Trading plants you've recd. for postage

Is it fair to get these plants for postage then turn around and post them for trade on another garden forum? What do you think?
Also keep in mind that by getting double of these plants for postage some DG members weren't able to get them.

This message was edited Tuesday, Jul 1st 5:04 PM

datdog, I'm not sure how to answer your question, but here's a parallel thought that may give some insight.

In the past, I have given things to a relative, or a friend. I learned I had to let go of what they then did with the item, because once it was theirs, I had no more right to an attachment. If you give something with strings attached, is it a gift?

Likewise, if an agreement was made for a plant for postage, what rights should the sender have if the postage was paid?

Morality is a whole other issue. It seems that what goes around, comes around. I find it's not my business to judge someone else... it's hard enough to judge myself.

datdog, I would say it is not fair to request specific plants with the intention of trading right away, especially if asking for doubles, one to keep, one to trade. It would be thoughtful to permit other interested members to obtain at least one of a variety, knowing how popular some items are. However, if the person offering the plants placed no restrictions on doubles, it may not be inappropriate. As darius pointed out, there were no strings attached. My question is why would these plants be offered on another forum instead of here, knowing some people missed out on varieties they had hoped for.

There are opportunists everywhere, but I have seldom seen them here on DG.

My question exactly Pardancanda. That is what really rubbed me the wrong way. Darius, I didn't think so either.

I dont think it's ethical but as said above, there is little you can do about it.

At the end of the day someone somewhere is going to get a plant they really wanted that has been in the post for anywhere between 1 to 3 weeks even in a good postage system ... I don't think there will be too many forthcoming trades for that person in the future if the plants arrive in a sorry state.

This message was edited Tuesday, Jul 1st 5:43 PM

I am sure my opinion will be unpopular but that is why we have these discussion forums right-for discussion? I think it is unfair to ask for double freebies with the intention of using the spares to get yet more for ourselves. Paying postage for plants is not the same as buying them. It would be one thing to buy one or even get one for postage then propogate it for trade. I think one has taken serious advantage of someone's generosity if they purposely requested duplicate plants for their own personal gain with preplanned ideas on how to use them. I'd say it is one thing if a person offers "Forty pounds of black eyed susans or they are compost" and something different to say "I have these really special, really hard to get plants and I am willing to share". Legally, no, there is nothing wrong with it. But I don't really feel like it is a nice way to act. Once I run out of room, or seasons change, I have been known to part with special/duplicate plants too. But, I would never feel right about asking for them just to trade them for more/others.

For the record- I assumed this is the reason someone asked for two of everything. I don't know this for a fact.
I did email this person suggesting they offer these plants for postage on Daves. I haven't heard anything back. I sure hope I do. I hate to see someone very kind taken advantage of.

I guess I am naive Darius, or hope for the best, most curteous behavior from people. I assumed it was to make sure one of each lived, you know like a back up in case something happened to one.

Maybe they wanted the same plant in more than one place in their garden..There could be lot's of reasons for asking for double..Also the sender could say no to doubles..Once I send plants to someone, what they do with them is their business, or else I would not offer plants for postage...
Larkie

This message was edited Tuesday, Jul 1st 3:00 PM

If this is the who and what I am thinking it is, the plants were immediately posted on another site for trade. :(

On the other hand, say you have XX to trade, and I want YY and know someone who has YY who will trade for XX, is that reasonable?

(I always like to give the benefit of doubt. Besides, I've made trades, received them, and then found they weren't best in my garden.)

If You are wanting XX and someone I know has it and wants the YY you have I would email both of you and let you decide if you wish to make the trade regardless of wheter on this forum or another. I would not act as a go between and have the plants shipped to me first and then trade them on down the line. As Baa stated the post times would double and the amount of stress on the plants would be doubled as well. This way you have the opportunity to get what you want, decide not to trade with an unknown or go for it.

BUT! If I were trying to establish a large area on a limited budget doubles on some trades would be fantastic! I would not have the nerve to ask for doubles if others had voiced a desire for them though....

And while I do not know who you are refering to I do know that if I felt certain they were doing this I would be very reluctant to send them anything in the future. After a while enough folks will start noticing the behavior and the person will find very few people willing to send them anything. Our reputations on line are important just as they are at home or at work. So I am slow to criticism and quick to contact a person and ask them directly for an answer if I have doubts.

I do appreciate the fact that you did not give a name here because the public blacklisting concept is abhorrid to me!

Has nothing to do with asking for doubles- it has to do with the person posting them for trade as soon as they were received.

This message was edited Tuesday, Jul 1st 5:43 PM

I think the underlying discussion of the whole thing is that the plants were not traded for in the beginning. The were gotten for free/postage only. The person sending got nothing in return. They grew out all the plants, found themself in a tight corner and offered to share their bounty which made a lot of work for them. Instead of sending a few to a lot of people, they sent a lot to a few people (yet, others got a few while some got none-even though the person sent out a ton!). Some of the people actually intend to grow them all while others only got them so they could get more. Whew! Do I have this right?? LOL

Would it be appropriate for the person offering plants for postage to decide not to send the large amount to one person, in order to be able to share with more people? Or is it more of a 'first come first served' kind of thing?

The ethics and politics of plants for postage is new to me. The few I've done have been so sweet and generous that I can't fathom taking advantage of them.

Cheri'

Well Since you are discussing me I will post here so you all don't have to run over to the other forum to see who the evil perpetrator is.

I have had them two weeks so did not "offer them for trade immedialty after receiving them"
Yes, I got double of certain varieties.
No, I had no intention of trading them. I had planned to line a 30 foot walkway with them on both sides....in Large pots because they must be taken in for the winter here.
All plans led to me putting them in my new greenhouse I was getting this fall....
Situation arose with my daughter that I do not care to explain...I will not be getting a greenhouse.
I have room in my home for one pot of each of these brugs...so I offered them in trade.
I did not require anyone to send me extravagant expensive things for these brugs...and you might be surprised just who they are going to and what may or may not have been traded for them. They are going to a place that i KNOW will take great care of them and enjoy them.

I have sent many things for postage AND for free but I digress and do not intend to "tout" my self-richeousness.

I am completely thankful to Cala for letting me have the brugs and I will carefully take care of one of each of them in my home this winter.

I am so glad that none of you have ever traded ANYTHING you got for postage...good for you.
Do not send mail to my mailbox with return addresses from Bogus e-mails. I am not interested in arguing or dukin' it out with someone who has differnt views than mine. Your views are your own and you are welcome to them....and I am welcome to mine.

I have nothing else to say on the subject. I hope you have enjoyed making someone's day miserable.



This message was edited Tuesday, Jul 1st 4:54 PM

There is nothing wrong with saying one per customer or on the other end of the spectrum must take all. As the person offering you may set your terms however you wish. After all
on a postage only trade you are giving a gift to the recipient. The generousity of plants for SASE is a great thing amongst garden friends and one that should leave the giver feeling good about their generosity and not leave them feeling used.

I have done sase both ways in the past and it was always a special feeling to be able to give someone something they wanted. It was also a great feeling to be on the recieving end of a SASE and know that the person who sent their plants or seeds to me was a generouse spirit and the plants were more special because of their being a gift.

There is no nicer feeling than showing off plants in my garden that I got from friends online. I call my new garden a friendship garden because half the plants and all the seeds I have planted so far have been recieved as SASE or trades. It would be awful if I thought my gifts either given or recieved were not appreciated but were just a ploy of some sort!

ArtyMiss

Thanks for posting and putting us in the picture, your situation clearly isn't the question that was first set out and that posted question was the basis I personally answered from.

I have been on the receiving end of the kind of trading that the first post describes, not your situation. I spend a lot of time and energy finding various plants and like yourself, enjoy trading and sharing my plants and seeds.

I sent several packs of very difficult to get hold of seed that really needed to be planted out ASAP to a trader only to find that on looking through the net several days prior to the acknowledgement of receipt of my seeds, they were listed and being actively traded. My return trade took over 3 months to arrive, I suspect they were from another source than the original trader and they had to wait for them to come through. I doubt very much that the seeds I sent would grow well for the new trader and it makes me feel like my seeds are no good despite the fact the last person to get them would be unlikely to even know of my existance. The seeds I received have had a very poor germination.

Your situation is somewhat different, the intention was there but a change happened so you couldn't follow your original plan. These things happen to us all and I'm sure we all understand that. I think many, like myself, are answering a very different kind of senario to yours rather than making personal comment.

I guess the honeymoon is over. I subscribed to Dave's Garden because everyone here seemed so nice, so enthusiastic and so eager to help others. I used to participate in a restaurant forum here in New Orleans but the atmosphere got so bad from comments members would make about each other that I don't ever go there anymore. It takes very little to turn these things ugly. I know each of us (myself included) will get irritated from time to time about things that happen here, but in the grand scheme is it worth hurting someone's feelings over? The thing about venting in such a general way is that the real "perpetrator" won't care what's said about him and nice people like ArtyMiss get hurt feelings.

Just my two cents, Mary Ann

Since Artymiss said the discussion was about her, I went and did a bit of research. She posted she received her plants on Jun 18th and they were posted for trade on June 30th. Is it possible some of us put the carriage before the horse or was it not about her at all??
Arty, I am sorry you did not get your greenhouse. I know how that is. I had the money set aside some four years ago and my hubby lost his job. We went from $70K a year to unemployment of $12K. It was bad!

I am sure the original message was about me...as Datdog sent me a pleasant e-mail while another member sent me a scathing one.
Thanks Baa and Zulu and Badseed. My heart is broken enough over certain things in my life. I should just not come to read this thread anymore but I cannot stop going over and over it

ArtyMiss... Misunderstandings are a part of life. BUT, if we do not persevere until we all (almost, anyway) understand each other, there is never any resolution. I never held anyone in jeopardy over this situation, and hope you will not think unkindly of us here at DG. After all, we are just as apt to human frailties as you.

None of my business but here is my 25 cents.

Our counselor said that 99 percent of hurt feelings come from misunderstandings and miscommunications, and that most of the time, the person who hurts your feelings is horrified that they have hurt you.

Conversely, when we are assuming the worst in someone or if something appears to be a certain way and we do not know the whole story, human nature is to get your nose bent out of shape when the best thing to do is to ask the person straight out what is going on.

These are Biblical principles - if someone has sinned against you, go to him/her. If they repent, forgive them. If they don't, take another person or two to try and get them to understand. If that doesn't work, take the elders, and if THAT doesn't work, then they are treated as a stranger. I have NEVER seen it where the person even got as far as elders - at least in my life.

IF we do these things Biblically usually everything turns out fine and we can all, as far as possible, live in peace with one another.

Praying for peace between us all.

Love
Janie

I seem to have open mouth insert foot syndrome every now and again. My intention was not to hurt anyones feelings. When I came across the post in question, I must admit I was shocked. Not because someone was trading plants they received for postage. But for the simple fact these were plants that other DG members would have loved to have. They were posted on DG for postage. They were hard to come by plants. In my mind I thought they should have been offered to DG members first. This is what I get for thinking. Next time I'm ticked off I'll sit on my hands- promise! datdog/kristi

You're a lady and a scholar datdog! It takes guts to come back like you did. You're a class act!

Mary Ann

Datdog, I guess the only way I can explain where I posted for trade is just...that is where I always post for trade...
That is all I use the other forum for...trading...and have done it for 2 years

I have rarely traded through Dave's. I mostly come to Dave's for the relaxing enjoyment and to watch the comradery between members.

Perhaps I should have offered them here first, it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks and I am sorry

I was a die hard 'other place' member for about four years, even subscribed. Then some things got ugly there. After that I was pretty much here and only here, but still checked in over there. I left many friends behind. For the record, Arty was not the only one to re-offer her plants. It would be nice to "keep it in the family", but maybe that is not always possible?

what???? other garden sites besides DG?? not for me!!

Maybe I should just keep out of this discussion, but for the record, I have to put in from my own perspective.

Last fall and this spring, I offered huge numbers of plants here (only here) for postage. I had so many extra plants, and it was a joy to find homes for them, rather than composting them as I have done the last couple of years.

I have gotten messages from other people that I was just asking to be taken advantage of; that some of the people here would immediately trade them for what they wanted.

I offered plants for postage because I wanted them to have a new home, and also because I have made so many friends here who have been very generous. If there have been a few members who have taken advantage of me, I don't want to know about it: I would prefer to keep the same very high opinion of my friends that I have always had. After all, gardeners are very friendly, generous people :) The ground gives to us abundantly, and I try to do the same.

ArtyMiss, I am so sorry that you feel you are being talked badly about. Please don't give up your good feelings about DG members: we are really good people. And I do believe that you are, too. I am sorry you weren't able to get your greenhouse, and I hope it will come to you soon.

Kathy

Artymiss, Are they still up for trade? If so , what other site are we talking about? I Like to trade plants too, but don't know where you are talking about. Thanks, Lou

Lou, I am sorry..they are all gone but I will be happy to take cuttings from mine in later for you. just let me know

My 4 cents worth,,,life is surrounded by simple circumstant that directs everything we do. While we may believe we can control events in our own lives, we are not capable of controlling events in the lives of others. While it may have been prudent for ArtyMiss to send an email to the original given, explaining as she did here, about her circumstances; no explanation takes away her right to do as she pleases with plants she received fairly. The human trait of *giving* falls in the same category as *love*,,,and we all know that *unconditional* love is the only true love to give and receive. On the other side of the coin,,,when I receive a plant/s from a fellow gardener, I am hard pressed to ever part with it,,but, as ArtyMiss explained, I would rather trade the plant than destroy it. In my humble opinion.

I rarely add my 2 cents to posts like this but I just wanted to say ArtMiss is a nice lady and a generous person.

She explained in her post on the other site that she planned on getting a greenhouse and couldn't get one any more. I saw no problem there. Its better to trade then sending to the compost pile. Even if she didn't explain her case I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

I am not trying to pick on datdog or anyone else in this post. It seems it was just a misunderstanding. We all have them :) I do object to people sending ArtyMiss nasty emails.

I also just wanted to say that I used to visit alot of gardening websites but now I only go to two. This one of course, and that other one. I definitely spend the most time here since I have had nice exchanges with several people and everyone has made me feel welcome including ArtyMiss. The other one seems more impersonal and there has been alot of negative posts lately, or maybe thats just my perception. I hope this place stays as welcoming and warm as I have found it since I joined :)