I don't think there's anything to be proud of by shooting a defenseless animal. Just because someone got lucky enough that a 10 point buck crosses their path and they shoot it doesn't make them great. I don't think the pumpkin analogy applies because there is some skill of the gardener involved in growing, i.e. watering, fertilizing, extra attention. Same could be said for the hunter too with skill in shooting. That's correct, but that's what they make target boards for. Be proud of that. Now if someone used a compound bow, sling, or spear to get the deer, that might be another story. At least it give the deer a more even advantage. Same goes for flint lock guns. Much more skill needed and the playing field is leveled. I'm ranting but this is something I'm passionate about.
Another thing, I don't know if many of you watch one of those Alaska shows but there were two fellows hunting and when the one guy killed a doe, he thanked the animal for giving its life so his family could eat. THAT, I respect.
FALL FOLIAGE AND BERRIES END OF SEASON PICS!! TAKE 2
Wolves used to control the deer population in my neighborhood; however, "from as early as 1632 records indicate that wolves had caused much damage in the region. The General Assembly, in trying to deal with the wolf menace, offered rewards of tobacco for those who constructed pits or traps to capture and deliver wolf heads to the General Assembly. A smaller reward was given to those who used a gun or some other means to kill the animals." http://www.wolftrap.org/Learn_About_Wolf_Trap/History.aspx
The farm that used to be in this area was called Wolf Trap, which is why we have Wolf Trap Creek, Wolf Trap Elementary School, etc. etc.
People say they've seen coyotes in our woods. I believe it, because I once saw a deer carcass that something larger than a fox had started to eat (don't ask me how I know). I bet that fawns are easy pickings for coyotes, maybe even for foxes.
Sequoia, hunters are required to use bows and arrows when helping to cull deer in my area, probably in other built-up areas as well. Only the police officers who accompany them are allowed to use guns.
In PA, there are many different weapon seasons for deer. We also have coyote and, unfortunately, it is open season on them all year round. Luckily, I'm told by hunters, that the coyote is more like a mirage and if you see one, you can blink your eye and it's gone.
Well, it's a big complex issue. I'm glad we're comfortable enough to discuss it sensitively and with respect for each other.
(For a few days there, I was afraid Seq himself got hijacked- )
Complex is a perfect way to describe it.
I checked out the berries on my Aronia melanocarpa today to see whether they've turned black yet: nope. My Cornus amomum have some nice reddish stems that should look nice against the snow. Nothing's photo-worthy right now, though.
I did some thinking about my winterberries and have decided not to fight the deer (they usually win anyway). I made a fishing line fence to keep them away, and it's working, but it's not invisible enough for me. I'll take it down and see what happens!
Thanks, Muddy, for the cool info on Wolf Trap and the link.
I don't mind getting hijacked Sally. I just like talking to you all so it doesn't matter much to me. I hope I was able to contain myself and not offend anyone.
[quote="sallyg"]Well, it's a big complex issue. I'm glad we're comfortable enough to discuss it sensitively and with respect for each other.
What she said.
You were fine, Sequoia!
just to be clear -- the idea of hunting "just for sport" turns my stomach, also. It's definitely a complex issue. In mentioning political pull, I was thinking of Ducks Unlimited... they helped bring about a lot of wetland protection legislation and wetland renewal funding, but I'm not sure you can make good arguments for the "necessity" of duck hunting. Geese, on the other hand, are a major pest in some areas as well as being a danger to air travel... see? more tangles.
I hear what you're saying, but sharpshooters with compound bows aren't trying to level the playing field... in suburban areas, you simply cannot have hunting with rifles, as the bullets can easily travel a mile or two. Shotguns (with rifled slugs, not pellets, for deer) are safer in terms of range and momentum (the slugs can be turned/slowed by even a little twig), and bows are maybe a little safer still.
When it comes to getting deer populations down to halfway reasonable numbers, I just want it done, as safely as possible.
I just wrote this long post about Ducks Unlimited and hunting with bows vs. shotgun vs. rifles... and the post went wiffling into the void... so I'll take that as a sign we need to get back to discussing fall / winter foliage and berries!
I picked a bunch of blackened coral honeysuckle berries this afternoon and extracted their seeds... does anybody know if that's the best way to go or if I should focus on red ripe berries instead?
Just a few comments:
A study by the Humane Society of US has found that contraceptive birth control is and effective means of deer population management and works for the long term stabilization as well. Can be ingested or darted into does and limits fertility for 3+ years for those treated. Seems like a good way to go especially in urban areas.
http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/deer/tips/deer-humane-control.html
Bow hunting as a means of culling results in fewer direct kills and more wounded, slow death kills than 'sharp shooting'
I am glad there is a movement amongst hunters to use non leaded bullets so that any game not retrieved doesn't poison those that scavenge any remains. (Eagles for instance)
Hunters and fishers can be great allies in conservation, preservation and restoration of habitat efforts.
Prison food, etc has to be 'fit for human consumption' ie, I couldn't take my extre hen eggs over to the prison each week either., or my heirloom tomatoes! I believe there also was and is a concern about 'deer wasting disease' that made venison less desirable as food.
Male deer are much less likely to be seen than does except during rutting. They are loners and stck much more to cover than does who have to eat more because of pregnancy or feeding young. And deer are nocturnal.
I gripe about deer damage to plants, but the reasons why I support anything that reduces the population are the risk of people dying due to deer accidents and the thought of deer starving.
The situation was clear-cut where my parents live in South Carolina: deer were starving, even though every body of fresh or brackish water has alligators that regularly grab pet dogs and recently killed a man who wanted to retrieve a golf ball.
I haven't had a deer accident, but one of my daughters rear-ended someone who swerved to avoid a deer, then swerved back into the lane. She thought he was turning. Thank God no one except the deer was hurt, but there was about $14,000 damage to the 2 cars (and guess whose fault it was!).
I've seen 2 deer injuries in my area that were very disturbing: a dazed, bloody buck that had just been hit by a car, his antlers partly knocked off; and a police officer shooting an injured deer on the beltway. Deer wouldn't cross roads as much if food and territory were plentiful, but that's not going to be the case in this area until wolves return IMO.
About hunters: few people would volunteer to sit in the freezing cold for hours on end waiting for deer unless there was something in it for them. If pleasure is what it takes, so be it!
I never understood why they don't put taller fences along the highways. They already put fence along most but they are only 3-4' tall.
$$ ?
I swear, every time I drive from Baltimore to Frederick and beyond, there must be a deer on the shoulder per 50 miles.
Money has to be a huge part of it. Any type of tall fence is expensive, as are the sound barriers that are usually installed because people demand them. What I really don't understand is why, when there are sound barriers, there are gaps between the sections. How expensive would it be to install something that lets people and machinery get through if necessary, but blocks deer?
Perhaps it's not a big enough problem. I don't know, you'd definitely think there's something that could be done.
Took my camera out today. Here we are at the end of the year and still have some green foliage and blooms:
Re-blooming Azalea, blooms in the spring and again between Thanksgiving and Christmas, a few blossoms still hanging on.
Kenilworth Ivy - Cymbalaria muralis
Die-hard Pansy from last spring.
Coral Honeysuckle
Cheerful!
What a long lived pansy. I bought six this fall in a similar color pattern.
I saw a bud on the Lamium weeds, berries on Berberis and Euonymus alata, on the neighbor's side of the fence (gr).
Very pretty Greenthumb.
Is it normal for Coral Honeysuckle to bloom this time of year?
When I was sowing seeds in the forest, I noticed that Spring Beauties (I think) are springing up. I've got to finish sowing soon so I don't crush those little beauties.
That Kenilworth Ivy is interesting GT. I have noticed this plant growing as a volunteer near our dwarf mugo pine. I just looked at it and it seems it may be the same thing you've pictured.
Post a photo or two. Would be surprised if you had Kenilworth Ivy growing as a volunteer, though stranger things happen.
This message was edited Dec 28, 2014 9:54 PM
looks like ground ivy to me- creeping charlie
It's a pretty crappy pic but it's dark and my phone was having trouble focusing.
Sequoia - what you have is the nice, lush growth of the winter annual known as Hairy Bittercress, Common Bittercress, Snapweed, or Shotweed. It will put up a flower spike with tiny white flowers in late winter. When the seed pods are ripe they explode explosively, throwing seeds 6 feet or more. Get all you can out now as this will take over if not aggressively controlled.
Chickweed!
That's a common annual winter weed. I think you can eat it, though...
OK - maybe that was the 2011 Coopers Crossing Chardonnay (Australia) typing.
I like the Hairy Bittercress answer better - though greenthumb99 could at least give the botanical name...
It's cardamine hirsuta. Now that I think about it, I've been battling this little fellow in another area of the yard where there is a ton of it growing. Yikes!
Dang! I take heat for using botanical names too much, and now get called for using common names for a (far too) common weed. Seesh!
We used to have a plentiful supply of Cardamine hirsuta all over our property. After several years of frequent winter and spring patrols we have eliminated most of it. In late winter we would search almost daily, pulling them by the hundreds. As the weather warms they appear as miniature plants, flowering at only one inch tall, so you really have to train your eyes.
Lol just chalk it up to the Chardonnay talking GT.
I think I'll take a nice pot of boiling water out this morning and lay down the law.
If you find the bittercress growing big and lush, you could put the greens in your salad. Tastes like broccoli.
I'm not a big salad fan. Vegetables and salad are what food eats. LOL
Happy New Year!
Given the emphasis on berry-producing shrubs, I thought this would be a good thread on which to let people know about Fairfax County's 2015 Native Seedling sale. This link shows what's on sale this year. http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/nvswcd/seedlingsale.htm
I have ordered shrub seedlings during the last 2 years and think the seedlings (bare-root, most with 1-2' top growth) are well worth the price. They have always been very healthy.
Last year's selection included Sambucus canadensis, and I was really disappointed to see that the seedling had only 3" of top growth. It was 3' tall 6 months later, however!
It's nice that your county puts on a sale like that. There doesn't seem to be much variety though.
Muddy, if you buy from them again this year, would you be willing to order & pick up a shrub / small tree package for me? I can pay you via PP, at the seed swap, or take it off your ADR order if you decide to join that group buy. Or I can give you $20 worth of daffodils I don't have in the ground yet, LOL.
Sure, I'll do that; we can settle up at the swap.
No more daffodils for me, thanks! I have too much of that foliage to remove as it is.
No spring blooms yet, but I think this container of succulents is as pretty as any flower!
https://twitter.com/DCTropics/status/555899817876942849/photo/1
There are so many beautiful things you can do with succulents. I love scrolling thru the succulents pins on pinterest.
Muddy, you could use a mix of willows in your swampy area. They would thrive there, add cover for birds, and can be attractive with their varied catkins. Our DS, Jamie has used a few to help soak up surface ground water at his place.
Our deer populations far exceed that found when the Pilgrims landed. Over browsing by deer is as much responsible for the reduction in songbirds as anything else, possibly combined. Talk about habitat loss, understory, and midstory canopies in terrestrial ecosystems is gone, due to over browsing.
Since reintroduction of the wolf in suburban US is not an option. Hunters must replace this Keystone predator. The coyote is not a viable alternative as the mesopredator. They are too opportunistic as hunters, and are not very successful in pack situations. They are as likely to make a meal of a little dog as try and bring down a healthy deer. Their style of hunting can do even more harm as far as impacting the tropic cascade, as does the fox, and racoon. If you frequently catch a glimpse of a fox, see scat, or footprints, I'll bet you rarely see rabbits, and almost never pheasants or grouse.
I hunted for years, not as much for sport as for meat and herd control. You can now share your deer with many food banks and other approved places through Hunters Sharing the Harvest Program. http://www.sharedeer.org/about-us/
Many sport hunters and herd control hunters embrace this program wholeheartedly. It justifies their actions, to them at least. The idea of sharing isn't new, I remember when I was a kid, Police and wardens would take road kill to Co. homes and even to needy families.
Until, for a while it became Politically Incorrect to do so based on the attitude most enthused by PETA and others. Sterilizing does is not cost effective and will not be until a long lasting ingestable is made available.
A few colorful Evergreen pics. I like this combo of the juniper, holly and golden thread cypress. Each has it's own color, shape and texture. There is also a Royal Cloak Japanese Barberry and a Black Dragon Cryptomeria which in time will add their own color, texture and shape to the grouping, just too small yet to contribute much.
