Changes to the Forums

Really Sorry BUT, still dont understand the need for any change,especially to the extent we are told is a good layout, good layout, more simplified etc, etc, excuse me, your not understanding what members are saying, there was nothing more simpler that the system we all know, liked and trusted was easy to navigate. Almost idiot proof, you know, like easy for NOVICE gardeners to find, use and participate in because they could understand
If you don't mind me saying, your being rather patronising to the members who have had one change after another (without any warnings this was happening) then to inform that "change is always hard at first BUT, you'll get used to it" Sorry I'm an adult female, raised 3 kids now adults, am a grandmother run a home, worked and care for ten acrea of ground so please dont try tell me how to suck eggs,

My difficulty today is, I was never informed there was a new formula / layout, been a member for years and have never in all those years read any complaint regarding the system or were these messages sent by morse code, you know, flashing lights etc.

You could quite easily have sent out a notice to all members asking IF they wanted a new formula that no one but yourselves (Admin) could understand, Or leave the forum Formula as it is,
members TICK BOX 1 YES. Box 2 NO. Now surely that's a far more simpler way to find out the members feelings regarding changing a system that worked perfectly.

I.m absolutely NOT suggesting for one Moment you guy's have NOT spent a lot of time and energy trying to alter a system that obviously DID NOT NEED CHANGE as there was no complaints to be read from any members, but maybe I blinked and missed those.

Ofcource change takes time to get used to jeeees there are many changes all through life BUT my objection is, we've been presented with change where there was nothing wrong with what we already had, therefore the new change was not necessary and from what the others say, they believe the system we had worked well, clear to understand and friendly, one click to find the forum your following and ofcource Gardening is changing BUT it's NOT changing overnight,
it took me a full 10 minutes to find this thread so I could catch up with it, how on earth is that easy.
Let's go back to the system we already had, trusted and enjoyed.

As regards new member finding the layout they will get used to, as they will know no other system, so does that indicate you DONT care about the members who have been loyal, renewed memberships year after year, how absolutely disgraceful, or am I just NOT even understanding your thought on this NOW serious matter. maybe my brain cells are just failing me right now.
I have loved being a member of this site, felt safe, try to help new gardeners and in general find most people very friendly, admired all the hard work from the Admin BUT what I think the site has lost at this present time is, without listening to the members views, there could be no Daves gardening site, People are genuinely upset and are tying in the politest, kindest way possible to tell they DONT want .like or understand ANY of the reasons for such changes. but Hey like I said at the start, maybe I'm just brainless. the changes are NOT really on anyones wavelength to be honest.

Better close as I'm not sure Admin actually understand the views from members re changes to the system, so complete lack of communication from all sides,
Kindest Regards.
WeeNel.

LOL I'm sorry, Terry, but I don't see milk jugs as being a traditional method. I'm still giggling here.

Terry, I guess I should comment since your one "pushback" was from my example.

I get what you're saying about it being more like lawnmowers and string trimmers rather than groceries and sporting goods. But when I go to a website looking for info on push-type lawn mowers, I filter out string trimmers and riding lawn mowers to make my search easier.

If I'm shopping for lawn mowers in a store I wouldn't expect the above three items to be all mixed up so I have to wander up and down aisles to cull out what I'm looking for.

The issue that makes searching the new forum format most difficult, in my opinion, is that threads from different forums are arranged by date, not subject. If I want to read other members issues with clay soil or just increase my knowledge of composting, it's time consuming and confusing to scan a lot of unrelated threads clumped into Organic Gardening (I think it's Organic Gardening?).

Thank goodness when my favorite grocery stores rearrange they keep the boxed cereal in one aisle otherwise I might never find my Cheerios. The soup may be mixed with other cans, but my favorites like Progresso are all clustered together, not all over the aisle. :o)

If the "Search Forums" feature was more usable maybe combining the forums wouldn't be quite as big of an issue, but because the Search feature only understands single words it's near impossible to look up most subjects. Is it possible to make the Search feature accept multiple words (maybe by putting all the words in quotes)?

I know it's just the start and there may still be adjustments and tweaks. I'm obviously not the only member that doesn't care for the new format. Speaking for myself, I'm really patient and very willing to wait it out. I know in the end I may still not be happy with the changes, but it wouldn't be the first time I've had to deal with changes I didn't like.

Hopefully you and Melody and the techs will consider some of the suggestions, but if not I know I always have two choices, but since I don't plan on leaving I'll live it with however it ends up.

Thanks for listening.

I think raised beds are pretty traditional gardening. But that may just be here. How are newbies supposed to find info on soil and composting when there is no forum? I just lurked there but there was so much great info now it's all spread out.

My membership came up for renewal recently but with a lot going on, I didn't get to it. I had planned to do so after Labor Day.....until now. Even though I have been a member, I have been learning a lot on DG..... when I knew where to look. I had many threads in many forums I was reading. Now I can't find them and am too disgusted to continue trying. As a newbie to plants/gardening etc., it is difficult to search for something when you don't know what it is called, much less what it will be considered and lumped into. To me propagation and germination are the same thing. Then there is;

"Scarification, stratification, scion wood...the list goes on....cold stratification" - what is all that? See; if I had heard/read those terms I might have been able to find it and relative threads in it's forum, but now, I guess I have to know is that normal? Is that "alternative"? or whatever the forum name may be? Guess I would have to know what it was to begin to try and learn about it.

Okay I admit I am stupid but that was the point in DG for me - to learn! I am sure for some, like Critter, who already have a wealth of plant/gardening information, much is redundant, but not everyone here has that knowledge. At this point, I am so lost I don't know if I will even pursue gardening at all.

I have to agree with Nuts and WeeNel - it is too much put together. IF I even find a thread I WAS reading it is someplace I would never have looked. Like;.... "oh yeah...there's a weed trimmer waaaay back in the shelf, behind all of the push mowers, behind the lawn tractors.....now how do I get to just that?"...By the time I MAY find it, I have other things I need to do. No, I think just a search in Google or Bing or whatever search engine used may find my answer faster than the hours I have spent here already trying to find the threads I WAS reading, much to no avail. I have found a couple of the threads I posted to often and may stay with them but for the idea of actually learning? I don't think so. It seems the files are just as bad. If I knew enough about a plant to know it's proper name - maybe - but hey, that takes time and learning. You can't do too much learning when your time is eaten up by looking for something, in some who knows what forum that MAY be what I am looking for.

Terri, Melody - I am sure you worked hard on what you thought was a good idea, but I agree with the majority here - this new thing really sucks. If you judged this change (in part) on "how many people came here and turned around and left", then IMO, that number will increase particularly for the newbies to plants and gardening. That is sad. When, as you say; "the dust settles and we will get used to it", again IMO, you may find yourself with only the already knowledgeable members. Perhaps that is your intent, I don't know. I think the newbies already here and many who will come and try to learn will be so lost, they will resort to others places and searches. Who knows? A google search may send us back here for the answer - BUT we won't be spending hours on here trying to figure out how a thread or forum might be classified.

At this point I will not renew my membership. Good luck to everyone - you're going to need it.

My membership came up for renewal recently but with a lot going on, I didn't get to it. I had planned to do so after Labor Day.....until now. Even though I have been a member, I have been learning a lot on DG..... when I knew where to look. I had many threads in many forums I was reading. Now I can't find them and am too disgusted to continue trying.[/quote]

Do you get to threads via the main forums page, or your home page? Your own logged-in home page should be the easiest place to find all the forums you've marked as "favorites" and the threads you are watching, which generally happens automatically when you start a thread or post to someone else's thread.

It doesn't matter where a thread is located, you should be able to reach it from that page if you're watching it, as soon as something new is posted.

You can also use your member page to glance through the threads you have started and /or are watching, even if they don't have new activity. For those of us with literally thousands of threads out there, that list is unwieldy, but if the thread you're looking for has had recent activity, it should be near the top of the list.

Quote from lovetopaint :

As a newbie to plants/gardening etc., it is difficult to search for something when you don't know what it is called, much less what it will be considered and lumped into. To me propagation and germination are the same thing. Then there is;

"Scarification, stratification, scion wood...the list goes on....cold stratification" - what is all that? See; if I had heard/read those terms I might have been able to find it and relative threads in it's forum, but now, I guess I have to know is that normal? Is that "alternative"? or whatever the forum name may be? Guess I would have to know what it was to begin to try and learn about it.

Okay I admit I am stupid but that was the point in DG for me - to learn! I am sure for some, like Critter, who already have a wealth of plant/gardening information, much is redundant, but not everyone here has that knowledge. At this point, I am so lost I don't know if I will even pursue gardening at all.[/quote]

In addition to using your home page and your member page, you can always search the forums or the site using a key word - such as scarification, etc. If you use the site search for that, you'll find a definition in the Gardenology section, as well as any forum threads that contain the term.

We don't expect members to know everything there is to know about gardening before they start. If that were the case, most likely NONE of us would have ever took a breath, and stuck a shovel in the ground for the first time :-). But there is a LOT of information on the site, and our goal is to try to make it as easy to find it as possible - for those who care to seek it out. And for it to not get in the way for those who don't.

[quote="lovetopaint"]I have to agree with Nuts and WeeNel - it is too much put together. IF I even find a thread I WAS reading it is someplace I would never have looked. Like;.... "oh yeah...there's a weed trimmer waaaay back in the shelf, behind all of the push mowers, behind the lawn tractors.....now how do I get to just that?"...By the time I MAY find it, I have other things I need to do. No, I think just a search in Google or Bing or whatever search engine used may find my answer faster than the hours I have spent here already trying to find the threads I WAS reading, much to no avail. I have found a couple of the threads I posted to often and may stay with them but for the idea of actually learning? I don't think so. It seems the files are just as bad. If I knew enough about a plant to know it's proper name - maybe - but hey, that takes time and learning. You can't do too much learning when your time is eaten up by looking for something, in some who knows what forum that MAY be what I am looking for.

Let me challenge that thinking a little: we have over 700,000 registered members. If all of them actively participated in our forums, there's a good chance that many of our forums would be "overrun" (we would say "very active") with posts. That would be a good thing, and you would be accustomed to that level of activity. So our efforts here are to make sure that if when a member posts a question, it goes to the widest possible audience for an answer...without going to the ridiculous extreme of putting everything into one forum. The number of new threads in a forum may seem a little daunting, but I really mean it when I encourage you to give it some time, and give your eyes a chance to adjust. You may find you can learn more, and help others more now than in the past.

[quote="lovetopaint"]Terri, Melody - I am sure you worked hard on what you thought was a good idea, but I agree with the majority here - this new thing really sucks. If you judged this change (in part) on "how many people came here and turned around and left", then IMO, that number will increase particularly for the newbies to plants and gardening. That is sad. When, as you say; "the dust settles and we will get used to it", again IMO, you may find yourself with only the already knowledgeable members. Perhaps that is your intent, I don't know. I think the newbies already here and many who will come and try to learn will be so lost, they will resort to others places and searches. Who knows? A google search may send us back here for the answer - BUT we won't be spending hours on here trying to figure out how a thread or forum might be classified.

At this point I will not renew my membership. Good luck to everyone - you're going to need it.

So, I looked at the top of my page and it said I was watching 20 forums.

I counted, and there were 11 showing.

So, I went to the Preferences page, FORUMS, and saw two main forum headings under gardening.

NO LIST OF FORUMS TO SELECT FROM EXCEPT THOSE TWO.

Surely, this was an error, and I needed to refresh, sooooooooooooooooooooooooo

I clicked on SUBMIT...

And, now, every unlisted forum is showing up on my page. Even ones I didn't watch....

Before this, I read every comment above, with an open mind.

Now, I'm just plain irritated.....

P.S. "Roundups" is brilliant, but, could we have check boxes for our respective areas? Like Texas Roundups, California Roundups, etc...

Thanks!

You know, Terry, we've been together for a good number of years. I feel your pain, most days..

I already rebuilt my list...

It's all good.

HOWEVER...would ya'll at least consider splitting out the BEGINNERS forum into "Beginner Vegetables" and "Beginner Plants/Flowers/Other Gardening"?

It's a royal pain to look for the vegetable questions all lumped together with the plant/flowers and other beginner questions, e.g., "What's killing my houseplant?" ....

Thank you.

Patti, I noticed the Stickies too and immediately marked them as "Unread" just in case they disappear (I was already "Watching" them).

Terry and/or Melody Thank You for putting them there!

Gymgirl ~ Thank You for bumping a bunch of eBucket threads...brilliant! They all jumped to the top of my home page since I was already watching them...Yay!

That might also be a good idea for Winter Sowing and some of the other forums and threads people are having trouble finding.

I feel like somebody came in my kitchen and put everything away but only they know where it is. I would have loved some warning. I'm a lurker so I dont get updates I just went to the forum but now I don't know where to look except google. I feel like with all that is going on with the files we didn't need this too.

Where are Poppies?

I hope you won't give up on us just yet. Let me see if I can sort this out.[/quote]

After the last few days of hours spent trying to find stuff I WAS reading to no avail, I think it's too late for me to care.

Quote from Terry :

Do you get to threads via the main forums page, or your home page? Your own logged-in home page should be the easiest place to find all the forums you've marked as "favorites" and the threads you are watching, which generally happens automatically when you start a thread or post to someone else's thread.

It doesn't matter where a thread is located, you should be able to reach it from that page if you're watching it, as soon as something new is posted.

You can also use your member page to glance through the threads you have started and /or are watching, even if they don't have new activity. For those of us with literally thousands of threads out there, that list is unwieldy, but if the thread you're looking for has had recent activity, it should be near the top of the list.[/quote]



No, I went to the forums page. As I said, I READ a lot trying to learn, I was not posting willy-nilly everywhere. So, most of what I was reading I never posted to. I never had to "favorite" anything because I knew where I had been and where I wanted to go. Had we had some forewarning all this was coming, perhaps I (and apparently many others) would have known to go to all the forums we were reading and mark them favorites so we could find them again. It is a little late for that now. I have only started a couple threads and because I did, I know their titles and I found them. Beyond that, the rest are lost somewhere beyond the lawn tractors, and push mowers in a shelf with the trimmers that I can't even see. So all the "Easiest way to find them is from your home page with your favorites" doesn't work for me and truth be told, I doubt it fits a lot of others too. Many people just read. Who even knew we should "watch" them, when we went there almost every day?

Quote from Terry :

In addition to using your home page and your member page, you can always search the forums or the site using a key word - such as scarification, etc. If you use the site search for that, you'll find a definition in the Gardenology section, as well as any forum threads that contain the term.[/quote]


Again that is assuming we even know what to search. If it is something to learn in a forum, about whatever type gardening we're reading about, we would learn WHAT it is and also in context with other relative information about the topic at the same time.



[quote="Terry"]We don't expect members to know everything there is to know about gardening before they start. If that were the case, most likely NONE of us would have ever took a breath, and stuck a shovel in the ground for the first time :-). But there is a LOT of information on the site, and our goal is to try to make it as easy to find it as possible - for those who care to seek it out. And for it to not get in the way for those who don't.


Let me challenge that thinking a little: we have over 700,000 registered members. If all of them actively participated in our forums, there's a good chance that many of our forums would be "overrun" (we would say "very active") with posts. That would be a good thing, and you would be accustomed to that level of activity. So our efforts here are to make sure that if when a member posts a question, it goes to the widest possible audience for an answer...without going to the ridiculous extreme of putting everything into one forum. The number of new threads in a forum may seem a little daunting, but I really mean it when I encourage you to give it some time, and give your eyes a chance to adjust. You may find you can learn more, and help others more now than in the past.

I think I understand what you are trying to say... but, I don't think you are hearing what seems like 99% of the posters to this thread have said. Put simply; your making it "easier" is actually making it confusing for someone who doesn't know this stuff, nor where to start. Sure, post a question so that many people will see it and may answer but you have to have a clue where to even post it, and it is much harder to find and decide that now. I am sure there is no shortage of those members who can't wait to tell you that you need to ask that elsewhere. I've had that before as it was. I can only imagine how likely that will be now with everything in one big pile. It seems those piles will be at whomever's discretion as to what is an appropriate question on that forum or should be somewhere else.


[quote="Terry"]Again, we honestly think that newbies will be less lost, namely because there are fewer pigeonholes for them to look in. What is more overwhelming to a new member or novice gardener with a peony question: a single forum called "perennials" or trying to figure if you should post your question in a forum for peonies or one for cottage gardening, or one for fragrant gardening, or beginner flower gardening, or perennials? And where will they get the most possible answers?.

Before you'd post in that single forum "perennials" that is so "easy", would you not have to first know it was a perennial? My grandmother had peony's but until recently I didn't know it was a perennial. It is one I did search and I searched "peony" and guess what? I found out it was a perennial. I found it was easy to grow. I found it was very fragrant and often used in cottage gardening even though it was all in different forums. Now; I would have to know it was a perennial to even start. Heck I didn't know the difference from an annual to a perennial until I was almost 50.

I am admittedly ignorant with flowers and gardening, but I wanted to learn. I have had to work hard all my life and never had time for it before. I am not a total idiot though. I may be female but I can rebuild a car's engine &/ or transmission, I did not learn it all from a book entitled "car". It was many books on each detailed thing, like one entitled "Fluid Dynamics" to understand how the clutch and transmission work. I can (and have) sit and discussed quantum mechanics with a physicist. Again that knowledge came from reading and learning specifics, not a grand overview of a book entitled "Science". I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on the "improvement" to DG.



[quote="Terry"]We've taken some of the guesswork out of that question, and we genuinely hope it will be easier for everyone to find the information they're looking for.