Gibberellic acid report #1

I planned to take measurements of perennials treated with gibberellic acid at weekly intervals, but the growth of some was so obvious today that I measured three days ahead of the planned schedule. Here are the most dramatic results. The first number is height last Saturday, within an hour of the first treatment. The second number is today's measurement. Remember, we're talking four *days*, but with temps much warmer that average. Underground sprinklers water the yard and flower bed every other day. I have *not* fertilized yet but should within the next day or two.

Delphinium: 37 1/2 inches, 45 inches
"Alaska" daisy #1: 26 inches, 29 inches
"Alaska" daisy #2: 27 1/2 inches, 31 inches
"Deiner's Double daisy: 20 1/2 inches, 24 inches
Feverfew: 8 inches, 11 1/2 inches
Purple coneflower #1: 10 inches, 13 1/2 inches
Purple coneflower #3: 14 inches, 19 inches
NOTE: purple coneflower #2 shows as 9 inches and 16 1/2 inches in my notes, but I need to double-check that tomorrow
Scabiosa (white): 11 1/2 inches, 18 1/2 inches
Lupine #1: 28 inches, 31 inches
Lupine #2,: 30 1/2 inches, 34 1/2 inches

I'm also measuring carnations, Silver Princess daisies and columbines, but their growth wasn't anything to get excited about. In addition to measurements, I plan to take photos at weekly intervals with a yardstick stuck in the ground as a point of reference. Other points of reference include a large piece of driftwood at the back of the perennial bed and the rear end of my car parked in the drive at the north side of the perennial patch. Points of reference for hanging baskets include the hangers themselves, siding on the house -- anything that people can can see to mentally register size changes.

I added corn, of all things, to perennial measurements this evening. The corn was "planted" by panhandling squirrels or birds. In fact, one "overview" of the perennial bed includes a squirrel on the driftwood and another on the lawn, heading for "peanut person." :)

The above measurements are *not* random. Each plant being tracked is staked with its name and number taped to the stake.

Shendoh, very impressive indeed. did you use pro-gibb?

and thanks for taking the time for this experiment, I have just been waiting to hear about your results...

If you use the GA, then you dont use any other fertilizer, is that correct?

<< did you use pro-gibb? >>

Yes, a 20 parts per million solution of Pro-Gibb.

<< If you use the GA, then you dont use any other fertilizer, is that correct? >>

Just the opposite. Gibberellic acid is a growth stimulant, a little like a super-super vitamin. You *force* growth beyond what the plant is programmed to do, so you need to supply additional water and fertilizer to keep the plants healthy and sturdy during their growth spurts. Imagine a teenage boy when "grow" kicks in. He eats anything and everything, including silverware. :)

are you putting pictures in your journal??

<< are you putting pictures in your journal?? >>

Duh! I don't have a journal. I have a digital camera that I haven't yet learned how to use. I did, however, shoot a roll of film Saturday as a "before" reference point in the gibberel experiment. Got the prints yesterday. They aren't Ansel Adams in quality, but they show what I was after -- how big plants were "before." My scanner is down, so I can't post pix yet -- if I knew how to post pix. I joined this list about three weeks ago, so have tons to learn. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

you can make a journal and put all your notes there. Get the book to your camera out! these sound like great reports and I'd like to follow along. and if I can work a digital camera, anyone can:)

thanks for the info about fertilizing, also other than buying the quart of pro-gibb, are there other products on the market? (I just cant afford the 71 bucks at this time)

<< also other than buying the quart of pro-gibb, are there other products on the market? >>

Yes. I found one Sunday night and have ordered a starter kit plus extra concentrate from the site. Prices aren't necessarily better than for ProGibb, but the amounts are smaller, so you can get a trial package for about $20. Here's the site's address: www.myMegaGro.com

Also, here's a copy of a post I wrote when I found that site. I was so happy to have found understandable info about gibberellic acid that I've forgotten where I posted the info. :-/

<< Persistence with a generous dose of dumb luck pays. I just stumbled onto a Web site with more good, easy-to-understand information on gibberellic acid than any sane person would want. But it sure delights those slightly insane about gardening. Here's the address: www.myMegaGro.com

It's a commercial site in that it sells gibberelleric acid under the trade name MegaGro. It has a detailed MegaGro user's guide, complete with index that includes houseplants.

What a relief to have instructions in plain English aimed at non-Einsteins! Can you imagine how frustrating it is for a math moron to try to figure out recommended concentrations on a per-gallon basis when most instructions are for *acres* of orchards and commercial vegetable crops? >>

SHENDOH, thanks for the site, I will go check it out. sounds a bit more reasonable for me.

Shendoh - I have a small bottle (30 ml) of 0.1% gibberellic acid solution that I bought for seeds. I wonder if I could use this to spray on plants? Would I just mix it with water? 20 parts per million? ... what would that work out to be - Like a couple of drops per gallon?

<< I have a small bottle (30 ml) of 0.1% gibberellic acid solution that I bought for seeds. I wonder if I could use this to spray on plants? Would I just mix it with water? 20 parts per million? ... what would that work out to be - Like a couple of drops per gallon? >>

poppysue: ProGibb is 4 percent gibberellic acid, and I use 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water for a 20 ppm solution. That's based on instructions on a long-gone bottle of Botane -- same stuff, different name and possibly marketed to home gardeners and houseplant freaks. My notes from 10 years ago, not the most detailed notes on earth, specify four ounces of Botane per 100 gallons of water. Because I'm a math moron, I worked that down to a per-gallon dose: 2 ounces per 50 gallons, one ounce to 25 gallons, etc. The notes say one half fluid ounce equals one tablespoon, so that, too, was worked down "mathematically" to reach the half teaspoon per gallon mix. Those figures could be wrong because I'm a math idiot. Whatever, the half teaspoon of 4 percent gibberellic acid per gallon of water works! IF ANYONE READING THIS THREAD UNDERSTANDS MATH, PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF I'M CORRECT AND IF NOT, WHAT IS CORRECT. Thanks. :)

Shendoh, do you have a 'control' - like in plants not treated with the GA but receiving the exact same conditions otherwise? I'd be interested to see how much of the growth is actually due to the GA alone.

Pam

What about a "control" group. No scientific experiment is complete or valid with out one.

Cala - you no chemistry :) What would this 0.1% solution be? A tenth GA-3? I'm clueless.

I was just checking out the posts and wondering if anyone else thought of a control group. I see you beat me to it, so I second or third, how about a control, so we can see what would have been the growth rate under the same conditions but without treatment?

let's see, 1% would be one to one hundred ratio, so 0.1% would be 1 to one thousand ratio, or 1000 PPM, is that right? My math is terrible. That seems a bit strong.

That's what the JL Hudson site says to use as a stock solution - and then dilute that down to 500ppm. My little 30ml bottle won't go too far if that's right.

No, I don't have any "control" plants, but that's a good idea and a good excuse to buy more perennials. :) I can plant them in an area I intend to turn into an iris* bed, away from other perennials with decent soil hauled in last summer. Lessee, coupla Shastas, matricarias, carnations, and whatever else blooms most of the summer or into fall. I'll try for a mix of intended-to-be short, medium and tall plants.

I *did* try a control 10 years ago -- two Hahn's self-branching ivies roughly the same size when the experiment started. They were side-by-side on the fireplace mantle, so they had identical growing conditions. I took some photos, but lord knows where they are now. As I remember, the gibrelled ivy was twice the size of the untreated one.

* Iris: Does anyone know of a good place to buy iris? I have a 2002 Schreiner's catalog. Wow!

Shendoh - check out Bert's iris co-op http://davesgarden.com/showthread/206187.html

There is no better place to buy iris than Schreiner's. They are always healthy, never a problem with getting the ones you order, and they have been around a long time so you know they know their stuff. The entire family is devoted to the iris business and they have developed many real winners. I am working on my order now.

There are 143 companies selling Iris listed in the Watchdog: http://gardenwatchdog.com/vbc/15/

I purchased G.A. from J.L. Hudson seeds also. This is the first time using it with difficult seeds to germinate. I purchase it because it speeds up the whole process of germination, without requiring the cold stratification, which can take several months depending on the type of seeds grown.

However, I never thought about using it on established seedlings or rooted plants. It will be interesting to find out your results Shendoh.

P.S. Are any of the seedlings or plants that you are spraying with GA-3, becoming elongated or "leggy"?

This message was edited Saturday, Jun 8th 11:01 PM

All of the brugmansia seeds that I used GA3 on didn't germinate.

The 25 perennials representing 11 species I'm monitoring grew an average of nearly five inches per plant in a week. Three were standouts: a delphiniumm, 14 inches; a purple coneflower, 12 1/2 inches; and a Stoke's aster, 11 1/2 inches.

They've received regular watering but no fertilizer yet.

The vertical growth is staggering, but the plants spread, and their flowers are proportionate to their height in number and size.

Most of these perennials were planted in 2001, so we're not talking about years to become established. A few were planted in 2000 and more this year.

I zapped a rose bed also, but I'm not monitoring those plants except visually. Hanging baskets and planters that contain annuals will be monitored only visually unless the blooms go crazy, then I'll take photos with a ruler behind the flowers as a point of reference. *Then* I'll get the scanner fixed (it's been disconnected several times in recent months for various reasons, so it might just be hooked up wrong) or learn how to use the digital camera. If the photos I see posted in DG are digitals, that's the way to go. Their clarity and color saturation blow me away.

Shendoh, I can't wait for further results, however, your results for the past week are exciting.
thank you for sharing your research (experimetns) with us :)

me too! I can't wait for an update on #2.

I have to say this, and I know y'all won't think me a kook. Every time I see the subject line, I misread it as "gibberish acid". But this thread is anything but gibberish! It's really interesting stuff!

Oh, y'all knew I was a kook, anyway.

<< I misread it as "gibberish acid". >>

Let's just call it GA from now on. Gibberellic and gibberel are too hard to spell, and for years I pronounced and spelled the stuff "gibRELL" because I misread the original Botane bottle label.

Tomorrow is official measurement day, though I've sneaked in a few unofficial measurements out of curiosity. Even the squirrel-planted corn in the perennial bed has put on three or four inches since last Saturday. That bed actually has a plan, but you'd never know it when you see corn mixed in with columbines and black-oil sunflowers here and there.

I'm gonna give the "control" planting one more week to establish roots, then zap it, probably with a GA solution stronger than 20 ppm.

Does this chemical improve root growth a well? It sounds like a super strong nitrigen, but that would burn the roots. My cousin told me that it worked well on her African violets. Norma

To poppysue and others. I was looking through the net, trying to get some technical info and other sources of Gibberellic acid. I ran across a site with a nifty solution calculator, you provide how much you want to make and at what concentration, and the purity of the product being added, it calculates the amount of material needed. The link is http://www.super-grow.biz/PPM.jsp the only downside is that the answer is returned in grams, so it assumes you are adding a solid and that you have an appropriate scale. There is also a % to PPM converter and CallaLilly, you were right on the money!

Thanks to all for the info and your experience on GA; I think I will try it.

Continued to explore this same site and it has additional tables for making up solutions (for it's products) -- Anyone have any experience with this vendor?

This message was edited Jun 19, 2006 5:33 PM

Hey Ya'll .. don't go GA happy .. If you use it too much it will make your plant stem brittle! I've been using it for years and primarly use it as a booster shot for slow growing plants and hard to germinate seeds. I learned the hardway that it should be used judiciously, especially on special plants.

X

Very interesting thread.

I would like to point out Shendoh, that your control shouldn't get any GA solution of any kind. It serves as a reference point or comparison for the plants that ARE receiving the GA treatment. Once you treat it with GA, it will no longer be a control.