been adjusted. perhaps?

I am wondering now......... could the air filter being put on backwards, do damage to the air intake valve? Cause it to malfunction? It seems to me, if I remember correctly, the problem was happening PRIOR to Russ putting on the new air filter. He had put on a new fuel filter and air filter, hoping to stop the problem, back in early early January, and it didn't work - problem wasn't solved, and that is why we ended up taking it to a mechanic.

I really appreciate all this feedback - it helps give me ideas to give THEM to help troubleshoot the situation. I have made up my mind that when we go to pick up the car tomorrow, I'm going to try and make a deal with them........... "If the car breaks down, come tow it back FREE (they own a towing company as well) and make sure sure sure I don't come get it again until it really is fixed." I think that is only fair. They probably aren't even charging me much in the morning, as all they did was drive it around and turn around the air filter. Unfortunately, I don't think that is the whole problem. It might have added to the problem, but I don't think that is what it is. I will definitely suggest to them to check the air intake valve if the problem persists!

Any other posts in regards to this are definitely ASKED for, as I will print this out in the morning and show to Russ, and the mechanic when I pick up the car.

Thanks so much for your help, ideas, & Co Co - going the extra mile. You are all so wonderful!

Karrie

Dravencat wrote:

>For an intermitent problem your looking at something electrical like a part(coil, valve, solenoid,ect. or a wire being loose possibly.<

I will make sure that is noted as well!

Yes please tell me what they say. Im very interested one way or the other. Never too old to learn something new or if your wrong to learn the right way. Im going by my own experienc from working in a shop(not a mechanic-sorry) and DH who is a mechanic(10 years professionaly-dosnt include his knowledge from beforhand) I did ask him about the air filter because it did not make any sense to me for that to cause the major problem your having.
Intermitent problems unfortunatly can be harder to correct because they are intermitent so it can take longer to find whats causing the problem in the first place and then retest it from there. They should definatly keep it overnight to be sure.
Let us know what happens from here Karrie.

Did they check the simple stuff.... such as if ALL of the spark plug wires are properly attached? I had a car that did that to me and one of the wires was off. Just a thought.

Went to go pick up the car - guess what - got it half way home and it did the same thing. I had to have it towed back. This is rapidly becoming a big pain in the tail!

Holey Moley.

I have had similar problems before and it was the coil wire.

Oh my I fogot about that one, ignition coil, that will cut your car off when it gets hot when it is going bad and then you have to wait for the car to cool down before it will start again.

Thanks woodspirit1

Well, I just called them (it's 4:30 here) and told them about that. They said they ran it around all day today with no problem. I told him, "that's what it does, once you actually have the thing running - even if you let it get cold. If you let it sit OVERNIGHT - then it will act up the next day." So they are going to hook a computer up to it while test driving it in the morning. He told me that he has an import specialist that will be in tomorrow that is going to take over the job. Keep fingers crossed! I highly doubt that I will see my car for at least a week, as the 3 day holiday is upon us, and I doubt they'll get it fixed tomorrow, and even if they thought they did, I would want them to keep it overnight AGAIN (actually would be until Tuesday) and start her up again and test drive it to be sure it is really fixed this time so I don't try to drive it home and have to have it towed AGAIN. :(

Karrie, ask if they checked the Mass Airflow sensor.

DH is a master ASE too. Handy guys to have around. Til I need carpentry work...

Different story.

lol! will do! :)

I've only done Volvos for that past 20 years but see if the car has a time/temp. sensor. These used to malfunction and produce the wierdest symptoms. This sensor is for the fuel injection and usually would screw up by telling the control unit that your car was 20 below zero. Frank

Do you work for a Volvo dealership Frank?

I am writing all of these suggestions down, so that we have "some things" to look at. Thanks so much!

Karrie

DH said if the car died on you again, it should have set another code. First thing you do is have them check the computer codes again. He also said it sounds more like fuel injectors. They can cause intermittent issues.

Is your "check engine" light on? I don't know Toyotas. The only way a Volvo can die w/o setting a code is a bad cam position sensor. The control unit thinks you switched off the car. I don't even know if a Toyota uses one. Does the car have OBDII plug? Do they even know if the problem is in fuel or ignition? Also, each cylinder has its own intake valve(s), there isn't just one for the whole engine. Keep us posted so we can all go "of course,that was it" (Hind sight being 20-20)

nope - the "check engine" light is not on - that is one of the very first things we checked. They also do not know if the problem is fuel, ignition, or even air intake. If getting this thing fixed nickel and dimes me to more than this car is even worth I am going to be one very uptight lady, as I already know I need to replace all 4 tires - so there's even MORE money ahead to spend on this car.

My daughter, the car salesman, would say TRADE!

LOL

how do you "trade" a car that someone is incapable of test driving without getting stranded, lol! That's the dilemna - believe me, I've thought about it! :)

Several of the dealerships she has worked at, do not test drive a car of that age. They assume it ran onto the lot, and depending on how the customer treats the salesman, can affect how much you get in trade. Not much, believe me! But at end of the month, sometimes they get hungry to get numbers up for the month. She once got the tower to give her $1000 trade for a 15 year old pickup with 200K miles on it, just so she could make her quota of sales for the month so she didn't lose her job.

Actaully Toyotas are so reliable that I'll bet this is the first major problem for this car. They are truly wonderful vehicles. But then again, so are most of the Japanese cars. Even the Korean Hyundai is getting decent ratings in Consumer's Reports nowadays.

Yes - this is the very first major malfunction of this car. It also, believe it or not, only has about 85,000 miles on it, and if you take care of Toyotas, can get over 200k. I've always liked this car and really hope not to dump it. They didn't call us today, so I probably won't hear from them until at least Tuesday. I think they know they need to let it sit overnight, but their shop is closed now until Tuesday. Who knows..... I don't want it back until it is FIXED.

hope it works out for you

This message was edited May 31, 2004 2:18 PM

Can you believe they STILL have my car and haven't figured it out yet?

Karrie.. I feel for U as we are having problems with our GMC pickup truck. We think the problem is in the fuel pump & it was replaced but now it is blowing the fuse. They put a new switch on it but it still blew the fuse. They put another switch on it today so we will see. DH drove it home today (12 miles) & no blown fuse. We want to drive it to Ohio next week if my health is OK by then & the dr will release me. I sure hope it is OK now.
Car problems can be fun can't they :0)

Well, they hadn't been able to get the car to act up, now for a week, so we went ahead and brought it home. (ran fine all the way home this time). We know there is still something wrong, obviously, but if they can't get it to act up when they have it, they can't trouble shoot it. I figure if it's running now, I can at least use it to be able to run to the store, etc...... I have not enjoyed being stranded for this long.

Karrie, just stumbled across your posts. We had a 1988 Camry and after it got to be 11 years old it would do the same thing. It was the ?distributor cap (is that what it's called - the thing wires come out of and go to the spark plugs?). Anyway it was ventilated? or had some sort of hole in it - the hole was meant to be there. But it let moisture in, and made the wires go bad. And the cap & wires were all one piece, so you couldn't just change the wires. So my DH used some kind of super marine bond to close the hole in the cap and that fixed the problem forever.

Long shot, but maybe worth looking into.

Eileen