pea gravel vs ground cover in shady enclosed patio area

I have a patio enclosed by high vinyl fencing on the north side of our house. The ground is mostly concrete, but there is earth near the fence - 9' x 3' 8" on the north side and 10' x 1'2" on the east side (the south and west sides are bordered by our house). I used to have raised beds back there, but they were starting to rot after 10 yrs, were attracting black widow spiders, and nothing much grew back there anyway since there's not much sun, so I removed the planters.

I had thought about putting down weed cloth, then pea gravel, and edging with pavers under the fence to contain the gravel. I went so far as to purchase the pea gravel and the weed cloth and some of the pavers. Now I am having second thoughts. I don't like the idea of using plastic weed cloth since it is made of plastic and plastic is bad for the environment. I also know that by itself it will not prevent all weed growth. However I don't want the pea gravel migrating down into the soil.

Add to that we have an HOA which contracts out most of our landscaping to a company that mows the grass and sprays who-knows-what nasty chemicals. They are planning to change our lawns from fescue to bermuda, which I think will creep in no matter what type of edging I use. I could try spraying RoundUp regularly, which bothers me, but we don't have any toads or lizards left anymore, so what difference would it make.

So I thought perhaps instead I should plant a ground cover instead, maybe liriope? How would liriope do next to bermuda grass? Which one would invade the other?

Planting something is a good idea, and reseaching what plants will grow in your zone, in the shade is exactly right.

Bermuda Grass does not grow so well in the shade, but it will grow.
Here is what I would do:

Trench under the fence and install the weed mat vertically, at least a foot deep. Putting a board in the trench might hold the weed mat in place better when you backfil. I would use 6 mil plastic, though, not weed mat for this.
Hopefully the Bermuda Grass will only be able to grow over the top, and you will see it and hand pull it before it roots on your side.

Next, go to the outside of the fence and install the pea gravel there, with some header board. Put the header board 6-12" from the fence. The header would be some 2 x 4 that the gardeners can edge next to, and run their lawn mower wheels over. It would also give them a target to spray (the pea gravel) so they can keep the area neat. The bermuda grass will try to grow through the pea gravel (under the 2 x 4) but will probably come up through it not stay under long enough to hit the plastic under the fence. Even if it does hit the plastic barrier it would then grow upward, and be seen.

I am trying hard to not say anything snarky about your HOA. I would, however, like to give you something to consider regarding your possible use of RoundUp. The difference that it will make is that it will eventually end up in the water supply, be it drinking water, rivers, streams, lakes, etc.

I agree with Diana_K about researching and using native plants that would work for your area. Also agree that Bermuda does not like shade but it does like to creep.

And I agree with you that plastic is bad for the environment. Having my own path of what once was pea gravel (since added rock that is a size up from that), just want to warn you that pea gravel can be slippery when wet. This came as quite a surprise to me but there it is.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

Thanks to you both for your feedback.

Our HOA & landscaping company are awful. I guess the landscapers would do what the HOA asks so it is the HOAs fault, but perhaps the landscapers give them bad information. I don't get involved since I know the HOA representation is comprised of difficult people. I remember a big controversy when one neighbor painted their door yellow (it looked really nice) and another dust-up referred to as 'garbage gate' by some neighbors. As for pea gravel outside the fence, I know that is not allowed. An edict was issued some years ago about not using pea gravel / marble chips in visible landscaping.

I think my husband is annoyed with me for going back on these plans. I think he thinks it would be low maintenance (which is why he moved to this neighborhood in the first place - he doesn't like gardening/yard work). I moved in with him, and I'm not fitting in here at all, but I don't see us moving unless we win the lottery. At least we did not lose value in the housing bubble.

I did not think my original plans would be low maintenance, just not high maintenance. I wanted a clean look since it is a small space and I wanted to discourage the black widows. Black widows have their place in nature, but I have a cat and a child who would be seriously affected due to their small sizes if bitten by one of these large (I mean these girls were huge!) female black widows. I would have thought they would be a bit more territorial and not have so many sharing space, but when I had the planters there were at least five big ones out there. They liked to put their egg sacs between the cedar wood and plastic liner (plastic again! at least I was able to get almost all of it in the trash).

I keep wondering if liriope spicata would be able to hold back the bermuda grass. If it escapes outside the fence, I'm not sure I care. I would still use the pavers as edgeing.

Thanks Diana_K for the great drawing; it was very helpful.

Hi tx_flower_child - I just meant about the RoundUp that since it seems they already use a bunch of herbicides and pesticides, the amount I would be adding would be insignificant in comparison. But it would be better not to use it (which is why I currently handpull in the mulched areas around the house the landscapers would otherwise be responsible for).

a-lemonhead: Sorry, I knew what you were saying. I didn't mean to chastise you. I was just saying that every little action helps. And I had just listened to a talk radio program on our local public radio about what we inadvertently due to our water supply.

In the meantime, I happened to come across this link and thought I'd share it with you.
http://m.hometalk.com/#!/b/840999/garden-paths

BTW, yes, I do have occasional unwanted plants aka weeds trying to pop up in between the gravel. But they are very easy to see and and remove when little. A bigger problem (but manageable if I keep my eyes open) for me is that my gravel path is adjacent to a very very large Red Oak tree. Something must be healthy b/c the acorns try their darndest to sprout between gravel. (and everywhere else) If you lived in my neck of the woods I could provide you with a good start of a Red Oak tree. :D

Back to the pea gravel. I have placed those round pavers that look like pea gravel (sorry, don't know their name) along my path to keep it less slippery. Initially I just kinda plopped them down, but over the years they've become very embedded.

I don't understand why you don't have this area put back to lawn, especially if there's plans to re-do lawns anyway?

Gravel fills with weeds as easily as bare earth, especially, as mentioned, hard-to-pull tree sprouts. The gravel fills with leaves in the fall (if near a deciduous tree,) or pine needles, which must be removed, if you want to see the gravel. If left there, the incidents of sprouts will increase since these organic materials will hold moisture in the area, and decompose into smaller bits (dirt.) Unless I lived in the desert, I wouldn't consider it.

purpleinopp: Your point is taken re pea gravel. But why lawn? Unless using native grasses that do not require much water or maintenance, lawns are are an outdated concept perpetuated by big agribusiness. This is not just my own opinion but take it fpor what it's worth.

The area is in an enclosed patio and we are responsible for maintaining it. I don't want to buy a mower or even a trimmer for a ~50 ft sq space ( know liriope needs cutting back once a year, but I can see doing that with shears).The grass surrounds the outside of the fence.
There are no trees and the vinyl fencing is solid with a bit of a gap at the bottom, so there isn't much air circulation.

I agree with you, flower_child, on the lawn thing. They say grass lawns are good for soaking up runoff, but other types of vegetation that don't require a lot of fertilizers of pesticides can do the job just as well.

So I'm still wondering:
bermuda vs. liriope - which one would win?
or how about
vinca minor vs. bermuda grass?

I know these aren't natives, but they easy to grow and are supposed to tolerate shade.

FWIW - as far as plant vs. plant 'warfare' goes, I had a mint problem in my planters for a few years. I was constantly pulling it out, only to have it come back again. Then I planted parsley and viola - no more mint trouble.

oops - not 'viola' (but I like the genus) - 'voilà'

I do not know which would win out.

Bermuda is horribly invasive, but not quite as tolerant of shade, so it would be a bit weaker in the shade. I would still do all I could to make a barrier that it has to go up and over so that you can see it coming and go outside the fence and hand pull if you do not want to use weed killers. Make a 'no mans' land' barrier, and anything in that zone gets pulled out. Even if it is the HOA's carefully chosen lawn. Do not allow it next to the fence, even if you have to go out there when no body is looking and spray or whatever it takes.

I think Vinca minor is a bit more aggressive than Liriope, but I have seen it looking pretty wimpy in the shade.

Then I will seriously consider Liriope :)

OK, I see what you mean. I agree, Liriope. It looks like grass, not hurt by mowing, and does grow thickly enough to stop the grass at the fence, with some occasional patrolling on your part, little grape-hyacinth flowers. Pavers or landscape timbers sitting on the surface are enough of a barrier to maintain a border to stop grass here in our yard, it's some kind of creeping grass that grows in long vines, there are several kinds, including the one they call wiregrass. Weed-trimmer against the pavers keeps the grass from reaching its' goal of reaching outside the border.

Vinca would be much more difficult to maintain, definitely creeping out into the yard by crawling under it for a foot or so, then popping up with noticeably different leaves that may below the mower blades. Not to mention the fact that it's a horrible weed, an exotic invasive.

TX-flower-child, you are preachin' to the choir, my friend! We wouldn't have any lawn if we didn't have a dog and neither of us would ever mow again if not necessary. I hadn't read the question clearly enough anyway, that notion is not appropriate in this situation. I can't recall another time I suggested to anyone they convert any area to lawn.

My apologies.

Not at all necessary, I totally agree, and appreciated your comment very much! I felt weird suggesting grass and, sure enough, it wasn't the right thing.

a_lemonhead - Whatever you do, do NOT plant Purple Wintercreeper as a ground cover. It is sooo invasive and I will never again speak to the landscaper who did't warn me about it. (But that's another story.) I think Lirope would be a good choice but I kinda think it's a slow grower (or it is here anyway). If so, buy multiple 4" plants to get it off to a good start. I don't know if you really need to build a barrier to ward off the Bermuda grass. And I still like the pea gravel plan, especially since you've already invested $$ in it. Whatever you do, you'll just have to keep your eyes open. All gardening requires some maintenance. (And just be sure that whatever you do is not going to be a violation in the eyes of your HOA.)

Just had another thought. Don't know if these would be of interest to you but here goes. Take a look at Autumn ferns. They are evergreen, like shade, new growth is a coppery color that later turns green, can take abuse (if I grow 'em, they can take abuse). Despite the fact that it's a fern, it doesn't require lot of moisture. See http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1812/
Another evergreen fern is Japanese Holly Fern. They can grow quite large. And despite what DG says, most sites have it growing in colder climates than 8a. See http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/1649

I'm in Zone 8a and we have mostly heat and drought altho this past year we had an unusual amount of snow. Both ferns just kept going. And they are planted next to my gravel path. Anyway, just a thought.

Keep us posted.



This message was edited Jun 9, 2014 3:14 PM

Build the best barrier you can to keep out the Bermuda Grass.
You are trying to force it to grow over the barrier so you can see it coming and head it off before it touches your soil.