Botanical names question - be honest...

Of course I don't just now remember where I saw it, but there's a handy little pocket-sized pronouncing dictionary of botanical names available for $3.95! I get a flyer every so often from the place that sells it. As soon as I get another one, I'll post it here. I haven't already bought one because the shipping and handling was more than the price of the book itself, but they were offering them EVEN CHEAPER in lots of ten.
I'm sure I mangle lots of Latin words, but that hasn't stopped me yet. I LOVE botanical names because when I and the person I'mm talking with use them, we're both sure we're talking about the same thing.
It will always be brug-MAN-see-ah to me!

When I first signed up here I had to look up every flower that someone was looking for. Sometimes it was something that I had in my yard but called it by its common name.I lke this idea.

Here is another cool tool......

http://ohld.ag.utk.edu/ohld110/annuals/commonnames.html

Brugie, This is a helpful tool. Thanks for sharing. I've put it into my favorites.

I am very happy to use latin names. if any of you ever reach this far and visit friends gardens you will hear them use latin names as if it is their 2nd language.

you do understand that latin names are universal world over? whether you say clem-atis or clem-a-tis everyone world over will know what you are saying.

every country must have pet names for common plants. does everyone around the world know that a
Bluebonnet is a Lupin?
or a "welcome home husband no matter how drunk you are" is a sempervivum?

I've said it before that all it takes is to learn one plant in your garden a day and soon you will know them all.

Mark

The pronunciation dictionary is a real good idea and I will help out however I can. It seems like all we need to do is have another entry into the plants database for pronunciation. Just keep in mind that you may say toh-may'-toh and I may say toh-mah'-toh (right Baa?), so deciding what is the proper latin name pronunciation may not be a simple task.

Also, a few caveats about using latin names for folks that want to take the plunge. The point about using latin names versus common names is well taken, particularly for folks with different languages, say folks from the Bronx and folks from Alabama, but using latin names does not guarantee that the person on the receiving end of the name will know what plant you are talking about.

Latin names for a great many plants are not set in stone. In actuality, these are names given to plants by a supposed "expert" in the field or a consensus of "experts" in the field, experts come and go, and their opinion as to what genus a plant belongs to often changes. It is surprising how dynamic plant nomenclature still is after hundreds of years. A lot of this is due to new techniques such as DNA comparison that can cause "taxonomists", which is what folks who classify plants/animals are called, to reevaluate how they have previously grouped or named a plant.

However, as a number of previous posts have pointed out, you have to be careful when throwing the latin names around in order not to be perceived as "you ain't downhome".

Aye, that it be, Copperbaron, Re: the Tomatoes that is. Not so sure about the potato pronounciation on that song though ;) We have the occasional discussion about nomneclature of genus and families too.

I agree with Mark, if we stop seeing botanical binomials as a foreign language, things get much easier.

Copperbaron, I think if we learn proper Latin, the long "a" and the short "a" are clearer. But none of that mattered after I went to your page and looked at your property. I lived in the lush Mississippi Delta as a young child, and have always turned to mush when I returned. We were in Vicksburg, Waltersville, Jonestown and on King's Point Island, and I thought the whole world was like those places. Gardens just grew, there was no fight with Nature in my mind, and tomatoes in any language were a delicious snack plucked straight from the plant, often crammed between two sides of a leftover biscuit. Hills were scary and thrilling, especially on a pair of roller skates, and a child could go up to any door and ask for a drink of water and be warmly received. Forgive my very green eyes when I view your Paradise. Congratulations on your wisdom for building it.

Aimee (did you take your name from the Pure Prairie League song?), thanks for the kind words and I'm glad I could stir your childhood memories - they're always the best, aren't they? And the music that came from the delta - it has influenced everything we listen to today.

Baa, I agree with Mark too - my scientific training after all, but I always like to point out that the binomial nomenclature does not always make for unambigous communication as a lot of scientific folks like to claim. Those deciding to jump into it should be aware......

Aimee, you should know that as you are a transplanted Mississippian, I am a transplanted Texan. I spent my first 7 years in Dallas, detoured to Jackson, MS for 4 years (where I got my love of nature and established the Mississippi influence in my soul and my guitar playing), then 8 years in Houston, 9 years in San Marcos (is this not the greatest small city in the US - Aquarena springs and innertubing with an ice chest of beer in water that is 70 degrees year round and the most beautiful women in the US - can life get any better?), 5 years in Lubbock, and, finally, the last 14 years in Vicksburg.

This doesn't add up as I spent a few years in San Diego and Vietnam, but, all in all, I'd still rather be in Texas. I envy YOU - the grass is always greener........

Oh, this is really funny! I am actually a Louisiana woman, born in West Monroe, and always wanted to live in Texas. When my little sister was born, it is said that I entertained her by standing beside her crib, clapping my hands at the appropriate times and singing "Deep In the Heart of Texas". My aunt asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up, and at the tender age of four, I told her "go to Texas!" My route included the Vicksburg area, Memphis, Arkansas, all but south Louisiana and finally east and central Texas. I went to school for a short time in San Marcos, as an adult. The hills on campus can mimic Vicksburg pretty accurately. On my first day to register, I wore some really spikey pumps, with just the frailest straps, and by noon, I was downtown buying a pair of sneakers to wear with my suit. Those heels were worn to ribbons from the walking, but I wore sensible shoes to class from then on. And I would never give up Texas, but the Delta forever beckons. Yes, the music! Is there any place else in the world where honky tonk guitars and pianos sound quite the same? Can a gospel choir ever be the same if it doesn't spend time in the Delta air? Oh, could we ever forget those honeysuckle and magnolia scented summer nights? I hope to get back to see King's Point, which Mama says is a private hunting club now, before I am too old to travel. BTW, I encountered a delightful gardener from Vicksburg a few years ago, named Jon Pennybacker. Hope I spelled it correctly, didn't check old cards. And I mourned Miss Welty when I read of her passing. Always wanted to meet her.

All I can say is, you really knew what life was all about at a very early age if you sang "Deep in the Heart of Texas" at the age of four. Have not heard of Jon, but my wife has - she is the native Vicksburgian, but I tend to keep to myself when it comes to gardening. As you are probably aware, the "gardeners" in this area tend to belong to "garden clubs" of which I don't have the hankering to join. You are always welcome here in Vicksburg.

I am not of the club persuasion, either. If Jon is, he certainly doesn't seem as aloof as members of clubs around here usually are. I can't blend with that crowd, as I forget to be snooty and proper once I start in a garden mode of thought. Poor as we were, one of my aunts did aspire to the society life, and was so phony, I never could believe it was her when I read of their activities in the paper. I am probably older than your wife, born in 1939, and there is little chance I would have known her as we were pretty much confined to our neighborhood during those years, but am curious to know if she is also a gardener. The friends I remember made some really prize winning mudpies.

Aimee, my wife is not a gardener and, unfortunately, never will be. Her family has owned and operated the newspaper here since about 1880. She was a member of the garden club, but quite a long time ago. You can figure out the reasons why she left.

Copperbaron, it could be just as well that you are the gardener. Keeps you younger, and you men do have a nasty habit of dying younger than women. Plus, she will be more likely to appreciate your efforts when they aren't in conflict with hers. Besides, the flowers you bring to her are a true gift, not from her own labor.

Another 2 cents worth re botanical names not being complete definitive: yes, changes are made all the time, and can become quite confusing. BUT they're still a lot better than 'buttercup' or 'bluebell', both of which is applied to many different plants. And with a bonatical name, no matter how out of date it may be, you have a starting point for research---it's amazing what Google can find for you.

Pronounce Botanical Names?? I don't even know the botanical names for most of my babies. They have been given to me or sold to me here in small town USA, where a buttercup is a buttercup and would be just as pretty by any other name. I usually have good luck doing research by using the common name as a starting search. I tried to give one of my neighbor's snooty friends a Toad Lily last summer, and he couldn't take it because I didn't know what the "Cultivar" was. Oh, well. My kids had nick names, and I loved them just like my plant babies. I wish you well with the project, and envy you all your knowledge of plants. I will learn alot here at Dave's Garden.Lou

One should never be looked down upon because they don't know something - neither should they be looked down upon because they do.

Oh, thank you Copperbaron - I really do feel ignorant, because I am ignorant of most botanical names. Nevermind pronouncing them, I have no idea what most of them mean. I know that they are supposed to be descriptive, but how do I begin to learn a new language at my age??? When I see long lists of plants, I just see a very few or parts of a name that I might recognize. I see long trade lists offered to me but it is so time consuming to look them up that I just have to pass them by. I know that I am missing out on lots of neat things and would like to understand but I really don't have a clue how to go about it. I think this thread is mostly about the pronunciation, which is importantb-but how can you teach the meaning?

Azalea, that's what I really like about what I'm proposing to Dave. Not only would this have a pronunciation guide for terms, but also a brief defintion.

Working on this project has really helped me realize that many plants have very logical, descriptive names - which helps you remember them. And once you learn what a few root words and prefixes mean, you can start making logical guesses at new names you come across.

Azalea, the way I have learned them is through books and catalogs. I read these often, and, after enough time, I have become familiar with the latin names. Old dogs can learn new tricks. After a time, you also start to realize what some of them mean, such as rubra refers to red, purpurea refers to purple, alba refers to white. Many of the others refer to where the plant was originally found, such as virginiana, alabamensis, canadensis, japonica, etc. There is also some place on the web that I have seen that lists what the more common descriptive latin terms mean. I will try and find it again and post it here.

Azalea :)

I'm sure you would be surprised at the amount of words you will already be familiar with once you see the meanings. Most European languages stem from a Latin base and script, we use many parts of ancient Greek words too. I promise you it's not so hard as it looks at first which is why I agree with Vols that the definition is so important for people to see.

It's not so much a new language as a rediscovery of the basis of our own.

Copperbaron...is this the site you mentioned above?http://www.prairienet.org/garden-gate/botrts.htm

This path might seem quite daunting to many but I can only support the majority here. It's really not as difficult as it seems. Taken one step at a time, it soon becomes the norm and the most practical and ensures that you really do get the plant you have your heart set on!!

Thanks Shoe,great site' Now, with this internet, none of us can make excuses for not learning. We don't have to leave the comfort of our homes,it's right here at our fingertips' I'm willing to learn and in time feel confident in conversations to express my botanical expertise' Use it or lose it and there's no excuse for not learning,IMHO' Sis'

By golly Shoe - I think you hit the nail on the head - if you can learn from this I can too. I thank you for that link! This seems to be a great learning tool.

Horseshoe, that was it - thanks.

That is a good link, 'shoe. I've combined most of that information with pronunciation guides I have found in a variety of places. Plus a bunch of other terms I've found along the way; it seems many sites have a "bit of this and a little of that". So I'm going along and trying to combine and compile it into one big document, much like the work I did on the Garden Watchdog.

Thankfully, Baa is helping me edit (because SHE took Latin and I didn't, not to mention she has a ton of gardening experience!) If there's anyone else interested in getting a sneak peek and helping edit, raise your hand. Raise it REALLLLY high so I'll be sure to see it :)

What I think we'll end up with is a tool that will let you look up and see how to pronounce every botanical term (all family, genus and species names) in our plants database. And....maybe even hear them if we have anyone who would like to volunteer to record them???? :)

And finally, be able to read a very short definition of the terms - in my opinion, it's the defintion that really helps you remember it afterwards.

It seems I have this hand, and if I look up, I see it waaaay above my head.

Oh, lookee there. The $50,000 chandelier is SOLD to the gentleman in the back with his hand up! Yes, you sir. Uh huh - you, the guy with his hand up above his head. Oh, you didn't know it was up there? Well, I'm sure that chandelier will look just splendid in your home - please settle up with the cashier on your way out :)

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. That's always been a fear of mine at auctions. (How DID my hand get up there? And I just bid on WHAT???? For HOW MUCH????)

Copperbaron, I'll email you some info. Anybody else care to raise their hand??? (Hopefully I haven't scared anybody away with this strange sense of humor I have.)

oohhh I blush, so many compliments this week :)

Our intrepid Vols has taken on an enormous task yet again and puts sooo much hard work into these things with a passion to be envied.

My home work is due in tomorrow so I'd better get a move on and stop yarning ;)

I volunteer Baa for the voice. What a treat to hear it all in a snooty British brogue. And I think Louisa could probably spell her if she gets tired vocal chords. There, I took care of my duties. Army basic style?

now say whut? You'ns mean ya'll don' wanna have a nice sweet garbled Suthin' akscent like mine! Well tie my shoestrings and holler "GO"!

Count me in, Vols. I'm going to be out of town for a few dyas, but e-me with details fo what I have to do, and detailed instructions on HOW to do it! I know waaay more botanical Latin than I do Computerese!

AHHHHHHHH
I wanted to hear Shoe do it in his southern drawllllll.

Paul

This message was edited Friday, Apr 5th 11:27 PM

Oh ar bostin ay-yt. We gerin ere fer a blether un ar find mesel cawd snooty! Arm guna gavver me trackments n gera move on owt sharpish iv arve gorra yammer snooty like. Naylee gobbed me fittles wen ar reddit. (chunter, chunter, chunter):)

Lucky are doe spaike loike tha anymoore.

Too much baaa, LOL Now how am I going to know which accent to use????

I'm beginning to think audio files could be very VERY interesting :)

Ha! z:-D

Uh-oh, maybe I spoke too hastily! Is there a speech therapist in the house? No offense meant, Shoe, I just thought you would be so busy with your court duties in Goldsville, and we don't want to impose too much on a Southern Gentleman like yourself. But since you didn't treat me to a call, ahem, and I have no idea how pleasing that drawl is, I will rely upon Gardenwife to evaluate.