Botanical names question - be honest...

How many of you are comfortable using botanical names on a regular basis? I for one, am definitely NOT comfortable using most of them in casual conversation.

Because it is the universal language of gardeners, I have learned to recognize a lot of Latin (botanical) names when I see them printed, and use them in written correspondence, but I stutter and stumble over many of them when I have to say them aloud. ("Dianthus" I can handle; but
"gratianapolitanus"? You gotta be kidding!)

Since I felt so uncomfortable pronouncing these names, I've started putting together a little tool for myself that has botanical names (or root word), a very brief definition (one word, preferably!); and a guide to pronunciation.

This project is currently in a spreadsheet, and far from finished. But when it is finished (or at least closer to being finished), I wonder if it might be helpful to others? If so I can see if Dave could find a home for it here. It'd be even better if others could contribute to it when they choose, kind of like the plants database...)

What do ya'll think? (Please don't tell me I'm the ONLY one who gets tongue-tied when it comes to botanical names, LOL.) I figured I'd post this and see if there's interest in it, with the hope it'll spur me on to getting this wrapped up and off my never-ending list of things to complete ;0)

I think it would be wonderful. You should have heard me talking to Cala, she corrected me each time, and no telling how many times she let slide!! It's hard for a redneck GA girl!

Vols

You aren't the only one to get tongue tied (and I did Latin for 4 years LOL), I tend to break the word up into syllables but thats just my way. Linneus isn't around to correct us so sometimes you find groups of people who disagree with the pronounciation of various names. I think it would be useful for many here who want to converse in botanica but don't feel comfortable, hopefully it will give people more confidence in using it more often.

May I also suggest (and I'm perfectly willing to help out here) that the species names have a translation of what it means, so it gives people something to relate to.

Vols, Oh, excuse me? Are you trying to tell me that you can't spell or say those botanical names? **giggle** I have news for you....When I go to a garden center, I wander around aimlessly looking for the best looking plant. Then and only then do I look at the name. And 9 times out of 10 they have the common name on the plant with the "fancy" name in very small print somewhere on the tag. And 9 times out of 10 I can't see it anyway. LOL

Your ideas are great.... Thank you bunches... "T" :)

Vols!!! If you can put something together like that, and if even a country bumpkin like me can learn from it, I just may have some credibility when I talk to others around here! I'd like to see you go with it! 'Smatter of fact, I'd just about "pay-for-view" it!
If you have a bit of it done care to offer a sample?
I say (again) go for it! By the way, are your sides hurting? (Must be cuz I'm "spurring" you on!)

Yep, Terry........I get ya drift!!

"eyes"

i use botanical names, and it's about half the time because I either remember the botanical or the common, but almost never both. Last summer I was at a garden center, asked the manager if they had something that came out botanical, he through his hands in the air and asked me where i was from and who I thought i was - I won't go back to that place. YES, I THINK THIS IS A WONDERFUL IDEA - I MAY JUST SEND HIM AND ANONYMOUS URL!!! Heheheheheheh......

I think it's a great idea!! I'd be willing to contribute what I can. I've been mispronouncing botanical names for many years but ya have to use 'em to be specific. Are you brave enough to post a sample for usn's to look at? I think Baa's suggestion has a lot of merit as well.

Patrick

Whew! I'm soo glad I'm not the only one who suffers from this affliction. (I DID wonder when I posted this!)

Just for 'shoe, here's an ABC "sampler" of some of the terms I've got. (Please forgive the format, I'm not HTML literate either, so no pretty spacing or gussying up here.)

Acanthus...spine; spike...a-KANTH-us
bella...pretty...BEL-luh
chinensis...of or from China...chi-NEN-sis

Anyway, if Dave's willing, it would be neat if this could be in a database where you could type in the Latin word (or browse alphabetically), then read the definition and pronunciation. Or search by a key word that describes what you *think* the Latin name means, and it'd bring up the words that have similar definitions.

And, (I'm on a roll here), if everyone could add their own definition and/or preferred pronunciation to the existing entries (as well as add new ones) I think we could wind up with a very impressive tool to use.

I try to use them more and more but never try to say them only write them down.

I have to look up a lot of stuff too, as I don't know everything by their latin names.

I think it would be a good to have a source to cross reference things. I have a ton of books but i may have to look in two or three to find just one thing now and then.

Mike

I also think this is a wonderful idea!! You don't know how many times I hear Cala say a botanical name and I think "that sounds familiar"....and we won't even talk about how many times she corrects me!!

I'm not sure about "preferred" pronunciations...For example- I say abutilon incorrectly, but you'll never hear me say it any other way. If I put my version up there, others may see it and be pronunciating it wrong too.

However, there are some names that even the "experts" disagree on- and those all of those should probably be listed. Just my thoughts :)

Trish

Yep, I'm willing!

Actually, vols, there's plans for quite a bit of extending of the Plants Database, and I think this is another great addition to it. You'll hear from me in E-mail more about all of this.

Dave

What a nice thing to do!
Being "Latin illiterate"
(despite 2 yrs. of Latin MANY years ago)
this will be a wonderful tool.
Thank you Go_Vols & Dave! :-)

Way back in the 50s, I worked in the campus greenhouse at La.Tech, and I became more comfortable with latin names. One botany professor in particular would go to great lengths to say the name properly, then add a common name, all in a very natural way so I felt comfortable when I pronounced things that seemed to have nineteen vowels in a row, all of them pronounced. Later, I ran into people who looked at me funny when I said kalanchoe or burfordii as I had been taught, and more complicated ones would get the annoyed reaction of one who shuns knowledge. I don't remember many of them, but would love to re-learn them and use them. I have many gardening books, so they aren't too difficult to find, I just don't always feel like others want me to use them. It would be nice to be among people who aren't alienated by the sound of a latin name. And maybe, just maybe, I can still learn them if I begin to use them. This is a very good thing!

Yep, it's a good thing.

It seems I have a midlife brain block when it comes to Latin names so any help would be appreciated. :)

This would be so helpful for those of us that are just learning. It would also be very helpful if it could have sound where it was pronounced for us? That might not work, but I always find that if I hear it pronounced once, I remember it better.

Hmmm...good point JoanJ. sound?
By the way Aimee...spill it! Kalanchoe! Did your professor pronounce it "Kal-an-cho"...or "Kal-an-KO-ee", or "Ka-lan-Cho"? (last one with emphasis on the "Lan") (We have a discussion about this word entirely too often! Wonder how many other words fall in this category).

go_vols....what a brilliant idea. Goforit...hehe.
Kelly

Shoe, I'm not sure if I can get it right phonetically, but here goes: kuh-LON-ko-ee. The only one that really bothers me to hear is something like kolanchee. It sounds sort of like kolache, the pastry the local Czech women make. And I have been "corrected" by people who believe that is correct.
It makes me want to apologize to Dr. Moore, who must be spinning in his grave.

Aimee, I was starting to get a hankering for kolaches before I even got to that part of your thread....hehehehe (I grew up in an area where they were common, but my own family doesn't appreciate them, so they make rare appearances around here.)

Now here's one that I recently learned I was mangling very badly: Fuchsia - for years, I thought it was FYOO-shuh. Lo and behold, working on the Plants Database taught me otherwise: FEWKS-ya (or something akin to that) is the correct pronunciation. I guess it's the Latinized form of somebody's name (somebody named Fuchs, perhaps?)

Vols, this would be a fun and useful way to check and see how things are pronounced (even tho I am stuck on Clematis with a long A). After a gardener starts to branch out and search for specific varieties the latin names really start to matter.

I have a great time at the garden center saying "Well, I have the bluish tinted Sea Holly, but now I would like the purplish tinted Sea Holly..." - I would really rather know how to at least attempt to say it instead of handing them a piece of paper as asking them to - "Get me one of those please." And just think how much cooler our garden dialogue would eventually sound :)

Terry, I just notice in the latest issue of Horticulture (which is my last issue) that they have a page in the back now with a Latin pronunciation guide for all of the plants mentioned in the magazine. (Leave it to me to cancel my subscription just as they started getting it together!) This might be something to look into.

Kathleen, I dropped that magazine several years ago, because they wouldn't deal with the real south and southwest US gardens. But never fear, I bet we end up with a better guide here. If everyone starts using the botanical name, I will be more likely to look it up in my books, and then I might submit it for the record. But I don't want to stick out like a sore thumb and be the only one doing it. And when I goof, you must all promise not to guffaw. Giggle, okay, but try to keep it down.

SOme time back I had a dictionary on CD that pronounced words for you. That was much more informative than seeing the strange characters. I wonder if such a thing exists somewhere on the web?

gratti what???????
Glad to know dianthus is Latin. As Alan Jackson might say,I thought it was sothern redneck WHERE I COME FROM.

Vols

It was Leonhard Fuchs a botanist in the 1500's, but it most certainly wasn't pronounced fewks ;) The change in pronunciation was to prevent offence to delicate ears. Few sha is how it is pronounced here.

So I can go back to saying it the way I always have? Whew! I can't replicate the search I did when I was looking for it the first time around, but what I'm seeing seems to put Baa's pronunciation in the majority - at least for now :)

The last time I searched for it, every place seemed to have the "FOOKS-ya pronunciation listed. And...since we know a family whose last name is Fuchs - pronounced "Fox" or "Fooks" depending on who was saying it - I bought into the other pronunciation "hook line and sinker" as they say. (And yes, their name got twisted into something a little off-color sounding from time to time, too :)

Well, I'm glad to be back to FEW-shuh - much easier to remember :)

Hey Aimee, I have a niece that gradurated from La. Tech. Later worked as a landscape planner for New Orleans. Not sure where she is now.

I am trying to use them more and more. For example here at DG when have people from around the world. A Strawflower here in the US might be called something entirely different by DINU in India or Laura in Austraila. If we use the Botanicial nmaes we're all on the same page.

I have several books that has the pronounciations in them.
I'll keep practing

Paul

You guys would get a laugh outa how some of us say Brugmansia.We had a big posting about it.How do YOU say it.bRUG - mas-ia or brew g man sia?

I say brug-man-sia

Paul

yes paul, that's gotta be it :)

A couple people have asked about being able to hear each word pronounced. I agree it would be nice, but you don't want me pronouncing them with this southern drawl I've got mixed together with a midwest twang....ugh!

I CAN tell I am aware of two sources that had fairly good repositories of terms that could be played to hear them spoken: one was an encyclopedia in the hg women's forum (which I think got bought out by iVillage and was never seen nor heard from again); the other was Sierra.com's encylcopedia, which has also gone by the wayside.

I would hazard a guess these projects were dismantled in part because of the cost to operate them. But I could be wrong, so I'll defer the issue to Dave to address the technical issues.

In the meantime, I'm still plugging away at my little cross-reference list :) I'm definitely feeling spurred on!!!

I like makin up my own names! LOL

i heard martha's friend say clem-a-tis
i say clemat-is!

Oh boy, this is such a cool idea!!!!!!!!!! The only time I use botanical names is with my DH.... Haven't got a clue as to what I'm saying but he thinks I'm really SMART..LOL Thats cause he isnt a gardner and has less of a clue than I do! This would be wonderful.
Meems

Jim, I had dreams of pursuing exactly that career many years ago. What year did she graduate? We lived on campus in student housing, converted barracks buildings, just a stone's throw from what was known as the little greenhouse, as opposed to the big one at "the farm", a remote campus. So I was a natural for tending things, at 50 cents an hour. My husband was a veteran attending on the GI bill, and Tech really catered to the vets. As a wife, I was allowed to audit classes not normally open to audit, work in jobs specially created for vets, and in general have a free ride.It was a great opportunity for this little hick to develop an appreciation of an exotic world. Although I didn't earn a degree from Tech, as I had always wanted to, I gained so much just by exposure. I will always have a soft spot for that school, which now doesn't even resemble the campus of 1956.

Well, if you have the means to record your own voice into an mp3 or wav file, I could easily make it so that you could add that to the site, just like you add an image now.

So, the answer is, (basically), audio would be easy for me to setup, but YOU would have to know how to create those audio files (just as it's also your responsibility to create the jpg's before you upload them).

Dave

Oooh! This sounds like a great thing! I don't know how to use it, but what an incentive to learn.

Terry thought you might like to see this. The site has sound to help with the pronunciation!!

http://delilah.nslsilus.org/cgi-bin/IllinoisBest/plantindex.pl