hahahaha
FALL FOLIAGE AND BERRIES END OF SEASON PICS!! TAKE 2
Poor kid! And lucky teacher that it didn't end up on her!
Thanks for the link, Coleup; it'll be useful in trying to identifying things. If I had known how much birds like Magnolia fruits (which the teacher mentions), I would have left all of the seed pods on my shrub. Next year!
Muddy, I like that link because it is organized by season or appearance in each season. I'm particularly in late season nectar sources for migrating Monarchs in my area (Oct and Nov!)
Was very happy to meet up with Mr. Jenkins at my Farmers Market this Sat. Two years ago he was there with some of the nicest fullest Winterberry branches for sale that I have seen and ditto back with them this holiday season. They are from an Ilex verticilliata that he was instrumental in naming and getting registered with the American Holly Society called 'Maryland Beauty' so a real native. Fascinating to hear him speak of the discovery of it with Gene Eisenbiess, the holly expert from the National Arboretum and process involved. Here is a link
http://www.hollysocam.org/year_08.htm
He says they do well in boggy or raingarden situations and take more shade than some others.
I could use some shrubs that do well in boggy, part-shade places. I have an area of at least 8 square yards in an area that gets inundated when it rains and stays moist. Right now I only have Pachysandra in it, but it is on my back-burner list of areas to transform. I could just plant Swamp Milkweed there for now, but I always prefer shrubs because they provide shelter and nesting spots for birds.
I have never seen 'Maryland Beauty' offered for sale; has anyone else?
You should converse more with Holly Society of America (HSA) royalty...
Good idea! I stopped just short of suggesting that in my post.
If I were privileged enough to meet HSA royalty, to where might they direct me in my quest for 'Maryland Beauty' or other shrubs (Viburnums come to mind) suitable for this area?
lol VV, no one at my local Farmers Market looks (or acts) like royalty! Just goes to show ya that every one has a story...I was just very 'taken' with the fat red berried branches and happy to finally learn the name of same. I confess that I have an interest in plant and plantsmen/women history and it's great to find local sources!
Foxboro Nursery was mentioned on Sat am and Forest Farms lists Maryland Beauty also.
"Jim Dandy' is the male pollinator needed, one male to eight female plants...
Upon further reflection, I think I'll look into Viburnum or other options for that area. First step will be to wait until trees leaf out and find out how much sun the area gets.
(VV, aka HSA Royalty, stop reading) So far, I'm not wild about my Ilex 'Sparkleberry' and 'Apollo' because they're only a 1 season shrub, if that. I think birds are eating the berries already, which is fine except that then I'll be left looking at bare shrubs totally lacking in winter interest.
One must be less oblique.
Do you want seeds? Do you want 6' x 6' full-to-ground B&B specimen?
It makes a difference to where one might be directed.
As far as HSA royalty go, I was kiddingly referring to current officers in the organization - such as myself. Real royalty are those patient plantsmen who would observe and critically evaluate such a plant for 40 years before deeming it worthy of naming and registering. Messrs. Jenkins rate that with me for that plant; I'd find myself bowing in their presence should I ever be worthy enough to meet them.
Conversely, I can be met anytime - seems I'm up through VA and Mid-Atlantic several times a year these days. Speaking of: put Hunt Valley, MD on your calendars for late October 2015. Great annual gathering of holly enthusiasts young and old, large and small - coming to your neck of the woods! Manor View Farm and Foxborough are on the tour itineraries, and many more interesting places/faces/chases...
68th Annual Meeting of Holly Society of America: http://www.hollysocam.org/meetings.htm
Meanwhile, I wouldn't limit myself to just one flavor - not when the likes of 'Autumn Glow', 'Cacapon', 'Bright Horizon', 'Chrysocarpa', 'Stoplight', and more could blind you at a glance...
"Upon further reflection...
I would invite thee to get out more often.
I would be flattered at the attention to more viburnums - but not at the expense of caustic criticism of wonderful winterberries. Not knowing more than what you've stated about the site under consideration (6' x 12', was it?), I'd venture you could fit both winterberries and possumhaw viburnums in there - and let them duke it out. You could do worse.
Gardening - as with life - is full of editing. The best and most is learned by trial, error, success, and repetition.
I have been looking at winterberries would just love something with those big red berries. I have read that they grow to 8ft and I really want something no taller than 4ft. I want to plant 3 of them along the front fence inbetween the roses. Since I am only planting 3 I would like all of them to be berry laden so I wonder how far away I would have to plant the male.
Wow coleup, you met a rockstar!
Muddy, as to the birds wiping them out too fast- when my blueberries first started bearing a small crop, the birds would do that. But last few years there seems to be plenty for the birds and us. I quit using the net. Maybe as the plant gets bigger this won't be such an issue.
Holly Ann, there are a a number of dwarf winterberry.
I have " Sprite" (cultivar) for the females (small, slow growing, 3'-4') and "Jim Dandy" 8' (mine is under 6' because it is hidden in a shadier corner) for the male. Sparkleberry I believe is a hybrid, so I would not purchase that one.
I have them interspersed with the native evergreen shrub inkberry "Compacta," "Pretty Girl", and "Pretty Boy"
The Pretty cultivars have smaller leaves and stature. The females also have very small dark blue berries.
This way I have red berries and small evergreen leaves. Even when the winterberries lose their berries when placed with the inkberries the lovely smooth grey branches look attractive because they are off set by the evergreens nearby.
I like a looser more natural look so I don't prune the inkberry unless they are winter damaged by snow shovelers but they can be pruned like boxwood if you like a more manicured formal look.
In a wet area I have them placed near the red twigged dogwood for the beautiful red branches that complement the red berries of wintergreen.
Thanks for the info.
Holly, I have a few Red Sprite winterberries and like the last poster said, they are a dwarf variety. They berry pretty heavy and most times the berries persist into the spring. Too bad there's not a dwarf male out there unless our HSA guru knows of one.
Sequoia, I found this when I did a search on the Red Sprite. " Jim Dandy (Ilex verticillata "Jim Dandy") is an early-flowering male dwarf winterberry often used to pollinate Red Sprite. "
I haven't looked up Jim Dandy yet to see what it says about it.
Here it is http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=k650
Apparently some varieties of male bloom at different times so not only do you need a male but you need the right variety of male that will bloom at the same time as your female.
Sempervirens, I like a more natural look but still love a formal garden so my gardens are a bit of a mix between the two. I love hedges and topiary. I have a huge Juniper hedge that doesn't get much in clipping only when Ric says it it eating the the yard or I can't get into the car because of the branches covering the parking area. A good size row of Leland Cypress to hide the neighbors back along the pasture. Then there is the clipped Yew walk thru, L shaped Holly hedge, variegated Boxwood hedge between the Secret Garden and the Veggie Garden and the small Nandina Hedge along the back fence of Alfie's yard.
I know that I could have put in a much nicer multi-layered buffer between us and the neighbors.I probably would have if I actually owned the property. When I talked to the owner he was fine with us planting a row of trees along his property line. The Leland fit the bill. They grew fast and filled in, take practically no care other than a twice yearly cleanout behind them to keep the neighbors vines from consuming them.
Here is a pic of the L shaped Holly hedge and the finally starting to fill in variegated Boxwood hedge, have to get into the other computer for pics of my other hedges.
Jim Dandy gets pretty big: http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/80055/
I don't care that it gets big but I didn't realize that Red Sprite was a dwarf when I bought our first one and I planted the Sprite directly in front of the Dandy. As a result, the Dandy is about a foot taller so far than the Sprite. Oh well...
VV, I have wanted Viburnum nudum 'Winterthur' and 'Brandywine' for a while, and I'd like to get 3-5' tall ones (B&B, potted, bareroot). ...any combination of those for a group of 3.
Holly, if deer are a problem in your area, I strongly encourage you to begin by buying just one Winterberry and see how the deer treat it before investing in more. They are deer candy in my neighborhood; deer found them and started eating the leaves and branches within 2 days.
We have deer in our area, In fact there were two in the yard late this afternoon grazing under the bird feeders. A large doe with her yearling. But they barely ever bother the plants. Last winter they ate Ric's new bush to the ground but it came back this spring. Other than that we rarely ever have any deer damage. They usually keep to the edge of the pasture or walking down the drive and picking out a few choice tidbits from the hedgerow. They don't usually come into the yard this early in the winter but I think the hunters may have driven them out of the woods. I don't really like feeding them but once they start cleaning out my bird feeders I usually put up a corn feeder later in the winter and then in the spring they melt back into the woods.
Lucky you! Deer are frequent visitors in our neighborhood. A friend took this photo of a deer eating her plants.
Oh that deer is certainly having a mouthful!
Yeah really, that's what I was thinking!
Yeah...I think those were petunias. She looks terrified of my friend, doesn't she? LOL
LOL What a mouthful, must be hard living where the deer eat everything. I don't know why they leave our yard alone but I know I am lucky that they do.
This deer looks kind of skinny, but note that there is plenty of yew - a traditional deer favorite - that she could eat. Our deer are pretty spoiled. I used to wonder why deer ate my azaleas, rhodo buds, black-eyed Susans, etc. and left the neighbors' plants alone. It all became clear when I learned that deer prefer plants that are well-watered and well-fertilized...and my neighbors never water or fertilize.
Muddy, isn't your county one of the most highly overpopulated deer wise in the country? Overpopulation is as hard on the deer as the landscape. Just heard a news report that Rock Creek Park will have a series of closings of unnanounced areas to allow for the Park Service to enlist 'sharpshooters' to decrease the current deer population of 77 per square mile to 22, starting this week. That's a lot of pressure on any plants/trees, and unsustainable. Hope there are 'sharp planters' to restore the forest and other park ecosystems...to eventually achieve some balance...
On another note, I was finally able to take a picture of the Maryland Beauty Winterberries I pass everyday on my route. Note that these have been trimmed to tree form. There are six in this grouping with the male Jim Dandy planted about 40 feet away.-
VV, do you have any comments on the 'tree form' method of growing?
Sempervirens, I'd love to see some pics of your Winterberry and Inkberry area. Did you know that Inkberries are popular with bees because they contain an enzyme that keeps honey from crystalizing?
Coleup, good question! I think the landscaper at Wolf Trap, which is .6 mile away, said there are 70 deer per square mile there. The only map I found says Fairfax County has 45+ per square mile.
The deer might prune my winterberries into tree form for me.
Any comments?
I'd only ask "Why, oh why?"
Or is that actually the result of deer predation...
fabulous bee fact
It looks as if those winterberries might have been pruned by, or because of, deer damage. I see several trunk stubs. That's the type of pruning job they did on my winterberry. A deer also broke a sumac that I thought was in a protected place in the forest. It was a beautiful 6' shrub and is now a 2' stub.
This message was edited Dec 5, 2014 10:06 PM
Not deer predation. Winterberries trimmed up by homeowner. Not advocating making a beautiful bush into a tree, just wondering whether some Winterberries are more tree like than others. If these people move could the next occupants let those six become full blown bushes again? They did say I could take some cuttings ...
I'm glad they're reducing the Rock Creek Herd, and down to a reasonable number. That number will probably double by spring, by hungry deer moving in from neighboring areas...
I think each county needs a sharpshooter team, working year round, and I think the meat should be sold to the restaurant trade to pay for the team (would probably generate a good profit, too).
In PA, I remember once they tried to use sharpshooters and use the meat in prison cafeterias -- that was shot down in court, deemed "cruel & unusual" despite the fact that there must be a choice of meat at every meal, yes breakfast also. ??
When deer are "pruning" viburnum etc. like that, there are definitely too many deer! A friend of ours who lives just north of Rockville has small hollies and junipers in front of his house -- prickly ones! -- and he never prunes them; the deer do.
There are or were some rather odd requirements if you want to give the meat to shelters , if I remember right. That might have been changed but at one time you couldn't give fresh or frozen meat, it had to be canned. Really who wants canned meat. I think the meat had to be done at a butcher shop, couldn't be processed at home. The sharp shooters were for the Federal parks, like Valley Forge, Gettysburg and such.
I believe most of the venison goes to food pantries in Fairfax County. That's a great solution IMO - if people don't want it, they don't have to take it!
I read about deer culling in Fairfax County and was surprised at how few deer they kill each year. It's really a drop in the bucket. I do see far more does than bucks, though, so if they keep taking out the bucks the herd sizes might drop.....although I read somewhere that bucks from other places smell the fertile does and move in to take over the territory.
hm, don't they have to reduce number of does, isn't that a more direct way to reduce birth rate? I THINK I remember my basic biology...
Good point: A+ in Biology for you!
Sequoia, sorry for hijacking your thread : - )
Hijack away..
I don't agree with hunting in general. I understand it we need to keep the population in check but there had to be a natural predator somewhere in the past but humans probably killed it to extinction in this area. What I really dislike is hunting for 'sport'. I think that is atrocious. Taking something's life for fun is terrible.
I also think it's ridiculous that we wouldn't be able to give the meat to the prisons. They're prisoners, it's not like they're getting forced to eat human meat or something. Unreal.
I agree, there's a big difference between hunting for food and/or for controlling populations and hunting for "sport." The only defense of sport hunting IMO is that those who do it are interested in preserving habitat and managing deer herds to improve their "sporting experience" -- they push to make those things happen. If the rest of us pushed harder, we wouldn't need the input from the sport hunters.
Playing devil's advocate again... is somebody hunting for "sport" if they enjoy being out in the woods and take pride in getting their deer or in taking down a trophy-sized buck? Is that different than being proud of growing a prize winning pumpkin (you wouldn't eat that!)?
We do have a responsibility to fill the predator niche, IMO. It's certainly not logistically possible to re-introduce wolf packs to suburban or even most rural areas... coyotes, maybe, but you start losing pet cats then, and they won't usually take down deer)