Manure

I know that cow manure has its uses in the garden - my mother used it every year in our family garden.

My question: Is horse manure just as useful and helpful in the garden? I have access to lots and lots of it, and am wondering if I should use it.

Dave

Dave:

Absolutely!

Let it cure first, though. New manure is too hot for seedlings.

How long must it cure? Does it cure itself by just sitting in the pasture?

Dave

The manure that you collected for me as a child was dried up cow patties, which is fine to put on a garden or dig into a garden. I would think the same would be true of any type of dried animal manure. If you have access to fresh manure, it would be an excellent addition to a compost pile. You would have to add some plant material (grass, leaves, vegetables, fruit). I remember as a kid growing up on the farm in Wisconsin, my dad would clean out the barn, (which was a stinky job). Then he'd pull the manure spreader behind the tractor and the manure/straw mixture would be spread out onto the fields during the winter. So that was not dried-up manure; however, it was applied to soil several months before seeding time.

That's what my Mom said her Grandfather did with the horse and cow manure.

We have used horse manure and sawdust from a local stable before.

Another question though. With ecoli (sp?), etc., how can you be sure you don't contaminate your vegetables? I have been hesitant to use it the past few years because of that. There have been a lot of people who got it that way and I am kind of worried. I have a son who is nearly four, and my elderly Grandmother lives with us also - they would both be easy targets.

Smiles,
Gabrielle

Rodale's book tells a lot about manures. Storage, how to use it, etc. It also gives a table of N-Ph-P with the different kinds of animal manures. There is no appreciable difference between horse and steer manure. Horse contains .2% more potash than steer, but the N-Ph ratings are the same. However, these values (especially the N) can drop rapidly if the manures are not used in the correct way. If you have a choice, use what has been most protected from the elements.

Here is a brief article to answer some questions:

Manure is it Safe for your Garden?
Van Bobbitt, Master Community Horticulture Coordinator & Dr. Val Hillers,
Food Specialist, Washington State University Cooperative Extension


Pathogens (microorganisms which cause disease) can be transferred from
animal manures to humans. The pathogens Salmonella, Listeria and E.coli ,
as well as parasites, such as roundworms and tapeworms, have been linked to
applications of manure to gardens.


Publicity about illnesses due to E.coli 0157:H7 has made people more aware
of the potential risk of foodborne illness from manure contamination. As a
result, many are now asking whether it is safe to use manure on their
gardens.


In August 1993, The Lancet Medical Journal reported on a small E.coli
0157:H7 outbreak that appeared to be the result of manure applications to a
garden. The gardener ate eggs and milk products, but no meat, and her diet
relied heavily on vegetables from her garden. She fertilized the garden all
summer with manure from her cow and calf. No E.coli 0157:H7 bacteria were
isolated from fecal samples taken from the cow and calf; however, the
animals did have antibody counts for the pathogen, suggesting they had been
previously infected. E.coli 0157:H7 was isolated from the manured garden
soil.


So, how risky is the use of manure in gardens and compost piles? If you use
fresh manure in the garden, there is a small risk that pathogens which
cause disease may contaminate garden vegetables. The risk is greatest for
root crops, like radishes and carrots, and leafy vegetables, such as
lettuce, where the edible part touches the soil. Careful washing and/or
peeling will remove most of the pathogens responsible for the disease.
Thorough cooking is even more effective.


To reduce the risk of disease, we suggest these precautions:


* Apply fresh manure at least 60 days before harvesting of any garden
vegetables which will be eaten without cooking. If you apply manure within
60 days of harvest, use only aged or composted manure.
* Never apply fresh manure after the garden is planted.
* Thoroughly wash raw vegetables before eating.
* Do not use cat, dog or pig manure in gardens or compost piles, because
some of the parasites which can be found in these manures may survive and
remain infectious for people.
* People who are especially susceptible to foodborne illnesses should avoid
eating uncooked vegetables from manured gardens. Those who face special
risks from foodborne illness include pregnant women, very young children,
and persons with chronic diseases, such as cancer, kidney failure, liver
disease, diabetes or AIDS.

If you put manure in a compost pile the heat will cook it pretty good and get rid of most nasties. Don't use any animal manure that eats meat (pigs, cats, dogs, etc.) Good manures to use are horse, llama, cow, and I think sheep and chicken. Some animals like cows are being fed meat in their food, which is what causes the problems in England. Bad sheep meat (filled with scrapies) is being fed to cows and the disease mutates into madcow. Kind of long winded, but if you know where it comes from and how the animals are raised, you should have a pretty good idea if it is safe. It's nice to know I learned something in my microbiology and botony classes. :)

Dave

Manure at lot depends on where you get it from


E-coli is primairliy from cows that are on a 100% grain diet. Those the get the normal grain/hay/pasture grazing have less than a 1% chance of having e-coli.

Mad cow disease is from feeding dead chickens to cows.
Not a normal diet.

Some folks say you can get worms from horse manure. This is true only if you eat fresh horsemanure. Suggestion don't eat horse sh-t


Cow and horse manure have been used to feed plants
for over 3,000 years.

The #1 key is to never add manure to a veggie garden after the seeds sprouts or transplants set out.

A system that has work for many 100's of years, Apply manure in the fall and lime in the spring.

As a rabbitry owner and garden lover, I have to put my vote in for rabbit manure as the best manure for gardening! It is a superior amendment, moreso than cow or horse. The problem is usually finding it in large quantities or finding it at all. It is a non-burn fertilizer but you'd still have to compost for use in a veggie garden. I also have worm beds under my rabbit hutches and they break the manure down into garden gold..he he!

I almost always have rabbits - I'm the one who gets them when other people realize how much work they really are. I have always used their manure. I have walk in cages kept on the ground, so it is very easy to scoop up their piles. Unfortunately, I am rabbit free right now. Waiting for someone to get tired of their beloved pet.

Smiles,
Gabrielle

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Anyone know anything about chicken manure? I have access to free chicken manure mixed with straw. Would I be at risk using it?

When I brought up the thing about madcow, it was just a side note about animals that are normally herbivors being fed meat. It is not anything that I am personally worried about, but most people don't know that and I was once told that you should not put manure of any animal that ate meat on a compost pile. That was all.
I agree with the person before gardendragon on all points.

By the way, do you have a name that we can call you? I don't want to call you no name.

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[ Removed per member request. - Admin]

You would be suprised at what is in animal feed.

Pig food contains traces of arsenic.

Most of the Mad cow stuff is from feeding animals wrong.

This bad science is being to catch up the the dummies.

Meat eaters, Yup don't use manure from them, There can be pathogens that can be passed thru the food chain and on to you.


Byron

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Chicken manure is very good (a little messy) and one of the highest in nitrogen which means never use fresh...always compost. But use as fresh as you can (or will) when you add it to the compost...really heats things up.

WOW! Lots of input on output, huh? This could be known as "The Great Poop Thread of 2001."
One of the risks of using manure of any animal that is on pasture is the kajillions of seeds. Some of them can be killed by composting, but you'll never get all of'em.

So Dicentra & Gabrielle, I can add rabbit doodie directly to the flower garden and it won't burn the plants? I can't believe I've been throwing this stuff away!

I plant lettuce in the garden for the wild rabbits. I give them lettuce, they give me poop. Also, you plant enough for them, feed them corn or whatever, and they don't do too much damage.

The best looking grass in the yard is in the large area where my rabbits ran. The only time there was ever any burn was where they urinated, and that was only if the on-the-ground cages where they were kept at night sat in the same place for too long.

I agree with Gabrielle. I use the manure straight from under the hutches. The only hesitation is when the manure is overly wet from urine, in that case I would put it in a pile or sunlight to dry out a bit. Using dry rabbit manure is much better than using urine soak stuff. I would just be careful in using fresh manure around tender seedlings, since it may be too overpowering. Otherwise, I put it fresh around everything else with no problem :)
Trish

One caveate on horse manure-weed seeds! Horses have a very ineffecient digestive tract and they do not digest seeds well at all. Always compost it in a hot compost pile and than let that sit for another 6 months as a cool pile.

I know the local homeimprovement stores carry cow manure in bags. Is that safe? The thought of round/Tape worms gets me a little dizzy!
Janice

I think that when you buy manure, it has been sterilized. May be wrong though. -- Gabrielle

When I was a kid , I dreaded watermelon planting time.
That meant cleaning out the chicken houses and hauling the manure to the field prior to planting melons. My dad planted a yellow meat, long green striped melon and I have never been able to grow one that tasted as good.
Bud

I wouldn't worry about getting worms from any manure. DSuch parasites are very host specific so a cattle tape worm will not survive in a human and certainly would not survive outside the host very long. True the proglottids can survive a while outside the host but composting and weathering would kill the vast majority.

I also wouldn't worry about contracting E-coli 157 etc unless you get all your manure from factory farms/feed lots and do not compost the manure. These pathogen problems were created by the feed animal confinement industry not the small family farms that raise animals much more humanely.
The trick to manure is to always compost it before use.

...and remember without e-coli in our guts we would all be dead in a few minutes

I am converting a large shady area of my lawn into a garden. To prepare the soil I have used Gypsum and a mix to break down the clay.

I would like to cover the area with manure and compose prior to starting my planting.

Could anyone tell me where I can get manure? I live in the SE part of Wisconsin and I do not know where I can buy it.

Any help would be appreciated.

jdier, if there are any horse stables, dairy farmers, rabbit or chicken farms near you they are usually only too happy to give you all you want. The catch is that you usually need to shovel it and haul it yourself. And of course it will probably be "fresh" so you may need to compost it once you have it home.

If your area has no farms to get a supply your only option may be to buy it by the bag. It can usually be found at any store that sells plants. But shop around because prices can vary a great deal!

one of my worst childhood memories is when my mam and dad took us on holiday to scotland. the holiday was great, but on the drive back home we stopped at some sheep fields. They then gave me and my sister plastic carrier bags to wear over our hands and made up pick up sheep 'pats'. The drier the better apparently, kinda like frisbies! Ugggggh. !!! My sister point blank refused and the car stunk on the way home! When we got back she put it in a rainwater barrel and fed her plants using the water, said it worked a treat for her gooseberry bushes!

lil

I just now read this thread, and I busted out laughing at the suggestion near the top. Too too funny!!!!!!

i see what you mean tiG, hehe, it would be a bit too warm, yeah...
rofl!

lil

jdier you say you're in SE WI? Have you ever (or anybody else that cares to comment) heard of Milorganite?

I haven't thought of this product in years! It's a byproduct of the sewerage treatment plant on Jones Island, Milwaukee. (Lovingly refered to as 'the poo-poo factory' ;) )

Find out everything you've always wanted to know about Milorganite and were afraid to ask at: www.milorganite.org

Can anybody think of any possible concerns with the use of this product?