osteospermum and salpiglosis

This past summer in the UK we saw these flowers and would like to have them here in Maryland. I'd like to know if I can grow them in pots indoors, or else in the partial shade that we (and the British) have. If in pots, I can start in February and take them out in April when danger of frost is gone, as I do many other of my plants.
Also, I'd like to know where I can get seeds, and what choice of varieties we have. We especially liked the osteospermum "whirligig," and the salpiglosis we saw was partly black and very elegant. By the way, is it salpi-glosis or -glossis? I've seen it spelled both ways.
I'm posting this in the Annuals Forum as well as here in General. Thank you for your responses.
"Griffex"

Hi, griffex - welcome to Dave's Garden! I bet you'll get some attention with this question (for example, Mark should be showing up soon - he's quite an expert on Osteospermums) And we have many others who can help you.

As to your last question, I *thought* it was salpiglossis (with two s's), but I could be wrong ;)

Welcome to DG Griffex!

It is Salpiglossis. I'll leave the Osteospermum to Mark but I don't think Whirligig comes true from seed.

Salpiglossis is available from a number of seed companies in the US, Veseys is one. There are several mixes such as Bolero, Casino and Royale; also a number of named cultivars if you want a single colour.

Yes, I remember Weezingreens posting a gorgeous salpiglossis photo
Hi and welcome grifex :)

hi Griffex

there are two main types of Osteospermum available to buy.

half hardy and hardy.

The first ones are the so called 'Whirlygig aka 'Spoon Daisies'in the US, 'Zulu Daisies' and an endless number of others. These cant take any frost and need to be pampered by dead heading on a regular basis. Cuttings need to be taken in late summer just in case the parent plants get hit by frost.

My speciality is the hardy Osteospermums http://www.marksgardenplants.com/osteospermums.htm there are a few photos there that show a new stunning
?Osteospermum. I donr think these are Osteospermums but most likely one of the many Cape Daisies. The hardy Osteospermums can take -12C/0F - thats how cold they have taken in my garden. They are shy at setting seeds but root very easily. From a rooted cutting or a cutting that I can send to you they can produde a plant 2 or 3 feet across in a year or 2 rooting as the go. The Hardy Osteos dont flower for as long as the cultivars but they do put on on amazing show from May until the end of June and then on and off until the frosts come.

if you want to know anything else just ask.

Mark

Dear Mark
Thank you very much for the detailed answer. Of the two alternatives, halfhardy and hardy, I'd like to try both. My home office has become a shelter for homeless plants, and now includes a kumquat tree (which makes kumquats), two amarilli, some pineapple tops, three avocado trees started from pits, two asparagus ferns and a monster monstera, among others. As my winter is more severe than yours, if I need a half-hardy to get the whirligigs, I have to keep it indoors. I can also plant hardies outdoors where the neighbors can see the flowers and ask what they are. It doesn't get below 0 F around here. When you mentioned cuttings, do you mean both types, and is there any problem sending them to the USA? Please tell me what I need to do to get these.
Best regards
Griffex (Allan Griff)

Hi Griffex, welcome. I grow salpigloss (yet another spelling variation :) some years as an annual. In Ohio they require full sun, failing to flower in partial sun. I am not sure about conditions in MD. I set the seedlings out in mid-May and they are in flower by early July.

hi Griffex

the half hardy Osteospermums wont live inside, well they will, but they wont be good plants. they would need to be in a heated Greenhouse which doesnt drop below freezing.

I only keep hardy Osteospermums which root very quickly in the spring.

Mark

Welcome griffex, from one Marylander to another!! Which part of MD do you hail from? I'm in Ellicott City.

As for your posted message on varieties of Salpiglossis, here is a link to various threads on that subject. http://davesgarden.com/search/index.php?forum=&search_text=Salpig&limit=annuals&Search=Search
I believe I have seen it offered in the Thompson & Morgan seed catalogue, as well as, Seymour's Selected Seeds.

Hi Griffex, I had some experience with the 'Whirligig' osteospermum this year. We live in Zone 9 coastal Nor. CA., and when my 'Whirligig' evidenced hating the pot life, I threw it in the ground -- where it flourished, but for a while it lost the lovely "pinched" look to the flowers! Then it started to come back again, but some are still daisy-like.

'Whirligig' and its ilk are shrub-type osteos, sprawling and very vigorous. Mark had lovely pictures of the lower-growing, ground-cover 'Symphony'-- I have both Yellow and Orange, and the Orange Symphony is one of the loveliest plants in my garden.

Be aware these are like gazanias, they close up at night or in cool weather. If you're a working stiff you'll only see the flowers on the weekends when you can see your garden in the daytime. Also, they don't live long; 3-5 years on average.

Just what is the bonanical name for these hardy osteospermum? They might be an option here for me, since we seldom get down below zero. However, we have cool, wet summers, so that might be a problem. If I had the name, I could look up some info.

Osteospermum

Oh, Mark, you are such a twit. So, the Osteospermum that are hardy are exactly the same species as the one that are not hardy to lower temps?

just hold the mouse over the first eleven images http://www.marksgardenplants.com/osteospermums.htm and you will see the cultivar name

Yes, I did that Mark, and I saw the cultivar names, but my question is what makes them "hardy" as apposed to the others. Are the all the same type of osteospermum, but these cultivars were bred for hardiness, and if so, is there another genus name, rather than just the cultivar name. I grow plants from seed, so it is unlikely I would find seed for these cultivars.

it's like asking why does Pelargonium quercetorum take the cold but Pelargonium zonale doesnt. The same is for Geraniums.

These arent bred for hardiness but are cultivars of the hardy species like jucundum, caulescens, jucundum var compactum and ecklonis. The non hardy Osteospermums are annuals or half hardy. The Symphony series which may actually be Dimorphotheca and no Osteospermum. These plants go mad flowering for about 6 weeks and then die. Most Symphony plants available have been sprayed with a 'Bonsai' spray (a by product of space travel) to keep them small and slow their growth. They have to be dead headed continually and when you plant 250 like I did last year it's impossible to keep up.

You are only likely to get seeds of ecklonis which is creamy white with a dark blue eye. Other species will have to be ordered from Silverhill in the Cape area of S Africa.

You might find seeds on a cultivar but they wont come true because they are open pollinated. They are also very shy at setting seed. I can send you cuttings next year of the ones I have.

Thanks, Mark. That's what I needed to know. I'll do a bit of research, but I doubt they will winter over for me, as our winters are very wet. No sense it taking a chance sending cuttings if they won't make it here. I really appreciate the information.

but you cant be as wet as our winters. How wet do you mean?

Our winter weather changes rapidly. We may get a foot of snow, then it turns to rain, then it freezes again. We get layers of ice buildup that can cause standing water around the roots of plants during spring thaw. The most damaging winters seem to be the ones like that... lots of rain just before freeze, a hard freeze, then a partial thaw and more rain. We lose lots of spring bulbs in that sort of season.

Just wanted to say that the 'Yellow Symphony' osteo I have has spread nicely from a 1-gallon can to about 3' across. A companion died in our hot dry summer (it got smashed between a Pennisetum Rubrum and a shrub Osteospermum). The survivor has bloomed continuously since I planted it back in June of this year. The 'Orange Symphony' was planted in August or September 2002 and is still blooming daily.

I think they do best within a relatively narrow range of temperatures, nothing too hot or too cold, not too dry or too wet. Again, we're in zone 9 coastal Nor. CA, so many 'annuals' elsewhere are 'perennials' here.

Good luck with your garden!

Thanks, Jkom51. Good info.

Jkom

every now and then I would cut the plant back to remove the dead heads unless you are able to do it by hand on a regular basis.

Mark,
good suggestion, thanks! Our weather is starting to get really rainy and cold (it's one of our 'El Nino' years) so I'll have to see what survives, my poor bearded iris are starting to rot in the ground from all the wet. Might be a really wild winter, the forecasters are all saying.

Would really like to order some of the "Spoon" type Osteospurmum. Have not had luck finding this type in the mail order catalogues and on the internet.
Would have to treat it as an anual here but they are so pretty - it would be worth it to be able to have them!
If any of you find a source, short of driving to No Calif, please let me know.
Arlene

a supplier in Canada http://www.northerninnovators.com/osteospermum.htm#
look at the flowers on the second row down. The left one and right one. They look like the 'Symphony' series and are Dimorphotheca

and a supplier in the USA http://www.dscolegrowers.com/osteospermum.htm yet I'm frequently no-one sells Osteospermums in the US.

Maybe there need to be lessons on using search engines :-)

Mark,
Have been researching the "spoon" type for some time;
I have seeds for the other type of Osteospermum. But the spoon type, as I understand, do not come true from seeds; one must buy plants.

Your Canadian link shows a white one; have sent off an email to them inquiring.

You second link - the USA source - could you post it again as it did not work for me.

Thank you,
Arlene

PS Have been using Google as a search engine; do you recommend something better?
Thanks

the link is OK.

I use Google also but sometimes use Jeeves and Lycos

I've searched this thread, and I can't see the link that TwinLakesChef referred to... the second one with sources in the USA... what am I missing?

May I jump in here, Mark is correct the non hardy or half hardy osteospermums root very easily. Last year my daughter gave me 5 gallon pots of the two kinds of these, one purple spoon, one yellow, I bought an Orange symphony- it got smothered out by its neighbors. I took cuttings two different times from the purple spoon. I ended up with at least 150 plants. I also found out they were patented, so I could not sell them. Some of the spoons after cutting reverted back to a regular shaped purple daisy. They will take some frost, but nothing major here. I took cuttings this last fall off those first cuttings, I potted up about 30 yesterday of the purple yesterday. So it is worth buying a pot and then taking cuttings later in the summer and taking them again after they grow out. I first saw osteospermums on a trip to northern California about 4 years ago. They weren't seen up here at that time, but now they are very easy to find.

Good information, Lenjo. My problem with rooting annuals is that I have a very short season here, and my winters are not mild enough for most of the hardy ones. I know that they do well in local gardens as annuals, and I once started some myself, though I think they were the Dimorphotheca AKA Rain Daisies. I would certainly like to find a good hardy perennial that would grow from seed, but, I think it unlikely. I, too, would want to sell the plants.

Mark, I was able to get the DS Cole Growers link to work;
You are correct - saw a "spoon" daisey on their site which they do grow. They are located in New Hampshire on the East Coast.
They do not sell to the public but to people like BAll who actually sells to our local nurseries so - guess the next step for me is to contact the local nurseries and ask them if they would consider ordering them.

I do understand that the "spoons" cannot be started from seed to be true and from what Lenjo said - sounds like taking cuttings does not assure one of getting the spoon shaped blossom.

Sure do admire them. Maybe in the future they will be more popular with the local nurseries.

Thanks for you help
arlene