Rooting Dracaeana marginata

I offered to help with my mother in law's plant a week ago. She said it wasn't looking so good but I thought that it was looking very good. She lost 2 others that were in the same pot during this passed summer. When I brought the plant home, I found that the plant had issues and one of the other plants that supposedly died was still there, but it was just roots and about and inch and a half of blackened stalk. The roots on both looked great. I thought to see if I could revive it but forgot to retrieve it when I dumped the soil. I did this because I was going to repot. They were in a large non draining ceramic glazed pot with rocks on the bottom. The one that was still alive turned out to be yellowing from the middle and the very center leaves were dead. I did some research and attributed the yellowing to lack of sufficient light. I repotted in a soilless well draining mix without perlite and placed it near an east window. It started to droop after a couple of days and I unburied the roots a little just now and found that they were turning a light brown color and getting thin. The plant is quite young and only about 5" tall. Can I re-root it and save it or is it a gonner? The plant has drooped considerably and though the leaves are hanging on it doesn't take much force to remove them. I removed a leaf to see if it was going to recover from this shock. MIL said that the leaves used to come off with a touch. I explained that the leaves do drop and they are not bush plants. The stalk does not feel soft at all either. Will it recover? Our house is about 5 degrees cooler than MIL's.

That looks like a ponytail palm, which is not a palm, of course, but it's not Dracaena either! As you said, you have two different plants there.

Ponytail palm doesn't have red edges on the leaves. That looks like D. marginata to me. Was it being given tap water in the pot with no drain hole? I only see one plant in the blue pot in front of the pic, that's the one I'm talking about. None of the other plants I see resemble Dracaena or Beaucarnea.

Perlite is good, generally. Is it in vermiculite?

Maybe I thinking of something different. Better listen to purpleinopp.

Yes, it is just one plant in the blue pot and that is the one is question, obviously. It was being watered with tap water. I read that perlite is bad for this plant because it holds in water and everything else in the water including flouride, which we have in our water. Is it true that they don't like flouridated water? Yes, there is vermiculite in the mix.

This message was edited Dec 10, 2013 6:30 PM

Yes, tap water is awful for plants. The PH is usually way too high, there's some form of chlorine, and Dracaenas in particular are 'allergic' to fluoride. This plant looks yellowish, chlorotic from a build-up of tap water chemicals (and wrong PH) to a toxic level.
http://extension.psu.edu/pests/plant-diseases/all-fact-sheets/dracaena-diseases

Good sources of 'plain' water are catching rain water, melting snow, condensate from dehumidifier or A/C, distilled. Bottled drinking water may or may not just be tap water from somewhere. Spring water has minerals that plants may or may not appreciate. I wouldn't use either of these unnecessarily expensive sources. Fluoride doesn't evaporate, so letting water sit won't yield 'plain' water.

When there is a drain hole, and one waters so water can freely exit that hole (and not sit in a drip saucer,) theoretically, the level of toxins is only as high as what was in the last dose of tap water. For many plants, that's fine. Dracs are more sensitive to it.

Picking up a thirsty plant for a trip to the sink also lets you feel if it really is more lightweight. If not, it's probably not dry yet. Not absolute necessary every time a plant needs some water (especially if it's not tap) but the only way I can do it w/o having water sit in a drip saucer. I too suffer from the delusion that plants always need more water. They don't & this syndrome is very common.

Whatever source you were reading about perlite, that's exactly the opposite of the truth. Perlite provides important tiny air pockets in a potting soil. Roots must have access to oxygen as well as moisture, so a potting soil of all tiny particles that lodge perfectly against each other with no air pockets can be deadly. This is where myths about overwatering (which is really underdrying) and "likes to be rootbound" come from.

Vermiculite shouldn't be in a potting mix at all. It holds the most moisture of all, and its' structure completely collapses. When potting plants, don't pack the soil tightly, and try to find a more chunky, porous, airy mix with no tiny particles in it, that doesn't suffocate roots (or hold so much water that it can be "overwatered.")

Bad stuff to put in pots: vermiculite, sand, compacted bricks of peat, yard dirt.

The sticky at the top of this forum has excellent info for keeping potted plants looking their best.

Curiosity is overwhelming me - what is the Sans planted in? Is the colorful stuff in the other pots rocks? Some cute little cacti/succulents there!

Yea, well, I think the Dracaeana is done for, it is hard to tell. I am going to give it my best shot after I examine the roots again. Everyone says that they are easy to grow as a houseplant, but from my very limited experience and by what you just said, I think they are finicky and touchy. Thanks for setting me straight. I knew that you can't remove fluoride. It irks me that it is being added to the water even though most of us voted not to have it added. Grrrrr.
Let me see which sans you are talking about.... I believe it is cactus soil with perlite on top to keep the fungus gnats off. (Ground up packing peanuts. Ha ha ha. Just teasing) I think that is the one you are referring.
Yes, those are rocks. Thanks. DH seems to love his cacti gardening. I do not like cactus much but I like the ones like that Cereus in with the orange rocks.

MIL's plant didn't make it. I wouldn't have been able to save it. In case anyone else wants to try to root a cane cutting of Dracaeana, here is the site that got me started thinking about it.
http://plantgasm.com/archives/4613

Now, a little more detail:
http://www.gardenersworld.com/how-to/projects/basics/how-to-take-stem-cuttings-from-dracaena/162.html

This message was edited Dec 12, 2013 4:08 AM

I've started many new Dracaenas via cuttings. I wouldn't put them (or any woody entity) in water to make roots. I promise you from trying both ways, water takes a lot longer for this particular plant. It's so much easier to cut part off, stick it in the pot next to the mama. Nothing extra to tend & it's there, waiting for you, whenever you're ready to separate the two plants when you would normally repot the mama, or to start a 'shrubby' look in the pot instead of the naked tree with a puff of foliage at the top. Not knocking either look, I have some of both, just highlighting the fact that 'bushy' is almost impossible with a single entity, unless you use a cutting or buy a plant with several tops already. Turning 1 top into 2 doesn't constitute bushiness. But a pot with 6 tops at various heights looks like 'a bushy plant' no matter how many individuals are used.

The info above about roots is general to about any plant in a pot. Although there are plants that can survive just fine in the presence of fluoride, the PH of tap water is often much too high, so tap water is generally not good for potted plants.

I definitely didn't mean to give the impression that D. marginata is a fussy plant, I don't think that at all. Since I stopped putting tap water on plants (generally, I don't always have rain or other water,) I've noticed a huge improvement in many plants I thought were fine before. However, for 15 or so years, before finding the great info about roots, water, etc... the tree my gramma gave me was OK. (Big one pictured below, which has donated the cuttings.) I think much more important that not using tap water is just not letting water sit in a drip saucer, letting the pot dry well between waterings. And plenty of light, which that window looks like it can provide.

If styro bits thwart fungus gnats, more power to 'em, and to you for re-using the material for something else! I think you were just making a joke and know this already, but real Perlite is something totally different, and not interchangeable as far as being a component of decent potting soil. Since styrofoam could create a barrier that prevents evaporation, I might be concerned from that POV about using it as a top dressing for a succulent like a Sans, if the layer is thick enough.

The mini-garden thing your DH has going on is really cute! I don't like prickly plants either, but have relatively recently discovered there are thousands of pretty little succulents that have no pricklies at all. Most of them turn pretty colors with some direct sun too, purple, pink, red, blue-ish.

I hope you can pass this info on to MIL, the sticky too. It sounds like her plant is in peril!
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1226030/

These plants started as cuttings. Here they are with soil removed, about a year after being cut & stuck in a pot.


This message was edited Dec 13, 2013 5:53 PM

Well, it wasn't just what you said, but from my limited experience and from what I have read also. There are just many houseplants that I am not good with and I am sure a lot of it has to do with the indoor temps. Possibly.
That is the best window in the house. Even the cats compete for it. lol
Yes, I was just making a joke. I know that you can't get styrofoam wet and would be bad for a soil additive.
What a cool cactus garden you have! Are those Dracaeana's in a kiddie pool? (ha ha ha) How fun if they are!

Glad you like the mini garden, thank you. :+) I thought it might inspire you to appreciate DH's cacti/succulent type plants better. They can turn pretty colors and make cute little flowers.

The baby pool is where I repot plants. I added that pic to show what a healthy D. marginata root system looks like with the soil removed. Healthy roots are a light color but do have a brownish/orangish cast.

We have some temp swings in this house too, down to about 55 on really cold mornings, then they experience up to 100 degrees while outside for summer. As long as roots aren't sitting in soggy muck, it's fine. Since I learned how to NOT rot roots, I've gotten many of the plants I killed in the past and they are now doing great. There are a few that just can't take the heat of AL so I'll continue to avoid those, but they are few.

When temps are much cooler, plants can use water at a MUCH slower rate. Some plants I needed to water every other day outside only need a drink every 2-3 weeks while inside for winter. Picking up plants (small enough to do so) to see how heavy they are could help you a lot, that's what I do. If it still feels heavy, it's still got a lot of moisture in the pot. When it feels significantly lighter, you can know most of the moisture is gone.

Purple,

My 22 year old son and I just LOVE your cactus garden! But we were wondering where you put it during winter, type of lighting, and temperature. It's beautiful and he wants to try creating something on a smaller scale than what you have. Also, what type of soil are they in?

Weedsfree, regarding the Dracaena Marginata, I bought one in the summer of 2012. It was only about a foot tall. That summer I kept it outside in an area with morning sun only and dappled shade the rest of the day. In October, I brought it inside and put it in a sunny window. Then in the spring of 2013, I put it back outside, and shortly realized, it no longer liked any direct sunlight, or it would wilt like it was dying even if its soil was moist. So, I ended up setting it under an oak tree where it got bright filtered sunlight. It grew almost 3 feet high since I bought it. I think what happened with your mom's plant is that the pot it was in had no drainage and therefore its roots were in extremely wet soil, and eventually got root rot. During the summer, I water my Dracaena daily, but when I bring it inside for winter, I only water it about once every 2 weeks. I always test the soil with a finger to see if it needs water. If the top inch or two feel dry, then I stick a finger in the drain hole and see if the soil at the bottom is still wet or not. If it is, then I wait a little longer before I water.

I just collect rain water that runs off the roof into a kid's sand pail, and then I pour it into an old milk jug, and use it to water my Dracaena and Spider Plants since they both dislike Fluoride. As for potting mix, I use Fafard or Baccto potting soil and actually mix in some Black Gold Cactus & Succulent potting mix which helps with drainage. In summer, I fertilize once a month with Jack's Classic All Purpose water soluble plant food. In winter, I fertilize twice (December and February) with Fish Emulsion.

They really aren't tough plants.

Here are some pics of my Dracaena Marginata. The first pic is what it looked like at the end of the summer in 2012 after I bought it in July. The 2nd picture is what it looks like now after this summer.

Dracaena marginata is one of the most commonly used plants for commercial interior landscaping. The reason is that it stays beautiful a long time (several years at least) IF it's not left in damp soil for longer than a few days. From years of experience in NYC and Fla, and hundreds of these plants, I have found that they adapt successfully to a wide variety of conditions, medium low to high light, temps down to 40 F, high to low humidity, and tap water. (There might be some areas of the country where the water is bad, but they are truly few and far between.)
All dracaenas are sensitive to fluoride and chlorine in water, but this is generally controlled by limited fertilization (once or twice a year). Leaching occasionally is also recommended. Commercial plants are rarely repotted, but I would recommend repotting every other year for home marginatas.
Commercial plants are watered usually every other week, and left with runoff in the liner/saucer of 1/4 - 1/2". This does not harm the plant. The crucial step is to always check the moisture in the bottom of the pot (using a bamboo skewer or probe of some kind is the most effective way) before each watering, and to not water until the soil is almost dry.
For sure, the problem with your MIL's plant was rotted roots caused by soil that wasn't allowed to dry sufficiently down to the bottom of the pot. When rot starts in the roots of a marginata, unless the condition is corrected at the first sign (the first sign is brown tips on the leaves,) it quickly moves into the stem and leaf tissue -- that's when the leaves start to fall off at a touch, and the stem softens and gets wrinkly. Even if you cut these stems to attempt rooting, they usually die because the rot is in the tissues.

Thanks ficus. I realized after I uprooted it and tossed it, that it must have had something going on for sure before I realized something was wrong. When I inspected it when I brought it home to see what was wrong, I noticed the roots were knobby. I am not sure if this is normal but it didn't look normal though I didn't pay attention to it. I think it was dead within a week. Soft stem and all.
IF I attempt to grow this again, I will be very careful though I can't see me having the desire. Thanks all for your good advice and knowledge.

Tap water is really confusing because it's not the same everywhere, a mystery, and the often high PH of it probably doesn't get enough credit for causing chlorosis, I really don't know all of the science, just read enough to decide that always using tap water is not the best thing I could do, if I have any options. When/where plants go outside for summer (and get rained on,) I think it's much less of an issue and agree, D. marginata is less sensitive than some of the other Dracs. My oldest tree has always had tap water when it was inside, whenever I used the hose to water potted plants while outside, and for a solid year when I lived in an apartment in 2006. I always thought it looked fine, but now think it looks great. Just different degrees of 'good.' A corn plant OTOH, can look really crappy from always getting tap water. I just find it easier to give the same care to all plants, and this area *usually* gets enough rain that I have that luxury, to use it almost exclusively while plants are outside, so I do. I've not always had that option either.

Below are pics of the same tree, first pic is from Oct 2002 in Ohio. The 2nd pic is has the same tree here in AL in the middle of the pic, the bottom of it anyway (and a weird albino 2nd trunk it grew a couple years ago.) It's been pruned time and again so it stays short enough to fit in the house and blew off the porch a few years ago, snapping the main trunk shorter than I would prune. The broken tops are now trees in other pots, and both of the current tops are new since then. Like FW said, these will put up with about anything (except rotting roots.) No matter how great it looks, it will discard the oldest leaf occasionally. But when a multitude of tips turn yellow/brown, it's time to change something. I'm still gun-shy about fertilizer after killing many plants with too much back in the day, and don't do it much at all, but I can say that that Dracs love water with a little pureéd banana peel in it. I give this to all potted plants while they're outside.

Savvy, so sorry I didn't notice your questions above. So glad you and your son like the mini, TY! The planter box is something DH made for me, then I painted it, and covered everything inside/out with urethane to hope it will take much longer to rot, being made of wood. Inside, there's about 100 drill-bit holes on the bottom surface, covered with screen, then landscape fabric to keep grit/roots from clogging them as long as possible. Then I cut the bottoms off of about a half-dozen nursery flats, leaving about 1/2" of the side surface. I pieced those together, laying on the bottom upside-down to make a gap that I hope is keeping the wood more dry. The 'dirt' is home-made, with some rough compost, pine shavings and needles, small bark, I just kept adding stuff until it looked as chunky as possible for such a thin layer. The aquarium gravel was added once the plants were in place, just thick enough to cover the soil.

When I put it together, I thought it would be coming inside for winter, but that was a ridiculous notion. It's way too big, heavy, messy, so it's never moved since it was put on the front porch. Porch faces south, it's at the west end, so under the roof to avoid rain, but gets direct sun all afternoon. Luckily, most of the plants happen to be very hardy since this winter has been so harsh, temps in the teens. Most plants are still alive. I've been covering it with a sheet on frost-or-colder nights, but not sure that's necessary. The humidity here makes amazingly thick dew/frost, probably very unlike the dry climates of these plants' origins. Anyway, if you use something small enough to come inside, that wouldn't be an issue but since you're also in a warmer climate, it's probably possible to create a permanent outdoor display, as long as you can keep it from getting rained on. When I knew cold was coming, I stopped watering my mini since it's known they will rot if cold AND wet (and have never watered it much anyway, just when plants started to look a little puckered, slightly losing plump-ness.) If cold and dry, survival is likely. I've only added some dribbles of water about twice during warm spells, and only near some of the plants.

At this point, whatever's still alive is what will be in there permanently. I'll clean up the dead stuff and add more hardy plants soon. And try to find more 'scenery' that can handle being outside all of the time, something for the 'patio' in the middle finally.

If you search images of 'mini garden' you'll get too many pics to even look at! Searching 'fairy garden' has even more pics, but I happen to not like fairies. The 'scene' can be anything - like a junkyard using broken toys, a tiny formal hedge with paved patio, steps leading up the side of a broken pot. The only limitations are your imagination and the plants you can find. I've been using the plants I bought to make babies for more gardens (couple pics below.)

https://www.google.com/search?q=mini+garden&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=E8odU4_8FcX02QWC84GIDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1088&bih=473

The main things are plants with small foliage, that grow slowly and compactly. Creepers are often used, but I'm intimidated and haven't included any yet. The last pic are 2 'quilted' gardens I made for tha' Moms last year. Glued fabric squares on, then a few coats of urethane.