Took a trip to a Yorkshire park today to see the spring bedding schemes.
Thought perhaps those who are not familiar with the modern double daisy (Bellis perennis) might like to see this pic.
Double! almost pompons.
Peter.
This message was edited Thursday, Apr 25th 3:57 PM
I've never seen those before - those are really spectacular! :D
I keep saying this over and over, but remember now I did have a huge garden back in England devoted to many, many plants. So, again - yes, I know these and love them!! :-)
These aren't the same as "pincushion" flowers, are they? They look a little similar to them.
Hello again gardenwife - sorry I can't help you with 'pincushion'. I gave up on the vernacular a long time ago. Its just too confusing; so many plants going by the same name. Area to area and country to country. Bellis perennis is the botanical name of the common daisy, and these are simply a cultivated strain of that. A long way down the breeding line from the single white daisy of our lawns :)
Glad they remind you of your garden in the UK Louisa
Peter.
Beautiful shot Peter, I think GW is thinking of Scabiosa.
Kimberly the seeds you get here call them English Daisy as the common name for them I am trying some this year. They sure look beautiful.
Hello all - time and again I try to keep off the subject of botanical nomenclature, simply because of not wanting to upset those who don't have a liking for plant names derived from the Greek and Latin. Botanical names.
Names in the vernacular are interesting, colourful and descriptive, but can be entirely misleading when it comes down to national and international communications.
Wherever I have lived there has been some wonderfully evocative plant names in the local language, but for each move (given a reasonable distance)many of these same names have been used to refer to entirely different plants.
I like the reading and hearing of these names, and will sometimes use them alongside the botanical ones, but always with the sure knowledge that they will go little way in giving a plant it's definitive identity. This can only be by way of botanical naming.
For those new to gardening and plant nomenclature, the web pages below may be of interest.
http://www.dwsn.fsnet.co.uk/Linnaeus.htm
http://www.dwsn.fsnet.co.uk/WHAT'S%20IN%20A%20NAME.HTM
Peter.
I've grown "English Daisies" in my garden but they really didn't reseed as readily as I had read they would, they must be a tender perenial in zone 5 for they only came back 1 year then vanished. I also read that have become very invasive in the U.K.--is this true??
Becky
I'm not sure what the English Daisy you are talking about is.
Bellis perennis is a native plant which does have some vigourous qualities, especially in some lawns but they aren't a great deal of trouble. The above double forms of Bellis perennis aren't invasive at all.
Last year I bought a few English daisies (Bellis perennis) at one of the home stores for a container garden. I fell in love with them and like "mystic", am trying to grow them from seed this year.
I completely understand that botanical names best describe a plant species, but they can be just as confusing and misleading, if not more, depending on the plant, especially to someone like me who is just learning. How many hundreds of varieties (cultivars) of hosta are there? Or roses? Sometimes something mnemonic as a common name is better for getting more people interested in the plant kingdom. And personally, I think we need more people intersted in plants and gardening.
I've started taking plants and gardening much more seriously now that I'm a home owner. More often than not, home stores and even garden centers will label a plant with a common name over it's botanical one.
I'm constantly searching this web site to find a section devoted to beginners and educating beginners and I can't find one. I've stopped by the master gardeners forums to look for assistance in methods and approaches to gardening and they all use botanical names. I have to admit, its intimidating. I've watched threads and noticed beginners like myself try to join in the conversation, and of course are questions stick out like sore green thumbs. Like all clubs, there are many snobby seniors that don't want to waste their time on freshmen. But there are a few of them here at Dave's Garden, who are very helpful and tend to use both the botanical name AND a common name in describing a plant.
I will always TRUST a botanical name over a common name when I want to learn more about that plant, as I think anyone would. I would advocate the use of both names in describing a plant, as we all tend to use the common names for describing a plant genus - ie: "rose, hosta, bean, daisy".
Peter great to see another member from the UK. I've down the path of botanical names many a time.
Mark
Those are really different of the wild ones that grow in Austria.. :) We have soem old small dark red ones, which grow in poor soil. :( Maybe I should replant them. I saw some very beautiful hybrids in Impecta Seed Catalogue.
http://www.impecta.se
(Sorry Peter for hijacking your thread)
Square Root
I agree that if we can we use both names sets so as to not alienate one or the other, that is the best way. It is a bit harder for the international members to know what the widely used common name is for a plant in North America. Those from countries where English isn't a first language have an even greater barrier.
I'm sorry if my question about English Daisy upset you in anyway. It wasn't a snobbish reaction it was simply a request for clarification, which you gave, thank you :) I am more than happy to find out a common name for people if they so wish and answer any question put to me to the best of my ability.
The thing about gardeners is that we are all learning, all of the time. Some have expertese on certain sections but no one knows everything.
And yes about the common names. Think how hard it is to me to know what plant are you talking about if you use common names ;) Last year I didn't even know what is carnation.. Dinathus would be a very clear answer. Think if I'd use Finnish names, hahaha. :p :] I really appreciate when you include a botanical name.
Peter, lovely little Bellis (:P) I have a few out in a very damp little side bed that all started out white, but the one that is now blooming is a deep, deep pink. I'm going to get some more to fill in where the others have died out. Zone 5 is very hard on them, although the actual species does very well and will survive in lawns for years.
Hello BJT72 - Baa has answered you as well as I ever could.
Remember - these are cultivars of the common daisy and far down the breeding line. Characteristics change.
Peter.
Sorry Becky,
I should have noticed your sign off name.
Here we grow them as biennials. It is the best way to produce numbers ; also, as cultivars they are unlikely to come true to seed if open pollinated.
Peter.
Second edit and still careless over my spelling.
This message was edited Friday, Apr 26th 1:57 PM
This message was edited Friday, Apr 26th 2:42 PM
Hello all,
Regarding plant nomenclature for those interested, I once again refer you to the two items on my web site. I don't evangelise - I just put my point to anyone interested in knowing what it is. My views are those put forwards to students when I was teaching practical botanical horticulture. Now, as then, I encourage people to form opinions by means of listening to more than one point of view.
Good gardening,
Peter.
I didn't mean to come across sounding so crabby about names used to identify plants. My point is that although latin names are more succinct in identifying specific plants as well as for taxonomy purposes, theres a certain amount of valid anthropology around a plant's name and existence too.
Aside:
Even though the US and is actively participating in becoming a mass monoculture (nationalism anyone?), the use of common names and other coloquialisms can become regional separations that can actually define a physical area, and defy the monoculture.
End of Aside:
I'm sure that before Margaret Mee started applying Latin names to plants she found in the Amazon River flood plains, that native common names existed to those plants as well. That information may not appear to have been relevant to Margaret Mee and her constituents, but it was to the people who lived there. If we weren't separated from one another by different education systems we would know. It wouldn't hurt to learn a little culture along with learning plants. So I say culture for everyone! Why not learn the common name for a carnation in Denmark or Spain or Taiwan -but only if there is one, no making things up! :)
Hello Mark,
send us some of your Irish gardening experiences; I for one would be vastly interested. I corresponded with gardening lady for a while who lived in Skerries. I think that was close to Dublin. Many years ago I spent some time on upper and lower Lough Erne.
Peter.
Hello Kathleen - your name reminds me of a favourite Irish song of the same name. Also, my second favourite is Irish - the Londonderry air (Danny Boy). It must be my ancestry calling me. I have a tenuous connection with potato famine immigrants.
Anyway! back to the garden. Yes, the modern garden cultivars and hybrids are less hardy than the type. This very often goes along with breeding. Crossing and re-crossing has got to have its price somewhere.
I remember well the ones you write about. I too liked the gradual change from white to pink; and in a way I liked them more than the almost pompon form of the ones in the pic. They were more identifiable as a mop-headed double daisy.
Bellis are used extensively here in the UK in spring bedding displays alongside Tulips, Myosotis(forget-me-nots)and to front beds of Polyanthus, to mention just a few. They stand over winter quite easily and liven up remarkably as the temperature rises in early March.
Peter.
i saw these in a seed catalog this spring. Didn't order them then but may have to try them next season! They are truly charming little puff balls!
Peter,
I was born in an Irish neighborhood in Rhode Island. My mother wanted to name me Katrin, but if the girl's name started with a Kat, it came out Kathleen. My family is more Dutch than Irish, and the Irish is only a rumor. A great grandmother from County Ayr in Scotland may have been a Kelly, but was more likely a Mac Donald. I don't know where the choice began, but it could have been here in the US after they immigrated.
The English daisies here are often tiny little lawn flowers. The library in a near by town has a yard full and they bloom summer long right after the weekly mowing. I don't know how they have managed to propagate themselves through all the chopping off, but they persist.
T&M sell these doubles as 'Pomponette'.
Zany and others interested I have a packet seeds that I will divide among you all or I can send to one of you to divide and mail.
Mark
Bellis (English Daisies) do very well here. I started some from seed the spring of 2000, and the spring of 2001, they came out of the snow and ice with buds! They bloomed quite early and bloomed on most of the summer. They self seed quite readily up here.
That is sweet Mark but we were so up in the air about moving that I still have a whole box of seeds to plant.
By the way you never did let me know what plant you wanted from California.
thats cos I've nener looked into it yet. it's geraniums of course!!
Mark
UHH DUHH! I should have known! Now we have it narrowed down a;; we need to know is which of the one or two cultivars out there is it you are seeking! :~)
