It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 6

Prior to 2 1/2 inches of rain I took these two zinnia pictures. Photo #3 Just sitting on the porch watching the pouring down rain.

Those are both keepers Brenda, a bi-tone and a tubular! Wow, what a view, I am thoroughly impressed. I could sit there and look at that all day long.

Thanks for the compliment. I was lucky to get two mutants, a tubular petal and a star ended petal -- both came from commercial seed packets. I have been doing a lot of crossing with them. I kind of hope to find another mutant to add to the mix. In Brenda's message that pink specimen with uprolled and upcurled petals borders on being a mutant, and I think its progeny would be interesting, unlike any commercial zinnia.

ZM

Hi Brenda,

Both are unusual zinnias. It is interesting that the orange one fades to create a two-tone effect. That is a bit unusual. I think the second one, with uprolled and upcurved petals has real potential. That view of yours is splendid -- you have some very good landscaping in addition to your large zinnia beds.

I mudded in a couple of zinnia beds today, using some old seeds. If those don't come up well I will replant with newer seeds.. Planting in the mud is a bit messy, but time is running out for me to plant zinnias with time to evaluate them and get seeds from the good ones,.

I plan to plant another zinnia seed bed in the morning. I am looking forward to seeing some fireworks tomorrow evening. Several of our neighbors set off some good fireworks this evening. We live in a rural area, where it is apparently legal to set off fireworks any day of the year, except when there is a no-burn order with dry weather.. As wet as it has been, there is no chance of Fourth of July fireworks setting a brush fire. Have a happy Fourth.

ZM

Have you seen Brenda's bi-tone in commerce? You'll be able to find another mutant, you've already found two.

[quote="Zen_Man"]
I mudded in a couple of zinnia beds today, using some old seeds. If those don't come up well I will replant with newer seeds.. Planting in the mud is a bit messy, but time is running out for me to plant zinnias with time to evaluate them and get seeds from the good ones,.

I mudded through a couple of zinnia rows with the knee boots on this eve to do some culling. Since Saturday afternoon we have had 5 1/2" rain, so plenty of mud around our neck of the woods. The only thing I found a little unique on my pass through were these -see photo's below. I must of culled 3 (5 gallon) buckets of zinnia blooms and broken plants. Good for the compost.

As for the #1 photo, I like the almost green shade and I have not had Envy zinnia in years or any other green zinnia. Maybe it is whiter than I think, but it looked almost green. Photo 2,3 & 4 are different blooms from the same plant (I like the orange streaks). Photo #5 - just different.

Speaking of mud - The zinnia that I planted in the wetland area the 18th of June are struggling and have been under water from all the recent rain. Hope they make it, as that will be my best of the best. Crossing my fingers. . . . .

Robin -We need to see your zinnia's too.

Keep up the good work!

Hi Robin,

No, I have not seen a commercial zinnia like Brenda's two-tone orange. That zinnia should qualify as a breeder. Burpee has a zinnia called Exquisite that fades a lot from a rose color to much lighter shades of pink. But it isn't orange, and Exquisite doesn't do such a good job of having the fading petals at the same time as the new petals. So, Brenda's two-tone orange is new.

Thanks for your optimism about my chances for finding a third mutant. Believe me, I am staying on the lookout for one.

ZM

They are all pretty but you can't help but notice that two tone orange bloom! I hope your zinnias survive the mud, Brenda.

Argh Brenda, I come here to get my Zinnia fix. I don't grow them, I'm afraid of powdery mildew...I've got a small yard and have to pack as much in as I can. I'm also a bit of a perennial girl and have been hybridizing Daylilies. I'll share those once I get some results, this is only year two.

I've got to side with Loretta and keep my fingers crossed for your wetland bed too. Although, I've seen you pull through with flying colors before! Good luck anyway.

ZM I'm in awe of your abilities and dedication. It must be so difficult to keep a focused objective with all of those possibilities. My hat's off to you. Both you and Brenda keep up the great work. I so enjoy this thread.

Mipii - Hum, hybridizing daylilies. I've never tried that, though I have read and heard about it. Good luck! Go for the fragrant ones - I think they are my favorite.

No rain today. We have had upwards of 7 inches since last Saturday, probably some of the leftover rain that ZM was also having. I hope ZM you are not still having to deal with the mud.

A garden club is supposed to be coming for a garden tour here next week, so we have been trying to whip things into shape around here today. At least it was overcast and the sun was not baring down hot. Late this eve I couldn't resist checking out some of my zinnias so I put on the big boots and got me a bucket and scissors and off I went. Lots of zinnia had fallen over because of all the rain, so I had to cut me a path between the two rows. These were the only unique ones I came across as I spent most of my time deadheading. The largest blossom I measured was 5 1/2" and I'm holding out for larger.

Thanks for the luck Brenda, I am trying to work with the fragrant Daylilies. Thanks for the update on your weather situation, I hope you get back to normal precipitation for the rest of the season.

The interesting blossoms you found look really good, they all have unique traits. A 51/2" bloom is pretty big, those would have to have pretty sturdy stems to hold up in the rain.

Hi! I'm new to this thread and was looking for additional info on the below zinnias. I saved seeds from my zinnia last year and when I planted one I ended up with this! From what I've read on other forums, this is a male sterile zinnia and my original zinnia must have been an F1 hybrid. I pollinated it today with pollen from some other zinnias. My questions: now what? How will I know if it pollinated? If it did, how do I collect the seeds? Will it grow petals? Will the seeds form somewhere else on the flower? There is very little information about this out there! Please help! Thank you!

Hi FireFly,

Your zinnia is what they call a femina, and they are used to create commercial F1 zinnia hybrids. You are right, it is male sterile. The pollen you applied was to its stigmas, and the fertilized stigmas will shrivel in a day or two. That is how you tell a stigma got fertilized. The stigmas that didn't "take" will remain yellow and you will have a second or third chance to get them fertilized.

The femina will not grow petals, and that is why they refer to them as apetalous. The seeds will form at the base of the stigmas. Each stigma is attached to a seed, just like in regular zinnias. Feminas are just like regular zinnias, only without petals or pollen florets.

There are a couple of options for how you collect the seeds. Most people let the zinnia seed-head mature, die, and get brown, and they collect that seed-head and thresh the seeds out of it.

An alternative is to collect green seeds. It takes a fertilized zinnia embryo about three weeks to mature and you can pull the individual seeds out of the bloom and either plant them immediately for an attempt at a second generation of zinnias that season, or dry them for storage and use the following year. There are advantages to the green seed method. You avoid rain damage to the seeds because a prolonged rainy season can cause zinnia seeds to germinate in the head, which ruins them. Also harvesting the seeds as green seeds can prevent seed eating birds, like finches, from eating your zinnia seeds.

If you have questions about any of this, don't hesitate to ask. That looks like an interesting femina zinnia that you have.

ZM.

Interesting topic about the fermina. I haven't seen anything like that in all my dealings with zinnia.

I find myself already saving seed from the scabiosa zinnia and a few others. The four rows of zinnia that I have in 4 different gardens are doing great and blooming like crazy. As for my Wetland Garden with all the zinnia, the stand is not so great. It has been planted over 30 days now and then the flood waters came. Where the zinnia were already sprouted and up, there appears to be a decent stand (but only a small area and at the end of a couple rows). I need to get down there with the tiller and see if I can make heads or tails of it. After 30 days in the ground - I'm thinking everything is up that is coming up. I'm scratching my head wondering if I should give in to buying seed - though, the grow time is running out and finding seed could mean ordering (more time).

It is amazing how many pollinators are attracted by zinnia.

ZM - I've yet to plant this years seed - but opportunity is knocking.

ZM - As for the zinnia that you mudded in? Were they plants or seed. If plants, I'm thinking that could work. If it was seed - I'm not so optimistic as per what I just mentioned about the ones I had planted. I'll stay optimistic that your mudding in has worked.

We saw 100 degrees on the temp gauge at noon followed by thunder & lightning, so that has me in doors for a while, thinking about things I could be doing outside. HUM!

ZM, thank you for the info! It was exactly what I was looking for. The femina zinnia is gigantic, just as big as any other zinnia plant might get. It has numerous "blooms" but all of those are feminas. I have another zinnia in the same flower pot that sprouted very late so it's a bit behind. It just began to bloom today and is a very nice shade of pink with just one, maybe two, rows of petals. It's a small flower but at least it's a flower, haha! I am hoping once it starts to produce pollen that some bees will stop by and more of the femina will be pollinated.

Thank you again for the information and advice!


This message was edited Jul 19, 2016 8:21 PM

Hi Brenda,

I mudded in zinnia seeds. All the plants I set out went in the ground in late April and early May. The seed mudding was messy, but after I got them in, I sprinkled them a little to smooth the surface a bit.I have been adding sand as a soil amendment and the resultilng sandy loam tolerates mudding in much better than our native silty clay loam. I got pretty good germination within a week.

With regard to yours, any seeds that haven't emerged in two weeks probably aren't coming up. This might be a good time to plant some of those scabiosa seed you just saved.

I am attaching a picture of a zinnia that has interesting ends on its petals. More later.

ZM

ZM - Thanks for the advise on planting my this years seed.

I've been out checking my zinnia and here are a few that I find this eve to be a little out of the ordinary. Gee - It looks like I'm hung up on pink & purple today. The last one I posted is my favorite. The second one I posted reminds me of lipstick for some reason. I didn't get photo #4 cropped very well - woops.

Today, it was time I go visit a dear friend with stage 4 cancer. I opted to try and cheer her up by taking her a bouquet of zinnia sunshine. I took yellow, orange and red zinnia. She loved them. Most of them were larger zinnia, but I did pick a few scabiosa zinnia to add to the mix. It is sure nice to be able to just go out with scissors in hand and water in a bucket, and pick and choose just the right zinnia for the right circumstance. Recently I did a floral demo for a group of garden club ladies and you guessed it, I took several zinnia to work with. The most perfect I could find and I color coordinated them with the vase I was arranging them in. It went very well and it was a great group of club members (both women & men).

I've cultivated my Wetland Garden this afternoon - I went super slow in hopes of not covering those babies with dirt. I should be down there right now uncovering any I may have covered. I also need to take my rotiller down there, but it is a long walk. It is really hot out there. I think the zinnia like that HOT & HUMIDITY way more than I do.

Keep cool!

Hi Brenda,

Your third zinnia shows strong Whirligig influence -- giving it a unique look. You have some nice up-curled petal specimens. I don't mind the crop on number four at all. I am attaching a picture showing most of a whole zinnia plant. I like its spreading plant form and its pointed leaves. And it is floriferous. Well, I am headed out into the heat and humidity. It has been sauna-like for the last several days.

ZM

Outstanding zinnia ZM. That one is beautiful. Your hybridizing techniques have paid off there.

Yes, sauna-like here too. I was out early while the sky was overcast. Today is the latest I have ever planted zinnia and not only that, it was the first time I have planted seed from newly harvested seedheads. Will be interesting.

Keep hydrated.

Z I've got to agree with Brenda...that one is outstanding! I love it!

Brenda, yours are pretty beautiful too, I can just imagine them all in the same bed as they're all in the same color family. Lipstick it is now that you mention it. That would be a great name for it. I don't think I could pick just one of yours.

Have to agree that last one is an outstanding plant, ZM. It's nice to see the habit. The flower form is very effective when you see it like this.

Brenda, a very beautiful collection!

As hot as it - this crazy person went out and took pictures of zinnias while ago. This is what I have blooming today. The pollinators are a BUZZ amidst the zinnia.
I wasn't so excited about the last zinnia in photos, but I was amazed with the number of blooms this plant has.

Hi Brenda,

That 7-bloom plant is unusual, and worthy of being designated as a breeder, labeled, and have all the seed it produces saved.

I have been crossing my Razzle Dazzles with larger zinnias in an attempt to get big Razzle Dazzles. The F1 hybrids of RDs with "regular" zinnias have a somewhat different and unexpected look. They are different, but don't look at all like the Razzle Dazzles. I have hopes that F2 recombinants from their saved seeds will show some new more Razzle-Dazzle-like larger forms.

ZM

ZM - Larger Razzle Dazzles would be a grand specimen. Keep up the good work.

I've been out working with some of my zinnia today and here are a couple of pictures I'll share. See in the first photo not only ar the petals rolled, I also noticed the foilage of that one is somewhat rolled and the leaves are pointed. In the second photo you will notice that the foliage has some not so welcome spots, but I thought the colors of the zinnia were good.

My mid June planting of zinnia seed is somewhat better than I initially thought. My July 23 planting of 2016 zinnia seed are not up just yet. Still hopeful!

Hi Brenda,

I absolutely love the foliage on that first one. Sharply pointed leaves and wavy leaf edges. Definitely save every seed that specimen will produce..

I don't have a lot of scabious recombinants, but this is one specimen. It has more than the usual number of guard petals and they have an informal cactus-based style. And the center transitions from conventional scabious florets to normal pollen florets. It reminds me to plant more scabious stuff next year.

ZM

ZM - A true spinoff of the original scabiosa. Very interesting.

Are you getting lots and lots of butterflies on your zinnia and of course a few goldfinch?

Hi Brenda,

I am not getting nearly as many butterflies as usual. I have yet to see a Monarch this year. And no Viceroy mimic either. I don't know why there are so few butterflies. The bee count is also way down. At least we have a good hummingbird population. And there are plenty of goldfinches. So far I haven't seen any bird attacks on my zinnia seedheads.

Am attaching a picture of a breeder zinnia with picotee coloration. Color concentration at the petal ends and sides. It also has an almost metallic sheen. Very unusual.

I didn't notice that tiny insect until I was processing the picture. I would like to learn more about the micro insects of Kansas.. More later.

ZM

ZM - I cannot believe you have no bird attacks on your zinnia. They're all over mine and I have to be really careful and watch or they will take all the good seed and leave me none. They know exactly when and where to harvest. Amazing! Needless to say, I have been collecting seed all along. I must not collect much zinnia seed in the way of yellow and white as those are the ones I have with the least blooms. I must work with hybridizing more of those this year. The ones I have look good, I just need more.

ZM - You mentioned not seeing any Monarchs. I have seen 3 so far this year and it was as if they were on a mission and did not linger long. I don't think they were even on the zinnia. I see the swamp milkweed is blooming out by the pond so hopefully we will be seeing more orange flutters.

The picotee coloration is interesting. From what I see, it looks to have some cactus lineage, too. Nice!

It has been a rainy morning here. Looks like we scored another 1/2" of rain. Prior to, the sky was really black. I think we have had rain of sorts every day for the last week at least. Hum. . . . . that is definitely different for July.

Keep on posting pictures of your zinnias, they are always such a treat..

I love them ALL!

A few VERY small zinnia blooms from my, this years crop. Hope you can appreciate these little guys - they are all about the size of a quarter. Certainly prize winners for dwarf zinnia at the local county fair.

Hi Brenda,

Those tiny zinnias are kind of cute, because they look like baby versions of dahlia flowered zinnias. I have a specimen in bloom of a zinnia flower form that I refer to as "Shaggy Dog". Its petals sort of hang down instead of sticking out from the bloom core. If its petals stood out straight it would approach 7 inches in diameter. I hope that at least some of its progeny will have petals that stand out to create a very large zinnia bloom. I am busy doing Fall cleanup in my gardens. More later.

ZM


This message was edited Aug 28, 2016 10:51 PM

ZM - The "Shaggy Dog" is a good name - looks pretty impressive. If you can get the stand out version, that too would be impressive as well.

Hi Brenda,

I hope to get some seeds from the Shaggy Dog. I am also watching my other zinnias for any larger-than-normal ones. I am attaching a picture of a current zinnia with a rather unusual variation of its flower form.

It is fairly large, but not "giant" by my standards. I think a zinnia needs to be 6 inches or more in diameter to be considered as "giant". However, I think most seed catalogs consider 5 inches or more as "giant". By seed catalog standards, this zinnia is giant.

ZM

Yes - ZM that is a rather unusual variation of flower form.

Great to see so many types of zinnia! Thanks for sharing! We tried some cactus zinnia this year, and plant to try some giant ones next year.

ZM- I LOVE 'Shaggy dog'! Just think if the petals were two inches longer and still hung down! I would want them in my yard. Material for my (theoretical) Dr. Seuss Garden.

"Shaggy Dog" is spectacular! I Love it!

Glad you all like the Shaggy Dog. I like it too.

Hello GoPlantGo,

" We tried some cactus zinnia this year, and plant to try some giant ones next year. "

For a "giant" zinnia, you might want to try a few Giants of California, or California Giants as they are sometimes called. Their flowers are fairly large, but what is really "giant" about them is the height of their plants. The ones that I grew this year were about a foot taller than my Benary's Giants, which are also a large bloomed tall zinnia.

Some of the California Giants have spoon-shaped petals, which I like. It was Brenda who inspired me to go after the spoon-shaped petal look, with some of her specimens. To me, they look a lot more like dahlias than most of the so-called "dahlia flowered" zinnias. I am attaching a couple of pictures of my California Giants.

ZM

Beautiful purples ZM

Here are a couple zinnia blooms of the day from here.