seedlings to success

OK...this is going to sound stupid but here it is. I can grow all sorts of difficult ferns etc. but seeds? Phooey! I get hem germinating days ahead of schedule and get so excited. I baby them and they get scragglier and scragglier. They rarely make it to adult. If they get to the transplant stage (which is always a mystery to me...when are they pottable size...they will be grown in containers) they poop out just after transplanting. Someone suggested I use the jiffy pots but I always think that they would make rooting even more difficult. Well, now I have some morning glory seeds, armenian basket flower, canary creeper and a couple of others that have sprouted. I have them in flats with individual compartments and they are in bright light...outside in the day in in the evenings as we have had some ery cold nights...not freezing but cold. Now what??? I just don't understand what I do when they become teenagers...as I say they just poop out...often the main stem shriveling at the soil line. Help! I am always so enthralled and thrilled when they sprout but I know I am just setting myself up for frustration but I KEEP trying!

Dale,

I sure hope you get some good information here, as I have the same problem. I get so frustrated after watching them grow...and then die!

Donna

Dale

How big are the individual cells and how many to a cell?
What growing media are you using?

Straggly seedlings are caused by several things; too little light; too much light; too rich a growing media; too much water; being sown too close together and probably a couple of other things someone else might mention that I haven't thought of.

The shrivelling at soil level sounds like the roots have been burned by too much fertilizer in the media. Jiffy pots/Jiffy 7s don't have that problem because there are little if any nutrients in the peat. (Again we come to the environmentally friendly question here). Seed planting compost is available and specially mixed for this purpose if you're not confident enough to make your own yet. I use various mixes, and sometimes just sow larger seeds in vermiculite alone, they cope until the 4-6 leaf stage without nutrients.

If your seeds are 1 to a cell, they can remain in the cell until they have about 6 true leaves, more if they are quite large cells. If they are sown closely together then they need to be transplanted at the 2 true leaf stage. You will lose some moving them at this stage and must be especially careful with all seedlings not to break any roots.

When transplanting make sure all equipment (inc. pots) is sterilized, even if it's with just boiling water with a tiny drop of household bleach (and I mean tiny) and never use old compost to repot them with. Kathleen has often said she uses cold chamomile tea to prevent damping off, it might be worth giving the transplants a first water with it or a similar preparation to help prevent fungal attack.

Bright sun light can burn the delicate leaves even on a winters day. If the case is that they are in bright sunlight then shade them with a piece of white paper during the middle of the day. Behind glass on a windosill or in a greenhouse will reduce the amount of light moderately this time of year.

This message was edited Saturday, Jan 11th 5:59 AM

Dale, the seeds you mentioned would probably do fine if you planted them directly in the ground. I know you already have these going ... but try seeding a few things right in the ground if you have any left. Morning glories grow fast. I start them just a couple of weeks early or they'll end up a tangled mess before I can plant them out. With your long growing season I bet you could direct seed just about anything.

The cells are 2" and I have used all manner of soils...from soiless mix to potting soil out of the bag. I know I could plant directly in the ground but am going to put all of these in pots so I thought it best to start them in small cells...do you think sow them directly in 6" pots? And when they get 4-6 real leaves should they go directly in the size pot where they will remain? They are not getting an inordinant amount of sunlight and no direct sun. I've even turned them when they lean toward the lught...plant aerobics! I've tried seaweed mix for transplanting to prevent shock....maybe it's just me!

Dale 2" cells should be fine until the 6 leaf stage except maybe the MGs. I personally wouldn't transplant any seedling too often, one disturbance is enough, you could plant them from the 2" into their final pots or even sow direct into the final pots.

I don't know what the growing medias you are using contains as far as fertiliser goes but since everything else seems ok I'd say it was those that are causing some of your seedling problems.

I have had pretty good luck sprinkling chick grit (pulverized granite) on top of my seedling trays. It will sometimes get a greenish tinge, but it doesn't get slimy like the bare surface can. Trial and error has taught me the things Baa mentioned, plus a few others worth repeating, if it helps you :)

Prevention:
1. I use the plastic domed lids when I plant, but the minute I see green, I stick something between the lid and the flat to start letting in some air. As soon as the majority of the seedlings are up, off goes the lid.

2. Provide enough light, but not too much; keep the grow lights almost on top of the things so they don't stretch for light.

3. Enough moisture, but not too much. When the flats start to feel "light", I bottom water (I use the flats that hold 12 6-packs. I lift one out 6-pack; pour in 2-3 cups of water, replace the 6-pack. Check back in an hour or so and dump out any remaining.

4. If the room where I keep seedlings gets stuffy (it's a southern exposure, so by early spring it can get pretty warm in there), I pull out the oscillating fan, and aim it to blow just above the tops of the plants. That keeps air moving, but doesn't dry them out.

5. If I have to err on one side or the other, I want to err toward a bit cool and a bit dry over a bit too warm and/or too moist.

6. Don't start plants too early. Of course, in your zone that isn't as big a risk as it is here. But fast-growing herbs, vegetables and flowers can quickly get to transplant stage, long before mother nature is ready to cooperate. (This one is probably the hardest for me to do; I always start getting antsy in early February, and I've learned it's better to wait on most plants until middle or late in the month, which coincides with 6-8 weeks before last frost.)

Remedies:
1. I've used hydrogen peroxide mixed in with water to stop mold from growing, with mixed results.

2. When I've had severe mold problems, I've gone so far as to prick out the seedlings, and replant them in fresh medium, and completely dispose of the old.

3. I've also heard a bit of tea tree oil (tiny tiny amounts) mixed in with your water can stop damping off, but I haven't personally tried it to know if it works or not.

4. Chamomile tea is another one that some gardeners swear by.

5. Sprinkling the top of your soil with ground cinnamon is supposed to stop/prevent mold; it sure would smell nice, if nothing else!

Dale, as to your question about planting seeds directly into the eventual containers, I successfully grow nasturtiums and MGs from seed sown directly in the spring. I keep the pots in a shady area until the seedlings are about the size everyone talks of: 4-6 true leaves, then gradually move them into full sun, starting with mid-afternoon sun, the rest of the day shady, then moving gradually back to all-day sun. (I don't have anywhere in my yard that gets early morning sun that everyone recommends), but that would be better, if you do. Just an hour or so a day at first, then slowly increase the amount of time in sun.

Since you live in FL, if you have access to fresh kelp, that might also help alleviate some of your fungus problems. I have seen many articles that kelp mulch prevents mold/fungus problems. Just make sure it is rinsed completely clean of salt water.

Can someone give me a good definition of "damping off?"

Here: http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/237.html and here: http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/1108.html

More details: http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/DG1167.html

And photos: http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=damping+off&sa=N&tab=wi

In the case of mould and fungi on the soil I tried sprinkling ground cinnamon on the fungi, it disappeared quite quickly but I had to reapply at intervals. Won't help with damping off though, can you get Cheshunt Compound in the US? Cheshunt Compound is a good treatment for that.

I am using Daconil at half strength
TLC

WOW! This thread is going to be printed out and kept!! Thanks for the great info! Jo

I used to have problems with damp off disease but none at all since I started spraying seedlings with camomile (sp?) tea. I make if full strength, let it cool and then mist the seedlings with it once a week. I have no idea why this works but it sure has for me.