Saving an overwatered dracaena

I have a plant, purchased a few weeks ago. I'm a complete beginner and have already screwed up pretty badly.

I'm fairly certain that the plant is a Dracaena Marginata (the big box store only labeled it as "tropical foliage". It has no color on any leaves.

edit: I believe I misidentified the plant. A Dracaena Marginata seemed like a close (but not perfect) match but the leaves seemed slightly different (and always remained just green). I think this may be a Dracaena Anita. Hard to find much info on the Anita but it seems like a closer match and it is grown by a vendor that supplies the big box store.

I have it planted in a clay pot (glazed on outside, unglazed on inside). I don't recall the exact size but the container it was purchased in fit snugly inside of it and the roots were not bound in the original container. It gets filtered sunlight from a south facing window several feet away (lack of light could be an issue but it seems appropriate for the care of this plant from my research).

The tips of the leaves were turning brown and over the last few days the issue is growing worse. I believe it can take a few weeks to for this plant to show signs/symptoms of poor conditions. I'm quite sure I've overwatered this plant. There are rock pebbles at the top (for stability, decor and to keep the soil in place during watering). I have no problem removing them. I began watering without a meter and the pebbles made it hard to determine how moist the soil was. I am now using a water meter. It is generally reading between a 7.4 and a 8.5 (water meter is on a scale from 0 to 10) in most areas, which I believe is too much moisture for this plant. The pot has a drainage hole in the bottom center but it seems to retain a lot of moisture still. I have no been fertilizing (yet) as this was planted within the last few weeks using MiracleGro potting mix (the mix, not the soil, which I believe is mostly peat moss and some perlite).

The potting mix is still very wet (the 7-8 readings are very recent and I have not watered it recently, so it was likely even worse several days ago). My question is, how bad do you think this plant is and what is the best course of action?

I'm concerned about shock if I repot but I'm more concerned the plant will die before the potting mix dries. Should I repot it now or wait this out? If I repot, I would like to add a much greater mix of perlite or switch potting mixtures as I'm disappointed with the drainage from this mix in this pot. The leaves have gone from brown tips to browning on the majority of some leaves and it seems to be worsening by the day. Is there much risk to unpotting it to try and determine the health of the roots?

Any advice on saving this plant would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

edit: When I water (which I've done twice and now realize that was too frequent) I used rain water once and tap water once. The tap water was filtered through a Brita water filter and sat for 24-48 hours before used for the plant. I'm not sure if the Brita filter removes (enough) fluoride from the tap water but I think this is a symptom from overwatering and not just fluoride in the water.

This message was edited Jul 8, 2016 2:28 PM

This message was edited Aug 1, 2016 2:42 PM

Hi x50-
It does have the look of an overwatered plant to me too. I would do as you suggest- repot in a better draining potting mix. I have heard other people here complain that the newer MiracleGro mix is too soggy, but have not used it myself. When you pull it out, look at the roots, if lots are rotted you will need to trim them back so it does not spread.
I wouldn't think this is from fluoride- I have watered plenty of Dracaena with fluoridated water without problems, this happened fast so something else is happening. People talk about fluoride building up over time affecting some plants.
For a "complete beginner" I'd say you are doing great, learning fast. All the things you are saying are very reasonable!
I found the same problem with rock mulch in pots-makes it too hard to check soil moisture, I don't put rocks on anymore. I have not had too much luck with the soil meters myself, I just feel the soil, often pick up the pot to see if it is heavy or light, over time you get to know what is the weight of a dry thirsty plant.
Welcome to DG!

Pistil - Thank you very much for the reply. I really appreciate it. I'm a complete beginner (really only tried keeping 3 plants before but neglected them severely). I'm all in for trying again and I'm trying to research and learn as I go this time :-).

I agree - it isn't likely the fluoride. I was just trying to cover all basis. I did go ahead and repot since it doesn't sound like the stress would kill the plant. I'm really not impressed with the MiracleGro potting mix. It was recommended to me as a "high quality" potting mix but I'm really disappointed with the drainage and am thinking it may not be the best match for dracaenas. I'm also thinking now that the rocks on top may have trapped some moisture though that may have otherwise evaporated more quickly.

I'm glad I did the repot and I think the plant will survive. It was a wet soggy mess and was extremely compacted at the bottom of the pot. I had to literally dig it out, it was very solid. I repotted with a mix of peat and composted potting mix and mixed in a much greater ratio of perlite and vermiculite. The roots seemed strong and were bright orange so I think the plant will recover. The potting mix was really in the roots as well - I doubt this plant could breathe before the repotting. I wasn't sure if I should water yet again after repotting but I ended up doing it and the drainage is significantly better. Now I'm a little worried, it drains a bit more like a succulent/cacti mix but hopefully it'll hold a better amount of a moisture (and I haven't gone to the other extreme).

Thank you for the tip on picking up the pots. I've been testing this over the last few days and think that will help me significantly with water management in the long term. Great advice! I'll post a final update in a few weeks on how the plant is doing.

Yay!
Please remember to give us an update in a few weeks.
One book I like for learning about houseplants is an old one- The House Plant Expert by Dr. D.G. Hessayon.
It's an old paperback British book sold worldwide, includes little tips about many houseplants. You can usually find it used at Half Price Books.

Pistil - Thank you again for the advice and the book recommendation. The community here is really great and helpful!

As for the dracaena, things took a quick turn for the worst. Over the weekend, two
stalks/stems broke off and possibly rotted (?). I'm not entirely sure what went wrong here on the second try (something clearly did). The leaves are yellow/brown and falling off in masses. Few are remaining. Two stalks broke off at the top.But the stems were turning dark, dried and very weak. Two were trimmed back after losing all leaves. Maybe I went too far in the opposite direction and did not provide enough water?

The potting mix was slightly moist but I haven't really watered since immediately following the re-potting and it was just slightly.

I'm debating whether this is still salvageable but I don't think its going to make it much longer.


This message was edited Jul 21, 2016 11:54 PM

Ugh it does look sick. Well, time will tell...

Shortly after my last post, the rest of the plant went. The stems (is there a more proper term for the active growth shoots?) seemed to be drying out and it got a very white/yellowish color where the leaves attached. The leaf groupings eventually began bending and snapped them off. They were all on the table near the plant.

I also think that this plant may be a Dracaena Anita rather than Dracaena Marginata. It drives me crazy that a garden center doesn't label anything other than calling it "Tropical Foliage" :-) Anita seems to match the leaves and bright orange roots better (in my very amateur opinion).

I ended up cutting the stems back to a few inches above the trunk. Waiting to see if I'll get any new growth but I suspect this thing may be dead. I've never seen a Dracaena go downhill so quickly. I can't say I plan to purchase this plant again. Maybe it was bad luck or my brown thumb too heavily directed towards a single plant.

Well darn.
Some gardeners say they learn more from their failures than their successes. I think it might be true for me.
I never had much success with Dracaena, they did not seem to react well to my occasional neglect... My houseplants all seem to have one thing in common, they don't die if occasionally they get too dry.

Hi x50 and Pistil. It may not be too late to save your plant. First x50 I would recommend you read this thread. It has a lot of useful information about soils and their retentions. I think you will benefit greatly.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1073399/

Thanks again for the replies.

Pistil - That certainly makes sense and is true for most new endeavors for me in life :-). You learn the most from mistakes and failures. Unfortunately, I'm still not quite sure what went wrong here but I suspect it is the combination that killed all but one of my plants during my first attempt at keeping some (jumping between extremes, too much water, not enough water, too much water, repeat cycle).. haha.

Funny though, I have extremely limited experience but so far mine has been the opposite. Dracaenas have been my "most successful" attempt at house plants. I have one "Corn Plant" that about 4 years old now. It had been living a pretty lonely life, even for a plant, being the sole survivor of my previous half-hearted attempt. All others died within a year. I'm much more invested this time around.. mostly in learning and attempting to do it correctly. Funny that I love nature and have always loved the tropical/subtropical plants (actually, pretty much anything not native to Ohio, I love the plants to the south and southwest of the country) but never really made the connection that I could bring more of this environment and nature to me.

Vance - Thank you very much for that link. I've learned a lot about potting mixes and wish I had read more before I started planting this spring/summer. That post is awesome and I'll definitely be giving that a try next year (maybe this year for a few plants). I live in a townhouse (more like an apartment than a condo, really) so creating that mix is likely going to be a challenge. Most stores here with Garden Centers are getting pretty sparse on supplies and I don't have anywhere to store bulk supplies. I'm going to try and move some smaller plants over to a similar mix this year and then take this approach for everything next year.

From what I read in that post, I think using a mix as Al outlined will be the single greatest factor in being more successful... especially with my tendency to jump between over watering and then underwatering (usually as a reaction to realizing I've overwatered).

Attached a recent picture of the plant. It seems to be rotting from the top down (the best I can tell). Probably doesn't help that I let it outside and it rained but I have little faith it can be salvaged at this point. The browning (rotting? maybe just dying?) is continuing to spread downward. I've already cut the tallest stem back below the browning. I'm probably going to chop off the top, below the shoots, to leave just the "trunk" or main stem and see if it continues. I thought root rot always went from the bottom (soil) upwards, not the other way around but I have another more mature Dracaena doing basically the same thing after it was trimmed back. There's also no odor, which I read was common for rot in these plants.

Well these plants I think will sprout from below the point where they are beheaded, so if the whole thing does not die it may eventually sprout up again! Just know that while they have no leaves at all, they need very little water, but usually do not want to be bone dry.

Good to know, thanks. I figured with no leaves the need for water would be reduced. It probably should not be outside either, I'm sure that may cause some shock but I'm a bit paranoid something else is wrong with it and have limited room inside for a plant that doesn't want to live :). I'm trying to give it another shot at life though.

Dracaenas (all that I know of) will put out new growth below the cut. Or... they typically will. I don't think they will when the stalks are browning and shrinking, which is why I'm planning to cut it back down below the 4 stems. At least, that is the theory. My success rate is currently 0%. Whenever I cut it (this plant and a 3 year old "corn plant", the stems seem to shrivel and turn brown from the top down (where the cut is). I've tried wax, I'm sterilizing the pruning sheers with 90% rubbing alcohol. Oddly, both top cuttings from the corn plant have rooted and seem very healthy, putting out new growth that is back to the famous corn plant variegation (yellow strip in the middle, the parent plant's leaves had become all green). Not sure why all the stalks are dying.

I keep thinking its root rot working in reverse of everything I've read but that doesn't seem right. The Anita or Marginata this post is about has nothing but bright orange roots left.

Here's the corn plant putting out new shoots after pruning. The other stalk died in a similar fashion to this plant... except the stem didn't shrivel like this one, instead it just turned brown and kind of hollow.

I wanted to add one other note... something I've learned from my issues. I thought I did my research and everyone recommended "high quality potting mix" for containers. Plenty of my reading suggested MiracleGro fit the bill.

I've had several issues with plants (only posted about this one, the others were largely easier to determine the problem and remedy the issue). Essentially, almost all of my issues are related to using MiracleGro's potting mix, which is mostly peat. I don't want to make it sound like MiracleGro is awful but it certainly was not a good fit for my usage, as most of my plants want to dry out more than the mix apparently allows.

Thanks to Vance's post, I plan to try both the 5-1-1 and gritty mixes described in that post and I suspect I'll have much better luck, next year, when I do.

Before I read about these other mixes and the science behind it, I had tried another potting mix. I'm sure there are some issues with this as well (particle size, being one) but I am having much better luck with the plants that I moved over to this mix. Has anyone used this before? Any feedback/comments if it is decent for a pre-mixed single bag solution?

The product is EcoScraps Moisture Retaining Organic Potting Mix. It seems to dry out better than peat mixtures and has more bark and perlite in it (I still mix in more perlite). The company's mission seems pretty cool as well but I'm looking for a potting mix, not the company I'd prefer to give my money to. I'm curious what others think, if they have tried it. I hope to make my own mixtures in the future but so far, this is the best pre-bagged solution I've found that is available at big box stores. I'm hoping to repot some plants this weekend with this mix instead as so far its looking less likely to rot and kill my plants than MiracleGro for plants that are more sensitive to constant moisture.

I've settled into only using Miracle-Gro potting mix many years ago instead of mixing my own which is a real PITA when a bag should have everything you want in it or most everything. Overall it is pretty good and does a good job of my hundreds of plants. It's a shame you jumped through so many hoops but that is how you learn too. If the stems are still solid then it may sprout. You could've rooted the tops too provided they were not rotted. I'm just wondering if maybe the plant was already in trouble when you bought it - it happens sometimes.

Anyway when you find something that works for you stick with it and hope they stay in business (one reason I switched to Miracle-Gro is the other company I was using just wasn't around locally anymore for a couple of years). Whatever you do, do not continue watering a plant that is already watered thoroughly - let it dry out some before watering again. Do not worry about tap water either unless you are in Flint, MI. Any water beats NO water.

Move it outdoors to get lots of light, warmth, and some wind to toughen it up for winter.

Most of these plants are in Miracle-Gro and most are doing pretty good except the crowding.

I also had some problems with the current Miracle-Gro potting mix. I switched to Pro-Mix HP (HP stands for high porosity, so it drains well. This comes in huge compressed bales, and is marketed for use by nurseries. I got a few bales 2-3 years ago. I finally found it at an "Indoor Gardening and Hydroponics" store which I think was a euphemism for illegal marijuana cultivation! Anyway I ducked in and paid cash, but I am probably now on some watch list somewhere. I see it can now be bought at Lowe's. The company has multiple different mixes, but I liked the HP idea, and it works great. One bale is a LOT of potting soil, if you live in an apartment it would not be useful. Also it is seriously heavy.
http://www.lowes.com/pd/PRO-MIX-Pro-Mix-2-2-cu-ft-Potting-Soil/3745337

hcmcdole - glad to hear MiracleGro is working well for you. I have a few plants thriving in it as well. I think it's part me and part the mix. The plants that like moisture are doing great it in but the ones that like to dry out more between watering have been problematic in it. I do have a tendency to overwater though, which is why I think the EcoScraps is working better for me.

Pistil - Thanks for the recommendation. I may look for that in a more manageable quantity. I'd love to stock up but I simply don't have a place to store it.

These pictures are from yesterday. The stalks are still browning (rotting?) from the top down. Cutting below it just seems to delay the spread by a few days.

It's looking like a goner. I would pull it out of the mix and examine the roots. Cut off the rotted parts for sure. If it is like a Ti plant you can start a new plant from a small bare stem. On my dracaena plants I've kept them in the same pot they came in for the last 2 to 4 years - they become a little gangly due to being tall in a very small pot though.

Second one is an oddball (given to me by another DG member about 9 years ago in the same pot and soil) and in this photo is blooming. I think this is Gold Dust.